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Booker
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2562
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
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 Posted: 05/17/03 - 20:14 Post subject: matrix theory (spoiler stuff)
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at the end of the second movie neo "senses" that the sentinels are coming, and then basically shoots lightning out of his hands.
could it be that the world they believe to be real is in fact another matrix?
they only think they are unhooked when in fact they have only escaped from 1 matrix.
there could be an infinite number of matrixes, nested within each other, designed to never allow anyone to escape.
or he could just have super powers.
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Oogie
Luke Warm
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 216
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Posted: 05/17/03 - 20:32 Post subject:
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Well, I don't think it has anything to do with infinite matrixes.
In the end when he was talking to The Architect, the guy stated that there have been 5 other rebellions all led by Neo-type people. He claimed these people were nothing more than anomalies in the system. In essence, Neo's powers and abilities were given to him from inevitable anomalies in the programming of the Matrix.
That given, Neo's ability to kill the sentinels, IMO, has to do with his having some of the system's programming inherent in himself.
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Krumble
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 771
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Posted: 05/17/03 - 21:36 Post subject:
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After thinking more about it, there is absolutely no reason for the robots to create a 2nd matrix when the 1% of the population that inherently refuses to accept the matrix can be just as easily controlled in zion. The robots don't gain the body heat or whatever that they normally harvest from the prisoners, but they take care of the glitch (Neo and his 5 predecessors) in the system and continue to upgrade the matrix at the same time.
A second matrix then is unnecessary and unlikely.
What I really wonder about is who the "mother" of the matrix is that the architect talks about. It seems like the oracle is playing both sides in the conflict and the architect scoffs at Neo's suggestion that it's her. She tells Neo what he needs to know to repeat the cycle and so it seems like she is operating as the matrix wants her to, but in the first movie, she seems to guide neo and trinity into a relationship. Because it's their love that makes neo choose to fight, where the other 5 chose to rebuild zion, I think the oracle is secretly working against the machines.
The only other strong female character inside the matrix is the merovingian's wife, so I don't see how it could be anyone but her.
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Spink
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 1599
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Posted: 05/17/03 - 22:12 Post subject:
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99% chance that it is two matrixes. Neo is just the first person ever to 'wake up' twice. The Architect said that Zion was a simulation (aka part of the outer matrix)
and the whole Agent Smith controlling people in the 'real world' isn't likely without the 'real world' actually being something he is plugged into. Plus what the hell else could be the story for Revolutions?
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Orison
Luke Warm
Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 117
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Posted: 05/17/03 - 23:44 Post subject:
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I don't think they would try to throw us through a loop like that with there being two matrix's. To me that would just border on ridiculious. My first impression was that somehow he has taken part of his powers from the matrix with him into the real world. I was thinking maybe his mind became so in tune with everything that he has learned to use it beyond normal human capacity. Or perhaps something along the lines of what Oogie said. I haven't really given it much thought but now that you mention it I'm really starting to wonder! 
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Kin
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 388
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Posted: 05/18/03 - 00:02 Post subject:
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nah, part of agent smith imbedded itself in neo. He was part of the program so it'd make sense that he could sense the machines.
Didn't anyone else notice that agent smith escaped the matrix???
That's the key right there.
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Kbarr
Guest
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Posted: 05/18/03 - 00:18 Post subject:
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Just saw it tonight.
My take is this, when hes in the matrix hes altering, bending the programs, right? Aren't programs 1 and 0s? and on a base lv aren't programs just electricty? So if hes manipulating electricty inside the matrix with his mind what would stop him from manipulating it outside the matrix? It looked to me when he dropped the sentinels he did it just like the human ships do it, with an EMP blast. I think the power he had in matrix 1 might have been augmented because of the merger with the smith program. Just my take.
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TASB
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1104
Location: The Outback
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Posted: 05/18/03 - 01:30 Post subject:
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Did anyone else notice that They all had all of their plugs? In the first Matrix they removed all but Neo's head plug when they repaired his body.
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Akronn
Guest
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Posted: 05/18/03 - 01:55 Post subject:
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They're just making up the story as they go along, like George Lucas.
'Shit! The studio wants more!?! I better get something down on paper!'
Don't hurt your brain too much. Not every little thing in every little scene has significance.
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xammer99
Luke Warm
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 336
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Posted: 05/18/03 - 03:26 Post subject:
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Hmmm, I'm honestly pretty sure that the Architect was partially lying to Neoh. He was tryin to turn him against the Oracle for one, and definately lyin about the 6 other aberations like Neoh.
1. The Oracle is prolly a left over program like the Key Master. Why would a program with the ability to predict the future be created? To test things out, she's a left over beta program. She calculates probabilities and then picks the most likely one. Given enough computational power, she can predict reasonably far into the future, particularly if she influences & guides events to make it more probable...as she did there.
2. 6 Zions & Neohs? Naw, that has to be a lie (or bad writing). He was trying to get him to accept the other door cause it would mean comformity and acceptance of the truth and necessity of the Matrix. I.e. bring him back into the fold.
So, why not 6 zions? Because it is utterlly illogical to allow your enemy to rebuild itself 6 times. One of those times they might get lucky and win. So don't let'em rebuild after you've shattered them. Not to mention that from a breeding population of 10 it'd take 300 years to reach Zion's population of 250,000, and thats assuming some sort of accident didn't wipe out'em out. I.e. disease, cave collapse, etc... And you'd have to give them a massive technological & materials investment so that they could spend their time breeding instead of just working & building infrastructure. Highly advanced technological societies, like they have, take a _LOT_ to build up, you just don't start it from scratch from 10 people. And even if you did, people would most assuredly know where it all came from. 300 years is not that long, and in said advanced society, records would be around still of the help the guys had at the start from the machines.
But why allow Zion to exist? Several reasons.
a. They pose so little threat and can be managed without having to expend considerable resources. Hell it would cost MORE resources to set them back up than it would to just let'em keep bumping off the odd drone.
b. Its logical. They are a 'back up crop' incase the main ones fail for whatever reason. Remember, these things are kept on the surface and as such subject to asteroid impacts or other unforseen tragedies. So, just incase bad shit happens, you got a maintence free source of'em.
c. Zion serves the same purpose as snakes esentially for the machines. It gets rid of the vermin that might possibly interfer with the Matrix, same as a snake gets rid of vermin that eat the grain. You don't kill the snakes, you let'em go until they truly do become dangerous.
So, why bump off Zion now? Because of Neoh. He's really damn different, and the "lucky shot" has just come into being. Note, the story is set only a few months after the 1st movie. That means the machines are acting honestly pretty quick. It'd take that long to assemble the resources necessary to mount that sorta drilling operation. You gotta design the machines capable of boring 100m per hour, you gotta build the machines, then you gotta get'em in place. That sorta thing takes time & resources to do. Then add in the 250,000 drones you gotta crank out, when before, I seriously doubt that the machines had THAT many of'em. So give it a couple of months to scale up production.
Hell, the "ultimate" weapon of the humans was fraggin EMP, the humans were so little of a threat that the machines didn't even bother shielding against it. That should tell you something right there, when the big enemy's big weapon is so trivial that its easier to just out produce it with your current model than go back to design & development to create a new model. Look at how awesome a processing power they have, such a thing would be trivial, and they don't even bother?
But, back to why now. Because Neoh is different, and is dangerous. He is the 1st really serious aberation they've encountered and its paniced them so to speak, and so they are gonna smash it and are taking a multiple avenue approach. They try and turn neoh in the Matrix. They try and turn him in the Matrix. And in the physical world they are attacking his resource base and scaling up the drone patrols to get him.
i.e. the usefulness of Zion just got outweighed by 1 guy who can do some wierd shit that the machines don't understand and can't counter balance. With his abilities he can destory entire crops and bring the machines down in the Matrix. So kill it by whatever means is necessary.
As for Neoh's real world abilities? I doubt the machines predicted that, and no idea what it is and might give the humans the ability to win, cause right now they just cannot. But may be one guy can balance it out, kinda cheesy, but hey when you got god on your side, anything can happen =)
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Mogling
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Dec 2002
Posts: 2451
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Posted: 05/18/03 - 08:53 Post subject:
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Actuly they let Zion exist becaouse it was so small, they prolly keep those drilling/drones around for when the one comes around to reset the matrix, The only thing diffrent about neo is what the architect says that insted of having a strong connection with all humans he has a strong connection with one then shows trinity on the screens. Also If you have an entire planet of machines 250,000 isent alot. And he said that they need Zion to exist becaouse thats where the 1% that dident accept the code went, if there was no Zion the matrix wouldent work.
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Iegan
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 342
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Posted: 05/18/03 - 09:53 Post subject:
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Either;
A) Agent Smith plays more of a part in all of this than everybody thinks (likely, since he's a big part of the Revolutions trailer), and he somehow gave Neo powers in the "real world"
B) The "real world" isn't real at all, and is just another Matrix. Neo is the first person to realize this, and has powers in the "real world" now.
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Ralac
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 123
Location: STL
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Posted: 05/18/03 - 11:40 Post subject:
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but if the real world is just another matrix, and Neo is the first person to recognize this, why did it hurt him to use his powers? Wouldn't it just be like in the regular matrix and he could use his powers and be fine?
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Goraz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3736
Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: 05/18/03 - 12:04 Post subject:
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well if the Matrix is based on the mind, then its quite possible the adaptation from the matrix translates his mind into applying it IRL.
hence him trashing those sentinels by raising his hand.
then going into coma from the body eletricity he produced
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Akronn
Guest
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Posted: 05/18/03 - 23:39 Post subject:
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They can spin this trilogy a few ways still.
Morpheus and Trinity could be programs. Their mission is to find the One and deliver him to the architect, who is the creator of the Matrix. Why? Because The One's purpose is to save the Matrix, not to free humans. He is not the anomaly in the system... he is the one that has to find the anomaly and get rid of it.
The actual anomaly is Smith, who could be the only actual human on the Matrix world. He is supposed to be another program, an agent, but he thinks, feels, and has some sort of freewill, something that none of the other characters have showed. Now that Smith has seen the real world, he'll want out, and he knows that he can only do so by killing Neo because he is the key to reset/turn off the Matrix.
Or, keeping along the Smith line:
It is now very obvious that Agent Smith has been changed after Neo killed him in the Matrix, but perhaps Neo and Smith BOTH infected each other. Neo infected Smith with humanity while Smith also changed Neo and infected him by giving him some of his powers. This would explain why Neo could feel the agents at the broadcasting, and feel the sentinals when they were coming at the end of Reloaded.
Here is what I think: something happend when Neo killed Smith and it has something to do with the way in which he killed him. Somehow they became one and are The One.
This message was spelled out for us in the engine room:
Humans can't live without the Machines & the Machines can't live without humans.
I guess there are other possibilites.... we could go on for days.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 05/19/03 - 06:01 Post subject:
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it wuz good, ah thank
mabe yew cun hunt with mah dawgs.
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Reebo
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1260
Location: Downtown Miami
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Posted: 05/19/03 - 09:24 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | The "real world" isn't real at all, and is just another Matrix. Neo is the first person to realize this, and has powers in the "real world" now. |
You know if they want to make a happy sunshine ending to part 3 here it is. Remember in Part 1 how the world outside looked and in part to the caves and stuff.
Well if you want a happy ending make the "real world" a matrix 2 and when neo frees the people from that matrix the world is really all healed and like a jungle.
Or you can p**s of the public by making the matrix be just neo dreaming and part 3 ends with him waking up in his apartment in part 1 and it was all fake.
Or the matrix could be neo's program and he made it when the earth was distroyed so he could live on.
You can end the movie allot of ways we will just have to wait and see but god i hope they don't do the "it was all a dream" ending.
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Guest
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Posted: 05/19/03 - 11:45 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | They're just making up the story as they go along, like George Lucas.
'Shit! The studio wants more!?! I better get something down on paper!'
Don't hurt your brain too much. Not every little thing in every little scene has significance. |
Yes
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Kaladam
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1110
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Posted: 05/19/03 - 12:11 Post subject:
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| Reebo wrote: |
Or you can p**s of the public by making the matrix be just neo dreaming and part 3 ends with him waking up in his apartment in part 1 and it was all fake.
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I thought it was going to be that :p
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 05/19/03 - 12:16 Post subject:
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| Kaladam wrote: | | Reebo wrote: |
Or you can p**s of the public by making the matrix be just neo dreaming and part 3 ends with him waking up in his apartment in part 1 and it was all fake.
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I thought it was going to be that :p |
That would be so incredibly gay. They would never do that.
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 05/19/03 - 12:30 Post subject:
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| WheresNWS wrote: | | Kaladam wrote: | | Reebo wrote: |
Or you can p**s of the public by making the matrix be just neo dreaming and part 3 ends with him waking up in his apartment in part 1 and it was all fake.
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I thought it was going to be that :p |
That would be so incredibly gay. They would never do that. |
I agree, this isn't some two-bit Tuesday afternoon soap opera.
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