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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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 Posted: 05/17/05 - 19:18 Post subject: What made these gaming experiences so great?
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Anyone else remember the legend of zelda, zelda 2, rygar and a few other games as phenomenal? I remember Golgo 13 and wrapping myself up in the story, really, desperately wanting to win. I remember running around in the little towns, thinking if I looked hard enough I would find some kind of secret, something hidden or clever, that no other player had seen.
I felt that way in EQ a lot of the time, too. They say only 80% (or so?) of the total amount of quests in EQ have been solved. Unfortunately, I couldn't find even 1 without spoilers on allakhazam.
I knew there was no chance of that in WoW. Huge, flashing yellow markers (exclamation points) danced above NPC heads. "CLICK ME, WISE PLAYER. CLICK ME FOR A TASK. CLICK --- -!!!!HERE!!!!- ---" It was kind of hard to miss.
Maybe I want too much mystery, too much G in "MMORPG" when all the developers cater toward the "MM."
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Psink
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 872
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 19:25 Post subject:
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Fallout 2 was fun yay!
I only played legend of zelda for a little while because console controls will always be s****y.
Anyway the thing that made Fallout 2 fun was that it seemed like you could do nearly anything!
Shooting someone in the eye with a gauss rifle and watching their body split in half and fall to the ground was pretty fun!
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TASB
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1104
Location: The Outback
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 19:39 Post subject:
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All those games offered something new. Games these days are starting to fall into the same patturn as movies. Almost every movie you go see now, you have seen before. They are cookie cutter molds of each other. EQ was the first game that you really felt like you were part of the world and not just an observer. You also had identity and the ability to play how you wanted to play. You had freedom. Well you did during the first year or so of EQ.
Compair the start of WOW to the start of EQ. In EQ everyone was new and had to learn how to PLAY the game. It took people so long to each 50 that it really meant something. Appart from the hell levels people didn't complain too much about the leveling pace. In EQ everyone went in already knowing how to play it. The base concepts and strategies were already second nature. There was no real mistery. Classic example. At the start of EQ there wasn't even a concept of crowd control. Now people expect it.
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Nictathan
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5531
Location: here... where I am... not with you
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 19:55 Post subject:
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| TASB wrote: | All those games offered something new. Games these days are starting to fall into the same patturn as movies. Almost every movie you go see now, you have seen before. They are cookie cutter molds of each other. EQ was the first game that you really felt like you were part of the world and not just an observer. You also had identity and the ability to play how you wanted to play. You had freedom. Well you did during the first year or so of EQ.
Compair the start of WOW to the start of EQ. In EQ everyone was new and had to learn how to PLAY the game. It took people so long to each 50 that it really meant something. Appart from the hell levels people didn't complain too much about the leveling pace. In EQ everyone went in already knowing how to play it. The base concepts and strategies were already second nature. There was no real mistery. Classic example. At the start of EQ there wasn't even a concept of crowd control. Now people expect it. |
WTF is mesmerize good for? SHIT... not like the cleric can't keep up!
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kireol
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 9517
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 19:55 Post subject:
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I enjoyed the nerfs, the donkey and carrot factor, and LFG for 5 hours as a cleric only to just roll a monk and rogue and a paladin so i could duo with myself on my cleric. Oh wait. that's the stuff I hated. my bad
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Kilzalot
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 2080
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 20:54 Post subject:
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Been playing Shining Force for the Genesis.... love that game!
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Deiahova
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 317
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 20:55 Post subject:
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I don't know what it was about EQ that I got so immersed in the game. I would spend weeks at the same level, I just wanted to log in and chat with people, do some leveling, if the opportunity arose work on some quests. It was as if the world was something more real than WoW or EQ2.
WoW seems just geared toward level, level and level some more. Theres little community building, no "hey I kinda know this guy we should do something together." I only really play with a few people, sometimes asking guildies for help, but then its only a few, maybe one. There's no raiding Hate or the Hole for epic parts. I see people once and forget them.
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kireol
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 9517
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 21:06 Post subject:
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EQ
Buying/selling gear. both in EC and when it got released bazaar vendors
Armor/weapons that were super hard to get that made you stand out
Challenging geography. Zoning into fear and mobs right there.
I'll never do it again, but putting in 2893472893742389 hours and being higher than almost everyone else.
WOW
ez to follow quests.
traveling
NO DOWN TIME
Vendor system
class balance
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 21:08 Post subject:
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240 days spent looking at the eye candy driving a cartoon around a cartoon world.
Very productive......
Video games are a waste of life. As much an addiction as any other.
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16398
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 21:15 Post subject:
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| Kbarr wrote: | 240 days spent looking at the eye candy driving a cartoon around a cartoon world.
Very productive......
Video games are a waste of life. As much an addiction as any other.
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what isnt a waste of life?
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 21:24 Post subject:
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| atarom wrote: | | Kbarr wrote: | 240 days spent looking at the eye candy driving a cartoon around a cartoon world.
Very productive......
Video games are a waste of life. As much an addiction as any other.
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what isnt a waste of life? |
Being active in the real world. Doing real things.
Not being glued to a computer screen with an addiction to cartoons.
If you think sitting in a chair, staring at colors in a glass tube, eating food, not moving around, for 240 days is a productive use of your allotted time on earth, then you are still addicted.
BTWTIALQ
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rosie
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 665
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 21:25 Post subject:
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EQ used to be so great. The prospect of being able to explore this fantastical world was really exciting to me, and it's what i spent my time doing down to the last days /played. One of my favorite places was Solusek A. It seemed so deep, and I always hoped they'd add more on to it (there was a portion that seemed incomplete). Most of my memories from the games are "firsts," as in the first time I travelled from Qeynos to Freeport, or the first time I met Kbarr (I think it was him anyway, he was with some guy named Kagal in North Ro and I accused them both of being twinks in their shiny bronze armor). Sometimes I'd like to go back and do it all again, see the changes they made to the old world and such. Mistmoore was probably my second favorite zone. I used to sit in that tower for hours. I hear they've made some changes to it.
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16398
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 21:28 Post subject:
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i was just gettin all philosophical on your ass old man.
calling something a waste of time isn't really a truthful statement.
their is no way to waste time.
going outside is no less of a waste.
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 21:32 Post subject:
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| rosie wrote: | | EQ used to be so great. The prospect of being able to explore this fantastical world was really exciting to me, and it's what i spent my time doing down to the last days /played. One of my favorite places was Solusek A. It seemed so deep, and I always hoped they'd add more on to it (there was a portion that seemed incomplete). Most of my memories from the games are "firsts," as in the first time I travelled from Qeynos to Freeport, or the first time I met Kbarr (I think it was him anyway, he was with some guy named Kagal in North Ro and I accused them both of being twinks in their shiny bronze armor). Sometimes I'd like to go back and do it all again, see the changes they made to the old world and such. Mistmoore was probably my second favorite zone. I used to sit in that tower for hours. I hear they've made some changes to it. |
LOL, Kagal:) My bud Jeff from Pittsburg. I still talk to him in email. I used to buy low sell high on bronze, back when it was the standard! All his armor were freebies from me. I was RICH for lv 15 in full steel!
Man, what a waste of time....
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 21:35 Post subject:
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| atarom wrote: | i was just gettin all philosophical on your ass old man.
calling something a waste of time isn't really a truthful statement.
their is no way to waste time.
going outside is no less of a waste. |
If you honestly believe that, then why go to school? Wouldn't it be less effort to just move to a warm state and be a bum?
Your turn.
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Aviger
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1509
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 21:49 Post subject:
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| Kbarr wrote: | 240 days spent looking at the eye candy driving a cartoon around a cartoon world.
Very productive......
Video games are a waste of life. As much an addiction as any other.
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That's a loaded statement, and also to generic.
There people who made millions playing video games (Yantis/IGE anyone), and others made cash to
I personally made more money of EQ then i put into it, not to mention the accoutns i still have i could sell 
A hobby that makes you money != waste of life.
Going of your reasoning, posting on realpoor = waste of life
Hello pot, this is kettle...
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 21:53 Post subject:
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| Aviger wrote: | | Kbarr wrote: | 240 days spent looking at the eye candy driving a cartoon around a cartoon world.
Very productive......
Video games are a waste of life. As much an addiction as any other.
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That's a loaded statement, and also to generic.
There people who made millions playing video games (Yantis/IGE anyone), and others made cash to
I personally made more money of EQ then i put into it, not to mention the accoutns i still have i could sell
A hobby that makes you money != waste of life.
Going of your reasoning, posting on realpoor = waste of life
Hello pot, this is kettle... |
I'm not talking about playing monopoly for 2 hrs. Or playing any video game for a short period of time.
I'm talking addiction, and you know that.
Why do you think it was nicknamed evercrack. Plenty of people made money selling crack while using it. Most people didn't, they were just addicted and wasted time.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 21:57 Post subject:
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What does BTWTIALQ mean?
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IceIsFun
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 781
Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 22:00 Post subject:
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| Kbarr wrote: | | atarom wrote: | | Kbarr wrote: | 240 days spent looking at the eye candy driving a cartoon around a cartoon world.
Very productive......
Video games are a waste of life. As much an addiction as any other.
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what isnt a waste of life? |
Being active in the real world. Doing real things.
Not being glued to a computer screen with an addiction to cartoons.
If you think sitting in a chair, staring at colors in a glass tube, eating food, not moving around, for 240 days is a productive use of your allotted time on earth, then you are still addicted.
BTWTIALQ |
I've got to agree with Kbarr on this one. And very few people have spent more time playing EQ than I did. If I'd put the same energy into my career for that time period, I'd have been able to retire by 30.
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16398
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 22:03 Post subject:
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if woving to a warm state and being a bum would make you happy, then yes. you should do it.
Everyone in the world should pursue happiness that doesnt infringe upon the happiness of others. So if killing people makes you happy, that's not exactly fair.
But when it comes to playing games or going hiking or enjoying a bottle of colt 45, to each their own.
The real question is this: Does playing these video games really make you happy?
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Brael
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2122
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Posted: 05/17/05 - 23:53 Post subject:
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For 99.9999% of all people who play EQ though Yak, it doesn't get played anymore than another hobby does. I personally see zero difference between the person who goes to a bar, club, etc... for a few hours on a Saturday night, and the person who spends it on EQ. However, by the same logic a person who goes out and gets drunk for 8 hours or something each and every day/night is about the same as the person who plays EQ that much every day. Call it an addition if you want, but when it comes down to it... EQ and most any other MMORPG is simply an extremly cheap form of entertainment and isn't any worse for a person than bowling, golfing, <insert approved recreational activity that "normal" people do here> for a similar length of time.
Serious quesiton for people that always put down EQ while praising the merits of going out and doing whatever. How is that more healthy than EQ?
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 05/18/05 - 00:33 Post subject:
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| Brael wrote: | For 99.9999% of all people who play EQ though Yak, it doesn't get played anymore than another hobby does. I personally see zero difference between the person who goes to a bar, club, etc... for a few hours on a Saturday night, and the person who spends it on EQ. However, by the same logic a person who goes out and gets drunk for 8 hours or something each and every day/night is about the same as the person who plays EQ that much every day. Call it an addition if you want, but when it comes down to it... EQ and most any other MMORPG is simply an extremly cheap form of entertainment and isn't any worse for a person than bowling, golfing, <insert approved recreational activity that "normal" people do here> for a similar length of time.
Serious quesiton for people that always put down EQ while praising the merits of going out and doing whatever. How is that more healthy than EQ? |
I always wondered at this myself. I hear this one a lot "Man you need to go out to a bar and meet some real people"
Since when are people you find in bars any more real than people you meet online?
-Nah-
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Soriak
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 952
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Posted: 05/18/05 - 00:40 Post subject:
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There's a billion people who watch TV every spare minute and don't get why people waste their time playing computer games - somehow the former isn't considered an addiction...
Anyway back to the point:
One of the reasons EQ was such a success is, that there's always something you can still do. Hit lvl 70? work on AA, upgrade your gear (either raid or through single-group content), get augments (raid or single-group mission reward), do one of the 7 (I think?) tradeskills, help a friend with a quest - by the time you get bored, there'll be a new expansion with more stuff to do and new AA skills to get.
That's probably why EQ, after 6 years, still has 150-200 people in PoK every night.
The great single player RPGs also have small gimmicks that keep you playing - the mini games in Final Fantasy for example. In FF X you have that waterball game, a whole little sub-game with it's own system, and it's fun for a while.
Every character has an epic weapon, that involves some serious time investment and isn't necessary to complete the game - but it's a challenge, and it's what makes the game great.
X-2 had a lot of content you didn't "have" to do too. First time I finished the game I had about 72%... finishing with 100% would get you a special ending, which I thought was a great idea. Played it again, with a checklist, and it was fun to see all the things I missed. (and there was a LOT)
Things like this make games fun. They give you options, let you do more than just one thing. If you're tired of leveling in EQ, you can do tradeskills. If you want a break from killing things in FFX, you do a minigame. => options & choices = fun.
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Aviger
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1509
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Posted: 05/18/05 - 00:44 Post subject:
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Some perspective.
Had i not played EQ, i would not have met 2 of the best friends i ever had.
I flew out to NY to hang out with one when he worked there, saw NY, had tons of fun.
Then i travelled to LA many, many times and met at least 20-25 more people (all friends of friends etc) that i would NEVER have met not playing EQ.
I even moved to LA last year to go to college with the help of those EQ friends, something which would have been almost impossible (and with my lazyness, totally impossible ) withot them.
Playing a game has given me more social life then going out to bars ever did.
Corse, this is me. some people play EQ 24/7 and never see sunlight. That's an addiction..
It can go both ways, the GAME (or hobby, recreational sport) is never the issue, it's the person who plays it.
People onyl say "you wasted your life on X" if X is something they either wasted their own life on and can't cope, or dont like X
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dablobb
Sir Postalot
Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Posts: 1263
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Posted: 05/18/05 - 00:49 Post subject:
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| Kbarr wrote: | | rosie wrote: | | EQ used to be so great. The prospect of being able to explore this fantastical world was really exciting to me, and it's what i spent my time doing down to the last days /played. One of my favorite places was Solusek A. It seemed so deep, and I always hoped they'd add more on to it (there was a portion that seemed incomplete). Most of my memories from the games are "firsts," as in the first time I travelled from Qeynos to Freeport, or the first time I met Kbarr (I think it was him anyway, he was with some guy named Kagal in North Ro and I accused them both of being twinks in their shiny bronze armor). Sometimes I'd like to go back and do it all again, see the changes they made to the old world and such. Mistmoore was probably my second favorite zone. I used to sit in that tower for hours. I hear they've made some changes to it. |
LOL, Kagal:) My bud Jeff from Pittsburg. I still talk to him in email. I used to buy low sell high on bronze, back when it was the standard! All his armor were freebies from me. I was RICH for lv 15 in full steel!
Man, what a waste of time.... |
did you not have fun and have great memories? after all isnt that what the point of life is? to each his own:/
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dablobb
Sir Postalot
Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Posts: 1263
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Posted: 05/18/05 - 00:55 Post subject:
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if i would of never played eq i would never have meet the great friends i have now......but i think my time is up with EQ. but i am very glad i got soemthing out of it.
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 05/18/05 - 01:30 Post subject:
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| atarom wrote: | if woving to a warm state and being a bum would make you happy, then yes. you should do it.
Everyone in the world should pursue happiness that doesnt infringe upon the happiness of others. So if killing people makes you happy, that's not exactly fair.
But when it comes to playing games or going hiking or enjoying a bottle of colt 45, to each their own.
The real question is this: Does playing these video games really make you happy? |
At what point did the discussion turn into a debate about what "makes you happy"?
Being jobless, depending on the state for a living, producing nothing, being nothing, simply existing on the level of an animal is acceptable, as long as it makes you "happy"?
Hmmm, interesting, this is what they are teaching you in extended high school theses days?
he bar is set at "the happy"? Thats all that matters in life? The happy is the end all?
LOL
Its not always about what "makes you happy" son. I'm talking about wasting time.
If you cannot agree that sitting in front of a glass tube for 240 days was a TOTAL waste of f*****g time, then you are what I think you are.
A stupid kid.
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Aviger
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1509
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Posted: 05/18/05 - 01:38 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | If you cannot agree that sitting in front of a glass tube for 240 days was a TOTAL waste of f*****g time, then you are what I think you are. |
Depends, was it 240 days in a row, then yes
WAs it 240 days in a 2 year period, maybe yes..
Was it 240 days over 6 years time (1/9th of 6 years roughly). not really, you still have 8/9ths of that time to do other things..
For reference, 240 days = 2.6 horus a day over 6 years.
2.6 hours a day spend on a hobby is not much.
Take into account weekends where you might spend 2 days of twice as much time behind "the tube" that comes down to maybe 1 hour a day.
Not much isn't it then
Perspective...try it sometime kbarr 
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 05/18/05 - 01:48 Post subject:
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| Aviger wrote: | | Quote: | | If you cannot agree that sitting in front of a glass tube for 240 days was a TOTAL waste of f*****g time, then you are what I think you are. |
Depends, was it 240 days in a row, then yes
WAs it 240 days in a 2 year period, maybe yes..
Was it 240 days over 6 years time (1/9th of 6 years roughly). not really, you still have 8/9ths of that time to do other things..
For reference, 240 days = 2.6 horus a day over 6 years.
2.6 hours a day spend on a hobby is not much.
Take into account weekends where you might spend 2 days of twice as much time behind "the tube" that comes down to maybe 1 hour a day.
Not much isn't it then
Perspective...try it sometime kbarr |
I have my perspective, don't need yours. No matter how you cut a shit sandwich, its still...
The 240 were my days played and I quit well over 2 years ago.
EQ was evercrack and I don't know any ADULTS who quit the game and look back on it as time well spent. Not saying you didn't make glorified AOL chat room pals, or a few bucks selling accounts. I'm saying for the VAST majority of people who end up playing hrs upon hrs it was and IS a monumental waste of time.
Lets face it nerdlings, it was a chat room with colors.
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16398
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 05/18/05 - 02:08 Post subject:
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Ok i'm not saying it wasn't a waste of time.
But saying that going out and playing a round of golf, or taking your sports car for a drive is any less of a waste of time is just silliness.
Tell me what it is that makes something worthwhile.
And if you can manage, I will also try to actually have an argument that doesn't include name calling.
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