What loot system does your guild use? :: Ultimate MMORPG Gaming Community & Trading Zone

Occulis
RealPoor Jedi

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central

Posted: 12/15/02 - 08:20 Post subject: What loot system does your guild use?

Whatchoo usin? And why? How does it work out for you? What are the pros and cons? How would you change it for the better (not just to get yourself more shit)?

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lauren000
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs

Posted: 12/15/02 - 23:36 Post subject:

I allways liked the merit system and people could nominate others through /t. dkp in theory is a good system untill you have wizards using dkp to get boc's and what not(yes this did happen and there were others there who needed).

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Domination
Can't Stop Posting

Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 565
Location: Atlanta, GA

Posted: 12/15/02 - 23:59 Post subject:

Its hard to handle this in a fair manner - The best way I can see is a mix of the systems (DKP, Merit , Random). Reward those who are at your raids alot, Merit those deserving of item to random if need be.

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principessa
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149

Posted: 12/16/02 - 14:14 Post subject:

SA moved to a DKP system at the end of the summer...for the most part, this is working out really well for us. You can see how our system works at our site http://www.heymoe.com , SARPS tab Yea, the people that don't play a lot don't benefit as much...but when you think about your odds of winning something on a random, I don't see that it makes a huge difference in the end. Our officers took the time to look at other people's systems as well as consider input from members when they designed this. Is it flawless? No. We've found a bug in it here and there. For the most part, it works well. There is a strict proviso against exploiting our loot policy. It's grounds for the boot...that plus the fact that we have an honorable bunch of people help keep things fair, IMO. Principessa Sanctus Arcanum Wicked Wizzie of the East ...lowering the BOOM! on beasties all across Norrath and beyond Port-h0 of Tarew Marr "cover my butt--my hps are made of glass!" /e flexes her magic eggbeater.

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Zwadrich
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 5015
Location: The Netherlands

Posted: 12/16/02 - 16:05 Post subject:

Britlore uses Merit, which sucks as i never get any because i post on RP and call Eduin an a*****e...

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Erom
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 71

Posted: 12/16/02 - 16:23 Post subject:

Point system is only way to go. BTW if your class cannot use the item you cannot bid unless no one there that can use wants.. then its open to be bid on by everyone. This system owns and we 99% of the time never have any problems. No system of loot management is fool proof but this is by far the best way of doing it. Merit = Bias and who is liked more b******t. Places to much power with a small group or single person. Power corrupts this is nothing new. Random = People who play rarely log on and make a raid and get shit then are never scene again for months.. thats ghey NBG = Need Before Greed... umm I just kinda think this is silly. If its all friends there this works. NBG works with a tight circle of friends. Otherwise me for instance would have almost no reason to go to any raid. My gear is nice enough that this system has absolutely no incentive for me. Anyway these are my views on this. Numinous uses Raid point system and I never been happier.

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Docter
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420

Posted: 12/16/02 - 16:25 Post subject:

Aye Erom! Numinous has the best system IMHO!

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Goraz
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3736
Location: Philadelphia

Posted: 12/16/02 - 16:27 Post subject:

merit works good when u dont have loot whores like mack.

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Erom
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 71

Posted: 12/16/02 - 16:31 Post subject:

BTW Doc get yourt fek comp upto par we need to get you flagged and shit man.. you laggin Dirf!

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Docter
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420

Posted: 12/16/02 - 16:39 Post subject:

I miss you guys!!!

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Zapper
RealPoor Sensei

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1512
Location: Connecticut

Posted: 12/16/02 - 20:03 Post subject:

We once had a system where whoever clicked the fastest after the thing died got to loot it. Yabba/Vengeant was very good at this. b*****d would be looting before the thing hit the ground. Urkel/Windez was good at it too =p UNfortunately others in the guild didn't realize we were just competing to see who the fastest clicker was & they thought we were loot whoring.

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Ashwynd
Guest

Posted: 12/16/02 - 20:27 Post subject:

I think ours is seniority/dkp without the actual points and knowing how you compare to others on completely accumulated raid totals? I dunno though. but I like it so far >_< I've seen Afterlife's DKP and what it does is you don't get anything for a year (yes I'm exaggerating) then you spend it all on 3 loots in a row (like aten loot), then no loot for another year etc, plus twink loot rots since noone wants to spend dkp. Twinks make the game more enjoyable! I like the idea of the more you raid the more you are rewarded though, that seems the most fair.

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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central

Posted: 12/16/02 - 23:58 Post subject:

Thanks for the feedback! I have been considering writing my own db and site for blacklist but if there is something already out there (such as the http://216.63.34.73:8080/listEncounters.jsp which SA is using) then why spend my time reinventing the wheel?

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FealornTM
Luke Warm

Joined: 15 Nov 2002
Posts: 375

Posted: 12/17/02 - 00:34 Post subject:

Heya Dunn, There's a system I had a major part in developing, it's all on Excel. I'd offer to email it, but it's huge. Took me a flight across the Atlantic and back to write the basic format, timewise. Breif summary is this: Get points for raiding...(raid points)...appx 1 point per 2 hours. Normally take at the start of the raid.....then every 90 mins to 2 hours, and one at time of kill. Assign a few extra points for the pain in the arse raids that nobody likes ...Aarynor and flurry drakes come to mind. All loot is assigned a point value. Based on a few factors... Time involved in killing mob, frequency of mob, competition for kill, value of item...When in doubt...take Afterlife's point value and multply times whatever to fit your system. (Examples.... Vindi BP 25 pts, Gold Leaf Earring-Tunare 90 pts) Your total loot points divided by your total raid points = "loot factor". People send in tells for loot when it drops.....lowest loot factor is awarded item. Generally speaking. There's a few other things that were added later....min. raid percentage for good stuff. A "Joining fee" added to loot points so new members have to work a little to lower factor. You can add multipliers for time zones to help out the people who can't raid at peak time...etc..etc.. There's definately some problems with it....but some good things. If you'd like to discuss it in depth, I'll be happy to do so in PM's. Probably the biggest thing to keep in mind with this system, is because it uses a division method, the new players will move up and down quickly, whereas the people who have been in the guild a long time will move very little. Only way to move "a veteran" significantly is to award them alot for a month, or have them hold onto their old gear for 4-8 weeks without a new item, depending on the direction you want to go. Awarding loot is the worst part about any guild officers job...and sometimes the best. It's great to see someone get excited, but it's tenfold worse to hear the dissapointment. For that reason I was always a fan of following a system nearly 100%. Input names...output decision, no emotional investment, or theorhetically arguements amongst officers. Relying on statistics and formula's is an occupational hazard for most engineer's I'm afraid. Whatever you do....g'luck. Keeping track of raid points...DKP... is a major pain in the arse. Yipee...log on to play a game and take attendance every 2 hours. Address the issue of botted toons. Sometimes ya need em for a raid to succeed, where do ya draw the line? What's is each item worth? What is the item worth if it's going to rot? Who decides if an item should be limited to certain classes? What about the guildmates who contribute in ways which don't result in points? How close will you follow your system? Who has authority to override? Do you override when you don't like the result or follow it 100% and modify it when needed? Drop me a line if ya'd like to know about it.

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Akronn
Guest

Posted: 12/17/02 - 01:02 Post subject:

Quote:

Address the issue of botted toons. Sometimes ya need em for a raid to succeed, where do ya draw the line?

Ack this is where I've seen NBG just fall completely apart. Who's more important, a main that rarely plays or an essential bot? If the bot (usually a cleric) is that pivotal, it should have equal weight...

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Minion
Guest

Posted: 12/17/02 - 01:20 Post subject:

I thought you were boycotting Realpoor because they made me an admin, Elavis?

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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central

Posted: 12/17/02 - 01:44 Post subject:

Minion wrote:

I thought you were boycotting Realpoor because they made me an admin, Elavis?

Minion,

Thank you for your contribution to the topic of this thread. In answer to your query, I was recently informed you are no longer an admin, and thus cannot ban/delete posts on a whim. I see this has unfortunately not stopped you from trolling them.

Sincerely,

Elavis H. Bard.

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principessa
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149

Posted: 12/17/02 - 04:24 Post subject:

In SA, bots receive .75 of each point on a raid that a main toon does and only one bot is allowed to receive points on a raid, per person. For those that play a lot, their bots are doing almost as well as their mains

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Minion
Guest

Posted: 12/17/02 - 06:35 Post subject:

Dunn wrote:

Minion wrote:

I thought you were boycotting Realpoor because they made me an admin, Elavis?

Minion,

Thank you for your contribution to the topic of this thread. In answer to your query, I was recently informed you are no longer an admin, and thus cannot ban/delete posts on a whim. I see this has unfortunately not stopped you from trolling them.

Sincerely,

Elavis H. Bard.

I am indeed still an admin, and can thus ban users and delete posts on a whim. I'm not entirely sure what you heard but you're misinformed. My admin status was removed twice by outraged anonymous individuals however they have been restored.

Shall I give you your farewell party now or are you going to stay?

I'd like to know because between banning users, deleting posts, and moving threads to inconvinient locations, I don't have much time to tend to the lesser needs of the community. Last week I was going to delete the work safe theme so that unsuspecting individuals will not be able to browse realpoor from work but I was so busy deleting all of Hillys posts and editing topics that I had forgotten about it.

Apparently I did something wrong though if you got the impression that I am no longer an admin.

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Gnosh
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 80

Posted: 12/17/02 - 07:47 Post subject:

You aren't going to find a simple answer to this question really. Your guild loot system has to match the personalities of your guild. First thing you probably want to do before you decide is figure out what the goals of having a loot policy is and go from there. Figure out the goals make sure you policy can meet them. Also make sure your policy answers at least these questions: Inflation (in a non-bidding system)? Bots/Twinks/Alts/Recruilts? Rotting Loot? Severity (ie how much do you favor the more played vs less played)? Competition (ie is an adversaral loot system going to cause problems - bidding etc) Casual Players? (what percentage of your guild is, how will this affect them at both introduction and long term?) Bidding? (this is the easiest system to implement - can you make it fit your needs?) No loot system is ever going to be perfect but just having the DKP records goes a long way to clear up loot arguments. The hardest part is trying to figure out how people will react to the system in itself though. As for the KB system and how well it works, I like it for the guild but I'm probably biased since I helped create it. It isn't the system that most favors myself or my desires for a loot system (I have a strong belief in a strength of preference concept that is shown more in a bidding style system) but I think it does what the guild needs.

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typodemon
Fresh Meat

Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 2

Posted: 12/18/02 - 01:22 Post subject:

DV uses a merit system and a loot commity who votes on who should get it ... IF anybody on the commity want a item of great value, or something that a lot of people want, they remove themselves from the loot channel for the duration of the vote. Members can only nominate Guilded Mains for loot, and only loot that is going to rot can get sent to random and then if nobody wants it after that people with alts who can get to that zone could probably loot it. The system works well, people who don't go to raids never get gear, but the people who are always there get the loot. That way the it benifits the guild because the people there have awesome gear, and it is a insentive to go to as many raids as possible.

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lauren000
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs

Posted: 12/19/02 - 20:55 Post subject:

when tmo on fennin was the first guild in vt hyarth their mt got 7 vt loots in a week. That's sick :\ but you know a loser like that is never gonna quit and he's on 24/7 /shrug. It's better to have a few really good tanks than to spread it around assuming they ALLWAYS and will ALLWAYS be on. And that's kinda how it works, no one ever leaves, because someone doesn't get equipped like that if their playing intensity dies after they get hooked up, and after everyone has something new recruits get alot of loot just off rott factor bringing in many more recruits. Depends on your player base really, but many different loot systems can be ideal in certain conditions.

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What loot system does your guild use?

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