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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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 Posted: 06/12/05 - 20:32 Post subject: how does napster take your songs back?
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once you cancel your service how does napster stop you from listening to all the music you have downloaded? is there a work around ?
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16398
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 06/12/05 - 21:46 Post subject:
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it does?
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goatface
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1354
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Posted: 06/12/05 - 22:08 Post subject:
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i don;t have napster
but pretty sure, the stuff you download under the unlimited plan
can only be played by their software, which phones home
if you want to put it on your ipod you have to pay like .80
to get that copy
soon, think they will offer a way to upgrade some portable player's firmware
so it can phone in to let use them with the unlimited plan
not looked into cracks/hacks/bypasses
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 06/13/05 - 11:58 Post subject:
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has to be a way to get around this .....
what mp3 players work with this ?
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motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
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Posted: 06/13/05 - 12:36 Post subject:
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Welcome to the world of renting your music. This is why subscription-based plans are garbage unless you want to go through the effort of converting every song to MP3/WAV/Ogg/Whatever as soon as you get it. This is why they're subscriptions... once you stop paying, you lose access to all your stuff. Microsoft is working on some crap for Windows that will prevent you from playing any "non-signed" media or whatever. Been a while since I read up on it.
Here's something I've been pondering for a while: When I was like 8 years old, I had the CD "Beach Boys: Made in the USA." I'm sure it's somewhere at my mother's house but I don't feel like finding it. The point being, at some point I've already paid for all those songs. So, legally, shouldn't I be entitled to download MP3s for the songs on that album? I mean really, whether I can find the disc or not, I've paid for the stuff. The problem lies in proving that I owned it at some point I guess. I think Judge Judy would accept the liner notes as proof of purchase. The question of what you're paying for when you buy a CD has never really been resolved: are you buying the plastic disc, or the music on it?
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Owyyn
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2900
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Posted: 06/13/05 - 13:14 Post subject:
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| motherface wrote: | | Welcome to the world of renting your music. This is why subscription-based plans are garbage unless you want to go through the effort of converting every song to MP3/WAV/Ogg/Whatever as soon as you get it. This is why they're subscriptions... once you stop paying, you lose access to all your stuff. Microsoft is working on some crap for Windows that will prevent you from playing any "non-signed" media or whatever. Been a while since I read up on it. |
HAHA. What a joke. Microsoft will spend a year developing this technology, and then some 14 year old in Sweden will make a crack in less than 24 hours.
If all else fails... line out, line in.
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4043
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 06/13/05 - 13:53 Post subject:
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| Owyyn wrote: | | If all else fails... line out, line in. |
Exactly. I don't understand why these music companies work so hard to make these uncopyable files when they have to be eventually converted to sound, which is completely trivial to copy. All they are doing is making their product less convenient for their customers to use, and it's still a piece of cake to pirate.
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motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
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Posted: 06/13/05 - 14:07 Post subject:
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| Owyyn wrote: | | motherface wrote: | | Welcome to the world of renting your music. This is why subscription-based plans are garbage unless you want to go through the effort of converting every song to MP3/WAV/Ogg/Whatever as soon as you get it. This is why they're subscriptions... once you stop paying, you lose access to all your stuff. Microsoft is working on some crap for Windows that will prevent you from playing any "non-signed" media or whatever. Been a while since I read up on it. |
HAHA. What a joke. Microsoft will spend a year developing this technology, and then some 14 year old in Sweden will make a crack in less than 24 hours.
If all else fails... line out, line in. |
Microsoft is working to make sure line-out and line-in no longer work with the peripherals you're used to. If you want to hook up speakers using their OS, you'll have to use Microsoft-approved USB speakers or microphone.
At some point it can always be copied because at some point it has to become sound waves.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 06/13/05 - 16:24 Post subject:
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i have a hard time believing Microsoft would implement this . how does it effect MS if people piret music ? in fact this would give people incentive to switch and use a different operating system....
they may be toying around with the idea but i really doubt this would be implemented .
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motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
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Posted: 06/13/05 - 17:00 Post subject:
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| Brash wrote: | i have a hard time believing Microsoft would implement this . how does it effect MS if people piret music ? in fact this would give people incentive to switch and use a different operating system....
they may be toying around with the idea but i really doubt this would be implemented . |
Microsoft is part owner of MSNBC. NBC owns Universal now or something? Anyway they do this because they know the music and movie industries are salivating for these "features."
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/drm/default.aspx
| Quote: | Advantages for Content Owners
Microsoft, along with most of the software industry, has battled piracy for many years. As a result, Microsoft has gained a deep understanding of the damage that the copying of digital media can do to artists and corporations alike.
Windows Media DRM was first released in August 1999. The platform includes both server and client software development kits (SDKs) and "porting kits" that enable programs to protect and play back digital media files. For more information, see Platform Components of Windows Media DRM.
Windows Media DRM 10 supports a number of new scenarios that give content owners new outlets to reach consumers. Most importantly, content owners will not have to re-encode existing content to take advantage of the new functionality.
The Windows Media Rights Manager SDK lets content providers deliver music, videos, and other digital media content over the Internet in a protected, encrypted file format. These files can be either streamed or downloaded to the consumer's computer—and with Windows Media DRM 10 they can be delivered directly to devices that are connected to the Internet.
The DRM component in the Windows Media Format SDK enables developers to write applications to acquire licenses and decrypt protected digital media files. The consumer can then use these applications to play protected digital media files.
Windows Media DRM, in conjunction with Windows Media Encoder, can also support real-time encryption; encoding and encrypting the file simultaneously such that the content is never vulnerable prior to delivery. |
| Quote: | 2.7 What is Secure Audio Path?
All PC systems are vulnerable to attacks that seek to replace device drivers. For example, a digital media file is vulnerable to interception on the way to the sound driver after the file has been decrypted and downloaded from the DRM system to a media player. With the release of Secure Audio Path technology in Windows Millennium and Windows XP, the data path inside the operating system is protected during transfer from the media player to the sound card. This will reduce attacks based on false plug-ins because these components only have access to encrypted data. A certified Microsoft component verifies that all downstream components (including the sound card driver) are also certified. It does not decrypt the data stream if it detects unauthorized or compromised components in the execution path.
2.8 Does Secure Audio Path require specific hardware?
All Windows Hardware Quality Labs (WHQL)-certified signed audio drivers for Windows XP support Secure Audio Path. For more information about WHQL-certified signed audio drivers, see the Windows Hardware and Driver Central page |
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/drm/faq.aspx#drmfaq_2_7
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goatface
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1354
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Posted: 06/13/05 - 17:01 Post subject:
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i don't know if it was just thoery or what
but i read that Intel is working on having the check to play
certain files built into the main chip.
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r00typooh
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5178
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted: 06/13/05 - 17:44 Post subject: Re: how does napster take your songs back?
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| Brash wrote: | | once you cancel your service how does napster stop you from listening to all the music you have downloaded? is there a work around ? |
to respond to your question, i think in order to play Napter downloaded music, you need to have internet connectivity... i don't think you can play your downloaded songs if WMP or the Napster software can't verify if the license is valid.
just a guess tho.
off to another question, how do you like the service so far? i've been thinking about jumping on board with a service like this for some time, but i'd really rather have higher quality files.... what's your view of napster?
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 06/13/05 - 21:01 Post subject:
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haven't used it yet i'm just thinking about it . i don't mind the $9.99 a month . i really don't even mind the thought of eternally paying $9.99 if i can have unlimited music at my finger tips with a service that is incredibly easy and fast to use .
to me this "sounds" great all the programs out that help you rip off music suck ass and take more time that i am willing to spend to find songs i want. If fact id rather not steel it from the artists but at $15-20 a CD i am going to : ) I find this napster thing interesting because it is legal , artists get rewarded for their work , saves me time over other solutions and best of all costs a very nominal fee .
let ya know if i try it out ...
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N1gg3r
Total Newbie
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 14
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Posted: 06/13/05 - 21:14 Post subject:
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THE REAL QUESTION IS "HOW CAN YOUR FATHER TAKE HIS SPERM BACK?"
I AM SURE AFTER SEING WHAT A SHIT PIECE YOU TURNED OUT TO BE HE MUST BE SEARCHING FOR A WAY
JUST DIE ALREADY
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r00typooh
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5178
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted: 06/13/05 - 21:40 Post subject:
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brash- i signed up for the trial today 
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Qienn
Luke Warm
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 182
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 01:03 Post subject:
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I signed up for yahoo's music service, its like $5 bucks a month. What it does is in a month or so, if you havent connected to the service you cant play the music.
To the people that say that you don't own the music, who cares? The first day I signed up, I downloaded 10 gigs of music to my laptop and 5 gigs to my wifes MP3 player. So for $50 a year I get any song I want. $50 is what like 4 CDs? I got 4 CDs worth of music in the first 10 minutes.
I hope people don't distrubute cracks for this, for $5 bucks a month its an awesome deal for great sounding music. If there are cracks out there, then they will probably have to stop offering this.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
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Aluaeia
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 5670
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 02:20 Post subject:
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How to get unlimited music for free (or very close):
Library + cd burner
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Qienn
Luke Warm
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 182
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 08:02 Post subject:
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Thats what the DRM does, it wont let you burn it. The files are encrypted and only DRM players can read it.
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motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 09:21 Post subject:
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| Qienn wrote: | | To the people that say that you don't own the music, who cares? The first day I signed up, I downloaded 10 gigs of music to my laptop and 5 gigs to my wifes MP3 player. So for $50 a year I get any song I want. $50 is what like 4 CDs? I got 4 CDs worth of music in the first 10 minutes. |
If you can't see the inherent problems with your listening habits being at the discretion of some company then there's nothing more to discuss. But just as food for thought, what happens if this service becomes popular and they raise the monthly price to $15 or $20? Then either you pay it or all the music you've accumulated is worthless.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 11:08 Post subject:
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| motherface wrote: |
If you can't see the inherent problems with your listening habits being at the discretion of some company then there's nothing more to discuss. But just as food for thought, what happens if this service becomes popular and they raise the monthly price to $15 or $20? Then either you pay it or all the music you've accumulated is worthless. |
how are your listening habits dictated by a company ? they don't tell you what you can listen to or how . they provide a service that allows you to download most of the music you might want and at an affordable price. now you dom't own the files , you are essentionally renting them but its nice to have this as a option verses the other either costly or illegal options.
as far as your food for thought goes , they will only charge as much as people are willing to pay......If most of us think this service is worth $20 then maybe it will get that high but who knows. IMO If it is successful the prices will most likely stay the same because of competition . look as yahoos service , its already lower ...
I think what this really comes down to is individual preferences on how you listen to music. Do you care that someday you will most likely loose what you have downloaded ? Does the incredible value of unlimited music for $9.99 justify the risk of losing it all ? Do your music tastes change of the years anyways so does losing your files even matter to you anyways ? Is your MP3 collection just for random songs you may like to hear now and then and you own higher quality CD's of the music you really like ? Is it a priority for you to have a incredibly large permanent music collection than this is prolly not a option for you and you should stick to theft or the more costly options.
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motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 12:11 Post subject:
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| Brash wrote: | | how are your listening habits dictated by a company ? they don't tell you what you can listen to or how . they provide a service that allows you to download most of the music you might want and at an affordable price. now you dom't own the files , you are essentionally renting them but its nice to have this as a option verses the other either costly or illegal options. |
Easy, if they decide you can't listen to the music you've paid for, you can't listen to it. It's about as straightforward as you can get. What part don't you get? If they decide you can only listen to music between 10 and 2, that's what you can do. They hold all the cards and you hold none. Sure, I doubt they'd do that, at least until they have an established base, but the point is that you are basically giving up all your rights to use these files except as they allow, which means basically 1 PC or approved device, and only as long as you continue paying for it.
| Quote: | | as far as your food for thought goes , they will only charge as much as people are willing to pay......If most of us think this service is worth $20 then maybe it will get that high but who knows. IMO If it is successful the prices will most likely stay the same because of competition . look as yahoos service , its already lower ... |
And what if they simply end the service because it's not profitable and will never be? Then all the shit you've bought is completely worthless. Doesn't anybody remember the original Divx? Not the codec, the s****y DVD scheme that required a phone line to let you play the movies you purchased?
If you are okay with not owning the things you buy then it makes sense. Actually, I'm curious how the system works if you're allowed to put the songs onto a portable device. I'm assuming you periodically have to connect it to your computer so it can renew its license for another n days. It would suck to be on vacation and have all your stuff stop working because it hasn't spoken to the mothership for a week or something.
And for me personally, I don't see an incredible value in paying $10 a month for "unlimited music." I've bought maybe 3 CDs in the past 3-4 years due to most of today's music sucking, and of that which doesn't suck, I already have most of it.
This service makes sense to me for someone who likes a lot of today's music and whose tastes change pretty frequently, or maybe someone like a music critic who is always listening to new things, and losing older stuff isn't such a big deal. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I like to own the things I pay for.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 16:18 Post subject:
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i guess for my needs i think its a great idea . for ten bucks i can download all the songs/cds i want to hear . i have no need to build a massive collection. if i loose it all someday i could care less because i feel i got more than my moneys worth and it is extremely replaceable.
I guess when thinking about this service you need to think of it in a terms of the alternatives . one option is to steel the CD's from the store or rip it off the internet. other two legal options seem to be buying them at $15ish bucks a pop from a store or like 99 cents a song online. I think you can only really compare it with the legal options if you are tying to evaluate the service they are providing.
for my needs the cost is the major factor here . I just am not willing to spend that much on music . so the Napster option is the best well or steeling it i guess . I prolly steel it off the net more but i just find it to be more time consuming and to big a pain in the ass .
honestly i think your examples of them only allowing you to listen to it from 2-3 AM is ridiculous and you know that . why even bother saying something like that .
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 16:22 Post subject:
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to put it into perspective . tens of millions of people pay over 10 bucks a month for satellite radio just so they don't have to listen to the same old b******t on the radio and to avoid commercials (im sure a few of them have it for other reasons)
with that you never get to pick your songs , you don't get to hear the ones you want on demand yadda yadda yadda . if that service is worth 10 bucks this most certainly is .
| Quote: | | And for me personally, I don't see an incredible value in paying $10 a month for "unlimited music." I've bought maybe 3 CDs in the past 3-4 years due to most of today's music sucking, and of that which doesn't suck, I already have most of it. |
you don't get out enough if you think that out of all the music produced in the last few years there is only 3 good CD's. Maybe ya need to think about widening your horizons ?
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motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 16:26 Post subject:
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Out of curiosity, if you think it's a great price, why are you looking to circumvent the restrictions they put in place (as stated in your original post)?
| Quote: | | has to be a way to get around this ..... |
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 17:02 Post subject:
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| motherface wrote: | Out of curiosity, if you think it's a great price, why are you looking to circumvent the restrictions they put in place (as stated in your original post)?
| Quote: | | has to be a way to get around this ..... |
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umm why not ?
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motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 17:48 Post subject:
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| Brash wrote: | | If fact id rather not steel it from the artists but at $15-20 a CD i am going to : ) I find this napster thing interesting because it is legal , artists get rewarded for their work , saves me time over other solutions and best of all costs a very nominal fee . |
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Zwadrich
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 5015
Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 19:59 Post subject:
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| Owyyn wrote: |
If all else fails... line out, line in. |
Exactly how i do it. In my case i use my IRiver (mp3 player/recorder) and copy all the songs wich are "rented" or "undownloadable".
zing !
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 20:38 Post subject:
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| motherface wrote: | | Brash wrote: | | If fact id rather not steel it from the artists but at $15-20 a CD i am going to : ) I find this napster thing interesting because it is legal , artists get rewarded for their work , saves me time over other solutions and best of all costs a very nominal fee . |
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what is your point now ? bummed out that the napster idea isn't looking like such a bad idea now and looking to some other thing i may of said to attack ?
I'm asking questions because I'm curious and knowledge never hurt anyone .
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motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 20:44 Post subject:
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I'm not "bummed" and it's not looking any better than it did before your post. I quoted the part where you said you didn't want to steal from the artists, yet you were looking for ways to circumvent the system so you wouldn't have to continually pay for them. Sounds like you're either just a hypocrite, a troll, or both.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 06/14/05 - 21:24 Post subject:
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| motherface wrote: | | I'm not "bummed" and it's not looking any better than it did before your post. I quoted the part where you said you didn't want to steal from the artists, yet you were looking for ways to circumvent the system so you wouldn't have to continually pay for them. Sounds like you're either just a hypocrite, a troll, or both. |
both forsure.
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