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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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 Posted: 11/23/04 - 15:47 Post subject: stem cell research proves you have no soul
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so i was talking to a friend of mine and we came up with this theory.
So Christians believe that the soul is handed out at conception, the moment the sperm enters the egg and starts life. Fair enough. So stem cell researchers create stem cells in the lab by fertilizing the egg in the Petri dish. This clump of cells in the dish has its own soul and if put back in a woman would grow into a child. My question is then what happens when ya attach it to my liver cell and it grows into my new liver ? does my new liver have its own soul ? is it possible that my liver goes to heaven and I go to hell then ? I mean we never killed any of these cells. at no point do you kill the clump of cells so the soul should never have left them right? The only argument I have heard is divine intervention , god comes down from heaven and sucks out the soul because he feels bad for these babies ….. This explanation just doesn’t work for me. God doesn’t do anything about the millions of abortions or the millions of people who die of starvation or millions who are born with some sick disease. why would he come down and save these souls but no others ?
I realize that this argument sounds really stupid but at the same time can anyone try and explain where the soul went and if it stayed would your liver haunt you ?
Best idea we could come up with was to clone a new mouth from stem cells and have it tell you …..
Last edited by Brash on 11/23/04 - 15:48; edited 1 time in total
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 15:48 Post subject: Re: stem cell research proves you have no soul
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| Brash wrote: | | Best idea we could come up with was to clone a new mouth from stem cells and have it tell you ….. |
Did you really come up with that? It sounds pretty witty. 
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12940
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 15:48 Post subject:
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You're just trying to get people to start a huge debate.
P.S. Tell your friend to cut back on the acid.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 15:50 Post subject:
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really i think this makes the Christians argument look really silly .
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Devook
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 2374
Location: Ypsilanti or Troy, MI
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 15:51 Post subject:
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Abortion/stem cell threads = shit explosions.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12940
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 15:51 Post subject:
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baby's don't have souls until they breath in their first breath
that's right from the 7th Sign, with Demi Moore!
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Devook
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 2374
Location: Ypsilanti or Troy, MI
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 15:54 Post subject:
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Babies don't have souls until they develop a penis. Women are just for making sandwiches.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 15:54 Post subject:
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On a side note we tried to use this to prove there was no god but couldn’t come up with a convincing theory. Went something like this.
So all the sudden it seems rather silly to believe that the soul is handed out at conception. So when is it hand it out ? one month , two months ? when it comes out of a vagina ? err when its cut out in a c section ? ok this all sounds so stupid now , maybe there is no soul and if there is no soul there can be no god or at the very least no reason to follow any of the b******t he wants us to do …….
This argument didn’t work out as well as the first though ….
Last edited by Brash on 11/23/04 - 15:57; edited 1 time in total
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 15:56 Post subject:
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| Devook wrote: | | Abortion/stem cell threads = shit explosions. |
just a note , i am not talking about stem cells from abortions. i am talking about stem cells from a clump of about 100 cells about the size of the head of a pin, all created in a lab from a sperm and an egg .
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 16:06 Post subject:
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Never thought about this before, but it's obvious the soul can't appear when the egg is fertilized. Because identical twins are formed when a fertilized egg splits in two, so if the soul was formed when the egg was fertilized, there'd only be one soul. Which twin gets it? Or is there really always an "evil twin", which is the one without the soul? That would kind of suck.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 16:10 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | | Never thought about this before, but it's obvious the soul can't appear when the egg is fertilized. Because identical twins are formed when a fertilized egg splits in two, so if the soul was formed when the egg was fertilized, there'd only be one soul. Which twin gets it? Or is there really always an "evil twin", which is the one without the soul? That would kind of suck. |
wru
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Kendolekk
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 750
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 16:14 Post subject:
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| Brash wrote: | | really i think this makes the Christians argument look really silly . |
It didn't need help doing so.
| Brash wrote: | | On a side note we tried to use this to prove there was no god |
You need proof?
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 16:22 Post subject:
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I don't think it's any more possible to prove there's no god than it is to prove there's one, or a hundred.
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 16:31 Post subject:
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I think your problem is that you are thinking in flesh and trying to use the material world (And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be) to explain a spiritual world. You need to learn the power of the will.
None of you have practiced magic? At least in your youth? I used to study Crowley and delved in white and some black magic in my younger years with friends. We made shit happen as well as bad spirits, etc,...come about, in a nutshell.
Brash, go learn how to use real magic.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 16:33 Post subject:
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Physicalism does not believe in a soul. Religion is not physicalist in nature. Understand the differences and you will be one step closer to self-actualization.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 16:36 Post subject:
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| Dyers wrote: | | None of you have practiced magic? At least in your youth? I used to study Crowley and delved in white and some black magic in my younger years with friends. We made shit happen as well as bad spirits, etc,...come about, in a nutshell. |
People always use either delved or dabbled when writing paragraphs like that.
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 16:47 Post subject:
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Confused explained it better.
You are looking in the physical world for things that are not.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12940
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 16:51 Post subject:
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What kind of god needs a starship?
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 16:54 Post subject:
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You saying Jefferson was a god?
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 17:00 Post subject:
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| Dyers wrote: | Confused explained it better.
You are looking in the physical world for things that are not. |
if you leave everything at that then there will never be any conversation about it at all. too easy to hide behind statements like this without coming up with a real defense .
| Dyers wrote: |
None of you have practiced magic? At least in your youth? I used to study Crowley and delved in white and some black magic in my younger years with friends. We made shit happen as well as bad spirits, etc,...come about, in a nutshell.
Brash, go learn how to use real magic. |
i have a real hard time believing you summuned any demons/bad spirits ... whatever
"we made shit happen" ....... oh come on man ..........
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 17:05 Post subject:
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Your loss.
I don't owe you anything, no idea why you think I do, and since when do I need to go into detail about any more of my life? 
Go search out lifes answers on your own. To ask anyone to prove to you if such a thing exists or not, in text, on a message board, is stupidity on your part.
The basic deal was well explained to you easily enough. Physical/ Spiritual.
Get it? Probably not...
I merely offered another alternative for you to do research. Go get laid, you are to uptight.
Last edited by Dyers on 11/23/04 - 17:10; edited 2 times in total
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Fattguyy
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 9911
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 17:08 Post subject:
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George Carlin proved there was no God !
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 17:20 Post subject:
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| Brash wrote: | | Dyers wrote: | Confused explained it better.
You are looking in the physical world for things that are not. |
if you leave everything at that then there will never be any conversation about it at all. too easy to hide behind statements like this without coming up with a real defense .
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Because there can be no argument. Physicalism asserts that if it can't be measured, then it can't exist. The soul still mystifies physicalists because it can't be measured by any known physical means. They therefore assert that it does not exist. But there you sit...pondering your own existence.
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Wulfheart
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1478
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 17:48 Post subject:
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"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Q.E.D.."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
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Renork
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 6283
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 18:05 Post subject:
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| Wulfheart wrote: | "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Q.E.D.."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing. |
Damnit you beat me.
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denuvien
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 153
Location: McMinnville, OR
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 18:06 Post subject:
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Proponents of stem cell research actually used this in an argument in congress. It went something like this:
Up until about the 50th day after conception (I don't recall the actual day, so humour me) a fetus can split into twins.
Obviousely twins are two unique people, so which twin was the mass of cells before the split? Obviousely it was neither, it was not a unique person, because it became TWO unique people, so it couldn't be ONE unique person, so it must be a random mass of cells, and isn't a person, since it lacks uniqueness, therefor it should be fine to abort the fetus, because it's not a person.
It was shot down though by the argument that, with cloning, we can ALWAYS make a second unique person from a single unique person. That is, if a guy is 90, we can split off some of his cells, and grown them into a person who is unique from the original.
since this is true you can only come to two conclusions: Either the original clump of cells is one unique person, and the splitting of the clump creates a SECOND unique person (rather than going from none to two, going from one to two), or it should be perfectly reasonable to abort anyone at any time.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 18:13 Post subject:
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| denuvien wrote: | Proponents of stem cell research actually used this in an argument in congress. It went something like this:
Up until about the 50th day after conception (I don't recall the actual day, so humour me) a fetus can split into twins. |
Really? Heh, damn, it's hard to have an original thought anymore 
But yeah, the cloning argument is even better.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 18:33 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | | denuvien wrote: | Proponents of stem cell research actually used this in an argument in congress. It went something like this:
Up until about the 50th day after conception (I don't recall the actual day, so humour me) a fetus can split into twins. |
Really? Heh, damn, it's hard to have an original thought anymore
But yeah, the cloning argument is even better. |
I think if life starts at conception, or a soul is bonded to flesh at conception, then for twins it is really two souls. There is no bounds as to how much "soul" you can fit into a certain physical area, so it's entirely feasible that there are two souls in one egg/sperm at conception. That also means it's entirely feasible for people to be possessed...but for some reason I have a hard time believing in that lol. Maybe the Excorcist killed it for me :\
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Yabden
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 2485
Location: Ohio
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 18:46 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | | I don't think it's any more possible to prove there's no god than it is to prove there's one, or a hundred. |
true that
its just a argument that never has a end.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 11/23/04 - 18:50 Post subject:
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I've conjured a few 'bad spirits' in my day...
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