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Janoth
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 3135
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 Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:22 Post subject:
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Thats extremly untrue Maelstorm. There are a ton of kids joining the military today whos parents are considered wealthy. There are also a ton of wealthy veterans. Obviously you aren't going to get rich while in the military but you will make a good amount of money, all things considered.
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:23 Post subject:
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I said rich people, celibrities, pro players, etc...not their kids.
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:24 Post subject:
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Oh and add a few more 10s of dead soldiers , just saw on the news.
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Janoth
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 3135
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:27 Post subject:
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Uh how are you going to become a celebrity while you are in the military? Usually people join the military BEFORE they are in their mid 20's.... Which is about the time most celebrities, rich people start making their bank. Most kids enter basic training at the age of 18 or 19.
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:33 Post subject:
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russians didnt hate their govt in ww2.. most of them actually liked stalin.. well not liked but revered him.. any country with the sense of nationalism that russia had at the time of ww2 is never going to easily accept foreign rule.
Germans still win the omfg pwned award for the opening weeks of the russian campaign though.. they killed or took captive 3 millionish russians.
Either way casualties will stay relatively low.. for some reason people in the US cant handle people dieing anymore when declaring a ban on driving while we were at war would end up meaning more americans were alive at the end than would have been if we hadnt gone to war yet kept driving.
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:36 Post subject:
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hmmm no, most of the best actors, producers are all up in the 28+ I would say,
same for pro players for most at least 24+
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:43 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: | hmmm no, most of the best actors, producers are all up in the 28+ I would say,
same for pro players for most at least 24+ |
actors and people in pro sports make up a very very small % of wealthy people. Unless your parents are also rich, people 18 - mid 20's also make up a very small % of wealthy people.
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Kbarr
Guest
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:46 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | | I sort of think shock and awe was a mistake. It was sort of like telling them: "This is the worst we can do. If you can survive the first two days, things will get better". |
The media took that term and ran with it. The problem is the tactics used by the US has changed, they never implemented the S and A thing. Once all the troopes are in a nice pretty circle around baghdad and the guard doesn't surrender then we will see S and W. The B52 will go in loaded for bear and will run non stop untill the rubble is turned to a fine powder. Then they will send in ground troops.
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Akimatsu
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 874
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:48 Post subject:
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Yea, if I was a great ball player at 18, had prospects looking at me and talking about making Millions when I leave college for pro ball, I SURE WOULD JOIN THE MILITARY INSTEAD!
And who knows, check out alot of the older actors who became popular at a later age and see how many were military. But if you grew up acting, then there is a good chance you wouldnt chance joining the military and f*****g up making huge cash. I know I wouldnt.
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:48 Post subject:
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Age 27 is the cutoff to join, I believe. Richer kids are more likely to become officers than enlist.
Actually, who was that baseball player from Phoenix that enlisted after 9/11? He turned down a multimillion dollar contract because he always wanted to be in the delta force or something.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:51 Post subject:
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WheresNWS, what you said earlier was that we had like a 100:1 kill ratio. What I pointed out to you was that in Vietnam we also had a huge kill ratio, the Vietnamese however ended chasing US out of there. We basially annihilated a generation of their people in the process, and we won the peace, but the war was a mess. Don't kid yourself into thinking that the same thing cannot ever happen again. We are an invading power, there are Iraqi soldiers and citizens who honestly think they are defending their country.
Eduin may not be correct about his assessment of Baghdad as the next Stalingrad, but nobody knows at this point because we haven't done a lot of city to city fighting. Don't b******t yourself with "They are vastly outnumbered / outgunned / out owned". In 1945, with the Eastern Front collapsing, a Russin intelligence report of the Wehrmacht in Jan/Feb reported "Morale: Low, Discipline: Extremely High". The Germans were defending tooth and nail on the East to the last man even while they were surrendering on the West, it depends on your enemy and the war. The Iraqi's may very well believe that we are an invading Satan and if they do feel that way, then it will turn into a Stalingrad if we let it. Bush has spent tons of time talking about "minimizing collateral damage", it's not like we are going to be able to level entire residential blocks due to resistance.
In short, if the Iraqi's do not surrender or capitulate or welcome us in Baghdad, then we will be in over our heads I'm afraid, when it comes to the international situation and the political situation. Militarily, there is always a clear objective, but political objectives change, and Bush is a politician, and he has also made it clear that he is in charge here.
As for a history book you might enjoy, I'd recommend "The Fall of Berlin". Great book =D.
It only takes 1 f*g with a 30 year old AK-47 to kill an American soldier. 19 Americans lost their lives in Mogadishu when we decided to ignore this fact in Somalia and a plan went awry. Again, if we underestimate an opponent on their home territory, it will only end up costing more American lives, the only thing that really matters right now. It doesn't matter how many Iraqi's die or whatever. I'm sure the American public won't have a massive outcry about that. What they will have a massive outcry over is a protracted campaign in Baghdad, we hope this doesn't happen, but who knows? Fundamentalist regimes are dangerous that way, and there has been a decidedly mixed reaction to the American presence in Iraq by the Iraqi's thus far.
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Bait Masterson
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3842
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 16:08 Post subject:
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19 americans may have died in mogudishu but they left a heap of corpse that would have made thier commanders proud, they estimated 1k somalians died.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 16:55 Post subject:
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No offense Bait, but the fact is that 19 Americans died, and for what? The whole reason we were there was to feed these b*****s and they start shit and we gotta kill a ton of them and some of our boys come back in body bags. I don't think thats the way we wanted it to turn out.
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Bait Masterson
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3842
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 17:04 Post subject:
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Thank president clinton for that sir, not me
If I ruled the world, somalia would be host to many walmarts and Freedom fries outlets right about now.
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 17:05 Post subject:
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Its Senior Bush's fault.
he should have dealt with Saddam when he had the chance back then.
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Kurel
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1877
Location: Cali
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 17:51 Post subject: Re: US casualties
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| Jinu wrote: | | hope this doesn't turn into another vietnam |
We were losing more then 500 soldiers a week during Vietnam. This definatly won't even be close to the number we'll lose going into Baghdad.
A few reasons this war will be different.
1) Chemical Weapons, we're prepared for them, the Iraqi's arent.
2) Iraq isn't a dense jungle like Vietnam was, therefore we can move our tanks in.
3) Iraq's army is very demoralized, and probably won't fight after we kill Saddam.
And Eduin, I suggest you learn some history. The only reason why Germany was defeated at Stalingrad is because of Hitler going slightly insane and shipping wine instead of bullets to his army that was sieging the city. Also the Germans lost alot of men during a fierce Russian winter. I don't possibly forsee Iraq getting 10 inches of snow anytime soon.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 17:52 Post subject:
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I'm not blaming anyone I'm just pointing out that when you have radical fundamentalist people they don't act and think the way we do. When we were fighting the Japanese in WW2 they fought to the last man, few prisoners were taken. If this situation turns into something like that then we are not going to be having a good time, because no matter how you do it, our people are going to be put at a much higher risk.
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Kurel
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1877
Location: Cali
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 17:53 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: | Its Senior Bush's fault.
he should have dealt with Saddam when he had the chance back then. |
We wanted too, but the rest of the world didn't (Read Canada and France).
The coalition wouldn't of stayed together to oust Saddam, so don't blame Bush Sr. for something the rest of the world f****d up on.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 17:58 Post subject:
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I really hate it when people assume that Iraq's military is nothing but a worthless rabble that will break "any time now". They may lack training and equipment but that does not mean they won't fight if what they think they are doing is right. Being vastly outnumbered means nothing, because the objective of their war is different than the objective of our war. If they do decide to rebel, break, then great, if not, then we are going to have a lot longer on our hands. It seems as though Rumsfeld has been planning for this eventuality all along but only now are they actually talking about it.
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Xthos
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 550
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 18:10 Post subject:
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People in the north and south don't like Saddam for the most part. They rebeled during the first gulf war, when they thought the coalition was going to come into Iraq and take Saddam out. Hundreds of thousands of them were killed by Saddam, that is why I believe they have been more hesitant to uprise in those areas. Supposedly they are starting to in Basra (their 2nd largest city).
If 1,000 or 3,000 die, that will be a pretty damn good number for a war against a country that at one point had the 5th largest military in the world I believe.
Also, I saw someone say the 1,000 people that may die would be more then any terrorist attack that Saddam may help with? Hmm, ever see the movie The Rock, the green crap in that movie is one of the things Saddam has, in fact hes got a improved version of VX thats harder to clean up after. A dirty nuke or VX attacks would kill WAY MORE then 1,000 people. Saddam has never been buddy, buddy with terrorists for the most part, but he is a ruthless a*****e that nothing should be put past him.
We would of cleaned his ass out the first time, but the coalition was put together to oust him from Kuwait, not to take him out. If we would of pushed it, we would of got the same shit from France, Germany, China, and Russia that we got before this one. It was hard to get a lot of these people to want to take ihm out of Kuwait, let alone anything else.
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Kbarr
Guest
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 18:14 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | | It seems as though Rumsfeld has been planning for this eventuality all along but only now are they actually talking about it. |
Yup he did:)
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