Why didn't they use SWG **CLASS** hierarchies?

SWG had the best advancement system I've ever seen. You could be 10%th medic, 10% ranger, whatever you wanted. You were always left feeling like you wanted just a few more points than were possible, but that's how it should feel - at least to me. You want so many abilities, but can only settle for a few.

Rank 1 of mesmerization skills would let you mez level 1-12 mobs reliably, 13-24 with 75% chance success, 25-50 with 50% failure or early break, 51+ with only 20% (or whatever) chance of mezzing at "Rank 1." Go for 2 ranks and you can mez more reliably, but maybe your healing (or tanking) abilities suffer.

It was so creative! I wish other games .. like.. uh.. good ones ... had that.

I hated almost everything about SWG personally and that class system was one of the big ones. That's just me though =)

Jakanden wrote:

I hated almost everything about SWG personally and that class system was one of the big ones. That's just me though =)

What did you dislike about it?

Occulis wrote:

Jakanden wrote: I hated almost everything about SWG personally and that class system was one of the big ones. That's just me though =) What did you dislike about it?

I prefer a set advancement path. I dont want a character that can do everything. I play a necro. I dont want to heal, I dont want to tank. If I wanted to do those, I would play those classes.

In SWG, my dancer could sleep her way to the top! And she had mad skillz!

I played swg for 1 night and gave the account and cds back to my boss. Sucked.

Occulis wrote:

SWG had the best advancement system I've ever seen. You could be 10%th medic, 10% ranger, whatever you wanted. You were always left feeling like you wanted just a few more points than were possible, but that's how it should feel - at least to me. You want so many abilities, but can only settle for a few. Rank 1 of mesmerization skills would let you mez level 1-12 mobs reliably, 13-24 with 75% chance success, 25-50 with 50% failure or early break, 51+ with only 20% (or whatever) chance of mezzing at "Rank 1." Go for 2 ranks and you can mez more reliably, but maybe your healing (or tanking) abilities suffer. It was so creative! I wish other games .. like.. uh.. good ones ... had that.

If you want to see the best advancement system ever designed go play Dragonrealms.

And as far as EQ2 goes, maybe i'd like an advancement system like you talked about, but sure as hell not in EQ2. THe problem is when you can do everything and everyon has no identity. Base class + meaningfull min/maxing = does it for me mostly.

I like WoW's where it gives you different paths to take but on your set class.

Jak you could choose 100% necro path No one says you are forced to diversify.

I also like the idea of completely random, sparse "bonus points."

Like there is a 0.01% chance you'll gain 2hp for no reason, once per day.

I liked the SWG system, because it opened up great templates, just never got to use them, and my template couldn't be beaten by any monster out there, which did make the game boring as hell, and also ran the grouping system out Dunn's a*s, SWG is good for solo classes, thats about it

Realizing no one could tank mobs (at least when I played), and you had to rely on pets to do it, was quite the epitome of lame.

pretty much anyone can tank mobs unless you're like a medic, and have no melee skills, or a range person, but range was so powerful and cheap sometimes, that you could kill the mob before it even got to you, so it didn't matter.

I was a swordsman, and I had 2 friends, that were a TKA, and fencer, and all of us could tank.

The class advancement was a little weird, but I think that's just because it was so new from every MMORPG. I didn't like that you couldn't gain any HAM from items, or advancement, you could only change your stats, in stat mitagation and pay an image designer like 10000 credits to change your stats. You were basically forced to pay 20000 credits to get doctor buffs, if you really wanted to hunt anything that gave even a decent amount of experience.

They didn't give you enough skill points in my opinion either. You would think they'd seperate the skill points into different categories, so you actually have enough to do some type of tradeskills. I was a musician, medic, and swordsman, and didn't have enough to master any type of tradeskill.

I could go on and on with more complaints...like the armor system, but i'll shut up now.

Haphasto wrote:

They didn't give you enough skill points in my opinion either. You would think they'd seperate the skill points into different categories, so you actually have enough to do some type of tradeskills. I was a musician, medic, and swordsman, and didn't have enough to master any type of tradeskill.

I think that's precisely what Dunn is saying. No game *should* allow any one character to be the master of such diverse trees. There is no good reason you can give that will convince me of why you need to be both a TKM and a Master Chef. No good reason. If you want to be a crafter you commit to it. If you want to be a combat powerhouse you commit to it. You can always change if you want to. Both sides can make shitloads of money too so that argument won't work.

There were many things in SWG that put it miles ahead of games out there and to this day, I have not seen better. I don't know how the crafting system in in WoW, I imagine it's pretty good. The crafting system in SWG was absolutely incredible. I have never seen so much potential and so much personalization allowed in a MMO crafting system. You can truly make your mark on the server community, people drop your name like you would talking about your favorite brand of laundry detergent. It's incredible.

The class system was also excellent. Some of the actual logistics made no sense like why do you need Brawler experience to be a Smuggler but then have no unarmed/hand-to-hand skills gained as a Smuggler or why do you need Medic Crafting xp to become a Bio-Engineer but then not be able to experiment on your own medical subcomponents because they require Doctor level experimentation? So some things made no sense, but the entire idea was very solid, very fair and very free to customize your character to be what you wanted him to be.

I can't think of anything else that makes SWG stand out.. everything else was pretty crappy in comparison. I still play tho... 4 accounts.

-Nah-

Nahualli wrote:

Haphasto wrote: They didn't give you enough skill points in my opinion either. You would think they'd seperate the skill points into different categories, so you actually have enough to do some type of tradeskills. I was a musician, medic, and swordsman, and didn't have enough to master any type of tradeskill. I think that's precisely what Dunn is saying. No game *should* allow any one character to be the master of such diverse trees. There is no good reason you can give that will convince me of why you need to be both a TKM and a Master Chef. No good reason. If you want to be a crafter you commit to it. If you want to be a combat powerhouse you commit to it. You can always change if you want to. Both sides can make shitloads of money too so that argument won't work. There were many things in SWG that put it miles ahead of games out there and to this day, I have not seen better. I don't know how the crafting system in in WoW, I imagine it's pretty good. The crafting system in SWG was absolutely incredible. I have never seen so much potential and so much personalization allowed in a MMO crafting system. You can truly make your mark on the server community, people drop your name like you would talking about your favorite brand of laundry detergent. It's incredible. The class system was also excellent. Some of the actual logistics made no sense like why do you need Brawler experience to be a Smuggler but then have no unarmed/hand-to-hand skills gained as a Smuggler or why do you need Medic Crafting xp to become a Bio-Engineer but then not be able to experiment on your own medical subcomponents because they require Doctor level experimentation? So some things made no sense, but the entire idea was very solid, very fair and very free to customize your character to be what you wanted him to be. I can't think of anything else that makes SWG stand out.. everything else was pretty crappy in comparison. I still play tho... 4 accounts. -Nah-

EQ2's system where adventure and crafting experience are completely seperate is grea.t It allows people be truly one or the other, or both. But being a level 50 warrior takes as long and vice versa as an armorer.

No reason why non-combat non-utilities skills should override or restrict combat ones.

Mugaaz wrote:

No reason why non-combat non-utilities skills should override or restrict combat ones.

Actually there's a very good reason for it

There's no economy if everyone or even the majority of the player population is self sufficient. Also understand, however, that SWG was designed from the ground up to be a player run economy. EQ and EQ2 were not. They are still endgame driven games with loot and items coming off of mobs being superior than player-crafted ones. I suppose in a game like EQ2 it may be a benefit to be a crafter fighter. In SWG that would never work because if everyone could do everything on their own no one would buy anyone else's shit.

-Nah-

Anyways this isn't about the economies. It's about whether or not a game should let you be everything in the game simultaneously. I don't believe it should. I don't ever think we will come to an agreement on this one so I suppose we should just drop it. I just don't see much fun in a system like that, while EQs was far too severe.

-Nah-

Nahualli wrote:

Anyways this isn't about the economies. It's about whether or not a game should let you be everything in the game simultaneously. I don't believe it should. I don't ever think we will come to an agreement on this one so I suppose we should just drop it. I just don't see much fun in a system like that, while EQs was far too severe. -Nah-

No man you're just wrong. This isn't an opinion, you're just wrong. If there is enough content then there is no 1 player beats all. Just like a warrior cant heal, an armorer can't make weapons. If the crafting system is worth using it's worth allowing players access too. I refuse to play more than 1 character to enjoy a game. MMO's are about character development, anytime you FORCE a player to make another character in order to be ABLE to access content you are making the game terrible. Crafting and Fighting worlds have NOTHING to do with each other directly, there is nothing gained by making me make a mule to lvl 50 as an armor who can do nothing else and can't fight, vs making it equally hard for me to be level 50 armor as a level 50 warrior. THe only way what youre trying to say makes sense is on SWG servers where you can have 1 and only 1 character. Let's not talk about how stupid that is. Making conetent players can't access is about the stupidest thing possible.

Mugaaz wrote:

Nahualli wrote: Anyways this isn't about the economies. It's about whether or not a game should let you be everything in the game simultaneously. I don't believe it should. I don't ever think we will come to an agreement on this one so I suppose we should just drop it. I just don't see much fun in a system like that, while EQs was far too severe. -Nah- No man you're just wrong. This isn't an opinion, you're just wrong. If there is enough content then there is no 1 player beats all. Just like a warrior cant heal, an armorer can't make weapons. If the crafting system is worth using it's worth allowing players access too. I refuse to play more than 1 character to enjoy a game. MMO's are about character development, anytime you FORCE a player to make another character in order to be ABLE to access content you are making the game terrible. Crafting and Fighting worlds have NOTHING to do with each other directly, there is nothing gained by making me make a mule to lvl 50 as an armor who can do nothing else and can't fight, vs making it equally hard for me to be level 50 armor as a level 50 warrior. THe only way what youre trying to say makes sense is on SWG servers where you can have 1 and only 1 character. Let's not talk about how stupid that is. Making conetent players can't access is about the stupidest thing possible.

You can access it all. You just can't access it all at the same time. Nothing wrong here. There is no good reason for what you're saying other than "I would never do it" which is hardly a good reason. You are not forced to make another character to do everything in the game. You are forced to make another character if you want to do everything in the game *at the same time*. You can go through really all the classes, all the skills and all the quests in SWG, it just takes a long time. You can even switch between factions, Rebel and Imperial. You can also change faction of who you fly for. There is nothing in the game that is binding with the only exception of unlocking a Jedi account.

Did you even play SWG? Do you even know what you're talking about? I'm just checking. If you haven't played SWG just shut up now because you're officially talking out of your a*s. If you are, then you may carry on.

-Nah-

I have to admit, the crafting system in SWG was pretty awesome. I had 2 accounts, a master weaponsmith/doctor and BH/CM. It was like server celebrity status to be one of the first weaponsmiths, people would go crazy about shit. However, it really sucked with all the duping.. It made the 50 million credits i made legitamtely worthless. Lame SOE