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Okami
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2242
Location: The new board
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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 Posted: 08/20/03 - 13:39 Post subject:
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Kreugen rules!
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 08/20/03 - 14:28 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Some of you guys sound like g*****n rogues now. And that's the biggest insult I can think of. |
rorflez
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 08/20/03 - 15:53 Post subject:
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I love it when Furor and Kreugen fight.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 08/20/03 - 23:13 Post subject:
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I love it when warriors get jealous of rogues and monks, like in all of Kunark, Velious and Luclin.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 08/21/03 - 00:00 Post subject:
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| Silvermouse wrote: | | I love it when warriors get jealous of rogues and monks, like in all of Kunark, Velious and Luclin. |
yaaay
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Mogling
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Dec 2002
Posts: 2451
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Posted: 08/21/03 - 00:27 Post subject:
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Warriors were part of the golden trinity of classes in kunark :\
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FoShizzo
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 1856
Location: Oly, Washington
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Posted: 08/21/03 - 00:36 Post subject:
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wow, for the uber gear that Kreugen has he sure does have some s****y legs.....
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 08/21/03 - 01:13 Post subject:
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| Mogling wrote: | | Warriors were part of the golden trinity of classes in kunark :\ |
But that didn't stop them from b******g:
"My epic is too hard!"
"My epic isn't good enough!"
"Somebody help me camp cobalt bracer!"
"Why do you always help clerics get epics but I can never get anyone to help me get a green scale!"
Meanwhile, my epic(s) can be done in like 8.4 seconds. Har!
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 08/21/03 - 01:17 Post subject:
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I wish a gm would give me a Butcherblock Hammer.
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Jedite
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 123
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Posted: 08/23/03 - 08:52 Post subject:
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I for one am LAUGHING MY ASS OFF at all the bitching and whinning warriors are throwing out.....
Warriors are the best tanking class in the game bar none.. So what if they cant gain agro as fast as Knights, OH GOD a draw back for a warrior CRY ME A FUCKING RIVER.....
BUT MOMMY that Paladin/SK are better for groups than me... BAH give me a fucking break, sure we can gain agro faster and pretty much tank as well as you do in a exp group situation? Guess what Your DPS > Ours....
OH BUT SK/PALADINS have more useful stuff than us.. You know what WE f*****g deserve it... After all the shit we put up with being a Knight since release lets make a list of all the problems we had...
1. Shit for gear....
2. Exp penalty for being a Hybrid
3. Useless spells
4. pathetic damage
5. SKs if there was a Necro in group forget about them having any significant DPS.
6. Pallys cleric in group hmm what do i use these buffs for again?
7. Tanking HAHAHAHA like a f*****g single ply wet tissue paper..
8. Groups asking for a tank... (NOT PAL/SK)
9. Useless utility spells... Too much mana for s****y spells.
All of these concerns have been addressed after years of f*****g taking it up the ass with a BIG f*****g spiked club.... (lubrication not provided)
So what if we are more desirable in EXP groups? If a raid encounter doesnt call for Exesive CC , all paladns and SKs do is buff, hit half ass attack button , and an occansional heal here and there.... Warriors on the other hand get to Tank most of the stuff in raids dont ya? STOP b******g.
Oh but momy Furor said Knights need a nerf.... You know what f**k HIM and f**k you! =)
/rant off
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Deroth
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 506
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Posted: 08/23/03 - 10:10 Post subject:
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Your such an idiot, I don't know why you open your mouth.
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Jedite
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 123
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Posted: 08/23/03 - 10:39 Post subject:
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ah ha.....
...........
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Okami
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2242
Location: The new board
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Posted: 08/23/03 - 13:28 Post subject:
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I think knight dps is better than a warrior. Or at least sk is. The only thing a warrior has going for them anymore is the defense disc. Even hp differences are becoming minimal.
Give the defensive disc to sk's, and a lot of guilds can just delete all their warriors.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 08/23/03 - 18:54 Post subject:
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| Jedite wrote: | I for one am LAUGHING MY ASS OFF at all the bitching and whinning warriors are throwing out.....
Warriors are the best tanking class in the game bar none.. So what if they cant gain agro as fast as Knights, OH GOD a draw back for a warrior CRY ME A FUCKING RIVER.....
BUT MOMMY that Paladin/SK are better for groups than me... BAH give me a fucking break, sure we can gain agro faster and pretty much tank as well as you do in a exp group situation? Guess what Your DPS > Ours....
OH BUT SK/PALADINS have more useful stuff than us.. You know what WE f*****g deserve it... After all the shit we put up with being a Knight since release lets make a list of all the problems we had...
1. Shit for gear....
2. Exp penalty for being a Hybrid
3. Useless spells
4. pathetic damage
5. SKs if there was a Necro in group forget about them having any significant DPS.
6. Pallys cleric in group hmm what do i use these buffs for again?
7. Tanking HAHAHAHA like a f*****g single ply wet tissue paper..
8. Groups asking for a tank... (NOT PAL/SK)
9. Useless utility spells... Too much mana for s****y spells.
All of these concerns have been addressed after years of f*****g taking it up the ass with a BIG f*****g spiked club.... (lubrication not provided)
So what if we are more desirable in EXP groups? If a raid encounter doesnt call for Exesive CC , all paladns and SKs do is buff, hit half ass attack button , and an occansional heal here and there.... Warriors on the other hand get to Tank most of the stuff in raids dont ya? STOP b******g.
Oh but momy Furor said Knights need a nerf.... You know what f**k HIM and f**k you! =)
/rant off |
The linked thread is a PALADIN WHINE about warrior DPS vs Paladin DPS!
The problem is knights have the ability to gain agro, just about 100% of the time when they want it.. in addition to having tons of spells and 90% of the skills/AC/HP of warriors, slay undead, LOH, HTs, and a bard speed horse for a few AAs... On top of all of that, Kreugen wants more pure melee DPS! Get f*****g real. Weak gear? Have you bothered to compare warrior melee weapons to knight weapon ratios?
Warriors get /disc defensive/evasive and that 10% edge in hp/skills.. and some offensive AAs. Those tools do not allow us to maintain agro without a ton of melee agro built up or a couple of EB procs , which happen by luck. I'm sure some warriors will tell you how uber they are and maintain agro no problem ever, and they'll be a lying mofo.
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Ramalen
Luke Warm
Joined: 12 Aug 2003
Posts: 135
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Posted: 08/23/03 - 18:58 Post subject:
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I love pallys in group situations, given the chance i'll take a 65 pally over a 65 warrior any day.
a pally will normally have solid agro before the mob even reaches camp, which means i dont have to fast heal the chanter, shaman, or puller. the stuns take the mob out of commission (depending on the mob of course) for a bit, so the pally requires less CHeals per fight. that adds up to mean that i can sit there on my horse and chain nuke without worrying about not having the time to save the chanters butt or stealing agro from the tank. if the CLERIC is doing significant DPS, then you know you have a good tank, and thats how it is with most pally tanks 
plain simple fact.
SKs on the other hand.. well.. yeah, i hate SKs. no reason, i just do  it seems every time i'm right on with a heal, they lifetap and make it useless, but if i'm even a little late, they dont tap and die. <shrug>
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 08/23/03 - 19:08 Post subject:
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Your post explains exactly the problem There is very little risk with a paladin tanking in your average xp group. I fail to see how this makes xping more enjoyable or faster....it just allows healer and nukers and slowers to be careless about when/what they cast, nothing more.
If warriors could always lock agro down instantly this game would be even more trivial than it is now, which is why that isn't going to happen. I'll predict a nerf on stun/lifetap agro is incoming regardless.
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Brael
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2122
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Posted: 08/23/03 - 21:02 Post subject:
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Naa Frax, knight aggro wont get lowered. Hell as it is its worse than its ever been.
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Kaldon
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Nov 2002
Posts: 210
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Posted: 08/23/03 - 21:32 Post subject:
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Just fix the inordinate aggro amount that is created with Knight spells and voila, balance restored.
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bigj571
Total Newbie
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 36
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Posted: 08/23/03 - 21:44 Post subject:
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All stun/spell aggro is for knights is another fuckup that you can tuck in sonys belt. it has gone from a bane to a boon for the knights. Way to go sony you dont even know how to keep a disadvantage what its supposed to be. A f*****g DISADVANTAGE.
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Jedite
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 123
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Posted: 08/24/03 - 10:27 Post subject:
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why should Knights have a disadvantage in aquaring agro? I fail to see the reasoning behind this....
If Kruegen is asking for More dps.. and i dont think he is.. well No.. Knights dont need it.... IMO things are balanced as they are.. If they want up the agro a bit on taunt and thats it....
REALITY CHECK... all of the Paladin heals spells are IMO useless in a group exept for Group heal... Or maybe the quick heal.. ANd really I for 1 hardly use the quick heal just cause unless the shit hits the fan there isnt place for it during exping... So if you take away our fast agro what do we have to offer for a group? Our DPS sucks ass, and then gaining agro for us would be a b***h.. On the other hand Warriors have better DPS than us and well whens the last time you saw a Knight wielding a BoC or SoD? Never cause warriors get all over those.
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merdocc
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2038
Location: Pasadena Ca
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Posted: 08/24/03 - 15:11 Post subject:
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get act of valor and stop the b******g.
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Ishmobbin
( . )( . )'s Are Fun!
Joined: 09 Oct 2002
Posts: 1264
Location: Texas
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Posted: 08/24/03 - 15:47 Post subject:
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I duel comp a SK/Cleric so i can be a lazy b***h in the group and really only play the SK with a CH every few mobs.
Only downside to an SK is that his snare has a DoT with it, so yeah, it breaks Mezzes.
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Brael
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2122
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Posted: 08/24/03 - 16:10 Post subject:
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Heres some quick history on SK's for you, not sure about Paladins but it's fairly similar to this:
Pre-Kunark - We were absolute god's, 90% of a warriors hp, 100% of a warriors damage (straight melee I mean, SK's couldn't use spells for damage back then really, and Pallys had FA which owned everything hands down), utility, and high taunt to go with it. Of course we had a rather large exp penality back then so it was justified, or would have been had Verant implemented the penality right and punished the character not the group.
Early Kunark - Our skills capped very low (no offense increase, 3 point weapon increase, 2 point defense increase), had WEAKER armor than bards and clerics, had useless spells, kept our penalitys of manapool/manacost (SK's were triple penalised on taps for a long long time and double penalised on other spells, double manacost for taps, 9 level manapool penality... always thought this one made sense honestly, higher manacost on regular spells, plus we had no specialization for spells designed with spec in mind but I dont count this one). Low dps, despite having good ratio weapons for the time (19/24 1h) our dps was still p**s poor, infact it was so bad that a level 60 SK with 35% haste would get outdamaged using a 19/24 weapon (which happened to be our best weapon at the time) BY OUR PET. Oh ya, that pet was a level 39 necro pet... nice isnt it? We were also on a worse damage table further penalising those melee caps, and to top it all off to group a non existant source of dps, and tank which took hits WORSE than a f*****g ranger
Late Kunark - Skill caps were a bit better, no more extra mana penality on taps, no more mana pool penality, dps still total ass, spell mana costs still overboard
Velious - HT finally made useful, as long as you were using it on a green mob, otherwise still pointless. DPS went up reasonably, capable of tanking in exp groups, still 100% useless in raids, exp penality removed in here somewhere.
Luclin - AA improved us alot, raids designed specifically for knights to have some tanking role (well... 1 raid), SK taunt nerfed/restored/nerfed/restored/etc numerous times due to SoE adjusting things such as disease counter aggro and debuff aggro, end result our 2 staple aggro spells made useless, our 3rd rate taunt became our best one, terror line added except SoE didnt realise our other taunt spells are more aggro even after being nerfed, voice line gave us some use but not much
PoP - SK's finally ended up where we wanted to be since day 1 of kunark, our melee damage is under a warriors, using spells/pet we put out a decent amount (at the cost of tanking/utility ability), or we can goto a defensive spell lineup, put out low damage, and tank fairly well while holding aggro, as well as being viable in raid situations as tanks on trash mobs and have a couple of raid mobs for us to tank
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 08/24/03 - 20:36 Post subject:
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Nice post.
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Harkov
Luke Warm
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 229
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Posted: 08/24/03 - 22:35 Post subject:
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Hey look at it this way. Knights owned warriors back before kunark. We ascended to godhood with defensive around velious when ub3r mobs came on the scene.
It's hard when you are on top for 2-3 expansions and then to look around and see that your only real function now is to tank an ub3r mob and another class fills your role as good if not better sometimes in every other situation.
I think most warrior complaints against paladin or SK is that it's all about the gear to our job. A warrior can't taunt without the proc and like frax said that's all luck. Besides defensive disciplin (I know it's not an AA but it's still the godlike power ability), stun resist, and do knights get tactical mastery? We don't have any AAs that are class defining. It's really just defensive and our slightly higher DPS that seperate us out from all the knights unique abilites.
I honestly think that if defensive was never put into the game, warriors would of evolved to be a more fun class to play. Of course I could say the same about the overly dramatic armor/weapon differences between the high end game in the expansions since kunark. But that's basically every class hehe
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