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KKuhr
Luke Warm
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 124
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Kin
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 388
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 Posted: 08/19/05 - 08:09 Post subject:
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Hey, if it's my company I can hire and fire whoever the hell I want to.
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kemble
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 1909
Location: MI
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 08:18 Post subject:
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You can have an employment agreement (contract) even in an 'at will' state. You should have negotiated a better deal if you are worried or upset.
You can get fired if your boss doesn't like the color of your shirt. I don't understand why people are upset about this smoking thing. Its nothing new, someone just decided to exercise their rights as an employer.
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Kamikaze_Roadkill
Guest
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 11:20 Post subject:
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"What? I'm not being hired because I have a habit that has no effect on my work or how many (insert product here) I can produce?"
I smoke, we have breaks every 2 hours. While they're all in the break rooms I'm outside relaxing smoking a cigarette. Theres nothing wrong with it, I actually enjoy it. Yes, its up to the employer, but I dont see a problem with it if it has 0 (zero) impact with your job performace. Who cares if a smoker spends more money keeping the habit up, really.
I know its coming, so for the hippie thats going to tell me to quit and stop polluting, f**k you.
(edit) I'm taking this post as another "you should quit" scenario.
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goatface
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1354
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 11:32 Post subject:
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| Kamikaze_Roadkill wrote: | Yes, its up to the employer, but I dont see a problem with it if it has 0 (zero) impact with your job performace. Who cares if a smoker spends more money keeping the habit up, really.
. |
i can understand it when it comes to the bottomline and
the company insurance agent say, you can save xx thousands
a year if you go smoke free.
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goatface
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1354
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 11:38 Post subject:
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epp double post
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 11:41 Post subject:
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It boils down to the fact that it's a free country. You can quit for any reason you want, so why shouldn't they be able to fire you for any reason they want?
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 11:42 Post subject:
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"I'm going to become a financial liability to my company due to increased sick days, doctor visits and health care insurance costs. Futhermore, I am aware that smoking cuts oxygen flow to my brain, literally making me more dumb with every drag. But none of this affects my job performance."
Nice 1, Kamikaze
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KKuhr
Luke Warm
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 124
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 11:43 Post subject:
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Not meant to tell you that you should quit. I smoke again, too. Some people go outside every hour on the hour to smoke and no one every says shit. I go out anywhere between 2 to 4 times a day depending on my workload. I don't abuse it, although some do. I just think people are making up excuses to enforce "at will" employment so they can fire anyone anytime they want.
Gay.
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Pags
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3260
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 11:54 Post subject:
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At every job I've ever had, smokers would get multiple breaks a day so they can go smoke. While they're smoking, guess who picks up their slack? the non-smokers! Even at jobs where non-smokers got a break, it never lasted as long or as often as going to smoke a cig ;p
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Owyyn
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2900
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 12:03 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | "I'm going to become a financial liability to my company due to increased sick days, doctor visits and health care insurance costs. Futhermore, I am aware that smoking cuts oxygen flow to my brain, literally making me more dumb with every drag. But none of this affects my job performance."
Nice 1, Kamikaze |
I'm not a smoker, but I'm against companies telling you what you can and can't do even when you are not at work. Especially with something that is otherwise legal. Are we going to be required to wear formal attire anywhere we go when not on the clock because they want us to keep a good image outside the office?
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Zab
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 1222
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 12:37 Post subject:
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I was a smoker. After i quit smoking my work quality went up and the time i spent after hours at work went way down. The 10-15 minute breaks i would take during the day would add up to hours of work after hours. If i am an employer and i feel that you cannot do a job as well as it needs to be done because you smoke then i say quit or get lost. I want all my workers 100% at all times possible ( obviously you cant help if you get sick etc etc ).
The military is going the way of saying you cannot smoke while in uniform. You cannot smoke while in basic training and in the last year ( i dont remember exactly but in that time frame ) they made it against the rules to smoke while in uniform or on base while in Tech School ( or AIT for your army folks out there ). This is in effect at a few bases right now.
EDIT: After reading this i saw that most folks dont know about AF Tech school. To ease the panic of going from a strict regimen like Basic ( HAHA ) to a more relaxed atmosphere the AF has set up a series of " Phases " for new troops to go thru. These have certain restrictions such as uniform that can be worn, when you can smoke/drink, curfew and all that. Smoking isnt allowed until you are in phase three roughly 6 weeks after you arrive at tech school. So there is a 12 week period that folks are not allowed to smoke. They inevitably do but the AF is trying to stop it.
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motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 12:53 Post subject:
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Chain smokers stink and it's generally unpleasant to work in close proximity to them. Employers should be able to choose who works for them based on almost any criteria. Same with customers or clients. If I'm a restaurant owner I should be able to decide whether to allow smoking, disallow smoking, or disallow non-smoking... it's my f*****g business, after all.
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16395
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 13:36 Post subject:
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kamikaze pwnt.
someday smoking will be laughed at by the entire populace.
They did WHAT to themselves??
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Shaym
Rookie
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 91
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 13:44 Post subject:
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so.. I wonder if it would be legal to open a business and hire strictly smokers and fire them if they find out you don't smoke and lied on your app? Or would it be legal to hire and fire based on BMI (other than military, fire fighters and police)? I know they can hire based on strength, ie during the physicals they put you thru to get hired at some factories you must be able to lift x repeatedly and they watch your posture and lift to be sure you aren't going to go in and throw your back out the first week and milk their s&a.
I want a completely vegan smoker staff! 
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16395
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 13:56 Post subject:
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good luck1!
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 14:07 Post subject:
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Other than ****, race, age, religion, national origin/ethnicity, and disability, you can hire or fire people based on any criteria you like, no matter how peculiar, as long as it doesn't violate any specific laws (like not firing whistle blowers) or union agreements. You can absolutely hire or fire anyone based on what they do on their personal time, and it doesn't have to be justified. You don't have to say "smoking costs the company more money"; simply "I don't like smokers" is fine.
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16395
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 14:23 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | | Other than ****, race, age, religion, national origin/ethnicity, and disability, you can hire or fire people based on any criteria you like, no matter how peculiar, as long as it doesn't violate any specific laws (like not firing whistle blowers) or union agreements. You can absolutely hire or fire anyone based on what they do on their personal time, and it doesn't have to be justified. You don't have to say "smoking costs the company more money"; simply "I don't like smokers" is fine. |
almost.
i think firing someone because they are block might not be in your best interest though.
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Devook
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 2373
Location: Ypsilanti or Troy, MI
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 14:30 Post subject:
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| Shaym wrote: | so.. I wonder if it would be legal to open a business and hire strictly smokers and fire them if they find out you don't smoke and lied on your app? Or would it be legal to hire and fire based on BMI (other than military, fire fighters and police)? I know they can hire based on strength, ie during the physicals they put you thru to get hired at some factories you must be able to lift x repeatedly and they watch your posture and lift to be sure you aren't going to go in and throw your back out the first week and milk their s&a.
I want a completely vegan smoker staff! |
Yeah, like you know how they can fire you if you start killing people? I wonder if it would be legal to hire ONLY people that have committed homicide. That's a good argument, right?
Last edited by Devook on 08/19/05 - 14:37; edited 1 time in total
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Owyyn
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2900
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 14:32 Post subject:
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| Devook wrote: | | Shaym wrote: | so.. I wonder if it would be legal to open a business and hire strictly smokers and fire them if they find out you don't smoke and lied on your app? Or would it be legal to hire and fire based on BMI (other than military, fire fighters and police)? I know they can hire based on strength, ie during the physicals they put you thru to get hired at some factories you must be able to lift x repeatedly and they watch your posture and lift to be sure you aren't going to go in and throw your back out the first week and milk their s&a.
I want a completely vegan smoker staff! |
Yeah, like you know how they can fire you if you start killing people? I wonder if it would be legal to hire ONLY people that have committed homocide. That's a good argument, right? |
Homocide?
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Devook
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 2373
Location: Ypsilanti or Troy, MI
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 14:37 Post subject:
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| Owyyn wrote: | | Devook wrote: | | Shaym wrote: | so.. I wonder if it would be legal to open a business and hire strictly smokers and fire them if they find out you don't smoke and lied on your app? Or would it be legal to hire and fire based on BMI (other than military, fire fighters and police)? I know they can hire based on strength, ie during the physicals they put you thru to get hired at some factories you must be able to lift x repeatedly and they watch your posture and lift to be sure you aren't going to go in and throw your back out the first week and milk their s&a.
I want a completely vegan smoker staff! |
Yeah, like you know how they can fire you if you start killing people? I wonder if it would be legal to hire ONLY people that have committed homocide. That's a good argument, right? |
Homocide? |
Yeah you know, like the killing of homos?
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Shaym
Rookie
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 91
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 15:06 Post subject:
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Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it the fed actually gives ?k a year incenives to employers who hire felons... was why they ask if you have commited one and if so what... guess they would have to be quite picky, however, when they do hire one depending on the business... ie no necrofellas at a morgue , no white collar theives dealing w money, no arsonists at the gas station.
You would have to be right tho that you can hire whomever you wish... would just be odd if someone decided to do it on really whacked out criteria... I would love to hire you Jones, but on you app under hobbies it doesn't list 4 wheeling or appreciating fine arts, and here at Burger King we find that both are a must.
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Devook
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 2373
Location: Ypsilanti or Troy, MI
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 16:17 Post subject:
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| Shaym wrote: | Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it the fed actually gives ?k a year incenives to employers who hire felons... was why they ask if you have commited one and if so what... guess they would have to be quite picky, however, when they do hire one depending on the business... ie no necrofellas at a morgue , no white collar theives dealing w money, no arsonists at the gas station.
You would have to be right tho that you can hire whomever you wish... would just be odd if someone decided to do it on really whacked out criteria... I would love to hire you Jones, but on you app under hobbies it doesn't list 4 wheeling or appreciating fine arts, and here at Burger King we find that both are a must. |
What are you rambling about?
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Bait Masterson
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3842
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 16:22 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | "I'm going to become a financial liability to my company due to increased sick days, doctor visits and health care insurance costs. Futhermore, I am aware that smoking cuts oxygen flow to my brain, literally making me more dumb with every drag. But none of this affects my job performance."
Nice 1, Kamikaze |
I as an employer will require you to take the bus to work. Car accidents are a leading cause of death and injury in America and I can save large amounts of money on insurance if I limit your freedom to travel.
I can understand a employer not wanting you to smoke on the premises but for a company to Fire me based on my private life, is completly ridiculous.
As for getting dumb with every drag, every breath you take while you are driving on the freeway is filled with more harmful pollutants than any second hand smoke you may get from my filthy habit.
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kemble
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 1909
Location: MI
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 16:24 Post subject:
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| Shaym wrote: | Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it the fed actually gives ?k a year incenives to employers who hire felons... was why they ask if you have commited one and if so what... guess they would have to be quite picky, however, when they do hire one depending on the business... ie no necrofellas at a morgue , no white collar theives dealing w money, no arsonists at the gas station.
You would have to be right tho that you can hire whomever you wish... would just be odd if someone decided to do it on really whacked out criteria... I would love to hire you Jones, but on you app under hobbies it doesn't list 4 wheeling or appreciating fine arts, and here at Burger King we find that both are a must. |
LOL first of all, they ask if you have been CONVICTED of a felony not if you have committed one 
Second, they don't put that question there to detrmine if they get aid $ if they hire you (wtf?). Its on there because they want to know if you are a felon before they hire your degenerate ass.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 20:40 Post subject:
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Smoking most certainly compromises productivity where I work. My cube is right by the door leading outside to our 'designated smoking area,' and I see the same idiots walking in and out all day long. An hour of their day must be wasted smoking, at least.
(And those people stink too... do smokers just not care about smelling like shit???)
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Kamikaze_Roadkill
Guest
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 23:31 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | Smoking most certainly compromises productivity where I work. My cube is right by the door leading outside to our 'designated smoking area,' and I see the same idiots walking in and out all day long. An hour of their day must be wasted smoking, at least.
(And those people stink too... do smokers just not care about smelling like shit???) |
If I worked inside I would quit for the sake of other people, but, I don't (80% of the time). Besides, our smoke pit is about 100-110ft outside away from the building.
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Devook
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 2373
Location: Ypsilanti or Troy, MI
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 23:41 Post subject:
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| Kamikaze_Roadkill wrote: | | Akronn wrote: | Smoking most certainly compromises productivity where I work. My cube is right by the door leading outside to our 'designated smoking area,' and I see the same idiots walking in and out all day long. An hour of their day must be wasted smoking, at least.
(And those people stink too... do smokers just not care about smelling like shit???) |
If I worked inside I would quit for the sake of other people, but, I don't (80% of the time). Besides, our smoke pit is about 100-110ft outside away from the building. |
So... I noticed you didn't address the part where you smell like ass.
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Pags
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3260
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 23:43 Post subject:
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| Devook wrote: | | Kamikaze_Roadkill wrote: | | Akronn wrote: | Smoking most certainly compromises productivity where I work. My cube is right by the door leading outside to our 'designated smoking area,' and I see the same idiots walking in and out all day long. An hour of their day must be wasted smoking, at least.
(And those people stink too... do smokers just not care about smelling like shit???) |
If I worked inside I would quit for the sake of other people, but, I don't (80% of the time). Besides, our smoke pit is about 100-110ft outside away from the building. |
So... I noticed you didn't address the part where you smell like ass. |
Yes, he did, with the very first sentence in fact.
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Devook
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 2373
Location: Ypsilanti or Troy, MI
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Posted: 08/19/05 - 23:44 Post subject:
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| Pags wrote: | | Devook wrote: | | Kamikaze_Roadkill wrote: | | Akronn wrote: | Smoking most certainly compromises productivity where I work. My cube is right by the door leading outside to our 'designated smoking area,' and I see the same idiots walking in and out all day long. An hour of their day must be wasted smoking, at least.
(And those people stink too... do smokers just not care about smelling like shit???) |
If I worked inside I would quit for the sake of other people, but, I don't (80% of the time). Besides, our smoke pit is about 100-110ft outside away from the building. |
So... I noticed you didn't address the part where you smell like ass. |
Yes, he did, with the very first sentence in fact. |
If you smell like ass inside, you smell like ass outside too. Ever stood next to a fat person at a bus stop during summer?
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