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Sabathius
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2179
Location: San Angelo
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 Posted: 08/09/03 - 12:08 Post subject: the Da Vinci Code - part of why i'm not a Christian
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Pretty Good book. Reinforces alot of my beliefs.
In ancient times, the powers that be decided to hide the actual birth date of Jesus, to protect him and his offspring from being hunted down. Basically, there is this Group of people based in France that protect the whereabouts of the Holy Grail, which cotain the body of Jesus and his wife, Mary Magdalen, who bore him children. Why does our modern bible skip 32 years in Jesus's life? To protect his offspring, who are still alive today.
The day december 25 was chosen as the day of christs birth for many reasons.
1. Mithras was an ancient god worshiped before the birth of christ. He was said to be born on December 25, and at the end of his life he died, was placed in a stone tomb, and arose three days later. This is Mithras, not Jesus mind you. This is a fact and can be proven. On Mithras Day... Mithrasday....Christmas day, ancient armies would lay down their arms and the custom was to exchange gifts and peace for a single day. A little too similar for me.
2. A greek god was born on this day, Adonis i believe.
3. There was a festival for Dionysus on this day.
Edit.. I forgot the Egyptians..the had the Festival of Osiris on Dec 25. 0. B.C.
4. The eastern religions weren't left out either. There were festivals held for gods such as Shiva, in which the festival honored 3 wise kings from neighboring countries who brought Gold and Frankencense and Mhyrr.
This day was chosen so everyone would be able to celebrate on that day.
Also...
the Great Library of Alexandria contained millions of ancient scrolls with untold knowledge, and was lost when it was burned by the Emperor Constantine. Inside were 77 other Gospels that told of Jesus's life during the 32 years and his offsprings as well. Why were they burned? Because, Holy Roman Emperor Constantine was Christian and didn't want the decendents of Jesus to be hunted down and killed. The only three Gospels that we know of are the ones that are in our version of the bible.
The dead sea scrolls were such a shocker because they contained two more gospels along with the 3 we knew of...which confirmed it's authenticity.
The Mormons faith is derived from the OTHER books of the bible, the ones that Constantine threw out.
Kinda makes you wonder what else was changed. Modern faith is so convoluted, it's really sad.
Henry the VIII wanted to get a divorce, and the Catholic faith wouldn't let him. So what did he do? He changed the bible to read what he wanted it to. Boom, Protestant faith.
Do I believe in God? Yes. Do I believe in Jesus? I believe someone lived the life we hear a part of as Jesus. Do I believe the bible? Not in a hundred years.
Read the book, it's a murder mystery with alot of religious undertones.
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Thuphir
Luke Warm
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 206
Location: Baton Rouge
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 12:27 Post subject:
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That group of people in France... not so sure that's really to be taken for people that are still there, guess you are talking about the early Merovingian line. Which can be linked about 500 years after they fell from power in France to the roots of the Knights Templar and eventual Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. And from what you are saying you should know that Catholicism is quite nearly as convoluted as Protestantism.
And the Mormon faith is NOT derived from OTHER books of the Bible, the story behind Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon doesn't involve some books lost to any bs ecunemical or lateran council. The Dead Sea Scrolls are nice and interesting, too bad the Isreali Government doesn't allow 80% of the total find to be published (i.e. what is known publically as the Dead Sea Scrolls is only 20% of what was found around Qumar). Another interesting find that you'd probably get a kick out of is the Nag Hammadi texts, should look those up. Damn I'd write more but i need to get to work.
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TrueParadox
Sir Postalot
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 1005
Location: No Place Interesting
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 12:41 Post subject:
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| Thuphir wrote: | That group of people in France... not so sure that's really to be taken for people that are still there, guess you are talking about the early Merovingian line. Which can be linked about 500 years after they fell from power in France to the roots of the Knights Templar and eventual Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. And from what you are saying you should know that Catholicism is quite nearly as convoluted as Protestantism.
And the Mormon faith is NOT derived from OTHER books of the Bible, the story behind Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon doesn't involve some books lost to any bs ecunemical or lateran council. The Dead Sea Scrolls are nice and interesting, too bad the Isreali Government doesn't allow 80% of the total find to be published (i.e. what is known publically as the Dead Sea Scrolls is only 20% of what was found around Qumar). Another interesting find that you'd probably get a kick out of is the Nag Hammadi texts, should look those up. Damn I'd write more but i need to get to work. |
Very good points here, especially the one about the Mormon faith. The texts that the mormon faith are based off are nothing more than fabrications of Joseph Smith from some mystical plate he found in New York. Has nothing to do with any existing documentation thrown aside by anyone.
There is a TON of specualtion about the missing 32 years of the life of Christ, a lot of it points to the fact that he was indeed married and all the text referring to Mary Magdelan as a p********e was biased views from the apostles because of the attentions that were given to her over them. Ask any strict old world jewish male what a proper jewish father is to do for his son in the eyes of God. There's a list of things that a father is to have done for his son in those times by the time the boy is 18, and one of those is to have him married. It makes sense. Why wouldn't he be married? Being the son of God doesn't exlude him for procreation, and nowhere in the bible does it SAY that Christ was excluded from this natural order passed down from his Father. If he was married then he would have been practicing the "clean" **** as prescribed in the Bible..
One can theorize for an eternity about the Bible and religion, my take is that the Bible is a guidebook, a reference document for examples on how to live a good life. The rest of religion is between you and God to sort out.
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Tinladar
Sir Postalot
Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 1448
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 13:58 Post subject:
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and... not sure if anyone mentioned this... but the december 25th date was auctually set by the us government.. not sure where i heard it, but i remember it from somewhere
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 14:06 Post subject:
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you are so wrong
it is the Illuminati who control the world, with help from the 7 Elders of Zion
/nod
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 14:36 Post subject:
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| Tinladar wrote: | | and... not sure if anyone mentioned this... but the december 25th date was auctually set by the us government.. not sure where i heard it, but i remember it from somewhere |
The 25th predates the United States by hundreds of years. It started in Rome, when it essentially replaced one of their pagan holidays with a Christian celebration (once the empire turned Christian). Since nobody knows the birthdate of Christ, a day was probably chosen that would be palatable to existing celebrations.
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Guest
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 15:44 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | you are so wrong
it is the Illuminati who control the world, with help from the 7 Elders of Zion
/nod |
In a strange way, this is true.
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Sabathius
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2179
Location: San Angelo
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 16:19 Post subject:
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aright, i'll give you the Mormons...
but the rest made me think about what I used to believe in as a kid.
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 17:29 Post subject:
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I am glad to finally find out that the protestant faith began and ended with henry the 8th.. oh but wait it didnt!.. there were already alot of strong protestant uprising before mr henry.. the main point of the change was the study of the bible at home as more and more people became literate.. all henry did was change to protestant (making it legal to do so in england and found the church of england, because before that it was illegal in most european countries to not be a catholic.
The date of christs birth really isnt of much importance.. as long as you celebrate it it doesnt really matter if its on the exact day.. its kinda like when you give someone a s****y gift as a little kid.. its the thought that counts.
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Paden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 9362
Location: North CAROLINA!
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 18:22 Post subject:
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What I beleave.
There is a GOD! (i'm mean come on someone made us!)
I also beleave that he goes by many names!
Jesus! i dunno! he seems like a cool guy and all! died for us and stuff!
Yeah!
The bible is a book to read that tells you how life should be lived.
YEAH! thats it.
dont do drugs.
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PyttRock69
Luke Warm
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 137
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 19:13 Post subject:
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Jesus never had kids you f*****g moron. LOL
And if everything was burned in the Great Library how the f**k do you know what was actually in their? YOU DON'T.
ya you would have a good case if all your evidence was either
A. In reality still
B. people can confirm it all
b/c quite frankly to many holes in your story.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 20:37 Post subject:
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| PyttRock69 wrote: | Jesus never had kids you f*****g moron. LOL
And if everything was burned in the Great Library how the f**k do you know what was actually in their? YOU DON'T.
ya you would have a good case if all your evidence was either
A. In reality still
B. people can confirm it all
b/c quite frankly to many holes in your story. |
hahah, what kind of f*****g b******t is this?!
You've got to be s******g me. Can you prove to me that there was a Jesus for that matter?
Were you there? I DON"T THINK SO!1
you would have a valid counterpoint if
A. You didn't pull that out of your ass
B. You don't think before you post
b/c quite frankly, I don't think your name is Jesus Christ
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Zapper
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1512
Location: Connecticut
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 20:38 Post subject:
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Holy shit! You must know what happened all those missing years then right? Tell me what makes you a scholar on Jesus' life?
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 21:05 Post subject:
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His early years are open to debate, since there are no records of them. However, claiming there was no Jesus Christ is retarded. Every credible historian, even atheists, knows that there is enough historical evidence to demonstrate that he existed and that the details of his life are consistent with the Bible's record. Some people try to suggest that he was married, but there is no evidence to this, and no reason for the apostles to cover up such a thing.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 22:00 Post subject:
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| WheresNWS wrote: | | His early years are open to debate, since there are no records of them. However, claiming there was no Jesus Christ is retarded. Every credible historian, even atheists, knows that there is enough historical evidence to demonstrate that he existed and that the details of his life are consistent with the Bible's record. |
This isn't true, and remember: the burden of proof is on believers.
In fact, the only 'historical' evidence which suggests Jesus existed are the Gospels themselves... and being copies of copies of copies with no original manuscripts or completely determinable authors, they're hardly reliable.
Currently, the most significant finds related to New Testament figures have been the ossuary of Caiaphas, the high priest who was said to have handed Jesus over to the Romans for crucifixion, and a dedication tablet on a monument. This tablet mentions Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor of Judea who passed the death sentence against Jesus. There was an ossuary found a year or two ago that was supposedly once containing the bones of "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus." However, considerations such as it being written in Aramaic (unusual for an orthodox Jew), the popularity of the name Jesus, and the fact that many odd ossuaries exist from that period (they've got one in Jerusalem now which can be related to Jason of Argonaut, a wholly mythical character from ancient Greece.)
All you'll ever see is the statement 'many scholars agree Jesus existed.' Well, that's excellent and all, but let's see some proof. You've only had 2,000 years 
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Sabathius
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2179
Location: San Angelo
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 22:09 Post subject:
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Yes...there is evidence to this if you jack asses would have a little patience and yes... FAITH and read the damned book.
f**k you stupid, blind SUPERCHRISTIANS. You make me wanna shove a Giant 12 gauge in your g*****n throat like a big black c**k of death and blow your g*****n heads off. SHUT THE f**k UP AND ALLOW ME MY OWN f*****g OPINION. YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DIE?
NOTHING! NOT A GODDAMNED THING! LIGHTS OUT.. NOTHINGNESS FOR EVER AND EVER, BUT YOU DONT KNOW IT'S NOTHINGNESS BECAUSE YOU ARE f*****g NOTHING.
SO SHUT THE f**k UP, READ YOUR RIDICULOUS PIECE OF TRASH LITERATURE, THROW HARD EARNED MONEY TO GREEDY PIGS WHO USE IT TO LINE THEIR POCKETS, AND LEAVE ME THE f**k ALONE.
What I really don't get......
There is a church in my town next to a really busy road. It's right across from Cinemark Tinseltown 14 Movie Theatre and Outback Steakhouse. It's got a giant TV screen on the OUTSIDE of the Church. A f*****g MILLION DOLLAR MEGATRON ON THE OUTSIDE OF A f*****g CHURCH. WHAT THE HELL! such anger... 
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 22:27 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | | WheresNWS wrote: | | His early years are open to debate, since there are no records of them. However, claiming there was no Jesus Christ is retarded. Every credible historian, even atheists, knows that there is enough historical evidence to demonstrate that he existed and that the details of his life are consistent with the Bible's record. |
This isn't true, and remember: the burden of proof is on believers.
In fact, the only 'historical' evidence which suggests Jesus existed are the Gospels themselves... and being copies of copies of copies with no original manuscripts or completely determinable authors, they're hardly reliable.
Currently, the most significant finds related to New Testament figures have been the ossuary of Caiaphas, the high priest who was said to have handed Jesus over to the Romans for crucifixion, and a dedication tablet on a monument. This tablet mentions Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor of Judea who passed the death sentence against Jesus. There was an ossuary found a year or two ago that was supposedly once containing the bones of "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus." However, considerations such as it being written in Aramaic (unusual for an orthodox Jew), the popularity of the name Jesus, and the fact that many odd ossuaries exist from that period (they've got one in Jerusalem now which can be related to Jason of Argonaut, a wholly mythical character from ancient Greece.)
All you'll ever see is the statement 'many scholars agree Jesus existed.' Well, that's excellent and all, but let's see some proof. You've only had 2,000 years :P |
Actually the burden of proof lies with atheists, since Christianity is based on faith. The ossuary you mention was proven to be a fake and, if real, would offer no evidence, anyway. I also don't understand the claim that "we've" only had 2,000 years. It's not as though that much new stuff is going to pop up to suddenly prove the existence of Christ. You don't get much new evidence from 2000 year old historical events.
You are incorrect that there are no temporal references to Jesus. There are few works that remain from the time period and region. The New Testament is one. The fact that they tell the same story from different points of view and with varying styles indicates that they were not only probably accurate, but also probably not written in collusion. Another is Flavius Josephus' "Antiquity of the Jews", written by a non-Christian shortly after Jesus' death that specifically mentions Jesus as a "doer of wonderful works." In addition, other historical accounts coincide with the New Testament, such Pontius Pilate's position in Israel.
I would agree that there is no existing historical evidence to prove that Jesus was Christ or that he did anything significant at all. However, claiming that Jesus did not exist requires a greater amount of faith than does theism.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 22:52 Post subject:
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Point being, there is no physical evidence. Period. End of line.
Jesus, and "God" are just the most recent of beliefs. Many have come before, and I'm sure there will be many after.
I belive in Odin, as that is the god of my blood, I believe in Him, and when I die, I hope I go to Valhalla. But you see, it's just faith. It's all we have, is it not? I'm sure there really was an Odin at one time, many moons ago, just as perhaps there was a Jesus, and the god YOU believe in.
I love how you have to be right, but you're wrong, at least technically with such weak arguements.
Arrogant christians are funny.
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 23:03 Post subject:
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| Paco wrote: | Point being, there is no physical evidence. Period. End of line.
Jesus, and "God" are just the most recent of beliefs. Many have come before, and I'm sure there will be many after.
I belive in Odin, as that is the god of my blood, I believe in Him, and when I die, I hope I go to Valhalla. But you see, it's just faith. It's all we have, is it not? I'm sure there really was an Odin at one time, many moons ago, just as perhaps there was a Jesus, and the god YOU believe in.
I love how you have to be right, but you're wrong, at least technically with such weak arguements.
Arrogant christians are funny. |
I'm arrogant? You just stated that you are undisputedly correct without disputing my argument. I'm afraid atheists are incredibly arrogant. You adhere to the physicalist philosophy, which is nothing more than a post-modernist cult. Every physicalist argument I see is nothing more than "I am right, therefore I am right."
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Guest
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 23:27 Post subject:
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I am right.
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 23:28 Post subject:
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Therefore you are right.
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Xthos
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 550
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 23:34 Post subject:
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Heh, pretty funny shit, want to type a page of caps about christians not allowing you your beliefs, and pushing shit down your throat.....BUT in a thread you made to do the exact same shit.
No im not a big 'superchristian' , I think denominations are a bunch of bs, and so are the tv evangalists and such that are getting rich stealing everyones money.
Read what ya want, believe what ya want, but to try to force your views on others and think you will make any headway is pure ignorance.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 08/09/03 - 23:59 Post subject:
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The only reason people even bother with religion is that the human race as a whole is too arrogant to think that they might just be another organism that ceases to exist like everything else on this planet.
Here's my sad belief system: When you die, it's over. No Heaven for the pure little child and no Hell for the monster that killed her.
Someday I plan to do a little ghost-hunting, if you will, in the hopes that I can achieve some sort of enlightenment into the afterlife. Is a ghost just a photograph of the soul?
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 08/10/03 - 00:25 Post subject:
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| Silvermouse wrote: | The only reason people even bother with religion is that the human race as a whole is too arrogant to think that they might just be another organism that ceases to exist like everything else on this planet.
Here's my sad belief system: When you die, it's over. No Heaven for the pure little child and no Hell for the monster that killed her.
Someday I plan to do a little ghost-hunting, if you will, in the hopes that I can achieve some sort of enlightenment into the afterlife. Is a ghost just a photograph of the soul? |
Isn't that backwards? Without religion, humans are the dominant species in the known universe. With religion, our status is lowered. Doesn't that make atheism arrogant?
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Valik1
Luke Warm
Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 100
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Posted: 08/10/03 - 00:28 Post subject:
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Paco.. your the man 
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Guest
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Posted: 08/10/03 - 00:40 Post subject:
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There must be a god.
Something put alot of thought into creating a creature of such profound beauty.
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Jinu
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2396
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Posted: 08/10/03 - 00:58 Post subject:
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Guys, there was a Jesus. I'd post the link but I'm tired and a little tipsy.
when he got tried, there is historical evidence of a person named Jesus getting tried in a court for public disruption or whatever.
Thats not the question. The question is whether this guy was just an out of work rubble rouser or an important religious figure.
I don't know a whole lot about christianity specificially, but Magdalene is the chick that washed Jesus' feet with her hair or whatever.
Well, if the b***h was married to old JC, there is no f*****g way she'd be washing his feet with her hair. She'd be like "b***h, I do the dishes, feed the kids, do the cooking, you wash MY feet with your f*****g hair"
just my take on it.
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Valik1
Luke Warm
Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 100
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Posted: 08/10/03 - 00:59 Post subject:
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 08/10/03 - 01:08 Post subject:
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| Valik1 wrote: | |
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Paden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 9362
Location: North CAROLINA!
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Posted: 08/10/03 - 01:09 Post subject:
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GOD
God is a word that gets threw around alot.
What does GOD really mean? Is it a great man? Or is it a myth?
Something someone made everything you see. When I went to a Babtist church long ago I asked my sunday school teacher. Who made the world?
She told me god. Who made god? I asked, Well no one made God she said, He was just there.
How can somthing just be there. It cant!
I cant tell no one that they are wrong.
Paco beleaves in Odin. Ok thats fine by me how do i know he is wrong? I dont.
You just cant cry and whine and say My god owns your god.
Science is one of the most best and worst things to happen.
Science tells another story then the one the bible and many other religious books tell us.
Science says the world was made with a big BANG! (explosion)
The bible says the world was made in 6 days.
The great flood in the bible in were they carried all the animals on a ship. This story exist in the holy books but at diffrent time periods (seen this on TLC)
So what if the guy to the right of you beleaves in God and the guy to the left of you beleaves in Odin. Who is to say one of them is wrong?
Just remmeber what ever anyone says and what ever anyone beleaves.
We were all made by the same person and no name or face can tell who "it was.
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