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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16398
Location: 375th st. Y
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 Posted: 12/04/03 - 20:08 Post subject: woohoo! the answer to my smoke problems!
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http://www.tribnet.com/news/story/4480841p-4459401c.html
I'm stoked about this.
| Quote: | Smoking ban gets the go-ahead
KENNETH P. VOGEL; The News Tribune
The Tacoma-Pierce County Board of Health unanimously approved a resolution Wednesday night that would make the county the first place in the state to ban smoking in most indoor public places.
The ban, which would affect restaurants, bars, bowling alleys, minicasinos and most other nontribal businesses, is scheduled to go into effect in 30 days. But the Washington Restaurant Association Wednesday reaffirmed its plans to sue, both to block the law from being implemented and to overturn it entirely.
Restaurant association government affairs director Stan Bowman told the seven board members, "You will lose the legal argument." His association will seek legal fees and damages for restaurants hurt by the ban, he said.
"That means the taxpayers will be the real losers, for it is their money that will finance your quixotic quest to override state law and the state constitution," Bowman added.
The health board has started paying a law firm to help handle the anticipated legal challenge and has set aside $100,000 for a legal defense that board chairman Kevin Phelps has estimated could cost between $200,000 to $300,000.
Several residents complained at the hearing about the potential cost of defending the ban.
But department director Federico Cruz, who's running for governor in 2004, said his department could get financial help for the impending court fight from the Washington BREATHE Alliance, a nonprofit organization.
"Most health departments aren't equipped to handle" the costs of such a dispute. "But we've handled it before," Cruz said, referring to controversial initiatives he has pushed to create needle exchange programs, mandatory AIDS testing for pregnant women and fluoridation of drinking water in suburban and rural Pierce County.
As he stood outside the hearing room Wednesday night munching on a piece of raw broccoli, Cruz predicted the board's ban could prompt action by other communities, as well as the Legislature.
"It's the communities that kick-start the federal government and the states to get off their butts," he said.
The state's Clean Indoor Air Act has been interpreted as prohibiting local government such as the health board from banning smoking, and Bowman asserted that's why other cities, counties and health departments have backed down from attempts to pass such bans.
Whether the board has the authority to pass such a ban is a "legitimate issue," board member Terry Lee said after hearing nearly four hours of testimony from health experts, middle school students, asthma sufferers, smokers and the owners of bars, restaurants and bowling alleys in the county.
But Lee, who also serves on the Pierce County Council, told the crowd, "This is not a courtroom, this is a board of health." That's why Lee, who said he has run dozens of marathons since quitting smoking, said he considered the public health arguments more important than legal ones.
There was plenty of public health evidence to go around Wednesday, as representatives from the state Health Department, Madigan Army Medical Center, the Franciscan Health Care System, the American Cancer Society, the American Lung Association, the American Heart Association and other groups inundated board members with statistics about the effects of secondhand smoke.
Secondhand smoke kills 268 people in Washington state each year, including 33 in Pierce County, according to the text of the resolution.
And state health officer Maxine Hayes said, "Breathing deadly air at work should not be a condition of employment."
The Tacoma-Pierce County Health Department estimates the ban will save more than $2 million in medical costs to the county's some 19,000 restaurant and bar workers and others in the first eight years after its implementation.
"It's far cheaper to prevent the problem than to dole out money to treat the problem," said board chairman Phelps.
But that's ignoring the economic impact on the county's restaurants, said Mike McCarthy.
He owns Dave's Restaurant and Lounge, which he said is just on the Pierce County side of the border with King County. If he is forced to eliminate his smoking section, McCarthy predicted he'd lose business to King County restaurants that could still offer it.
Board member Barbara Gelman, a member of the Pierce County Council, said for her, "the value of human life really outweighs the economic impact." |
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16398
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 12/05/03 - 19:14 Post subject:
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man i'm stoked.
we;re gonna be all cool like california.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 12/05/03 - 19:18 Post subject:
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People still smoke in bars here tho atarom :\
But the number of non-smoking bars far outweighs the number of bars you are able to smoke in, without fear of getting in trouble.
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ATM Banana
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 8575
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Posted: 12/05/03 - 19:47 Post subject:
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just blow some smoke in the officials face.
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Bait Masterson
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3842
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Posted: 12/05/03 - 21:06 Post subject:
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As long as king county doesnt follow suit.
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Mental_Hernia
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3336
Location: Texas
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Posted: 12/06/03 - 04:51 Post subject:
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| Bait Masterson wrote: | | As long as king county doesnt follow suit. |
Die of lung cancer, d**k!
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 12/06/03 - 19:33 Post subject:
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If you don't want to be around people that smoke at bars, DON'T GO TO THE f*****g BAR.
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Nemo
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 2202
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Posted: 12/06/03 - 19:36 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | | If you don't want to be around people that smoke at bars, DON'T GO TO THE f*****g BAR. |
why? why should we be subjected to someone elses addiction? Why cant they just go outside and smoke instead of inside? Why should my clothes smell of cigs and my drink and chicken wings taste of tobacco? I dont smoke why should I have to be stuck not going out and enjoying an evening because someone is addicted to a cancer stick?
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 12/06/03 - 19:50 Post subject:
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| Nemo wrote: |
why? why should we be subjected to someone elses addiction? Why cant they just go outside and smoke instead of inside? Why should my clothes smell of cigs and my drink and chicken wings taste of tobacco? I dont smoke why should I have to be stuck not going out and enjoying an evening because someone is addicted to a cancer stick?
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Because you can go someplace where people aren't smoking, instead of a place where people are.
I don't smoke cigarettes either, although I will bum some at a bar when I'm drinking.
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Spitulski
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 4344
Location: Washington
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Posted: 12/06/03 - 19:58 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | | Nemo wrote: |
why? why should we be subjected to someone elses addiction? Why cant they just go outside and smoke instead of inside? Why should my clothes smell of cigs and my drink and chicken wings taste of tobacco? I dont smoke why should I have to be stuck not going out and enjoying an evening because someone is addicted to a cancer stick?
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Because you can go someplace where people aren't smoking, instead of a place where people are.
I don't smoke cigarettes either, although I will bum some at a bar when I'm drinking. |
That's f*****g b******t. That's like telling black people they can't visit certain restaurants because they might get lynched. Makes more sense to tell the lynchers to go outside when they feel like killing someone.
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Nemo
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 2202
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Posted: 12/06/03 - 20:17 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | | Nemo wrote: |
why? why should we be subjected to someone elses addiction? Why cant they just go outside and smoke instead of inside? Why should my clothes smell of cigs and my drink and chicken wings taste of tobacco? I dont smoke why should I have to be stuck not going out and enjoying an evening because someone is addicted to a cancer stick?
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Because you can go someplace where people aren't smoking, instead of a place where people are.
I don't smoke cigarettes either, although I will bum some at a bar when I'm drinking. |
And people that smoke can go outside to ruin their lives.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 12/06/03 - 20:49 Post subject:
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Can you smoke at work? No.
Can you smoke at any shopping area? No.
The only places where smokers can smoke that is inside while they are out is a restaurant, bars in particular.
People who don't smoke can go to places where there is no smoking section (there are plenty of them).
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Nemo
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 2202
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Posted: 12/06/03 - 20:55 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | Can you smoke at work? No.
Can you smoke at any shopping area? No.
The only places where smokers can smoke that is inside while they are out is a restaurant, bars in particular.
People who don't smoke can go to places where there is no smoking section (there are plenty of them). |
Would be fine if smoke didnt move and oh fill the restaurant or bar with smoke, and it really sucks for those that wear contacts. Once again why should we have to not enjoy a bar or restaurant because of someones addiction. Let them go outside and smoke.
It seems that we will never agree on this so lets part this discuss as friends. We both have different views.
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Gethy
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5599
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Posted: 12/06/03 - 21:15 Post subject:
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| Mental_Hernia wrote: | | Bait Masterson wrote: | | As long as king county doesnt follow suit. |
Die of lung cancer, d**k!
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I'd laugh if you got hit by a drunk driver.
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Thenger
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 715
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 14:55 Post subject:
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Well this whole smoking issue...
I smoked for 7 years, around two packs of Marlboro's a day. And I just stopped smoking one day when I got home from work, when I thought about how much money I blew on the damn cigs.
It's been 13 months since I stopped smoking. Alot of folks who stopped smoking find smokers even more repulsive then they did before, but not me. You know if you go to a bar, smoke f**k it. People who don't like it can go to locations were their is "No Smoking".
In CT they tried the No Smoking in all resturants but they are in the middle of backing out of this new "law" since all the resturants are loosing money and they are scrambeling to find a loop hole in this. In the times that the US is having now with the ecomomy since 9-11, the last thing places of busness need is the lose of clients. Alot of places are finnaly starting to get back the buisness they once had and are now loosing it.
Just take a guess that around 1 out of 3 people smoke, with this new law that they are trying to pass that means they are loosing 1/3rd of the money. That is a huge hit. Non-Smoking will just say go there and dont' smoke. Sorry, but for a smoker it just dosn't work that way. Smokers have their own way of thinking about these things and so they should.
The real answer to this problem though is for resturants to REALLY make a smoking and non-smoking location. Like a glass wall that can seperate them both and/or better ventalation. Perhaps a new kind of ash-tray at all resturants where it's a vacuum where it can suck up the 2nd hand smoke from the cigs.
This is a cute new law and I am sorry to say the more we agree with these laws the more each person is loosing his or her freedom of choice, something in which the US has always stood for. Just think about these issues, if you do not like smoking, but you still want your freedom of rights, do some serious thinking.
Oh and some good indication of how the US can become is watch the Demolotion Man. Some of how the law system in the movie seem just so outlandish is how things will become in the US if we keep letting things get of hand. Yeah I know the movie was pretty dumb, but that's just one acpect of the movie that will make sence.
The US a country where everyone has a right, or a country which is loosing them faster then they can see. Think of it.
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Spitulski
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 4344
Location: Washington
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 14:58 Post subject:
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You don't have the right to threaten people's health at a public location, or to tell them to go elsewhere if they don't like it.
Edit: wasn't directing that at you personally Thenge =D
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 15:22 Post subject:
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| Spitulski wrote: | You don't have the right to threaten people's health at a public location, or to tell them to go elsewhere if they don't like it.
Edit: wasn't directing that at you personally Thenge =D |
Restaurants are privately owned.
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Spitulski
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 4344
Location: Washington
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 15:31 Post subject:
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| WheresNWS wrote: | | Spitulski wrote: | You don't have the right to threaten people's health at a public location, or to tell them to go elsewhere if they don't like it.
Edit: wasn't directing that at you personally Thenge =D |
Restaurants are privately owned. |
Err, whatever. f**k, I don't know. Legalize marijuana.
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Guest
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 15:40 Post subject:
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| Spitulski wrote: | | WheresNWS wrote: | | Spitulski wrote: | You don't have the right to threaten people's health at a public location, or to tell them to go elsewhere if they don't like it.
Edit: wasn't directing that at you personally Thenge =D |
Restaurants are privately owned. |
Err, whatever. f**k, I don't know. Legalize marijuana. |
You know kid, this defines you down to the molecular level.
| Spitulski wrote: |
Err
whatever.
f**k, I don't know
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The problem is 99% of the time you ignore these basic building blocks in your character. But I guess this is good for you in the end, it helps in the quest to be a wigger.
Aren't you lucky.
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Bait Masterson
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3842
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 16:15 Post subject:
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dont h8 the bait mental :/
Most smokers are aware of the fact thier habit sucks, most of them will go outside or put the cigarette out if its bothering someone.
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lotek
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1598
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 16:15 Post subject:
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government knows best!
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Spitulski
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 4344
Location: Washington
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 16:35 Post subject:
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| Kbarr wrote: | | Spitulski wrote: | | WheresNWS wrote: | | Spitulski wrote: | You don't have the right to threaten people's health at a public location, or to tell them to go elsewhere if they don't like it.
Edit: wasn't directing that at you personally Thenge =D |
Restaurants are privately owned. |
Err, whatever. f**k, I don't know. Legalize marijuana. |
You know kid, this defines you down to the molecular level.
| Spitulski wrote: |
Err
whatever.
f**k, I don't know
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The problem is 99% of the time you ignore these basic building blocks in your character. But I guess this is good for you in the end, it helps in the quest to be a wigger.
Aren't you lucky. |
Now you're just searching for material. Thanks to you, I can't even make a post in jest anymore.
f**k off, Kbarr. You need to realize that the same old shit you try and fling around day after day loses it's stink after a few uses. Maybe you're just holding on to some kind of hope that the older it gets, the better. Who knows?
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Nemo
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 2202
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 16:39 Post subject:
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| WheresNWS wrote: | | Spitulski wrote: | You don't have the right to threaten people's health at a public location, or to tell them to go elsewhere if they don't like it.
Edit: wasn't directing that at you personally Thenge =D |
Restaurants are privately owned. |
But open to the public. If they were not and you had to be a "member" then I would say yeah that them smoke...but you dont.
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 16:57 Post subject:
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| Nemo wrote: | | WheresNWS wrote: | | Spitulski wrote: | You don't have the right to threaten people's health at a public location, or to tell them to go elsewhere if they don't like it.
Edit: wasn't directing that at you personally Thenge =D |
Restaurants are privately owned. |
But open to the public. If they were not and you had to be a "member" then I would say yeah that them smoke...but you dont. |
But they reserve the right to refuse service. They could self-regulate whether they allow smoking or not. Non-smoking customers could also choose not to visit an establishment that allows smoking, if they chose.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 17:10 Post subject:
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Smoking ban in bars, pubs, clubs, casinos, etc. = b******t
Let these private establishments work it out for themselves. I don't even smoke and I feel this way.
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Guest
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 19:39 Post subject:
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| Spitulski wrote: | | Kbarr wrote: | | Spitulski wrote: | | WheresNWS wrote: | | Spitulski wrote: | You don't have the right to threaten people's health at a public location, or to tell them to go elsewhere if they don't like it.
Edit: wasn't directing that at you personally Thenge =D |
Restaurants are privately owned. |
Err, whatever. f**k, I don't know. Legalize marijuana. |
You know kid, this defines you down to the molecular level.
| Spitulski wrote: |
Err
whatever.
f**k, I don't know
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The problem is 99% of the time you ignore these basic building blocks in your character. But I guess this is good for you in the end, it helps in the quest to be a wigger.
Aren't you lucky. |
Now you're just searching for material. Thanks to you, I can't even make a post in jest anymore.
f**k off, Kbarr. You need to realize that the same old shit you try and fling around day after day loses it's stink after a few uses. Maybe you're just holding on to some kind of hope that the older it gets, the better. Who knows? |
The truth doesn't get better or worse with age.
"post in jest"...LOL, you little punk.
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Alerik
Sir Postalot
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1375
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 19:48 Post subject:
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If I have a right to smoke cigarettes, there should also be a right to not be exposed to them. I beleive all public buildings should have a strict No-Smoking policy... except for bars. People like to drink, and they like to have a smoke sometimes when they do, no harm in that.
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Krumble
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 771
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 19:55 Post subject:
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| Alerik wrote: | | If I have a right to smoke cigarettes, there should also be a right to not be exposed to them. I beleive all public buildings should have a strict No-Smoking policy... except for bars. People like to drink, and they like to have a smoke sometimes when they do, no harm in that. |
Last publicly owned bar/restaurant you've been to was...?
What about the right of small business owners, who depend on patronage from smokers and non-smokers alike, to decide whether or not smoking will be allowed in THEIR establishment?
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 20:55 Post subject:
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when asked , most the smokers i know would love if this happened here . The bar is the only thing that keeps them smoking in the first place . Take that out and they would be able to quit way way way easyer .
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 12/07/03 - 21:12 Post subject:
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| Thenger wrote: |
This is a cute new law and I am sorry to say the more we agree with these laws the more each person is loosing his or her freedom of choice, something in which the US has always stood for. Just think about these issues, if you do not like smoking, but you still want your freedom of rights, do some serious thinking.
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i love how people mix up freedom of choice or "your rights" with a public health issue. If your right to smoke did in no way effect anyone around you then i would understand prefectly where you were comming from but the fact is you are filling the room with a toxic cloud that can cause very serious public health risks. Not to mention burn your eyes and make you stink like shit. So if you have a choice to violate someones rights here who's should it be ? the person to is spilling out toxic smoke out into the air you are breathing or the person who is just there doing nothing ?
BTW saying " you have the choice to go to a bar " simply does not apply for very simple reasons that you all know very well . that just is not realistic in today's society. People should have the right to go somewhere and not have it filled with toxic smoke when they get in.
FYI . i smoke pack a day easy
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