f**k al qaida, anyone who doesn't want war can look at this
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Guest
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 Posted: 05/12/04 - 18:26 Post subject:
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| Syke wrote: | | Kbarr wrote: | | Syke wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: |
Syke, this is representative of the error in your thinking.
Regardless of whether you realize it or not, this is arrogance.
Why do you think you could succeed where the rest of the world has failed? |
If I were to take this into account, and agree with you that this is completely arrogant, then how would anyone get anywhere and how would anyone's goals be reached? I have some strange f****d up idea that somehow I can maybe help get people to realize that war isn't the only answer, maybe pull our people out of Iraq and try to mend things in a way that is not as deadly. Spare lives possibly..that's the ultimate goal I want to reach, and I'm not saying no one else that argues that war is the anwer doesn't want this either. In no way do I imply that..but without my conviction, without the proper motivation to reach this goal (you call it arrogance, I call it trying to find a way to help) how the hell would it even get done? Why do I think I could succeed? Because I have the will and the need to do it, that's why.
Why do you think I will fail?
| Quote: | | Government leaders from across the globe have been trying to find a peaceful solution to Saddam for 10 years and they have failed. All the power of all those governments could not succeed in this. The best they could come up with was a failed plan of economic sanctions and weapons inspections. All the anti-war protesters in the world are continually saying there must be a better way yet they have not offered a viable solution either. (Viable is the keyword by the way, more sanctions or inspections are not viable. They haven't worked in 10 years, why would they suddenly start working now?) |
You're absolutely right, sanctions are probably not the answer. That's already been made abundantly clear as that has failed us in the past already, and not only in this occassion. I am not saying that Sanctions are the answer, either...I'm saying, besides sanctions which anger the people and only fuel the hatred for us under Saddam's propaganda, something else could be considered. Right now I have only small, half-thought out ideas on how it could be done, but I don't have the knowledge or the power that the American government has to research the answers. One day I may be able to contribute a solid solution, but then it will be too late. ...I believe that our government leaders could have chosen to consider some other measures to take before going head-over-heels into this war on terrorism. I believe those people that you say don't have "viable" options may have had them, but were possibly dismissed, muddle out and never far reached, because there was not enough support backing it etc...
| Quote: | | As for your convictions, I'm not arguing them. You are arguing them. You'd be surprised to find out that most of us that support the war in Iraq do so only grudgingly because we realize it is the best option available to us. That was the point of my last post. Saying "I hate war" is like saying "I support clean air" or "I support equal rights". Of course, you do. I do too. 99.9% of the country does. The problem is, it's not an argument. It's a statement of belief. How does your argument help us find an answer? It doesn't. |
I'm not just saying "I hate war", and in fact it's a lot more complicated than that. I'm saying, I can help in some way shape or form if somehow a viable solution can be reached. Instead of sitting here coming to the conclusion that what we are doing is absolutely the best thing to do, I am trying myself to come up with other options, with questioning the leadership of our country. I want to do something that A LOT of Americans are too lazy to do or feel like they can't accomplish. Instead they follow the media bias, or follow their friend's/families' bias blindly and say and do as they do. Well I'm not about to sit around and let the country lead me blindly into a war that I don't feel we should be fighting yet. And f**k off for telling me that my beliefs wont find us an answer. If I didn't have this belief, then the answers I'm searching for will never ever be considered or reached. You're pretty hard pressed to shoot my ideas down, to call me arrogant...to say my way is the way to fail, since no one has done anything worthwhile with this situation. Way to be a positive thinker...
| Quote: | | In fact, it's downright insulting and, forgive me for saying this, it's a typical PC argument. The implication is that anyone who disagrees with you must support it. Do you honestly believe that most of the country would choose war over a viable, peaceful solution? Because that's what your argument implies. Stop trying to take the moral high ground and look at the problem. |
I'm being insulting? You're just deriving this out of my argument and not looking at what I'm tryinig to say. You're finding fault in what I say and are instead backing the decisions that the government has made. That's fine, you can agree with the course of action that has taken place in Iraq. But to say that me making the argument that there could have been more precautions taken to possibly avoid innocent deaths is insulting to anyone else who disagrees with me is f*****g lame.
Call it typical PC argument, call it whatever the f**k you want, but it is my belief and until proven otherwise, I will stick to it. The fact that our government is doing what it is doesn't change my mind. It is however, an influence in my decision, but I'm not letting them decide for me. The decisions may have already been made, but there is still room to learn from mistakes, and there is still room to help.
I don't give a shit how PC I sound. |
Idiot.
(I have read your other posts, so I know you are an idiot, no need to read all the above gibberish.) |
Don't respond to my posts if you have nothing to say besides, "idiot'. |
Um...
You Idiot.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 18:27 Post subject:
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| Syke wrote: | But to say that me making the argument that there could have been more precautions taken to possibly avoid innocent deaths is insulting to anyone else who disagrees with me is f*****g lame.
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The part that is insulting is your assumption that somehow you are unique for this belief. Like I said in my last post, posting beliefs that everyone believes as though you are somehow special for it creates a non-argument. Yay...you disagree with war. Yay...you wish there was a better way to do things. Yay...you wish there was a way to create fewer civilian casualties. Congratulations, you've just summarized the beliefs of NEARLY EVERY PERSON IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY! Why post it at all unless you think you're telling us something we don't already know? If you understand that we already believe the same thing, then your post is nothing other than a 'Look at me, I'm a moral person' post since it really is contributing nothing.
As for the rest of your post, your arrogance is in thinking that others have not tried just as hard to find a peaceful solution. I pointed out exactly how much effort has gone into this already in my last post. At some point, you have to recognize that perhaps this is the best way. You have to recognize that no one wants to go to war, you are not unique in this. That was the point of my last post.
My irritation with you is that you seem to believe that somehow you are doing something special by looking for a better solution. You are not, we all want a non-violent solution. We simply cannot find it and now that we are committed to this course, our efforts are put into making this one work instead of second-guessing it.
You can take offense at this if you want. You can think I'm attacking your beliefs if you want. I'm not. I haven't said a thing against them. I said your beliefs are not an argument in and of themselves. Your entire argument is baseless because all you're doing is spouting rhetorical nonsense that we all believe already. War is the best alternative that our leaders could come up with. How about if we accept that it is a less than ideal solution and devote our efforts to making it work instead of sitting around spouting cliches that only make us feel better and solve nothing?
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 18:56 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | | Syke wrote: | But to say that me making the argument that there could have been more precautions taken to possibly avoid innocent deaths is insulting to anyone else who disagrees with me is f*****g lame.
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The part that is insulting is your assumption that somehow you are unique for this belief. Like I said in my last post, posting beliefs that everyone believes as though you are somehow special for it creates a non-argument. Yay...you disagree with war. Yay...you wish there was a better way to do things. Yay...you wish there was a way to create fewer civilian casualties. Congratulations, you've just summarized the beliefs of NEARLY EVERY PERSON IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY! |
Where in my posts did I say I was unique for believing what I do? Where in my posts did I say I was special for thinking the way I do? I don't "WISH" there was a better way to do things, I KNOW there are better ways to do things. That is what we are arguing here. I don't even need to know what to do in the current situation to know that there are other options. All I know is that in the future, things can be changed.
You think there is no better way. I think there is. Why else would we be arguing about it Nuldaan??
| Quote: | | Why post it at all unless you think you're telling us something we don't already know? If you understand that we already believe the same thing, then your post is nothing other than a 'Look at me, I'm a moral person' post since it really is contributing nothing. |
No, I believe there "IS" something we can do...you only "WISH" there was something else we can do. Do you understand the difference between the two? You believe in the current administration, therefore you only "wish" because you feel that there is no other option. I "know" that there is and I do not agree with the current administration....I will toil until I find an answer to these problems. Does that make me special? No. Stop assuming I'm only typing this to feel "special." That is more insulting than anything I've said, or you think I've implied in my posts.
| Quote: | | As for the rest of your post, your arrogance is in thinking that others have not tried just as hard to find a peaceful solution. I pointed out exactly how much effort has gone into this already in my last post. At some point, you have to recognize that perhaps this is the best way. You have to recognize that no one wants to go to war, you are not unique in this. That was the point of my last post. |
I'm not claiming to be unique, I'm not claiming to be the only one that's going against this, or has tried to solve this situation without bloodshed. I am though, obviously in the minority in my beliefs that our administration made some wrong decisions.. once again, THAT is what we are arguing. Not the fact that "Im a peaceful person and you're not woo woo" ...f**k you for trying to point this at me.
| Quote: | | My irritation with you is that you seem to believe that somehow you are doing something special by looking for a better solution. You are not, we all want a non-violent solution. We simply cannot find it and now that we are committed to this course, our efforts are put into making this one work instead of second-guessing it. |
That's the problem I'm having with the whole situation....if we made the wrong decisions, why do we continue to make the wrong decision? Why the hell do you keep telling me I think I'm special...I think I am entitled to my beliefs and entitled to express them. That is what this message board is for..expressing opinions, feelings, beliefs...I don't think I'm special for doing any of these things, I don't understand why you get the impression that I am trying to be something special.
| Quote: | | You can take offense at this if you want. You can think I'm attacking your beliefs if you want. I'm not. I haven't said a thing against them. I said your beliefs are not an argument in and of themselves. Your entire argument is baseless because all you're doing is spouting rhetorical nonsense that we all believe already. |
If you honestly believed what I believe, then you would have agreed with me in this post instead of telling me that my beliefs are wrong, or that they are useless. I believe there are other options. YOU DON'T. Why do you keep pointing this at me as if I'm just trying to pass this off as a rhetorical statement that "I'm a peaceful person and you're not cuz you agree with Bush woo woo!"
| Quote: | | War is the best alternative that our leaders could come up with. How about if we accept that it is a less than ideal solution and devote our efforts to making it work instead of sitting around spouting cliches that only make us feel better and solve nothing? |
What in the f**k....Why do we have to accept a less than ideal solution? Why can't we find one that is more ideal? I cannot accept it. That is why I have such a problem, and that is why I believe what I do, and that is why I believe there is room for change in the future.
You keep telling me that I need to realize that war may just possibly be the best answer, and I have realized that. Possibly. But possibly really isn't good enough for me. Understand?
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Guest
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 19:04 Post subject:
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| Syke wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: | | Syke wrote: | But to say that me making the argument that there could have been more precautions taken to possibly avoid innocent deaths is insulting to anyone else who disagrees with me is f*****g lame.
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The part that is insulting is your assumption that somehow you are unique for this belief. Like I said in my last post, posting beliefs that everyone believes as though you are somehow special for it creates a non-argument. Yay...you disagree with war. Yay...you wish there was a better way to do things. Yay...you wish there was a way to create fewer civilian casualties. Congratulations, you've just summarized the beliefs of NEARLY EVERY PERSON IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY! |
Where in my posts did I say I was unique for believing what I do? Where in my posts did I say I was special for thinking the way I do? I don't "WISH" there was a better way to do things, I KNOW there are better ways to do things. That is what we are arguing here. I don't even need to know what to do in the current situation to know that there are other options. All I know is that in the future, things can be changed.
You think there is no better way. I think there is. Why else would we be arguing about it Nuldaan??
| Quote: | | Why post it at all unless you think you're telling us something we don't already know? If you understand that we already believe the same thing, then your post is nothing other than a 'Look at me, I'm a moral person' post since it really is contributing nothing. |
No, I believe there "IS" something we can do...you only "WISH" there was something else we can do. Do you understand the difference between the two? You believe in the current administration, therefore you only "wish" because you feel that there is no other option. I "know" that there is and I do not agree with the current administration....I will toil until I find an answer to these problems. Does that make me special? No. Stop assuming I'm only typing this to feel "special." That is more insulting than anything I've said, or you think I've implied in my posts.
| Quote: | | As for the rest of your post, your arrogance is in thinking that others have not tried just as hard to find a peaceful solution. I pointed out exactly how much effort has gone into this already in my last post. At some point, you have to recognize that perhaps this is the best way. You have to recognize that no one wants to go to war, you are not unique in this. That was the point of my last post. |
I'm not claiming to be unique, I'm not claiming to be the only one that's going against this, or has tried to solve this situation without bloodshed. I am though, obviously in the minority in my beliefs that our administration made some wrong decisions.. once again, THAT is what we are arguing. Not the fact that "Im a peaceful person and you're not woo woo" ...f**k you for trying to point this at me.
| Quote: | | My irritation with you is that you seem to believe that somehow you are doing something special by looking for a better solution. You are not, we all want a non-violent solution. We simply cannot find it and now that we are committed to this course, our efforts are put into making this one work instead of second-guessing it. |
That's the problem I'm having with the whole situation....if we made the wrong decisions, why do we continue to make the wrong decision? Why the hell do you keep telling me I think I'm special...I think I am entitled to my beliefs and entitled to express them. That is what this message board is for..expressing opinions, feelings, beliefs...I don't think I'm special for doing any of these things, I don't understand why you get the impression that I am trying to be something special.
| Quote: | | You can take offense at this if you want. You can think I'm attacking your beliefs if you want. I'm not. I haven't said a thing against them. I said your beliefs are not an argument in and of themselves. Your entire argument is baseless because all you're doing is spouting rhetorical nonsense that we all believe already. |
If you honestly believed what I believe, then you would have agreed with me in this post instead of telling me that my beliefs are wrong, or that they are useless. I believe there are other options. YOU DON'T. Why do you keep pointing this at me as if I'm just trying to pass this off as a rhetorical statement that "I'm a peaceful person and you're not cuz you agree with Bush woo woo!"
| Quote: | | War is the best alternative that our leaders could come up with. How about if we accept that it is a less than ideal solution and devote our efforts to making it work instead of sitting around spouting cliches that only make us feel better and solve nothing? |
What in the f**k....Why do we have to accept a less than ideal solution? Why can't we find one that is more ideal? I cannot accept it. That is why I have such a problem, and that is why I believe what I do, and that is why I believe there is room for change in the future.
You keep telling me that I need to realize that war may just possibly be the best answer, and I have realized that. Possibly. But possibly really isn't good enough for me. Understand? |
Idiot.
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 19:09 Post subject:
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Kbarr make an effort damnit and maker a post with at least 2 words.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 19:12 Post subject:
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And another thing Nuldaan...I never personally comitted to this course. You have.
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Guest
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 19:13 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: | | Kbarr make an effort damnit and maker a post with at least 2 words. |
I hope you and all related to you, get stomach cancer and die a slow painful death.
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 19:16 Post subject:
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| Kbarr wrote: | | Maelstrom wrote: | | Kbarr make an effort damnit and maker a post with at least 2 words. |
I hope you and all related to you, get stomach cancer and die a slow painful death. |
See it wasn't that hard now try to spread some love around you Kbarry.
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Guest
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 19:21 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: | | Kbarr wrote: | | Maelstrom wrote: | | Kbarr make an effort damnit and maker a post with at least 2 words. |
I hope you and all related to you, get stomach cancer and die a slow painful death. |
See it wasn't that hard now try to spread some love around you Kbarry. |
Your child included.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 19:25 Post subject:
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| Syke wrote: | | And another thing Nuldaan...I never personally comitted to this course. You have. |
Syke, this is just going in circles. You aren't even seeing what I'm saying anymore. You're just being insulted because you think I'm assaulting your values.
I haven't said a thing about your values other than the fact that they aren't unique. If you realize this, then there is no reason to post them. If you want a discussion, you don't start one by stating things that everyone already agrees upon over and over.
Look at all your arguments. Even your latest one "I know there is a better way" is another in a long string of rhetorical statements. I'm sure there is one too...we (both nationally and internationally) failed to find it this time. Why even post this? All you're doing is stating commonly held beliefs. You aren't contributing anything to our (mine and your) disussion because I'm not getting anything from your posts other than canned answers that restate my own and everyone else's beliefs.
We, as a nation, are committed to this course. The time for looking for a better answer is over and the time to make this one work is at hand. If you want to sit on the fence and keep looking for a better answer, go ahead and do so. Don't fool yourself though, you are just sitting on the fence and criticizing those who acted.
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Azmann
Luke Warm
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 101
Location: Chicago
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 19:57 Post subject:
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Ok .. I enjoy reading this board .. I dont post much , cause , id rather read em .. 
I will, however, speak on this front. I served in the Navy for 5 years. I was in during the first Gulf war. Saddam is no different than A Hitler .. or infact , all the other barbaric rulers of ancient history.
During the first attack on Bagdad . He lined up civilians around every military instaltion, government house or place of importance. He was using HIS people as a shield. What kind of person would do something like that .
Saddam needed to be ousted from government long ago. And, yes, I thing our government should have launched the bunker buster 12 years ago when we new his location . But, we didnt . People like Skye, wanted us to try a diplomatic solution to the matter, maybe he would step down, or his people rise up in rebellion and hang is crimson horned sac from one of his statues.
Well, as we see, it didnt work. Infact, he just kept killing more and more people. HIS people. So everyone was scared and dared not to rebel against the "monster".
12-13 years later...... Well its time for Sadaam to go .. Well, lets get busy. BOOM ...BOOM .... BOOM .. Yes, innocent people will die. So did innocent people on 9/11. So did people in the countles wars throughout the ages. Its called WAR.. When it comes to a point of war . There is no longer a feasible solution or compromise. Time to put up your dukes and fight it out.
Yes, I agree, War sucks.. People shouldnt have to die for ones political gain. But it is reality. This is a war with no compromise, no solution, no rationality. War is the necessary evil. Let it be. What was done is done.
As for the beheading , I blame the fool who had the "get rich quick " idea to sell the pictures to the media. And dont be fooled .. that person is out there.. He should be shot for treason. Yes, that treatment should have never been commited. It was , and it should have stayed a sensitve document to military eyes only. If those pictures didnt come out .. this whole situation could have been avoided.
For the c**k-sucking cowards that hid behind a veil of shame . I say to you .. watch out .. This death will be avenged. This country will not stand to see his fellow citizen , decapitated in such a gruesome, inhumane manner .
The last thing I want to say. Please, support our troops. They are human just like us . They arent political, they are just protecting the future for our chidren and our childrens children. I was PROUD to serve my country as did my father and his father. When you rise up against the military and war. It makes them feel that we arent protecting our countries intrest and we are just murderers . The are making the ultimate sacrifice for you. The ones that hide behind walls of steel , yelling insults and running back behind the wall .
And as I belive , If you dont like this fine country, Leave. Im sure somewhere else will take ya . How about Iraq .. they are short a few taxpayers. They will be glad to have ya
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 20:23 Post subject:
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| Azmann wrote: | Ok .. I enjoy reading this board .. I dont post much , cause , id rather read em ..
I will, however, speak on this front. I served in the Navy for 5 years. I was in during the first Gulf war. Saddam is no different than A Hitler .. or infact , all the other barbaric rulers of ancient history.
During the first attack on Bagdad . He lined up civilians around every military instaltion, government house or place of importance. He was using HIS people as a shield. What kind of person would do something like that .
Saddam needed to be ousted from government long ago. And, yes, I thing our government should have launched the bunker buster 12 years ago when we new his location . But, we didnt . People like Skye, wanted us to try a diplomatic solution to the matter, maybe he would step down, or his people rise up in rebellion and hang is crimson horned sac from one of his statues.
Well, as we see, it didnt work. Infact, he just kept killing more and more people. HIS people. So everyone was scared and dared not to rebel against the "monster".
12-13 years later...... Well its time for Sadaam to go .. Well, lets get busy. BOOM ...BOOM .... BOOM .. Yes, innocent people will die. So did innocent people on 9/11. So did people in the countles wars throughout the ages. Its called WAR.. When it comes to a point of war . There is no longer a feasible solution or compromise. Time to put up your dukes and fight it out.
Yes, I agree, War sucks.. People shouldnt have to die for ones political gain. But it is reality. This is a war with no compromise, no solution, no rationality. War is the necessary evil. Let it be. What was done is done.
As for the beheading , I blame the fool who had the "get rich quick " idea to sell the pictures to the media. And dont be fooled .. that person is out there.. He should be shot for treason. Yes, that treatment should have never been commited. It was , and it should have stayed a sensitve document to military eyes only. If those pictures didnt come out .. this whole situation could have been avoided.
For the c**k-sucking cowards that hid behind a veil of shame . I say to you .. watch out .. This death will be avenged. This country will not stand to see his fellow citizen , decapitated in such a gruesome, inhumane manner .
The last thing I want to say. Please, support our troops. They are human just like us . They arent political, they are just protecting the future for our chidren and our childrens children. I was PROUD to serve my country as did my father and his father. When you rise up against the military and war. It makes them feel that we arent protecting our countries intrest and we are just murderers . The are making the ultimate sacrifice for you. The ones that hide behind walls of steel , yelling insults and running back behind the wall .
And as I belive , If you dont like this fine country, Leave. Im sure somewhere else will take ya . How about Iraq .. they are short a few taxpayers. They will be glad to have ya |
You know..millions of religious sickos live in Iraq...and with Bush's current plans the conflits could go on for decades cause there will always be new terrorists ready to kill American soldiers in place.
So unless a major turn in like a huge genocide the current conflits will never be solved so all the current work being done is a total waste.
You cannot change people, much less religious fanatic it's impossible. hell it's now proven that you cannot change child f****r or hard drunk people they will stay that way all their life, so imagine a religious sicko.
Saddam neede dto be taken out no doubt...but how are the US going to secure the country now? more and more soldiers will die every day until Bush fanily wake up.
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Azmann
Luke Warm
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 101
Location: Chicago
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 20:38 Post subject:
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I agree .. They wont change, now ... there are plenty of Little Sadaams waiting to take his place all lined up .. All in the name of Allah.
I do beleive, that it will end .. How long .. I have no idea .. but it will .. once the people get tired of being pulled apart from both sides .. But for now, Its going to be a nasty f****d up war.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 20:44 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: | You know..millions of religious sickos live in Iraq...and with Bush's current plans the conflits could go on for decades cause there will always be new terrorists ready to kill American soldiers in place.
So unless a major turn in like a huge genocide the current conflits will never be solved so all the current work being done is a total waste.
You cannot change people, much less religious fanatic it's impossible. hell it's now proven that you cannot change child f****r or hard drunk people they will stay that way all their life, so imagine a religious sicko.
Saddam neede dto be taken out no doubt...but how are the US going to secure the country now? more and more soldiers will die every day until Bush fanily wake up. |
Way to go on not understanding anything that is going on in Iraq, Mael.
We used our military to remove Saddam from power. Now we're there trying to establish an Iraqi government. That is how we're going to secure their country.
No one is trying to convert fanatics. That's why our military is there. We shoot them, that's their cure. We're trying to create an environment that doesn't foster fanatics.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 20:53 Post subject:
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Maelstrom's posts make me think all of Canada is like a Mississippi trailer park, where the only newspaper they trust for their news is the National Enquirer, and where fine wine comes in aluminum cans.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 20:54 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | Maelstrom's posts make me think all of Canada is like a Mississippi trailer park, where the only newspaper they trust for their news is the National Enquirer, and where fine wine comes in aluminum cans. |
Fine wine comes in boxes.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 21:36 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | | Syke wrote: | | And another thing Nuldaan...I never personally comitted to this course. You have. |
Syke, this is just going in circles. You aren't even seeing what I'm saying anymore. You're just being insulted because you think I'm assaulting your values.
I haven't said a thing about your values other than the fact that they aren't unique. If you realize this, then there is no reason to post them. If you want a discussion, you don't start one by stating things that everyone already agrees upon over and over.
Look at all your arguments. Even your latest one "I know there is a better way" is another in a long string of rhetorical statements. I'm sure there is one too...we (both nationally and internationally) failed to find it this time. Why even post this? All you're doing is stating commonly held beliefs. You aren't contributing anything to our (mine and your) disussion because I'm not getting anything from your posts other than canned answers that restate my own and everyone else's beliefs.
We, as a nation, are committed to this course. The time for looking for a better answer is over and the time to make this one work is at hand. If you want to sit on the fence and keep looking for a better answer, go ahead and do so. Don't fool yourself though, you are just sitting on the fence and criticizing those who acted. |
That may be what I'm doing with you now, critisizing those who acted, since this is a discussion about that very thing (what else do you expect me to say?), but that is not what I will be doing in the future.
And when you say, "we failed to find it this time," doesn't that mean that you believe that there really is no other option left?
If you say that the belief I've been typing to you about in the last few posts is so common, then why don't you believe it yourself? Or did you just accidentally contradict yourself inadvertantly?
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 23:13 Post subject:
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| Syke wrote: | That may be what I'm doing with you now, critisizing those who acted, since this is a discussion about that very thing (what else do you expect me to say?), but that is not what I will be doing in the future.
And when you say, "we failed to find it this time," doesn't that mean that you believe that there really is no other option left?
If you say that the belief I've been typing to you about in the last few posts is so common, then why don't you believe it yourself? Or did you just accidentally contradict yourself inadvertantly? |
I have said, multiple times now, that nearly everyone would prefer to avoid war if possible. You can read "if possible" as "if we can find a way to avoid it." This is the shared belief. I have no idea why you continue to harp on this point.
The point of contention is that I'm saying we failed to find it this time. In the future, we should continue to look for better ways to resolve problems. In the present, our nation is committed to the war in Iraq so we should be focussing our energies on accomplishing our goals rather than lamenting the fact that we were unable to find a peaceful solution.
You insist on criticizing the fact that we went to war under the pretext that we should have been able to find a way to avoid it. No one disagrees with this. That's why you have no argument. You aren't stating anything that everyone else doesn't already believe. Your insistence upon stating that I don't believe it only proves that you aren't reading my posts. That has been central to my argument from the very beginning.
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mixelplux
Luke Warm
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 344
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Posted: 05/12/04 - 23:26 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | | Frax wrote: | | Maelstrom's posts make me think all of Canada is like a Mississippi trailer park, where the only newspaper they trust for their news is the National Enquirer, and where fine wine comes in aluminum cans. |
Fine wine comes in boxes. |
You both err, they come in 5 gallon plastic canisters.
Mix
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 00:45 Post subject:
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| mixelplux wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: | | Frax wrote: | | Maelstrom's posts make me think all of Canada is like a Mississippi trailer park, where the only newspaper they trust for their news is the National Enquirer, and where fine wine comes in aluminum cans. |
Fine wine comes in boxes. |
You both err, they come in 5 gallon plastic canisters.
Mix |
haha. Hey Mix, how's Vegas treating you?
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 13:07 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: |
You insist on criticizing the fact that we went to war under the pretext that we should have been able to find a way to avoid it. No one disagrees with this. That's why you have no argument. You aren't stating anything that everyone else doesn't already believe. |
If this is so, if "no one disagrees with this", then why are we at war?
..*Knock knock*......
"Who's there!?"
"The other side of the argument."
I'm saying there still is a chance to help the situation. That is my argument. You're saying my argument is not an argument because we are already at war and we should focus on supporting the war.
Why support the war, if I think that it's detrimental to the cause? Why do you insist that this is not an argument? ...I really don't understand..
EDIT: And better yet, why support it reluctantly if I know there could have been other measures taken to help avoid the situation we are currently in?
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mixelplux
Luke Warm
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 344
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 13:55 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | | mixelplux wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: | | Frax wrote: | | Maelstrom's posts make me think all of Canada is like a Mississippi trailer park, where the only newspaper they trust for their news is the National Enquirer, and where fine wine comes in aluminum cans. |
Fine wine comes in boxes. |
You both err, they come in 5 gallon plastic canisters.
Mix |
haha. Hey Mix, how's Vegas treating you? |
Good, glad school is out for the summer. Nother year so left then but I need to decide if I want to go for my Masters. Might be moving into a new house with a friend soon way on other side, which would be nice to get out of this shithole apartment. Otherwise, having fun. When u guys coming out again, and oh! how is John doing?
Mix
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Abi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 1747
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 14:31 Post subject:
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CHEER azman's post
Well said bro.. Exactly how I feel.
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Abi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 1747
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 15:09 Post subject:
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| Syke wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: |
You insist on criticizing the fact that we went to war under the pretext that we should have been able to find a way to avoid it. No one disagrees with this. That's why you have no argument. You aren't stating anything that everyone else doesn't already believe. |
If this is so, if "no one disagrees with this", then why are we at war?
..*Knock knock*......
"Who's there!?"
"The other side of the argument."
I'm saying there still is a chance to help the situation. That is my argument. You're saying my argument is not an argument because we are already at war and we should focus on supporting the war.
Why support the war, if I think that it's detrimental to the cause? Why do you insist that this is not an argument? ...I really don't understand..
EDIT: And better yet, why support it reluctantly if I know there could have been other measures taken to help avoid the situation we are currently in? |
If you spill a glass of milk do you just stand there and stare at it, trying to figure out what you could have done different to NOT make the milk spill or do you grab a paper towel and wipe it up?
Give me a break man.. you can't be THAT stupid...
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kemble
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 1909
Location: MI
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 15:14 Post subject:
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Mix's Apartment is in the middle of the Vegas ghetto.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 15:39 Post subject:
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| Abi wrote: | | Syke wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: |
You insist on criticizing the fact that we went to war under the pretext that we should have been able to find a way to avoid it. No one disagrees with this. That's why you have no argument. You aren't stating anything that everyone else doesn't already believe. |
If this is so, if "no one disagrees with this", then why are we at war?
..*Knock knock*......
"Who's there!?"
"The other side of the argument."
I'm saying there still is a chance to help the situation. That is my argument. You're saying my argument is not an argument because we are already at war and we should focus on supporting the war.
Why support the war, if I think that it's detrimental to the cause? Why do you insist that this is not an argument? ...I really don't understand..
EDIT: And better yet, why support it reluctantly if I know there could have been other measures taken to help avoid the situation we are currently in? |
If you spill a glass of milk do you just stand there and stare at it, trying to figure out what you could have done different to NOT make the milk spill or do you grab a paper towel and wipe it up?
Give me a break man.. you can't be THAT stupid... |
No, you whipe it up. And there are several different products out there to help you on your quest to clean the mess, not just one.
That's the point I'm getting at. You're right, I'm not that stupid.
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Guest
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 15:41 Post subject:
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| Syke wrote: | | I'm not that stupid. |
Idiot.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 15:42 Post subject:
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| Kbarr wrote: | | Syke wrote: | | I'm not that stupid. |
Idiot. |
Give up already. Die.
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Guest
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 15:43 Post subject:
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| Syke wrote: | | Kbarr wrote: | | Syke wrote: | | I'm not that stupid. |
Idiot. |
Give up already. Die. |
No.
I'm to busy to die.
You idiot.
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Zoggs
Rookie
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 84
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 15:52 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | Maelstrom's posts make me think all of Canada is like a Mississippi trailer park, where the only newspaper they trust for their news is the National Enquirer, and where fine wine comes in aluminum cans. |
replace the word Canada with Quebec and i think your onto something!
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