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gotissues68
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 1866
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 Posted: 11/04/04 - 04:18 Post subject: Why I dislike Bush (meant to true post)
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Ok to this meant to spark real discussion so please if you don't have anything good to add please just don't post to this k?
I have been thinking over the past few days really hard about why I don't like George Bush. Yesterday was the first time I have ever voted (I'm 25) and it was something I felt very deeply about and felt really good when I had done it. So as I look at the election results and how I voted and how others voted and feel about the outcome I decided to ask myself, why do I dislike our President?.
I don't agree with the war in Iraq, not because I don't support our troops (I have family in the service and in fact thats a huge reason why I dislike it, I fear that my neice and nephew may have to be told that their daddy died fighting a war). I also disagree with the way it was handled to begin with. I dislike Saddam Hussein just like everyone else, in fact I despise him and I'm glad he's gone, he was/is a worthless sack of shit. However the claim was that Iraq had WMD's which has been found to be unsubstantiated (atleast in the quantities that the adminstration would have had you believe there was at the time of the request to congress to declare war). If our president had looked directly into the camera and said "I don't like this m**********r I want him dead or captured" then I'm cool with that. Don't be an opportunist with the war on terror and use that as your in. Just be f*****g honest about your intentions.
Then I started to think, do I dislike him for any other reason? I honestly can't think of many. Sure the guy has mangled the english language but so what we're all good at something and he's just not a good speaker, shit I couldn't speak half as well as him in front of a crowd either but that in and out itself doesn't qualify for me atleast as a reason to dislike someone. I don't agree with his giving out unbid contracts to Halliburton but again that wasn't all him, there's other people to blame as well.
I haven't been personally affected by the recession that happened but I have family and friends who have, but I don't blame him as a direct cause of it. Hell the dot com bubble was bursting before he was elected the first time. I blame lack of business sense on the part of young and dumb dot com CEO's for that.
I do think the rise in gas prices are a direct result of his presidency, whether he has a hand in it in order to benefit his friends in the oil indrustry would be a little too conspiracy theory for me but it makes some sense.
I would like Kbarr or Confused to respond in an decent manner please, I know you guys are capable of it. I'm always open to differing opinions as long as you don't get into b******t name calling 
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khrath
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8750
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Posted: 11/04/04 - 04:37 Post subject:
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why are people still harping about WMD?
Bush used that as an excuse to get rid of Saddam, it isn't why we got rid of him. Saddam is an evil man, guilty of the worst crimes imaginable, who was in charge of a rich and powerful country.
WMD was just a smokescreen used to keep the international community off our ass long enough to get the job finished.
Bush did just want to get rid of Saddam, it needed doing, it should of been done, by us, a long time ago. His problem was, he can't just come out and say....hey America, i'm sick of this a*****e, lets get him!
He'd of been up for impeachment the very next day, and Saddam would have giggled his ass off all the way to Palace #34 with a fat bottle of Jack in his hand and a blonde haired white girl on his arm.
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gotissues68
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 1866
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Posted: 11/04/04 - 04:50 Post subject:
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Ok I can deal with the smokescreen. Why, now thats it been done can he not admit to it then? For the same impeachment reasons?
If we're into getting s****y world leaders out of the way why won't we attack North Korea? And I'm not saying we have to go balls to the walls lets get into a major conflict with them, why not send in some marine's with sniper gear and put a bullet in that c********r's head? And what about China for that matter? A country which still damn near openly commits human rights violations on a daily basis but has most favored nation trading status with us.. I don't see Iran as a serious threat, the president of that country has said he will willingly step down if his people ask him to do so... and until he does otherwise I have no reason not to believe him. What about Sudan where the government is ostensibly arming and paying militia's to murder and rape women and children? The whole point here is that, if we're going to be in the business of taking scum back c***s who need to be taken down then why not apply that globally? I am ready for the whole "North Korea has nukes and China is willing to back them up" argument but if we are the most powerful military in the world then it shouldn't be that tough right?
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khrath
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8750
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Posted: 11/04/04 - 05:20 Post subject:
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| gotissues68 wrote: |
Ok I can deal with the smokescreen. Why, now thats it been done can he not admit to it then? For the same impeachment reasons?
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Dimplomacy
| gotissues68 wrote: |
If we're into getting s****y world leaders out of the way why won't we attack North Korea? And I'm not saying we have to go balls to the walls lets get into a major conflict with them, why not send in some marine's with sniper gear and put a bullet in that c********r's head?
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It's against national policy.
The rest of the stuff, has already been answered by John Kerry.
We don't have the military to do it all at once.
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Runzik
Total Newbie
Joined: 09 Feb 2004
Posts: 32
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Posted: 11/04/04 - 05:50 Post subject: Add on
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Just as a little add on to what has already been discussed,
Another major reason that Bush went after Iraq was simply for the control of the oil. It brings to mind the statement of
The golden rule
He who has the gold makes the rules. Its no secret that Bush wanted control of the largest supply of oil in the world and if Iraq continued to keep control of the oil supplies the US would be in major trouble had Saddam decided it was time to s***w with the US again.
I know that the smoke screen provided by the gov. on many issues is thick, but it always has been. Kennedy assassination, The space program, the plane that went down in PA 9/11, and the fact that a 757 hit the Pentagon 9/11.
Also the fact that none of this stuff was known and/or planned by some gov. officials is complete BS, I agree that they probably didn't know that it would be this big but they knew something was going down. There is an angle on EVERYTHING IN LIFE, just gotta look for the angles. Who profits from the attacks who profits from the war. Its all about profit.
The information that is given to the public is given to the public with 110% crowd control in mind. There are experts that have 1 job working for the government and that job is damage control, translation BS the american public. And as Khrath stated "" WMD was just a smokescreen used to keep the international community off our ass long enough to get the job finished"" is absouletly correct.
tC
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NickPSH
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5680
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Posted: 11/04/04 - 05:55 Post subject:
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Göring: "Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."
Gilbert: "There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."
Göring: "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." (Nuremberg Diary by GM Gilbert)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Goering
Manipulation of peoples fears, hopes, and minds isn't something that is new. Nor is it wrong all the time. Sometimes people don't see a threat that is there, and need others to point it out. Whether or not this is the case now, I'll let other, wiser people decide.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 11/04/04 - 06:01 Post subject:
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| NickPSH wrote: | Göring: "Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."
Gilbert: "There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."
Göring: "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." (Nuremberg Diary by GM Gilbert)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Goering
Manipulation of peoples fears, hopes, and minds isn't something that is new. Nor is it wrong all the time. Sometimes people don't see a threat that is there, and need others to point it out. Whether or not this is the case now, I'll let other, wiser people decide. |
Summary: the people are dumb.
(Largely true, but sometimes leaders aren't too smart either)
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 11/04/04 - 06:12 Post subject: Re: Why I dislike Bush (meant to true post)
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| gotissues68 wrote: |
I would like Kbarr or Confused to respond in an decent manner please, I know you guys are capable of it. I'm always open to differing opinions as long as you don't get into b******t name calling |
Look, no names.
My response.
I have no idea what you want from me.
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Fattguyy
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 9911
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
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Posted: 11/04/04 - 06:26 Post subject:
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Why do people get mad about the dads not coming home? I know it would suck to lose a dad/son/uncle whatever, but they was not forced to join any service, they did it on their own free will. =p
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khrath
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8750
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Posted: 11/04/04 - 06:39 Post subject:
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because a large majority only joined for college money, and think that somehow it absolves them of having to actually be a soldier.
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gotissues68
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 1866
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Posted: 11/04/04 - 14:30 Post subject:
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My brother in law is in special ops and he knows full well he could get killed but how do you explain that to a 7 year old child?
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 11/04/04 - 14:46 Post subject:
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| gotissues68 wrote: | | My brother in law is in special ops and he knows full well he could get killed but how do you explain that to a 7 year old child? |
My brother in law is driving down the street and he knows full well he could get killed by a gangster, traffic accident, heart attack, etc,...but how do you explain that to a 7 year old child?
That's life. Climb aboard.
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gotissues68
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 1866
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Posted: 11/05/04 - 03:51 Post subject:
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| Dyers wrote: | | gotissues68 wrote: | | My brother in law is in special ops and he knows full well he could get killed but how do you explain that to a 7 year old child? |
My brother in law is driving down the street and he knows full well he could get killed by a gangster, traffic accident, heart attack, etc,...but how do you explain that to a 7 year old child?
That's life. Climb aboard. |
Apples and Oranges unless you live in Israel...
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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 11/05/04 - 03:56 Post subject:
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| gotissues68 wrote: | | Dyers wrote: | | gotissues68 wrote: | | My brother in law is in special ops and he knows full well he could get killed but how do you explain that to a 7 year old child? |
My brother in law is driving down the street and he knows full well he could get killed by a gangster, traffic accident, heart attack, etc,...but how do you explain that to a 7 year old child?
That's life. Climb aboard. |
Apples and Oranges unless you live in Israel... |
Dead is dead.
How is it different?
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Oggabish
Luke Warm
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 201
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Posted: 11/05/04 - 05:21 Post subject:
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| Scrabler wrote: | Dead is dead.
How is it different? |
The chance of dying in a war is much higher than in regular civilian surroundings. That's the difference.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 11/05/04 - 05:32 Post subject:
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| Oggabish wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | Dead is dead.
How is it different? |
The chance of dying in a war is much higher than in regular civilian surroundings. That's the difference. |
Not to mention that dying in a war means dying for a cause, whereas dying in civilian surroundings means dying pointlessly.
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Fattguyy
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 9911
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
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Posted: 11/05/04 - 05:53 Post subject:
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I bet more people have died in the US in 1 year, then people who have died in the Iraq War since it started
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Someone
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 929
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Posted: 11/05/04 - 05:53 Post subject:
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When people join the military, it is expected that they perform the tasks that they trained for if combat occurs. What is with this whole leaching mentality?
A parent tells the 7 year old child that their father/mother died doing their job. He/she should be remembered and honored. You instill it the whole time that child is growing up.
Comparing apples the oranges...? The example given was clear and valid. You are letting your view of the war cloud the simple fact that the military trains for war, and people joining the military are thus being trained for war. If you want to file this as some unjust war then go for it, but don't crap all over his example because you feel otherwise.
You do or don't support the war. That's your view and you are damn well allowed to have it, but if you sign up for a service that involves danger, don't pull out a guilt trip card to play off that person's signed on responsibilities. There was not a draft.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 11/05/04 - 05:58 Post subject:
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| Queen of Jews wrote: | | I bet more people have died in the US in 1 year, then people who have died in the Iraq War since it started |
Dude...Like 3 times as many people were killed in Iraq in the past year than were murdered in Detroit. THEY DON'T COMPARE!!!
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Starks
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 865
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Posted: 11/05/04 - 12:10 Post subject:
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The military does not train for war. The military trains to PROTECT THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Now as of why will the US never do anything about North Korea? There are many many reasons and almost each of them involves China.
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Melee
Luke Warm
Joined: 24 Mar 2003
Posts: 185
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Posted: 11/05/04 - 16:38 Post subject: Re: Why I dislike Bush (meant to true post)
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| gotissues68 wrote: | | I also disagree with the way it was handled to begin with. I dislike Saddam Hussein just like everyone else, in fact I despise him and I'm glad he's gone, he was/is a worthless sack of shit. However the claim was that Iraq had WMD's which has been found to be unsubstantiated (atleast in the quantities that the adminstration would have had you believe there was at the time of the request to congress to declare war). If our president had looked directly into the camera and said "I don't like this m**********r I want him dead or captured" then I'm cool with that. Don't be an opportunist with the war on terror and use that as your in. Just be f*****g honest about your intentions. |
then later posted:
| confused wrote: | | Dude...Like 3 times as many people were killed in Iraq in the past year than were murdered in Detroit. THEY DON'T COMPARE!!! |
And the point of this was was what?
ohh, to get Sadamm out of power, ...that makes sense he was the perfect scapegoat for our "badguy terrorist". Seeing how we couldn't give the people Osama, because the Bush family/administration, has toomany financial ties w/ the Binladen family, and the Saudis.... Our U.S dollar is dropping quick w/o every country in Europe hording U.Sdollars to buy our oil. I guess he had to do somthing to keep them from buying it with Euros. Our economy was about to fall quick.
I hope now that he is back in office, he can pull our troops out. People are starting to find out the only reason we are still over there was to get him re-elected.
hmm I smell 1world order on tomarrows dinner plate=/
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 11/06/04 - 16:57 Post subject:
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| Khrath wrote: | why are people still harping about WMD?
Bush used that as an excuse to get rid of Saddam, it isn't why we got rid of him. Saddam is an evil man, guilty of the worst crimes imaginable, who was in charge of a rich and powerful country.
WMD was just a smokescreen used to keep the international community off our ass long enough to get the job finished.
. |
so it is not ok to lie about the b******b you got but it is ok to make shit up and lie public to get them to back you into going to war ?
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Zab
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 1222
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Posted: 11/06/04 - 17:02 Post subject:
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| Oggabish wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | Dead is dead.
How is it different? |
The chance of dying in a war is much higher than in regular civilian surroundings. That's the difference. |
Where do you live? By yourself 50 miles from nowhere. f**k, we have more people killed in the states on the street just because they wore the wrong type of shirt or hat than there have been killed in Iraq. You want to talk about senseless killings go read your local newspaper or watch your local news. Atleast the people in the military have a purpose.
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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 11/06/04 - 17:02 Post subject:
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| Brash wrote: | | Khrath wrote: | why are people still harping about WMD?
Bush used that as an excuse to get rid of Saddam, it isn't why we got rid of him. Saddam is an evil man, guilty of the worst crimes imaginable, who was in charge of a rich and powerful country.
WMD was just a smokescreen used to keep the international community off our ass long enough to get the job finished.
. |
so it is not ok to lie about the b******b you got but it is ok to make shit up and lie public to get them to back you into going to war ? |
See, that's where you're wrong. Bush still believes(as do I)that there are WMD in Iraq. We have found a very small number of shells with Sarin and Mustard gas but no large cache yet. That doesn't mean it isn't there and Iraq is just one giant desert to hide shit in. It isn't a lie; no one has proven that Iraq has no WMD. Even if it was proven it wouldn't be a lie..every time you're wrong about something did you "lie"?
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Zab
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 1222
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Posted: 11/06/04 - 17:06 Post subject: Re: Add on
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| Runzik wrote: | Just as a little add on to what has already been discussed,
Another major reason that Bush went after Iraq was simply for the control of the oil. It brings to mind the statement of
The golden rule
He who has the gold makes the rules. Its no secret that Bush wanted control of the largest supply of oil in the world and if Iraq continued to keep control of the oil supplies the US would be in major trouble had Saddam decided it was time to s***w with the US again.
I know that the smoke screen provided by the gov. on many issues is thick, but it always has been. Kennedy assassination, The space program, the plane that went down in PA 9/11, and the fact that a 757 hit the Pentagon 9/11.
Also the fact that none of this stuff was known and/or planned by some gov. officials is complete BS, I agree that they probably didn't know that it would be this big but they knew something was going down. There is an angle on EVERYTHING IN LIFE, just gotta look for the angles. Who profits from the attacks who profits from the war. Its all about profit.
The information that is given to the public is given to the public with 110% crowd control in mind. There are experts that have 1 job working for the government and that job is damage control, translation BS the american public. And as Khrath stated "" WMD was just a smokescreen used to keep the international community off our ass long enough to get the job finished"" is absouletly correct.
tC |
You have to be one of the most retarded f*****g people ever to post on these boards if you think we did this for oil. Have you looked at the prices of gas lately? you must have to ride your bike to work you 10 year old f**k.
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 11/06/04 - 17:09 Post subject: Re: Add on
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| Zab wrote: | | Runzik wrote: | Just as a little add on to what has already been discussed,
Another major reason that Bush went after Iraq was simply for the control of the oil. It brings to mind the statement of
The golden rule
He who has the gold makes the rules. Its no secret that Bush wanted control of the largest supply of oil in the world and if Iraq continued to keep control of the oil supplies the US would be in major trouble had Saddam decided it was time to s***w with the US again.
I know that the smoke screen provided by the gov. on many issues is thick, but it always has been. Kennedy assassination, The space program, the plane that went down in PA 9/11, and the fact that a 757 hit the Pentagon 9/11.
Also the fact that none of this stuff was known and/or planned by some gov. officials is complete BS, I agree that they probably didn't know that it would be this big but they knew something was going down. There is an angle on EVERYTHING IN LIFE, just gotta look for the angles. Who profits from the attacks who profits from the war. Its all about profit.
The information that is given to the public is given to the public with 110% crowd control in mind. There are experts that have 1 job working for the government and that job is damage control, translation BS the american public. And as Khrath stated "" WMD was just a smokescreen used to keep the international community off our ass long enough to get the job finished"" is absouletly correct.
tC |
You have to be one of the most retarded f*****g people ever to post on these boards if you think we did this for oil. Have you looked at the prices of gas lately? you must have to ride your bike to work you 10 year old f**k. |
Now tell me that he beat me and ill pout.
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Oggabish
Luke Warm
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 201
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Posted: 11/07/04 - 02:50 Post subject:
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| Zab wrote: | | Oggabish wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | Dead is dead.
How is it different? |
The chance of dying in a war is much higher than in regular civilian surroundings. That's the difference. |
Where do you live? By yourself 50 miles from nowhere. f**k, we have more people killed in the states on the street just because they wore the wrong type of shirt or hat than there have been killed in Iraq. You want to talk about senseless killings go read your local newspaper or watch your local news. Atleast the people in the military have a purpose. |
And what purpose that might be?
I grew up in a big city, but never heard that a car bomb exploded somewhere in the city, or that another suicide bomber killed more civilians... well... then again, Bush wasn't president back then.
DON'T try to argue that it's safer during war time than it is during peace. That's just f*****g retarded.
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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 11/07/04 - 08:35 Post subject:
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| Oggabish wrote: | | Zab wrote: | | Oggabish wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | Dead is dead.
How is it different? |
The chance of dying in a war is much higher than in regular civilian surroundings. That's the difference. |
Where do you live? By yourself 50 miles from nowhere. f**k, we have more people killed in the states on the street just because they wore the wrong type of shirt or hat than there have been killed in Iraq. You want to talk about senseless killings go read your local newspaper or watch your local news. Atleast the people in the military have a purpose. |
And what purpose that might be?
I grew up in a big city, but never heard that a car bomb exploded somewhere in the city, or that another suicide bomber killed more civilians... well... then again, Bush wasn't president back then.
DON'T try to argue that it's safer during war time than it is during peace. That's just f*****g retarded. |
Well we do have higher murder rates..
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 11/08/04 - 16:13 Post subject:
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| Zab wrote: | | Oggabish wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | Dead is dead.
How is it different? |
The chance of dying in a war is much higher than in regular civilian surroundings. That's the difference. |
Where do you live? By yourself 50 miles from nowhere. f**k, we have more people killed in the states on the street just because they wore the wrong type of shirt or hat than there have been killed in Iraq. You want to talk about senseless killings go read your local newspaper or watch your local news. Atleast the people in the military have a purpose. |
Shut the f**k up. You're just a p***y air force b***h.
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Desaitar
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 2641
Location: whore island
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Posted: 11/08/04 - 16:18 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | I grew up in a big city, but never heard that a car bomb exploded somewhere in the city, or that another suicide bomber killed more civilians... well... then again, Bush wasn't president back then. |
Re-think that. I'm glad you are seeing what the middle east has been like for years and years, but it has nothing to do with Bush being President.
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