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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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 Posted: 03/31/05 - 13:59 Post subject: bored with endgame WOW?
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I still skim this forum for drama posts and entertainment, even though I don't play, and I notice a common theme. Almost everyone b*****s about being bored once you hit 60.
I think you all got spoiled by EQ!!
Remember when EQ first came out? We had Lower Guk, Sol B and 2 dragons to kill once a week (and only if you were in ED or Arcane Masters). Then they added Fear, which was easy for a month and then impossibly hard for many months. Then several months later Hate came out.
About 1 year after release Kunark gave us more leveling to do, 3 high end zones (Chardok, Howling Stones, and Sebilis), 4 outdoor dragons + Trakanon, Plane of Air (we could barely crack half of it) and then Veeshan's Peak for ED.
Seems to me like the first 1.5 years of EQ didn't have much to do either as far as an end game, and WoW is what, 6 months old?
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Rothander
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 312
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 14:01 Post subject:
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yea, and i had to walk up hill both ways in 10 foot of snow to school every morning too..
/yawn
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 14:46 Post subject:
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that comment made no sense you dumbfuck
I wasn't bragging about how amazing EQ was or anything else that would warrant a remark like that. I was saying that EQ did not have much either in the way of an endgame during its first year of release, so to expect so much out of WOW is a bit much, even if it is 5 years later.
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Haphasto
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 10 Nov 2002
Posts: 1800
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 14:49 Post subject:
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point well taken...never really thought of it like that.
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Rothander
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 312
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 15:12 Post subject:
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whatever Vekril...
comparing EQ to WoW is weak, WOW is alot different in many ways,. EQ is much more time intensive obviously.
and EQ pretty much inveted the powergamer. UO did to a point, but since you couldent macro in EQ as easily as UO, it made a more dedicated player.
everyone raced for the endgame in WoW. That wasnt such a feeling in EQ that i remember, sure it was there, but not in the force that it is in WoW.
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Banzai
Guest
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 15:30 Post subject:
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I think Eq hit the same sort of dead zone between Sol B and the plane of fear. The memory is just so distant that people are quick to forgive in retrospect.
My interest got re-sparked last night as we beat our first boss, first on the server, in molten core. The equivilant would have been that first Lord Nag kill.
EQ demanded more time thus challenged the players in a time sink kind of way. It made the players more diciplined but I don't know that's a good thing in a video game.
WoW is more of a game whereas EQ was sort of an alternate lifestyle.
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wibblewobble
Luke Warm
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 331
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 15:43 Post subject:
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I think WoW is missing a little end game, but still entertaining for me, i'm spending most of my time farming gold, quests, faction, getting any gear upgrades and of course raidin mc/ony... i was thinkin about starting an alt today to pass the time.
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Ilene
Rookie
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 71
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 16:16 Post subject: Endgame
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Banzeye and I play on the same server in the same guild, along with Neafy.
Gorgonnash is a low pop server, because of that we get to see and do the high end content long after the high pop and pve servers have cleared it.
In a sense that works out for us, because we can't do the content at a fast rate, it ends up more like early EQ in that sense.
One thing, having alot of EQ experience helps, especially with encounter analysis. It does give you a sense of "haven't we done this before?" but I think if you keep it in context and sit back and enjoy things, it's all good.
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Yanbik
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 1575
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 16:58 Post subject:
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ppl hit it on the nose.
Eq required a bigger time investment to hit the end game as well as ppl werent as hardcore. EQ invented the hardcore. For instance It took me forever to lvl in eq. I played on tm since day 1 of gold and didnt hit lvl 50 until like 4 days after kunark went live. I spent a lot of time finding which class i wanted to play and learning the whole mmorpg genre. When wow came out I knew what class I wanted and just plowed the game in a month or so, which I prob shouldnt have done haha.
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Kaldon
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Nov 2002
Posts: 210
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 18:42 Post subject:
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It took a lot of time to reach lv50 in EQ, something like 50 days played average for a class depending on grouping like a warrior and 20-30 days for soloing machines like necros and druids.
In WoW it takes about 10-15 played days to reach lv60 for all classes and less if you had the beta experience.
Not only that, but i think EQ had a more demanding and extensive end game in the first few months of release, Fear and Hate farming anyone?
Then it is the subject of the death penalty, which trivializes WoW imo completely as a game. In EQ you could actually lose a hard earned level or two, lose hours doing CR and even lose your corpse if you were dumb or unlucky. There was a sense of danger when raiding, remember how you braced yourself before you went through that Fear portal, thinking the worst possible scenarios? None of that stuff in WoW.
Something else to be noted is that the gear coming out of the EQ raid game was far, far better than the stuff you could get solo or with a group, making the end game very worthwhile to do. In WoW there isn't a pronounced difference between stuff you can get through raids and stuff you can get solo or with a group or even in AH (thx world drops).
Blizzard just made an easy and accessible game, it was a marketing decision to attract a broad range of gamers and not only that special kind of n**d that played EQ back in '99. They could have made a hardcore game if they wanted but they didn't for the obvious reasons. No need for them to be faulted and no need for people to b***h that there isn't an "enticing" end game for them just it was the case with EQ. Just accept it and move on.
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Kaldon
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Nov 2002
Posts: 210
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 18:45 Post subject:
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wtb edit button
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Banzai
Guest
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 18:47 Post subject:
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We haven't even started the hardcore aspect of WoW.
It's going to be all about domination in the battlefield and then from there town raids.
The chamipon of the battlefield will get a free port home to f**k with the opposing side and the loot tables for the heros will be so amazingly good that pvp will become a centerpiece and turn the game we think this is into something else.
This game we are plaing now is really just a tutorial.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 18:56 Post subject:
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| Banzai wrote: | We haven't even started the hardcore aspect of WoW.
It's going to be all about domination in the battlefield and then from there town raids.
The chamipon of the battlefield will get a free port home to f**k with the opposing side and the loot tables for the heros will be so amazingly good that pvp will become a centerpiece and turn the game we think this is into something else.
This game we are plaing now is really just a tutorial. |
I think im gonna wait until battlegrounds before i start lvling again.
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Banzai
Guest
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 19:03 Post subject:
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Prob. a good idea.
I almost went that route but the though of being essentally a peon, gathering gold in battlefileds didn't work for me.
There are quests and mobs inside battlefileds so I'm thinking that at lvl 40 your levels will fly by and you still will get credit/points for winning matches so it's not a bad idea.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 19:31 Post subject:
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| Banzai wrote: | Prob. a good idea.
I almost went that route but the though of being essentally a peon, gathering gold in battlefileds didn't work for me.
There are quests and mobs inside battlefileds so I'm thinking that at lvl 40 your levels will fly by and you still will get credit/points for winning matches so it's not a bad idea. |
Hopefully
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Xion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2117
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 21:21 Post subject:
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WOW is 6 years after EQ, and the initial subscriber base is 10x that of EQ. Their dev team is much larger, and the game took longer to develop. Vek, WOW should have more.
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Ashenor
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 1539
Location: Metro Detroit
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 21:22 Post subject:
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I have been 60 for awhile we killed Onxyia first on our server a month or so ago, we did a good chunk of MC. I got bored i know tuucan did to. I am waiting for some more content to come back.
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Starks
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 865
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Posted: 03/31/05 - 23:57 Post subject:
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Lvl'ing in WoW is so ridiculously fast, especially if you read up. EQ on the other hand toooooook forever. Killing that those stupid dwarf guards all day long, then medding for 24 minutes, just to kill another. Camping that one spectre in the Feerooooottt for "good" exp. Mudflation hit eq, it was bound to happen, but it is still a much bigger time sink than WoW.
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Kaldon
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Nov 2002
Posts: 210
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Posted: 04/01/05 - 02:01 Post subject:
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Just off the top of my head:
EQ had up to Kunark 5 raid zones: Fear, Hate, Sky, Solusek B, Permafrost and even Phinigel/Kedge Keep could be counted as a multi-group thing.
Kunark added Karnor, Sebilis, Chardok, Veeshan's Peak and tons of other targets tied to epics like Severilous, Gorenaire, Talendor.
Velious had PoG, Kael Drakkal, Thurgadin, Velketor's, Skyshrine, ToV, Sleeper's Tomb, Mischief, Western Wastes.
That was the peak of the game right there and other expansions after that continued adding even more raid content.
What does WoW have? Onyxia, Molten Core, unbeatable Ragnaros and the two new targets of opportunity, that's not enough stuff for people to keep playing.
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Kurel
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1877
Location: Cali
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Posted: 04/01/05 - 03:04 Post subject:
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Deathwings lair is in closed testing atm, with the rest of Silithus being opened up in the next content patch I bet.
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FockTop
Sir Postalot
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1055
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Posted: 04/01/05 - 06:58 Post subject:
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Bunch of f*****g crybabies, there you can all suck on my d**k since your mom's wont allow you all to suck on their nipples while whinning anymore.
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Akimatsu
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 874
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Posted: 04/01/05 - 10:12 Post subject:
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| Kaldon wrote: | Just off the top of my head:
EQ had up to Kunark 5 raid zones: Fear, Hate, Sky, Solusek B, Permafrost and even Phinigel/Kedge Keep could be counted as a multi-group thing.
Kunark added Karnor, Sebilis, Chardok, Veeshan's Peak and tons of other targets tied to epics like Severilous, Gorenaire, Talendor.
Velious had PoG, Kael Drakkal, Thurgadin, Velketor's, Skyshrine, ToV, Sleeper's Tomb, Mischief, Western Wastes.
That was the peak of the game right there and other expansions after that continued adding even more raid content.
What does WoW have? Onyxia, Molten Core, unbeatable Ragnaros and the two new targets of opportunity, that's not enough stuff for people to keep playing. |
Fear, hate, Sky, Kedge where not all open at release. So those cant be counted. So you had Solb and Permafrost, and they were not "raid" areas so much as having 1 raid mob in them each. Wouldnt count the giants as raid targets so much.
People always forget how the past was. Those rose-colored glasses damn them!
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 04/01/05 - 11:28 Post subject:
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yep.. the only difference was the time frame and that most people were not level 50 even 10 months after EQ came out. Many were just hitting 50 as Kunark came out a year later. The time is so compressed due ot the fast leveling game of WOW that it has been a problem.
I'm giving them more time to straighten things out to be honest, i'm a lot older and more patient than Iwas when EQ came out and I don't spend nearly as much time in WoW as I did in EQ.
WoW's raid content should double or triple in the next month: Deathwing Lair (or blackwing ? I forget!), Alterac Valley Battlegrounds, and one other dungeon I forget about that is raid oriented.
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Kaldon
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Nov 2002
Posts: 210
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Posted: 04/01/05 - 15:48 Post subject:
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| Akimatsu wrote: | | Kaldon wrote: | Just off the top of my head:
EQ had up to Kunark 5 raid zones: Fear, Hate, Sky, Solusek B, Permafrost and even Phinigel/Kedge Keep could be counted as a multi-group thing.
Kunark added Karnor, Sebilis, Chardok, Veeshan's Peak and tons of other targets tied to epics like Severilous, Gorenaire, Talendor.
Velious had PoG, Kael Drakkal, Thurgadin, Velketor's, Skyshrine, ToV, Sleeper's Tomb, Mischief, Western Wastes.
That was the peak of the game right there and other expansions after that continued adding even more raid content.
What does WoW have? Onyxia, Molten Core, unbeatable Ragnaros and the two new targets of opportunity, that's not enough stuff for people to keep playing. |
Fear, hate, Sky, Kedge where not all open at release. So those cant be counted. So you had Solb and Permafrost, and they were not "raid" areas so much as having 1 raid mob in them each. Wouldnt count the giants as raid targets so much.
People always forget how the past was. Those rose-colored glasses damn them! |
Yes, but people were too preoccupied with levelling before they opened.
My memory may be off but Fear was ready (and changed) during summer '99, Hate late October and Sky January or February '00. A good indication of how slow levelling was is that Nagafen was beaten first time in TM September '99 in a 100-person bind rush no less. Also the novelty of the "raid" game and the inexperience of the players should be taken in account. This was new stuff introduced to online gaming, i am sure even Verant themselves couldn't have predicted the way things turned out.
As far as WoW is concerned, non-instanced dungeons, Battlegrounds and 3-4 more raid zones would do wonders for the longevity of the game but realistically that is something not coming anytime soon.
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Regan
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 751
Location: Miami
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Posted: 04/02/05 - 06:09 Post subject:
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It took longer to level up at first in EQ, most people were nooblier to that type of game.
Eq just plane took longer to level in, but that was ok, back then there was enough content out there to keep you busy at any level. No one was in that much of a rush to the high level end game, because no one knew what that was. They went out and enjoyed what was out there to be enjoyed at their level.
Comparitively games now seem to level you alot faster, and thus have less low/mid level content, and try to focus more on the end game, as people coming from other games are interested in getting back to where they usedto be, on top of the top, not just being the best whatever level they happen to be.
With the speed of leveling in wow's case, the majority of the devs thinking should have been on pvp and the end game. No matter how great your leveling system, or low/mid level content is, if players arn't intrested in progressing though it any more it detracts more then adds to your game, and what players can do once they are max level is what your game will be judged by.
Like an itemized FPS, with a really long boring ass tutorial 
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Desaitar
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 2641
Location: whore island
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Posted: 04/02/05 - 06:29 Post subject:
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| Kaldon wrote: | | Akimatsu wrote: | | Kaldon wrote: | Just off the top of my head:
EQ had up to Kunark 5 raid zones: Fear, Hate, Sky, Solusek B, Permafrost and even Phinigel/Kedge Keep could be counted as a multi-group thing.
Kunark added Karnor, Sebilis, Chardok, Veeshan's Peak and tons of other targets tied to epics like Severilous, Gorenaire, Talendor.
Velious had PoG, Kael Drakkal, Thurgadin, Velketor's, Skyshrine, ToV, Sleeper's Tomb, Mischief, Western Wastes.
That was the peak of the game right there and other expansions after that continued adding even more raid content.
What does WoW have? Onyxia, Molten Core, unbeatable Ragnaros and the two new targets of opportunity, that's not enough stuff for people to keep playing. |
Fear, hate, Sky, Kedge where not all open at release. So those cant be counted. So you had Solb and Permafrost, and they were not "raid" areas so much as having 1 raid mob in them each. Wouldnt count the giants as raid targets so much.
People always forget how the past was. Those rose-colored glasses damn them! |
Yes, but people were too preoccupied with levelling before they opened.
My memory may be off but Fear was ready (and changed) during summer '99, Hate late October and Sky January or February '00. A good indication of how slow levelling was is that Nagafen was beaten first time in TM September '99 in a 100-person bind rush no less. Also the novelty of the "raid" game and the inexperience of the players should be taken in account. This was new stuff introduced to online gaming, i am sure even Verant themselves couldn't have predicted the way things turned out.
As far as WoW is concerned, non-instanced dungeons, Battlegrounds and 3-4 more raid zones would do wonders for the longevity of the game but realistically that is something not coming anytime soon. |
omg kaldon is always right i think
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light-matter
Total Newbie
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 21
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Posted: 04/04/05 - 17:31 Post subject:
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| Kaldon wrote: | Just off the top of my head:
EQ had up to Kunark 5 raid zones: Fear, Hate, Sky, Solusek B, Permafrost and even Phinigel/Kedge Keep could be counted as a multi-group thing.
Kunark added Karnor, Sebilis, Chardok, Veeshan's Peak and tons of other targets tied to epics like Severilous, Gorenaire, Talendor.
Velious had PoG, Kael Drakkal, Thurgadin, Velketor's, Skyshrine, ToV, Sleeper's Tomb, Mischief, Western Wastes.
That was the peak of the game right there and other expansions after that continued adding even more raid content.
What does WoW have? Onyxia, Molten Core, unbeatable Ragnaros and the two new targets of opportunity, that's not enough stuff for people to keep playing. |
What content does WoW have you may ask ?
Well many people have yet to obtain their entire Blue set, Either Purple set, epic mount, or their obtainable things through faction based merchants.
Zones available for play just over 4 months into release.
Blackrock Spire(upper and lower), Stratholme(Baron and Scarlet), Scholomance, Dire Maul, Onyxia, Molten Core.
Well if you ask me 8 instance encounters available for play is pretty damned good for only 4 months into release.
FYI the release date was November 23. and there were about 2 weeks worth of downtime since then. SO ..... 6 months... a lil off. You've just been spending too much time playing if it seems like 6 months.
You posted this on Apr 1st. So, at that time, the game had been out for exactly 128 days. If you remove the 2 weeks of actual downtime and unplayable lag days. you end up with 114 days, then take away the week of family time around Christmas. 107 days. The average person gets 8 hours sleep a night. So thats 1/3 of those days. 1/3 of 107 is about 36. so 107 - 36 = 71 days. I havent even calculated in eating time. Now ask yourself. How many days played did you have on April 1st...... I'd say with only 71 days of actual available play time since the release there is a fine amount of content. Not to mention what they are working on.
So all you non believers, give Blizzard a break. They are new to MMO and are doing an ok job getting this one going. I bet at least half of you that have bashed wow will be back and playing it this time next year when its a more stable and enjoyable game.
<eminent> Lavex - 60 Troll Rogue (Skullcrusher)
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light-matter
Total Newbie
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 21
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Posted: 04/04/05 - 17:33 Post subject:
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Oh , and I forgot to mention the outdoor encounters. THeres the 2 new ones and the one old dragon .
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Rossie1
Total Newbie
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 40
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Posted: 04/04/05 - 19:51 Post subject:
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I played EQ for a good while on TM left not all that long after POP came out and didnt play another game till wow beta.
My guild does ony, mc and the 2 new outdoor mobs. MC we have been doing Rag and one day soon hope to have him down. It would be great to have more high end content as It is getting a little boring. 56 days played on my 60 human priest might be why 
I made a NE warrior as something totally different, and it has made the game more fun (miss my goddam epic horse tho). I can play and lvl up a new char whilst keeping an eye on guild chat for raids. Be silly to make a alt the same class as main, unless you just want to power through the same content again.
Even being 60 for ages and doing mc/ony so much there always shit to do, but i think its just a good idea to break it up a bit with a alt or maybe some RL otherwise its sure to burn you out quick
Game is still fun, and hopefully ill have a few lvl 60's before the next lot of major content, as will never know what class is going to get nerfed hard so good to have back up
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Vandil
Luke Warm
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 152
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Posted: 04/04/05 - 19:51 Post subject:
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The thing is with the new way that MMoRpG's are they amde it to easy to get 60.... i mean i know people who got in in just about a month.... i KNOW based on playing EQ though i was never really high level for the first 2 years (i only got to 40 by the end of the first 2 years) it took a LONG time for most to get to 50 and hit those end zones.
WoW and EQ2 both have the problem that thier players have played these types of games before which the first players of EQ never had, and they had a much faster / easier leveling system. Players now dont wnana spend months or even years gettig to the end game.... they wanna win NOW, and thats the problem all the cry babys complaining about endgame burned through the game so fast so they could say "hey look at me i made it through first" are now stuck with nothing to do while others that have enjoyed the game by slowing having fun leveling are still loving it.
I have a 40 Shamen on Warsong and its taken me about 3 weeks to get there a otal of 6 days played and ive level slightly quickly because i had higher level friends iw as trying to catch so i cna play with them. I dont log a ton of hours but i have a ton of fun just doing quests and hanging out with friends.... i dont WANT to see end game yet because i have fun PLAYING the game
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