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Jinu
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2396
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 Posted: 07/22/03 - 15:33 Post subject: Uday and Qusay confirmed dead!
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NYT
The two notorious sons of Saddam Hussein, Uday and Qusay, were killed today in an extended firefight with American forces in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, the United State military said today.
Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, commander of allied forces in Iraq, announced the deaths hours after a nearly three-hour attack by American soldiers destroyed a house that the two sons were seen running into.
The two men were seen exiting a car and racing into a house in the eastern part of the city around 9 a.m. and were filmed, the Kurdish officials said. The film was quickly handed over to the American military, who identified the men and surrounded the house with troops from the 101st Airborne.
The people inside responded by opening fire on the troops. United States forces retaliated, and the boom of high-powered weaponry shattered the calm of the area for three hours, said the Kurdish officials, including one eyewitness. Four bodies were found in the house, completely shattered by the assault, which included attacks by at least one helicopter gunship. Two men were arrested, the sources said.
The American military said it was working on confirming the other two bodies.
The deaths represent the elimination of the two most sought after members of the regime after Saddam Hussein himself. Qusay and Uday followed their father at No. 2 and No. 3 on the American military's most-wanted list of 55 members of Mr. Hussein's regime.
Before today, American forces had announced the capture of 34 Iraqis on the most-wanted list. Mr. Hussein still remains at large and American officials say he may be hiding out in Iraq.
There was a $15 million reward posted on the head of each son, both of whom were key lieutenants for the deposed president. Qusay, 37, the younger, calmer brother, was in charge of his father's security detail, the Special Republican Guards. Uday, 39, an infamous playboy feared for his sadistic bent, organized the Fedayeen Saddam out of pardoned criminals who would be given a new lease on life if they would kill for the regime.
The death of the two sons, analysts believe, would be the biggest development in ending Baath Party rule since Baghdad fell on April 9. Some say they believe it might diminish but not eliminate attacks that have killed around 40 United States soldiers since President Bush declared the end of major combat on May 1.
Although some loyalists to Mr. Hussein ?either paid or prodded by his sons ?are suspected of killing Americans, the attacks are also likely being carried out by Iraqis opposed to the very idea of occupation, tribal members bent on revenge for dead relatives and fanatics who believe Islam is at war with the West.
Even before the identity of the bodies was confirmed, celebratory gunfire erupted across Baghdad tonight as Iraqis celebrated the news, the night sky illuminated with tracer fire.
"I don't think it is possible, but if it is true, they deserved whatever happened to them," said Omar Salam, 22, eating his dinner at a roadside cafe with gunfire erupting all around him.
Most Iraqis will breath a sigh of relief that Mr. Hussein's two most likely successors have been eliminated. It would leave Mr. Hussein as the main target of the continuing manhunt.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 15:43 Post subject:
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Apparantly one of the other bodies was Uday's son, I believe. Sucks to be born into that family.
I can just see him in the living room going, "f**k! I haven't done anything! Don't shoot me!" =/
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Kaladam
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1110
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 16:11 Post subject:
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Yay!
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compusmack
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 6354
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 16:31 Post subject:
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Actually some good news, but it would have been more fun to put them on trial.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 16:51 Post subject:
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now if only they could find some weapons so they can legitimize
these killings.......
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 16:52 Post subject:
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| compusmack wrote: | | Actually some good news, but it would have been more fun to put them on trial. |
I dunno, if they were actually taken alive, we would have to put them on trial for war crimes, and somewhere in the US a bunch of airheads would be marching around with signs saying "Save Qusay and Uday!" and that would just be emabarassing. Turning the house they are in into swiss cheese with a helicopter gunship is probably safer. I was suprised to hear that they didn't have a lot of guards around them though.
Have to give them credit for having some guts though. There were only 4 of them and they didn't surrender to 200 soldiers and a helicoptor. Of course they probably knew they were toast whether they surrendered or not.
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Tinladar
Sir Postalot
Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 1448
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 16:55 Post subject:
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heh i could just see them on trial...
prosecution: Did you or did you not rape 3 women?
Uday: That depends on your definition of rape
prosecution: Un-wanted **** interaction with a living being.
uday: That depends on your definition of ****
prosecution: damn.. we've got another bill clinton here...
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Kaladam
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1110
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 16:57 Post subject:
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| Brash wrote: | now if only they could find some weapons so they can legitimize
these killings....... |
I think these killings were ligitimized by how many *innocent* people Uday and Qusay have themselves killed.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 17:50 Post subject:
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| Kaladam wrote: | | Brash wrote: | now if only they could find some weapons so they can legitimize
these killings....... |
I think these killings were ligitimized by how many *innocent* people Uday and Qusay have themselves killed. |
well why did we wait to wage this war under the guise of needing to get rid of thier weapons . why not just go because of the killings ?
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 17:55 Post subject:
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| Brash wrote: | | Kaladam wrote: | | Brash wrote: | now if only they could find some weapons so they can legitimize
these killings....... |
I think these killings were ligitimized by how many *innocent* people Uday and Qusay have themselves killed. |
well why did we wait to wage this war under the guise of needing to get rid of thier weapons . why not just go because of the killings ? |
I p**s on their graves.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 17:56 Post subject:
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I feel so much safer now.
WheresNWS, why don't you join the armed forces and go over there and prove yourself? p**s on their graves eh? Must be easy to say from Atlanta.
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 17:58 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | I feel so much safer now.
WheresNWS, why don't you join the armed forces and go over there and prove yourself? p**s on their graves eh? Must be easy to say from Atlanta. |
It wasn't an attempt at being macho. Just glad they're gone.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 17:58 Post subject:
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Bush has fried a few in Texas, you know. I doubt he wanted to go to war because the Hussein's were killing people, regardless of their reasons. Somebody would just turn around and hand him an execution list and make him look even dumber.
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 18:08 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | | Bush has fried a few in Texas, you know. I doubt he wanted to go to war because the Hussein's were killing people, regardless of their reasons. Somebody would just turn around and hand him an execution list and make him look even dumber. |
So not commutating the sentence of somebody who has been found guilty of multiple murders and has been sentenced to death by of jury of their peers is morally equivalent to raping and killing a 14 year old girl?
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 18:11 Post subject:
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Time for some BBQ ribs!
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 18:14 Post subject:
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I wasn't passing judgement either way as far as execution goes, hell if anything I am for it, but my moral compass isn't the issue here.
Simply said, Bush would've been foolish to go after Hussein because 'he killed innocents' when his own backyard may not be so tidy either. He avoids the issue altogether by not mentioning it, and there's nothing wrong with that.
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 18:24 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | I wasn't passing judgement either way as far as execution goes, hell if anything I am for it, but my moral compass isn't the issue here.
Simply said, Bush would've been foolish to go after Hussein because 'he killed innocents' when his own backyard may not be so tidy either. He avoids the issue altogether by not mentioning it, and there's nothing wrong with that. |
I don't think that was every touted as a reason to oust Hussein. Of course, uncovering thousands of remains in Iraq is just an added bonus. I don't think that refusing to reverse the rulings of juries makes Bush's backyard untidy, either.
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 18:26 Post subject:
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What Akronn is trying to say is, "I don't like Bush, so I will insult him in any political thread, even if it doesn't make any sense."
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 18:27 Post subject:
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OMG! I have....
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 18:27 Post subject:
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1000 posts! What do I win?
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 18:35 Post subject:
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It wasn't ever touted as a reason to oust Hussein, that's what everyone has been saying.
And Luturb, I'm hardly insulting Bush here. You and I both know how controversial executions are. They're permanent (duh!) and there's always the looming spectre of 'new evidence' overhead. It's only wise to steer clear from the issue because there's always somebody out there just waiting to pounce on it.
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 18:36 Post subject:
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Akronn you are really turning into a f*****g moron with your hatred of Bush. How you can even begin to compare the deliberate rape and murder of hundreds if not tens of thousands of Iraqis both directly and indirectly by Uday and Qusai to George Bush "possibly" allowing an innocent person to die on death row after a decision of guilt by the Texas legal system is beyond me.
Your anti-Bush crusade has resulted in the intelligence I know you possess being completely absent from your political posts.
Finally Brash and other misguided Bush-haters. WMD, Uranium in Africa, Saddam's brutalities, were among MANY REASONS for going to war with Iraq. Primary among them were the 12 years of failed UN sanctions and Saddam's repeated violations.
We went to war, the world is a better place - accept that and stop trying to turn a successful and necessary war into a loss for Bush.
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 18:41 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | Akronn you are really turning into a f*****g moron with your hatred of Bush. How you can even begin to compare the deliberate rape and murder of hundreds if not tens of thousands of Iraqis both directly and indirectly by Uday and Qusai to George Bush "possibly" allowing an innocent person to die on death row after a decision of guilt by the Texas legal system is beyond me.
Your anti-Bush crusade has resulted in the intelligence I know you possess being completely absent from your political posts. |
^^
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 18:46 Post subject:
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| Brash wrote: | | Kaladam wrote: | | Brash wrote: | now if only they could find some weapons so they can legitimize
these killings....... |
I think these killings were ligitimized by how many *innocent* people Uday and Qusay have themselves killed. |
well why did we wait to wage this war under the guise of needing to get rid of thier weapons . why not just go because of the killings ? |
This is what I was directly referring to.
It's really quite simple. You don't go to war for reasons that you, yourself, may be guilty of. This isn't about rape or whatever else some of you drag into the discussion, it's about killing.
Here's something from ABC News, written during the election:
| Quote: | The presumptive Republican nominee vehemently defends the way his state metes out the death penalty, insisting that his critics have an anti-capital punishment agenda.
“I know there’s some in the country that don’t care for the death penalty,” he told reporters near the Bush family compound in Kennebunkport, Maine on Sunday. “But I believe … we’ve adequately answered innocence or guilt [in every case].”
“They’ve had full access to the courts and they’ve had full access to have a fair trial,” Bush said of the 132 convicted criminals executed in Texas since he took office in 1995
But a recent investigation found that 43 of those inmates were represented by defense attorneys who have been publicly sanctioned for misconduct. Forty others had lawyers who presented no evidence or only one witness during the critical sentencing phase of their trials. And dozens of others reportedly were convicted with the help of unreliable physical evidence or the testimony of non-credible witnesses. |
Now this is all done and over with, so why not leave it alone? Don't go around accusing people of killing innocents if you can't prove you haven't either.
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Arnaxus
Total Newbie
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 40
Location: Wichita, KS
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 18:47 Post subject:
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Damn, Vekril turned this thread from a stupid spouting match to an intelligent point and counter point political column. Curse you Vekril!
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Arnaxus
Total Newbie
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 40
Location: Wichita, KS
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 18:51 Post subject:
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Akronn = Saddam? Or perhaps the misinformed Iraqi propaganda ministrator? The argument he makes is simply nonexistent and must make sense only in his mind. But if it makes you feel better, "Flame on little bro, Flame on".
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 19:12 Post subject:
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| Luturb wrote: | | compusmack wrote: | | Actually some good news, but it would have been more fun to put them on trial. |
I dunno, if they were actually taken alive, we would have to put them on trial for war crimes, and somewhere in the US a bunch of airheads would be marching around with signs saying "Save Qusay and Uday!" and that would just be emabarassing. Turning the house they are in into swiss cheese with a helicopter gunship is probably safer. I was suprised to hear that they didn't have a lot of guards around them though.
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That's exactly what would have happened. That, plus desperate women sending them panties and marriage proposals in jail.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 19:18 Post subject:
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| Arnaxus wrote: | | Akronn = Saddam? Or perhaps the misinformed Iraqi propaganda ministrator? The argument he makes is simply nonexistent and must make sense only in his mind. But if it makes you feel better, "Flame on little bro, Flame on". |
Unfortunately it did exist for a short while during the election. However, Gore was for capital punishment too and the opposition was forced to abandon the argument. But don't think they liked it.
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Guest
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 19:52 Post subject:
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| Brash wrote: | now if only they could find some weapons so they can legitimize
these killings....... |
Idiot.
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Guest
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Posted: 07/22/03 - 19:56 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | I wasn't passing judgement either way as far as execution goes, hell if anything I am for it, but my moral compass isn't the issue here.
Simply said, Bush would've been foolish to go after Hussein because 'he killed innocents' when his own backyard may not be so tidy either. He avoids the issue altogether by not mentioning it, and there's nothing wrong with that. |
I love your double talk. If you surrounded yourself with dopes you could be the great leader.
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