Who needs help first? :: Ultimate MMORPG Gaming Community & Trading Zone

Ashley
Toomuchtimeonhands

Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 907
Location: Amfek.org

Posted: 08/07/04 - 00:34 Post subject: Who needs help first?

Ok, just wondering what realpoorians would think... Poverty and living-conditions-wise (not considering rights/freedoms etc) Are people in the United States of America (ie hillbillies with generations of poverty, lack of education, lack of available aid) in a more dire situation? or Is the problem more desperate in other countries (ie citizens of 3rd world countries with no available food, water, etc)?

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Desaitar
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 2641
Location: whore island

Posted: 08/07/04 - 00:47 Post subject:

some third world countries have it like 4530543 worse than us, tho i think we cross the line on how much we should do sometimes and should worry about our own more often. the question says who needs tho, so definetely them.

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Zab
Sir Postalot

Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 1222

Posted: 08/07/04 - 01:02 Post subject:

fk the world right now. We need to get out shit straight then worry about the mother f***s in other countries.

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Booker
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2562
Location: Corvallis, Oregon

Posted: 08/07/04 - 01:07 Post subject:

while i do sometimes think that we should "f**k everyone else", people in this country have many ways to better themselves and get out of poverty whereas people in other countries have no means to escape their condition. famine, lack of infrastructure, rampant disease, and "evil" governments aren't hampering the poor people of this country.

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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot

Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179

Posted: 08/07/04 - 06:55 Post subject:

The question wasn't 'Should we help other countries?', the question was who should we help first? There can really be only one answer in my opinion. Our responsibility is to ourselves first. Given a choice between improving Zaire or improving South Central, I'll choose South Central every single time. It really isn't important to me that even the poorest American is relatively well off. One of the basic promises we make to every American citizen is that everyone is given a fair chance. There are areas in the country where people undoubtedly are not given a fair chance. Addressing this issue should be one of our highest priorities. It takes precedence over the general welfare of the citizens of another country. To be clear, this does not excuse our obligation to the people of the world in dealing with humanitarian crisises nor does it negate our interest in developing 3rd world countries. Developing markets and helping to avert disaster are still among our responsibilities, both to ourselves and our future and to the world and it's future. We must strive to help others but ultimately, our first and primary allegiance is to the United States and it's citizens. We cannot better the world at the cost of our own country nor can we better it at the cost of the welfare of our own citizens.

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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL

Posted: 08/07/04 - 10:39 Post subject:

Who cares. People can take care of themselves if they really want to. Too many just take the easy way out and cry "so and so is keeping me down!". And between the US and some shit-hole 3rd world country..f**k em! Only the strong will survive so it's their job to make their life better.

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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers

Posted: 08/07/04 - 11:36 Post subject:

Scrabler you are how old? 16?

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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044

Posted: 08/07/04 - 11:47 Post subject:

First of all, one specific question was "who's situation is more dire?". As far as that goes, I think it's safe to say that you can certainly find people in the world who's situation is more dire than that of people in the US. I don't think that necessarily has anything to do with "who should you help first?", since poverty and misery will never be abolished. So if you commit yourself to solving one or the other first, you guarantee the other will never be addressed because you'll never finish the first one. So for allocating resources, you have two driving forces: charity and strategy. Charity says help everyone, but those more in need should get more help, wherever they happen to be. Strategy says help where the money can be used most effectively (e.g. not squandered or stolen, and where we may be able to encourage others to help if we initiate), where lack of aid would cause unrest which could be a threat to stability, and where aid can tilt public perception in our favor. So I say, estimate the coefficients, plug them into the equation, configure your total amount of aid, and the amounts to be spent in all the diverse areas should be computable

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Paco
RealPoor Jedi

Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Posted: 08/07/04 - 13:02 Post subject:

so long as there are those within the US on welfare or homeless, our situation should be dire way to turn your back on your fellow americans and ignore them, hoping they'll go away we should fix our own shit before giving a damn about other countries poverty can be fixed. so what the fk? what kind of kind hearted liberal are you if you turn your back on this country..so eager to help other countries, to try to look good for who the fk knows? might cold hearted of you to say anyone saying we shouldn't address the issues in our own country is f**d in the head. and fk you if you think there's worse off people out there..there is, but there are people within the US just as deserving, just as worse off, just as needing. you holier than thou people, who say abortion is murder..fk you. fk your snotty agendas. fk your religious convictions. f***g hypocrits.

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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL

Posted: 08/07/04 - 13:24 Post subject:

Frax wrote:

Scrabler you are how old? 16?

Atm yes. And I'm sure I can answer the next question with: No I don't give a shit about any other country or the poor.

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Paco
RealPoor Jedi

Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Posted: 08/07/04 - 15:33 Post subject:

Scrabler wrote:

Frax wrote:

Scrabler you are how old? 16?

Atm yes. And I'm sure I can answer the next question with: No I don't give a shit about any other country or the poor.

Not really the next question, but the next statement:

You don't count for anything, opinionwise. That's why the age question. Sure, you can have an opinion, but quite frankly, you're not old enough to know d**k about the way things are. And don't get all bitchy cause I'm ragging on your age. You'll be like that for at least another 10 years to boot, so get used to it.

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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL

Posted: 08/07/04 - 16:05 Post subject:

Paco wrote:

Scrabler wrote:

Frax wrote:

Scrabler you are how old? 16?

Atm yes. And I'm sure I can answer the next question with: No I don't give a shit about any other country or the poor.

Not really the next question, but the next statement:

You don't count for anything, opinionwise. That's why the age question. Sure, you can have an opinion, but quite frankly, you're not old enough to know d**k about the way things are. And don't get all bitchy cause I'm ragging on your age. You'll be like that for at least another 10 years to boot, so get used to it.

Yeah..but another couple years and I'll be killing those s****y 3rd world bastards. Wink

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Yellow Journalist
RealPoor Sensei

Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 1973

Posted: 08/07/04 - 16:31 Post subject:

Or theyll kill you

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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot

Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL

Posted: 08/07/04 - 16:36 Post subject: -==-

Our help isn't exactly wanted most of the time anyways i.e. South Korea, I saw we focus on ourselves.

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Yellow Journalist
RealPoor Sensei

Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 1973

Posted: 08/07/04 - 16:53 Post subject:

Theres a famous quote that goes like this.... "Help yourself before you help others " hmmm

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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730

Posted: 08/07/04 - 19:14 Post subject:

Promote Democracy and Independence. Condemn tyrrany and socialism. This has been proven to solve the world's ills.

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Guest

Posted: 08/07/04 - 20:57 Post subject:

Paco wrote:

Scrabler wrote:

Frax wrote:

Scrabler you are how old? 16?

Atm yes. And I'm sure I can answer the next question with: No I don't give a shit about any other country or the poor.

Not really the next question, but the next statement:

You don't count for anything, opinionwise. That's why the age question. Sure, you can have an opinion, but quite frankly, you're not old enough to know d**k about the way things are. And don't get all bitchy cause I'm ragging on your age. You'll be like that for at least another 10 years to boot, so get used to it.

lol

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Frostkiss
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 2018

Posted: 08/07/04 - 21:39 Post subject:

Aids prevention in 3rd world countries. I mean, Africa remains "untouched" when it comes to low-wage-production areas such as Asia. Once these countries like Zambia, Sudan become less "dangerous" and politicaly stable, aids might become more of a problem. I'm not saying they should get any kind of priority, but it's something to consider imo.

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Kenbin
RealPoor Sensei

Joined: 15 Nov 2002
Posts: 1884
Location: New York City

Posted: 08/07/04 - 21:40 Post subject:

Scrabler wrote:

Paco wrote:

Scrabler wrote:

Frax wrote:

Scrabler you are how old? 16?

Atm yes. And I'm sure I can answer the next question with: No I don't give a shit about any other country or the poor.

Not really the next question, but the next statement:

You don't count for anything, opinionwise. That's why the age question. Sure, you can have an opinion, but quite frankly, you're not old enough to know d**k about the way things are. And don't get all bitchy cause I'm ragging on your age. You'll be like that for at least another 10 years to boot, so get used to it.

Yeah..but another couple years and I'll be killing those s****y 3rd world bastards. Wink

Wow, a 16 year old white trash Paden clone. AWESOME.

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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL

Posted: 08/07/04 - 22:34 Post subject:

Kenbin wrote:

Scrabler wrote:

Paco wrote:

Scrabler wrote:

Frax wrote:

Scrabler you are how old? 16?

Atm yes. And I'm sure I can answer the next question with: No I don't give a shit about any other country or the poor.

Not really the next question, but the next statement:

You don't count for anything, opinionwise. That's why the age question. Sure, you can have an opinion, but quite frankly, you're not old enough to know d**k about the way things are. And don't get all bitchy cause I'm ragging on your age. You'll be like that for at least another 10 years to boot, so get used to it.

Yeah..but another couple years and I'll be killing those s****y 3rd world bastards. Wink

Wow, a 16 year old white trash Paden clone. AWESOME.

Sorta, though I don't leave my truck unlocked so people can steal shit out of my yard.

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Brael
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2122

Posted: 08/07/04 - 23:36 Post subject:

Paco, as long as welfare exists there will be people who live on it. Theres lazy people out there, and as long as they get money for doing nothing they will do it. Unfortunatley theres people who genuinely need welfare so if you flat out eliminate it some needy people will be screwed over. The best you can really do with is to encourage the people who can help themselves to help themselves. It's not the type of thing that you can just throw money at to remove the problem.

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Juzzkiddin
Luke Warm

Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 190

Posted: 08/08/04 - 03:43 Post subject:

I agree with Desaiter on the fact that other third-world countries need our help, but why do we always have to play hero? And on top of that whenever we do try and help other countries it seems to backfire and blow up in our face. I mean look how well bringing democracy to Iraq has worked. So I vote for getting our own shit together.

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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot

Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179

Posted: 08/08/04 - 08:16 Post subject:

Juzzkiddin wrote:

I agree with Desaiter on the fact that other third-world countries need our help, but why do we always have to play hero? And on top of that whenever we do try and help other countries it seems to backfire and blow up in our face. I mean look how well bringing democracy to Iraq has worked. So I vote for getting our own shit together.

Some of you make me really sad. Yes, let's look at how well bringing democracy to Iraq has worked. An interim government is in place that is at least semi-representative of the population and is showing the capacity to maintain peace and stability in a country that desperately needs it. Governmental elections are scheduled to occur in January 2005 which is a HUGE step up in the timeline of when elections were going to be held while Saddam was in power. What a horrible failure the attempt to bring democracy to Iraq has been. Rolling Eyes

frostkiss wrote:

Aids prevention in 3rd world countries. I mean, Africa remains "untouched" when it comes to low-wage-production areas such as Asia. Once these countries like Zambia, Sudan become less "dangerous" and politicaly stable, aids might become more of a problem. I'm not saying they should get any kind of priority, but it's something to consider imo.

I'm not really sure what to make of this. I'm not saying anything negative about it. I just don't understand what this really has to do with the topic. Sad

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Paco
RealPoor Jedi

Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Posted: 08/08/04 - 11:53 Post subject:

You should just ignore Frostbitch. She doesn't count, not being in the US, by default. Let canada or belgium for that matter, help the f***s learn about aids in africa. Altho if she bothered to follow up on her own uninformed statement, she'd see that aids in africa has made a huge change since groups like the red cross started informing the masses there. Ignorant people posting "facts" ps me off. Well, it leads me to think that people like her are gullible and maybe we can get her to send money...so I can buy another computer or something.

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Frostkiss
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 2018

Posted: 08/08/04 - 16:23 Post subject:

Paco wrote:

You should just ignore Frostbitch. She doesn't count, not being in the US, by default. Let canada or belgium for that matter, help the f*****s learn about aids in africa. Altho if she bothered to follow up on her own uninformed statement, she'd see that aids in africa has made a huge change since groups like the red cross started informing the masses there.

Ignorant people posting "facts" p**s me off. Well, it leads me to think that people like her are gullible and maybe we can get her to send money...so I can buy another computer or something.

First off, I didn't say the us had to help anyone, I never said I give "facts" either. I clearly mentioned "imo" and "no priority". I actually volonteer with the Red Cross, in Belgium (since I am 16) and in Canada (although only 12 hours/week), so I am might be more informed then you. I've been a blood donor since I am 16 aswell for the Red Cross, and am listed as a donor incase anyone needs bonemerg (sp). My parents are a part of Foster Plan, and have spent months and months there, visiting camps of the most "infected" areas, often needing extra visa's, simply because of Aids victims are pretty much dying on the streets. I do think Aids might become more of a problem when production will move there (if it ever reaches political rest).

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Frostkiss
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 2018

Posted: 08/08/04 - 16:32 Post subject:

Nuldaan wrote:

frostkiss wrote:

Aids prevention in 3rd world countries. I mean, Africa remains "untouched" when it comes to low-wage-production areas such as Asia. Once these countries like Zambia, Sudan become less "dangerous" and politicaly stable, aids might become more of a problem. I'm not saying they should get any kind of priority, but it's something to consider imo.

I'm not really sure what to make of this. I'm not saying anything negative about it. I just don't understand what this really has to do with the topic. Sad

I thought the topic was "who needs our help more". I don't know to what degree there's poverty in the states, and what you could possibly do to make it better for some people, I do think that 3rd world countries and aids might affect other countries at one point, when low-wage production will be moved towards Africa, that until today hasn't been "used".

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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal

Posted: 08/08/04 - 16:35 Post subject:

Aids prevention in 3rd world countries? easy dumb them millions of condom boxes and after that some pappers saying : USE THEM OR DIE. They know how big is their aids problem yet they f**k no stop...c'mon they need to help themselves a little bit.

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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers

Posted: 08/08/04 - 16:50 Post subject:

There are long term economic reasons why modern countries won't go too far out of their way to stop the spread of HIV in third-world nations. Anyone who lives in a nice modern society can easiliy see why.

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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot

Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179

Posted: 08/08/04 - 17:43 Post subject:

Frostkiss wrote:

Nuldaan wrote:

frostkiss wrote:

Aids prevention in 3rd world countries. I mean, Africa remains "untouched" when it comes to low-wage-production areas such as Asia. Once these countries like Zambia, Sudan become less "dangerous" and politicaly stable, aids might become more of a problem. I'm not saying they should get any kind of priority, but it's something to consider imo.

I'm not really sure what to make of this. I'm not saying anything negative about it. I just don't understand what this really has to do with the topic. Sad

I thought the topic was "who needs our help more". I don't know to what degree there's poverty in the states, and what you could possibly do to make it better for some people, I do think that 3rd world countries and aids might affect other countries at one point, when low-wage production will be moved towards Africa, that until today hasn't been "used".

Fair enough. I guess we just read the question differently.

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Paco
RealPoor Jedi

Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Posted: 08/08/04 - 18:02 Post subject:

Frostkiss wrote:

Paco wrote:

You should just ignore Frostbitch. She doesn't count, not being in the US, by default. Let canada or belgium for that matter, help the f*****s learn about aids in africa. Altho if she bothered to follow up on her own uninformed statement, she'd see that aids in africa has made a huge change since groups like the red cross started informing the masses there.

Ignorant people posting "facts" p**s me off. Well, it leads me to think that people like her are gullible and maybe we can get her to send money...so I can buy another computer or something.

First off, I didn't say the us had to help anyone, I never said I give "facts" either. I clearly mentioned "imo" and "no priority". I actually volonteer with the Red Cross, in Belgium (since I am 16) and in Canada (although only 12 hours/week), so I am might be more informed then you. I've been a blood donor since I am 16 aswell for the Red Cross, and am listed as a donor incase anyone needs bonemerg (sp). My parents are a part of Foster Plan, and have spent months and months there, visiting camps of the most "infected" areas, often needing extra visa's, simply because of Aids victims are pretty much dying on the streets. I do think Aids might become more of a problem when production will move there (if it ever reaches political rest).

Pay attention in school, learn to understand what's being said to you:

This thread is about the United States, not "your opinion". You felt you had to speak up in this thread, for your noble beliefs, or just to read your own words..so I pointed out the error in your posting. You still didn't get it. You are not American. Shut the f**k up. It's that simple. You do ZERO for ANYTHING related to the US. Why you might ask? Because you're not a citizen. Your word means crap. Your opinion is wasted where it doesn't belong.

Now then..I've been donating blood since before you were born. I have a rare blood type, and so they love me for donating my blood. Does that really matter here? I don't think so. So who f*****g cares if you donate blood? I'm pretty sure alot of folks here have, and guess what..they're not saying shit about it. Shit, I'm even an organ doner..does that make me better than the next person? I don't think so. You're donating for personal satisfaction, not bragging rights. It's a humane thing to do, to donate life to others, not something to brag about, and in the very least, look down someone's nose at because you think you're better than someone else.

You have a nice day and sleep well tonite knowing you sure showed the arrogant Americans a thing or two.

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