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justanotherguy
Total Newbie
Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 22
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 Posted: 10/19/04 - 17:35 Post subject: Wow a Ton of bad reviews about EQ2
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Seems like the game will Flop uless some diversity is made before beta goes live.... people calling it the CareBear version of EQlive.
Seems there is no diff between subclasses and each spell list \ skill list for each class is near a 1/4 of what they were for each level as in eqLIVE.
They might as well as made only 4 classes fighter-mage-priest-rogue. The subclasses are just the other ways to play the same class.
It doesnt really take much skill to win encounters I hear, just mash the buttons and a 4 year old could do as good as any skilled player. Any every COn tells you exactly if you will win or not.
Skilled pulling is down also.. seems all the encounters/ pulls have been made easy so each time youll know what your getting, and cannot change it much.
Quests seem ok but I hear they get old its all like go here collect this collect that.. bascially most of the quests just involve you seeing each zone and learning your way around.
Havent heard much about higher levels but a 46 ranger and 42 druid were not impressed at all.. and they say high level solo content is hard to come by. Also said is that the world feels SMALL, that everyone rarely runs across zones, eveyone has a means of faster transportation, since SOW and druid wizzie ports spells are gone, along with bard speed.
Hopefully Sony doesnt Pump this game out live while in beta just to try and take WOW customers.
--Dam and I was really looking forward to this game. but from all what I hear it seems hollow, really more of a Chat rooom with goood graphics and gameplay any n00b could be a pro at.
if you liked the Diversity of EQlive and the skill and adventuring it took, you wont like EQ2 especially with 4 classes and not much skill gears that make the players individuals.
-original Fhang <mokb>
Last edited by justanotherguy on 10/19/04 - 20:20; edited 1 time in total
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 10/19/04 - 18:43 Post subject: Re: Wow a Ton of bad reviews about EQ2
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| justanotherguy wrote: |
It doesnt really take much skill to win encounters I hear, just mash the buttons and a 4 year old could do as good as any skilled player.
if you liked the Diversity of EQlive and the skill and adventuring it took, you wont like EQ2 especially with 4 classes and not much skill gears that make the players individuals.
-original Fhang <mokb> |
As opposed to EQlive, which takes lots of skill?
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justanotherguy
Total Newbie
Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 22
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Posted: 10/19/04 - 19:36 Post subject:
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No but in EQ live you Could use your brains to Fear kite, run for a heal to a higher level cleric you seen earlier then continue on the fight etc or yell to the 10+ other players around the zone to come help etc..
heres some quotes:
| Quote: | | we are just trying to convince SOE that they should consider changes when 95% of high level beta testers tell them the exact same problem with the game. Its lack of diversity and individualism on the class and subclass level, and the fighting is so fast paced, little strategy is used, its simple button masking your primary abilities. In my case, heal, heal, heal, heal.....rinse, repeat. There is no time or point in debuffing or nuking |
| Quote: | | Gan is 100% correct on this game and where the higher level beta testers stand. Most have indeed quit in frustration because SOE is not even considering their posts and pleas on the beta boards for the last several months. |
From a 46 ranger who never played EQLive:
| Quote: | | Even the idea of a 'subclass' is a bit misleading, since the differences between subclasses is so mild, it is for the most part irrelevent. The first 1-20 levels are basically the entire game, in a nutshell. That's when you get your the majority of your core powers, almost 20 entirely different powers, that will define what your class is. The amazing thing is, this doesn't include any subclass powers. Each subclass has about 7-8 powers, of which most are not as useful as the original powers. Getting from 1-20 takes almost no time, relative to the rest of the game, yet that's it as far as character development is concerned. Character Developments ends before the subclass even begins. From 20-45 you mostly gain two or three upgraded versions of your 1-20 powers |
From same high level ranger:
| Quote: | Dungeons and zones are resticted to certain team sizes of people who have completed access quests(great more FLAGGING). Equipment is limited by level usage, and how effective it is at certain levels. There is little awe and wonder at taking on something extremely difficult and winning, because such encounters are tweaked, to make it impossible to do so. My favorite memories of online gaming is when I, or my team, took on something difficult and won. Also, I cherish powerful items that can make your character that much better. EQ2 will not be a game to make those kind of memories.
Instead, it will be a game where you follow your linear class path, and watch as your level 10 power is given a different name, and granted to you at 24 and 38. You will do the access quests when you can, and you fight things at your level, and will fight the solo mobs when alone and the group mobs when in a group. You will wear armor that rises as you level, so everything remains balanced throughout the game. Each fight will feel exactly like every fight, with you pounding your 4 skills that you've been using since level 20, and you will know the result of the fight before you even begin the battle. |
Last edited by justanotherguy on 10/19/04 - 19:49; edited 1 time in total
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justanotherguy
Total Newbie
Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 22
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Posted: 10/19/04 - 19:44 Post subject:
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more quotes:
| Quote: | will use the healer class in this discussion. (since it would be what you choose if your path is to become a druid)
You stay on the island to about level 5-6. Your spells appear in your book automatically.
By level 5 these are the spells you have:
1 - Minor Healing
2 - Blessing
3 - Smite
4 - Inspiration
5 - Courage
If you compare this to a druid that is level 5 in EQlive (as an example)
• Skin Like Wood
• Burst of Flame
• Minor Healing
• Flame Lick
• Snare
• Endure Fire
• Lull Animal
• Panic Animal
• Sense Animals
• Dance of Fireflies
• Cure Poison
• Invoke Lightning
• Cure Disease
• Grasping Roots
• Burst of Fire
• Camouflage
• Ward Summoned
• Harmony
• Whirling Wind
• Gate |
| Quote: | 1. Conning NPC's - When you con an NPC it tells you too much.
It tells you if it is agro, what LEVEL it is, what color it is(difficulty), and they even have additional arrows up or down above the NPC's head to tell you if its extremely difficult or easy.
If you mouse over the target window you are literally TOLD whether you can defeat the encounter with verbose paragraphs. (a blue con MOB in eq could be many different levels and difficulties. You were not sure if it could summon you, if it was just one level lower -- or 10.)
I actually felt like they were insulting my intelligence with the way they treat me in the conning system.
2. Linked NPC's. (another one of the things I think sounded so good on paper but in reality removes too many options in the game - I will expound on that in my conclusion at the end of these posts) For now, I will stick to the topic of linked.
NPC's were, and are linked in EQ. (agro range, faction and your level determine how many will agro you) If you used skills of various group members (harmony the Derv camp, Root one, feign pull..whatever) you could somewhat determine what came - providing you had no resists - but alas that was part of the excitement.
Also, part of it was not knowing how many would come. OOPS..I thought I could pull just two..(suddenly the enchanter is trying to deal with your additional 3 NPC's ..the druid is rooting one away..it is what memories are made of. It is what makes everyone say to each other after the fight..wow good job gang!)
The linked NPC's in EQ2 work differently. When you click on one of them it highlights all that will come with it. (no wondering, no mistakes). We are just blindly told that these four NPC's will come and these four will not.
There is no way to change that. No way to beat the odds, think out of the box, or otherwise effect that outcome by being a good player.
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justanotherguy
Total Newbie
Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 22
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Posted: 10/19/04 - 19:52 Post subject:
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And heres some more good ones:
| Quote: | EQ2 has turned into the Fisher Price of MMORPG's. SOE's gone too far, they have gone overboard on tweaking every encounter, every player experience, every zone.
They have EVERYTHING figured out.. you will play how they want you to play..!
They have also taken the role of guardian (mother/Father) and under the impression we are like kids, saying "Here you go, now don't hurt yourself" knowing that they already childproofed everything for you. The game is way to linear... and constricting and controlling. Who are they making this game for... the 12yr old Sony Playstation crowd.
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Silver heres one above for your question =-D
| Quote: | Locked combat...? Let me run a little scenorio for yaz:
In EverQuest you could come over a sand dune and have a Sand Giant comming after you. He's clearly out-of-your-league but you noticed as you turn and run that he's been wounded and at half life (45%). Your hearts pounding but you decide to turn and face him with a root.. and test your skillz. [arrow]! You take off running again, with the aid of your newly aquired journeyman's boots, but he's hit you hard and you going to think twice before turning and engaging him again... though your heart is still POUNDING from even standing up to him. As your fleeing, you notice "others" have gathered in persuit to be able to document your brevity in bravery. Encourage by the gallery of people and knowing your nearing the zone wall you gather up enough courage to try another root and at least walk out of the zone with dignity.
Root Sticks...! and without thinking your first nuke lands. Others encourage by your bravness and Heroics decide to charge the Giant aswell. Somewhere you receive a heal and the Sand Giant is severly wounded, you let another nuke fly as he is being overwhelmed by the "beehive" of others. Moments later, the Menace falls... he claimed a few lives but he's dead now. /shouts erupt, words of congratulations and bravado erupts from the crowd at hand... others come running to be witness of the fallen Giant. I the midths of the confusion you regain composer and claim your rightful prestige and Sandgiant Killed and loot him..!
This cannot happen in EQ2... nor will it EVER !!
The sense of Community in EQ2 beta is GONE... you don't even pay attention to what other people are doing, nor do you care. EQ2 is a game with 2,000 people playing a single-player RPG.
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| Quote: | "I already made my decision. I will NOT buy EverQuest 2.
The reasons are many. Developers and people in charge not being able to give a statement to a HUGE uproar in the community. I find it almost hilarious that the only statement we got was pointing out a bug we already were aware of.
Ive been SOE customer for too long to be satisfied with, excuse my language, halfassed excuses and promises anymore..SOE never holds a promise.
SOE has been sitting on the "Best MMORPG EVER" throne for tooooo long - I get the feeling they are getting lazy. Time to pass that throne on to one of the TRUE Next Generation MMOs that are coming.
To sum it up, in my eyes they have utterly failed in making an interesting game. They sure made a good kiddie game - but nothing for someone grown up enough to make their own decisions.
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 10/19/04 - 20:25 Post subject:
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so it's not eqLive
and this is news to you?
I am by no means a fanboi, but really you outta try it out yourself before you do declaring any intent to play or not to play.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 10/19/04 - 21:13 Post subject:
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pretty sure the thread was just a list of bad reviews. Hey, Ob! We're tryin to save ya $63 here!
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 10/19/04 - 21:26 Post subject:
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rofl im gonna play it
i happen to like mmorpg's - even when they aren't perfect
i like exploring and figuring out tactics and killing stuff and looting stuff and leveling and all that jazz
and when eq2 peters out i'll play wow
and when that peters out maybe warhammer will have a publisher...
or sigil may be done with vanguard
i play them for fun
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merdocc
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2038
Location: Pasadena Ca
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Posted: 10/19/04 - 22:41 Post subject:
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I have found that EQ2 is very good while high or drunk or whatever. it's just not good enough to hold my attention when i'm just sitting down and not paying attention to all of the shit they put in to the game while they could have been working on making it not suck.
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Bait Masterson
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3842
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Posted: 10/20/04 - 17:09 Post subject: Re: Wow a Ton of bad reviews about EQ2
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| justanotherguy wrote: |
Seems there is no diff between subclasses and each spell list \ skill list for each class is near a 1/4 of what they were for each level as in eqLIVE.
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This is funny, being one of the first 50's I can tell you that 90% of the spells didnt work worth a shit in the first year of EQ, some never ever even became realized and were slowly just phased out of the spell lists completly (like the AE lifetap for the necros).
Did you play Eq back in the day?
Because despite being quite a few spells in EQlive, even to this day only a few for each class are *really* used, so if the spells are useful (not that I know if they are) despite the list being small, it is no real big loss.
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Finigan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3817
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Posted: 10/20/04 - 17:17 Post subject:
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EQ2 is shit, I played it once for 4 hours and had no desire to play it again. They simply removed the few enjoyable elements of EQ1 and added more garbage like "keys". "flags", and "level requirements" to make you want to kill yourself.
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Jakanden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 5334
Location: Fuck if I know - I am always lost
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Posted: 10/20/04 - 17:33 Post subject:
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Wierd - all the reviews and Beta Journals I have read are positive and I have read many since the NDA was originally partially lifted (To level 10). I have also heard nothing but positive feedback from those I know in Beta.
I will be playing no doubt =)
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12940
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 10/20/04 - 17:34 Post subject:
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Me too.
Perhaps someone is just bitter they didn't get into the beta...who knows..who f*****g cares? I'll be playing it regardless.
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GRiM
Total Newbie
Joined: 14 Nov 2002
Posts: 30
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Posted: 10/20/04 - 18:10 Post subject:
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Here is an update for you f*****g whinners, if you don't like the game don't worry about if its good or bad. Its in beta; when its released then talk shit....
UPDATE:
Since character individualization in EverQuest II has been a hot topic following the lifting of the NDA, we thought it would be a good idea to share our plan for the all-new features that are going live in the next few weeks to give a greater sense of uniqueness to players. We’ll be releasing more details each day, beginning with the character traits list tomorrow afternoon.
First, let’s talk about what’s changing from its current state.
We’re releasing the final class spells and arts lists. These move away from the standard archetype spells and arts we’ve been using for balance testing and give players access to their class-specific spell selections. The spells and arts you’ll see in the next few updates include new effects, class-specific strengths and flavor, and final names.
These spell changes are taking place across the board and will greatly refine class differences from what they are today. We’ve completed the balancing necessary to give a solid role to each class and now we’re excited to release the new spell and art lists.
To illustrate how these changes work, we'll use the Mage -> Sorcerer -> Wizard progression as an example.
Unlike how it was in the previous spell lists, once you turn level 10 you stop being just a mage. As you choose your path and complete your quest, from that point forward you are a sorcerer. There are no new mage spells after level 10. Each class will be branch off into entirely class-specific spells.
Once you turn level 20 and choose the path of a wizard, you are no longer a sorcerer. As before, there are no new sorcerer spells after level 20. You will be gaining wizard subclass spells from there forward.
In other words, there is no longer any such thing as a "level 44 mage spell," because a high-level wizard should never think of himself or herself as a level 44 mage in EverQuest II.
You will still be able to do a number of the same things to keep being useful in your key roles, but with unique and interesting differences that are suitable to each of the classes and subclasses that branch out from the common base.
For example, all priests will continue to receive instant heals, but other heal types will be restricted based on class. Only shamans will get wards, only druids will get regens, and only clerics will get reactive heals.
Classes will also receive a greater assortment of unique spells and arts. These are additional abilities that will likely be purchased off vendors. For example, illusionists will be able to cast racial illusions.
Full spell and art lists for each class will be released in the next few days.
Next, we’d like to outline some brand new features going live in the coming days and weeks. These systems add a tremendous amount of customization to each character and should help you create the unique persona you'll want to play in EverQuest II.
New Feature - Training Specialized Abilities
As you develop your character, you’ll be able to specialize in major aspects of your profession. About every ten levels, you can choose to focus on one of your core abilities and receive advanced training to improve it.
For example, a priest could train and receive either a stronger heal, a more potent buff, or a higher-damage nuke. This ability would be of much greater potency than the typical granted spell and may be upgraded even more through adventuring.
Each profession gets similar choices that play to their strengths – fighters may choose between offensive and defensive enhancements, or mages may focus on improving a damage spell, a pet, or a stun spell as appropriate to their profession.
New Feature - Character Traits
Character traits allow you to choose an aspect of your character and improve upon it. Traits are independent of your character’s race or profession, and all characters have access to the full list.
By the time they’ve reached level 50, every character will gain access to seven traits that help tailor their character to their preferred play style.
For example, a given character might choose to become Clever, thereby increasing their intelligence. Another character might choose to become Nimble, thereby increasing their base agility.
Traits can improve your character in a variety of areas, such as increasing your statistics, giving more health or power, improving your health or power regeneration speed, and making your more resistant to magic, disease, or different types of melee damage.
Traits are generally permanent effects that continuously improve your character during play. Once you’ve selected a trait, you’ll enjoy its benefits permanently.
New Feature - Racial Traditions
As players learn the background and lore of their chosen race, they begin to unlock certain bonuses. This starts with race-specific titles and leads to a choice of racial abilities.
By the time they’ve reached level 50, every character will gain access to four racial traditions to help tailor their character to their preferred play style and distinguish themselves from other members of their race.
For instance, an iksar could choose from enhanced health regeneration, increased power regeneration, or increased armor class. A ratonga may learn to forage for food or improve his ability to dodge blows. Erudites may learn to summon a magical wisp, guard themselves with a magic-resistant shield, or improve their alchemist crafting abilities.
Racial traditions take many forms, but are generally activated abilities that can be used on demand to greatly improve your character for a short period of time.
Some traditions give bonuses similar to traits, but with much more powerful effects.
Full racial tradition lists will be released for every race in the next few days.
New Feature - Enemy Mastery
During your adventuring career, you’ll be able to learn about the creatures and monsters you’re fighting and use that knowledge to your advantage.
Every few levels, players may choose from a selection of enemies and undertake a quest to learn how to exploit their weaknesses. The successful completion of this quest results in an enhanced attack against that type of enemy.
By the time they’ve reached level 50, every character will gain access to six enemy masteries to help tailor their character to their preferred play style.
Summary
These new kinds of choices allow for greater individualization without creating major imbalances between subclasses. One dwarf templar can have different stats and abilities than another dwarf templar while retaining the core abilities that they need to be successful in their key roles. Approximately every two levels players will receive an additional choice that allows another degree of individualization.
We plan to have the first round of these features showing up in next week's scheduled update (week of 10/25/04) with additional features arriving the week after. We look forward to hearing what you think of these upcoming changes.
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Jakanden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 5334
Location: Fuck if I know - I am always lost
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Posted: 10/20/04 - 18:15 Post subject:
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Moorgards post (The above) was posted elsewhere here today. At least give credit instead of posting with no link =p
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 09:30 Post subject: Re: Wow a Ton of bad reviews about EQ2
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| justanotherguy wrote: | Seems like the game will Flop uless some diversity is made before beta goes live.... people calling it the CareBear version of EQlive.
Seems there is no diff between subclasses and each spell list \ skill list for each class is near a 1/4 of what they were for each level as in eqLIVE.
They might as well as made only 4 classes fighter-mage-priest-rogue. The subclasses are just the other ways to play the same class.
It doesnt really take much skill to win encounters I hear, just mash the buttons and a 4 year old could do as good as any skilled player. Any every COn tells you exactly if you will win or not.
Skilled pulling is down also.. seems all the encounters/ pulls have been made easy so each time youll know what your getting, and cannot change it much.
Quests seem ok but I hear they get old its all like go here collect this collect that.. bascially most of the quests just involve you seeing each zone and learning your way around.
Havent heard much about higher levels but a 46 ranger and 42 druid were not impressed at all.. and they say high level solo content is hard to come by. Also said is that the world feels SMALL, that everyone rarely runs across zones, eveyone has a means of faster transportation, since SOW and druid wizzie ports spells are gone, along with bard speed.
Hopefully Sony doesnt Pump this game out live while in beta just to try and take WOW customers.
--Dam and I was really looking forward to this game. but from all what I hear it seems hollow, really more of a Chat rooom with goood graphics and gameplay any n00b could be a pro at.
if you liked the Diversity of EQlive and the skill and adventuring it took, you wont like EQ2 especially with 4 classes and not much skill gears that make the players individuals.
-original Fhang <mokb> |
Good point, because, you know, the game has been released and is finished. No more changes will ever be made, it is completely logical and rational to write the game off based on your experiences of it thus far.
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Kurel
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1877
Location: Cali
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 09:42 Post subject:
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You do realize they're shipping EQ 2 in November to compete with WoW right? Does the game *feel* finished to you? That's all you have to ask.
Personally with my past experiences with SOE (EQ, SWG, PlanetSide) I will never, EVER play another SOE run game again.
They can take a really great idea full of potential, and tank it. See SWG's expansion: Jump to Light Speed, the buggiest, most worthless piece of shit code to ever come out of SOE thus far. Or how about PlanetSide? Take a really great idea (MMOFPS) but ruin it by adding Mech's that completely unbalance the game, force people to buy a s****y expansion, and worsen an already huge problem with performance, and basically make your entire veteran population cancel their subs and leave the game entirely in disguest.
SOE is to game making as John Kerry is to politics. They simply don't have the track record to make a good game. Sorry. :/
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anomalee
Luke Warm
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 227
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Goraz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3736
Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 10:22 Post subject:
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This thread is full of more shit than a septic tank.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 13:25 Post subject:
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| Kurel wrote: |
SOE is to game making as John Kerry is to politics. They simply don't have the track record to make a good game. Sorry. :/ |
I see. Well how long have you/did you play EQlive?
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Kurel
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1877
Location: Cali
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 02:05 Post subject:
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Up until PoP was released, I came back for about a week and played through a bit of PoP, and was bored and frustrated out of my mind.
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 05:12 Post subject:
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GRIMs post was long so ill summarize..
"We realize that people have been complaining about how suck our game is and how classes dont evolve at all, for this reason we plan on releasing untested new abilities as the game goes live to combat this problem, we also promise to not fix he problems this retarded plan causes for a long time! Hope you enjoy beta testing our skill system for us."
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