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Banzai
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 Posted: 06/23/04 - 17:51 Post subject:
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The guy is a total tool. If anyone trys the b******t he pulls on other people he gets his panties in a wad.
I figure if you can't take it, don't dish it out.
I would love to see someone crash his house, gain entry under the guise of a legitimate report and start asking him questions about how fat he is.
Turn about is fair play.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 06/23/04 - 17:55 Post subject:
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| Banzai wrote: | The guy is a total tool. If anyone trys the b******t he pulls on other people he gets his panties in a wad.
I figure if you can't take it, don't dish it out.
I would love to see someone crash his house, gain entry under the guise of a legitimate report and start asking him questions about how fat he is.
Turn about is fair play. |
You're an "actor". Go for it!
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Banzai
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Posted: 06/23/04 - 18:03 Post subject:
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I try not to get political in my work, it's just really not that entertaining at the end of the day and far too topical.
This film won't be played anytime after the next 3 years. None of his films have a shelf life that long.
Sure they are good hot topics and get people worked up but it's a long form of Jerry Springer.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 06/23/04 - 18:03 Post subject:
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Wow...lots to respond to since my post...
| Oobs wrote: | | Moore is being condemned for doing exactly what he says Bush did. i.e. making facts up lol... |
I don't really know why I quoted this. Maybe it's my weakness for pointing out stupidity when I see it. Why don't you just say what you mean, Oobs? 'I can't debate what you said so I'm just going to make pointless attacks on Bush. Yay me!'
| Banzai wrote: | | I'm not sure how people can claim that the film is filled with lies, it's not even out yet. |
Granted. I know nothing about his upcoming film, other than the fact that it's anti-Bush. My complaint with Moore is more fundamental. I was pointing out a pattern in his behavior that I dislike. I know that line wasn't directed entirely at me but I wanted to clarify my earlier post.
| Nobunaga wrote: | | Your interpretation of what a documentary is different from what Hollywood and the Academy deems a "film documentary" is. The Academy probably has the loosest definition for film documentary meaning that the motion picture merely has to be non-fictional in nature. Facts nor truth is a prequisite. |
I admit, you have me at a loss here. Non-fictional means it mirrors reality. At the very least, it makes a valid attempt at displaying reality. Moore doesn't do that. His trademark is taking facts and presenting them in such a way that they lead the viewer to an erroneous conclusion. Twisting facts until they no longer resemble reality is lying to everyone except a politician (and Hollywood apparently). The fact that Hollywood has deemed that documentaries no longer have to worry about being documentaries is just more evidence than they live on some other world than the rest of us. The term 'Planet Hollywood' is becoming more and more appropriate.
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Yabden
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 2485
Location: Ohio
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Posted: 06/23/04 - 20:55 Post subject:
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el oh el!
in other news:
Michael Moore eats babies
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 06/23/04 - 22:27 Post subject:
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I believe Michael Moore to be the kind of Hero america needs. It's people like he who fight for our rights everyday against the tyranny that is our corrupt administration. Further, I think it's about time we start naming parks, schools and streets after him, don't you?
Someday, his revered visage will grace the twenty dollar bill. God bless you, Michael Moore, and your good fight.
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Tura
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 4865
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: 06/23/04 - 22:29 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Michael Moore is a national embarassment. |
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Haphasto
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 10 Nov 2002
Posts: 1800
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Posted: 06/23/04 - 22:33 Post subject:
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still, what he has to say interests me, I will probably see it on Friday.
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 06/24/04 - 08:42 Post subject: -==-
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What I see happening, is a horrible trend about to start, just like reality TV. Here soon there will be all kinds of copycats making "documentaries" for the big screen.
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kemble
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 1909
Location: MI
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Posted: 06/24/04 - 09:06 Post subject:
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| Silvermouse wrote: | I believe Michael Moore to be the kind of Hero america needs. It's people like he who fight for our rights everyday against the tyranny that is our corrupt administration. Further, I think it's about time we start naming parks, schools and streets after him, don't you?
Someday, his revered visage will grace the twenty dollar bill. God bless you, Michael Moore, and your good fight. |
Please kill yourself and have a friend post the pics.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 06/24/04 - 09:15 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: |
Non-fictional means it mirrors reality. At the very least, it makes a valid attempt at displaying reality. Moore doesn't do that. His trademark is taking facts and presenting them in such a way that they lead the viewer to an erroneous conclusion. Twisting facts until they no longer resemble reality is lying to everyone except a politician (and Hollywood apparently). The fact that Hollywood has deemed that documentaries no longer have to worry about being documentaries is just more evidence than they live on some other world than the rest of us. The term 'Planet Hollywood' is becoming more and more appropriate. |
You have to realise it's erroneous in your opinion. Not necessarily to Moore, the people who watch the movie and the people who judge the movie. So to some people it may be a complete farce, to others it's the absolute truth. Both are probably wrong.
The same way Moore doesn't have or know the ultimate truth/reality, if there even is such a thing, you don't either. What to one person is reality, isn't to you, because everyone interprets things differently. Neither of you is the standard everyone else should judge by. A documentary that features Moore's interpretation/presentation of facts, is just that... an interpretation/presentation of his view. As such, his presentation may be flawed, propagandistic, and scientifically/factually incomplete and/or inaccurate, but hardly erroneous. An opinion as such is never "wrong". Even if you can find plenty to argue against it. You don't have to agree with it.
The way I see it there are two groups (on this board and I imagine in American society): pro Bush and against Bush
The ones against Bush (and a lot of Europeans belong to that group - not me, btw.) go completely over the top in attacking him, and resort to personal attacks on Bush, instead of discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of his policies. The ones that are pro Bush are hysterically 'on the fence' and more interested in defending everything Bush does than honestly evaluating the pro's AND CONS of his presidency for America. Any criticism, warranted or not, is called out as conspiratorial (apparently liberals are out to get everyone else?), or worse, unpatriotic.
Both positions are polarised charicatures of the two sides of the debate and I don't feel like anyone is interested in a moderate stance anymore these days. Even a documentary like Moore's, though ridiculous and extremist as some may judge it, may be a basis for a debate that will put the finger on the sore spots in a fair (or at least more fair) way. But I doubt that people are even interested in that. Which is what disappoints me about all this.
Last edited by Celestra on 06/24/04 - 09:22; edited 1 time in total
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Kilzalot
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 2080
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Posted: 06/24/04 - 09:20 Post subject:
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| Goraz wrote: | f**k michael moore.
c**t rag. |
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 06/24/04 - 11:39 Post subject:
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| Silvermouse wrote: | | atarom wrote: | | blah ablah blah afgragb blagbabahla;blag GaRaggabalrjabla |
Exactly. Who f*****g cares. It's a movie. If you don't like the guy, send him some hate mail instead of telling all of us how much he sucks or should be beaten. Everytime his name comes up here it's the same thing! |
If you banned bombastic b******g on this board, brainless brevity would be all we are left with, because there is no wit.
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Banzai
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Nobunaga
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 932
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Posted: 06/24/04 - 11:59 Post subject:
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| Celestra wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: |
Non-fictional means it mirrors reality. At the very least, it makes a valid attempt at displaying reality. Moore doesn't do that. His trademark is taking facts and presenting them in such a way that they lead the viewer to an erroneous conclusion. Twisting facts until they no longer resemble reality is lying to everyone except a politician (and Hollywood apparently). The fact that Hollywood has deemed that documentaries no longer have to worry about being documentaries is just more evidence than they live on some other world than the rest of us. The term 'Planet Hollywood' is becoming more and more appropriate. |
You have to realise it's erroneous in your opinion. Not necessarily to Moore, the people who watch the movie and the people who judge the movie. So to some people it may be a complete farce, to others it's the absolute truth. Both are probably wrong.
The same way Moore doesn't have or know the ultimate truth/reality, if there even is such a thing, you don't either. What to one person is reality, isn't to you, because everyone interprets things differently. Neither of you is the standard everyone else should judge by. A documentary that features Moore's interpretation/presentation of facts, is just that... an interpretation/presentation of his view. As such, his presentation may be flawed, propagandistic, and scientifically/factually incomplete and/or inaccurate, but hardly erroneous. An opinion as such is never "wrong". Even if you can find plenty to argue against it. You don't have to agree with it.
The way I see it there are two groups (on this board and I imagine in American society): pro Bush and against Bush
The ones against Bush (and a lot of Europeans belong to that group - not me, btw.) go completely over the top in attacking him, and resort to personal attacks on Bush, instead of discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of his policies. The ones that are pro Bush are hysterically 'on the fence' and more interested in defending everything Bush does than honestly evaluating the pro's AND CONS of his presidency for America. Any criticism, warranted or not, is called out as conspiratorial (apparently liberals are out to get everyone else?), or worse, unpatriotic.
Both positions are polarised charicatures of the two sides of the debate and I don't feel like anyone is interested in a moderate stance anymore these days. Even a documentary like Moore's, though ridiculous and extremist as some may judge it, may be a basis for a debate that will put the finger on the sore spots in a fair (or at least more fair) way. But I doubt that people are even interested in that. Which is what disappoints me about all this. |
Cel and I need to fux.
^^
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 06/24/04 - 12:44 Post subject:
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| kemble wrote: | | Silvermouse wrote: | I believe Michael Moore to be the kind of Hero america needs. It's people like he who fight for our rights everyday against the tyranny that is our corrupt administration. Further, I think it's about time we start naming parks, schools and streets after him, don't you?
Someday, his revered visage will grace the twenty dollar bill. God bless you, Michael Moore, and your good fight. |
Please kill yourself and have a friend post the pics. |
I was joking =/
Seriously, though, all joking aside...Michael Moore state park.
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Clevinger
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Posted: 06/24/04 - 12:46 Post subject:
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Michael Moore, the hero of fast food chains everywhere!
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 06/24/04 - 17:26 Post subject:
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| Nobunaga wrote: | | Celestra wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: |
Non-fictional means it mirrors reality. At the very least, it makes a valid attempt at displaying reality. Moore doesn't do that. His trademark is taking facts and presenting them in such a way that they lead the viewer to an erroneous conclusion. Twisting facts until they no longer resemble reality is lying to everyone except a politician (and Hollywood apparently). The fact that Hollywood has deemed that documentaries no longer have to worry about being documentaries is just more evidence than they live on some other world than the rest of us. The term 'Planet Hollywood' is becoming more and more appropriate. |
You have to realise it's erroneous in your opinion. Not necessarily to Moore, the people who watch the movie and the people who judge the movie. So to some people it may be a complete farce, to others it's the absolute truth. Both are probably wrong.
The same way Moore doesn't have or know the ultimate truth/reality, if there even is such a thing, you don't either. What to one person is reality, isn't to you, because everyone interprets things differently. Neither of you is the standard everyone else should judge by. A documentary that features Moore's interpretation/presentation of facts, is just that... an interpretation/presentation of his view. As such, his presentation may be flawed, propagandistic, and scientifically/factually incomplete and/or inaccurate, but hardly erroneous. An opinion as such is never "wrong". Even if you can find plenty to argue against it. You don't have to agree with it.
The way I see it there are two groups (on this board and I imagine in American society): pro Bush and against Bush
The ones against Bush (and a lot of Europeans belong to that group - not me, btw.) go completely over the top in attacking him, and resort to personal attacks on Bush, instead of discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of his policies. The ones that are pro Bush are hysterically 'on the fence' and more interested in defending everything Bush does than honestly evaluating the pro's AND CONS of his presidency for America. Any criticism, warranted or not, is called out as conspiratorial (apparently liberals are out to get everyone else?), or worse, unpatriotic.
Both positions are polarised charicatures of the two sides of the debate and I don't feel like anyone is interested in a moderate stance anymore these days. Even a documentary like Moore's, though ridiculous and extremist as some may judge it, may be a basis for a debate that will put the finger on the sore spots in a fair (or at least more fair) way. But I doubt that people are even interested in that. Which is what disappoints me about all this. |
Cel and I need to fux.
^^ |
Neither my nor Moore's opinion of Bush really has anything to do with my opinion of Moore's films. There are numerous pages and articles about Moore's use of misdirection in both Roger and Me and Bowling for Columbine. There is a large difference between posting only facts that support your opinion or discredit a dissenting opinion and deliberately contriving circumstances and editting interviews to mislead the viewer. That is the erroneous conclusion I was referring to.
I'm not talking Truth (note the capital 'T'). I'm talking about flat out lying in a film to make your point. When I state my beliefs, I try to support them with facts and logic. Hopefully, this would garner me some measure of respect for my opinion. If I lie and make up 'evidence' to support my views, I'm nothing more than a liar. Moore's use of misdirection is so extensive that it crosses the line and is clearly nothing more than an elaborate lie. I don't care what your beliefs are, if you have to lie to support them, your beliefs have no value.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 06/24/04 - 17:32 Post subject:
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[quote="Nuldaan]
I'm not talking Truth (note the capital 'T'). I'm talking about flat out lying in a film to make your point. When I state my beliefs, I try to support them with facts and logic. Hopefully, this would garner me some measure of respect for my opinion. If I lie and make up 'evidence' to support my views, I'm nothing more than a liar. Moore's use of misdirection is so extensive that it crosses the line and is clearly nothing more than an elaborate lie. I don't care what your beliefs are, if you have to lie to support them, your beliefs have no value.[/quote]
/nod
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 06/24/04 - 22:28 Post subject:
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| Luturb wrote: | | Silvermouse wrote: | | atarom wrote: | | blah ablah blah afgragb blagbabahla;blag GaRaggabalrjabla |
Exactly. Who f*****g cares. It's a movie. If you don't like the guy, send him some hate mail instead of telling all of us how much he sucks or should be beaten. Everytime his name comes up here it's the same thing! |
If you banned bombastic b******g on this board, brainless brevity would be all we are left with, because there is no wit. |
I would supply the wit for all of you rustics.
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pyrgomache
Sir Postalot
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 1075
Location: Here
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Posted: 06/24/04 - 22:31 Post subject:
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OMG LOL my dad was like "teh fek i wan 2 see farenhite four fifty one" an im liek "OMGROFL michel more is ghey wtf r u wastig ur time on wtflol"
jeje
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Oobs
Rookie
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 57
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Posted: 06/25/04 - 02:23 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | Wow...lots to respond to since my post...
| Oobs wrote: | | Moore is being condemned for doing exactly what he says Bush did. i.e. making facts up lol... |
I don't really know why I quoted this. Maybe it's my weakness for pointing out stupidity when I see it. Why don't you just say what you mean, Oobs? 'I can't debate what you said so I'm just going to make pointless attacks on Bush. Yay me!'
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What you pointed out is actually called irony; any "stupidity" you may have witnessed is clearly client side. 
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 06/25/04 - 08:22 Post subject:
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| Oobs wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: | Wow...lots to respond to since my post...
| Oobs wrote: | | Moore is being condemned for doing exactly what he says Bush did. i.e. making facts up lol... |
I don't really know why I quoted this. Maybe it's my weakness for pointing out stupidity when I see it. Why don't you just say what you mean, Oobs? 'I can't debate what you said so I'm just going to make pointless attacks on Bush. Yay me!'
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What you pointed out is actually called irony; any "stupidity" you may have witnessed is clearly client side. |
You know...I just reread that. What was I thinking? I think I misread it the first time. Oh well...it's too late to edit it now.
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