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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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 Posted: 04/30/04 - 11:15 Post subject: This is the kind of thing that makes me proud to be American
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It seems contradictory - this is really quite bad. But it comes as no surprise to anyone that US troops have tortured, beaten, even killed prisoners. Some soldiers throughout history have mistreated civilians and prisoners, and it would be naive to think that US soldiers are an exception.
The thing that I think is significant is that in the US, the truth about these things comes out. Despite attempts to surpress information like the Patriot Act, like accusations of "giving comfort to the enemy", we have a society where things like this do come out into the open to be deplored and criticized and corrected. I know there are a lot of countries in history that have fought wars, but I think we're rather unique in having a society where even while fighting a war, when the cautious wisdom would be to say "this will hurt our interests if it becomes public", it cannot be surpressed and hidden, and the public refuses to stand for it.
That's what a meant a few days ago when I listed our "good intentions" as one of our strengths. Good intentions aren't everything, but the genuine desire to do the right thing, even when it hurts you, is a rare and significant virtue. It's what we have to fight to protect.
| Quote: | Iraqi Prison Photos Mar U.S. Image
April 30 — By Paul Majendie
LONDON (Reuters) - Photos of U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners drew international condemnation on Friday, prompting the stark conclusion that the U.S. campaign to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis is a lost cause.
"This is the straw that broke the camel's back for America," said Abdel-Bari Atwan, editor of the Arab newspaper Al Quds Al Arabi. "The liberators are worse than the dictators."
"They have not just lost the hearts and minds of Iraqis but all the Third World and the Arab countries," he told Reuters.
The CBS News program "60 Minutes II" on Wednesday broadcast photos taken at the Abu Ghraib prison late last year showing American troops abusing some Iraqis held at what was once a notorious center of torture and executions under toppled President Saddam Hussein.
The pictures showed U.S. troops smiling, posing, laughing or giving the thumbs-up sign as naked, male Iraqi prisoners were stacked in a pyramid or positioned to simulate **** acts with one another.
Britain has been America's staunchest ally in Iraq but alarm has spread over strong-arm U.S tactics, support for Prime Minister Tony Blair has plummeted and the pictures were widely condemned on Thursday.
"When it comes to winning hearts and minds, the U.S. Army hasn't got a clue," wrote the Daily Mirror tabloid, one of several British papers to splash the photos on its front page.
"Nobody underestimates how wrong this is," Blair's spokesman told reporters. "Actions of this kind are in no way condoned by the coalition."
The publicity could not have been worse in the Arab world with the **** humiliation depicted in the pictures particularly shocking.
"That really, really is the worst atrocity," Atwan said. "It affects the honor and pride of Muslim people. It is better to kill them than **** abuse them."
MUSCLE-BOUND OX
Saudi Arabia's English-language Arab News daily said: "The greatest loss the Americans face is to their reputation, not simply in the Middle East but in the world at large.
"U.S. military power will be seen for what it is, a behemoth with the response speed of a muscle-bound ox and the limited understanding of a mouse."
In Geneva, the International Committee of The Red Cross voiced concern.
"We take this extremely seriously. Torture is forbidden in any circumstances of any person detained in the world. Humiliation and degrading treatment is a form of torture," chief spokeswoman Antonella Notari told Reuters.
The photographs were splashed across many leading newspapers in Italy, which is anxiously following the fate of three Italians being held hostage in Iraq.
"Torture in Iraq: American horrors revealed on TV," the left-wing L'Unita said in a headline while la Repubblica daily said the images were "irrefutable" proof of torture.
"It wasn't psychological pressure or simple mistreatment or illegitimate detention as in Guantanamo, but true, classic and irrefutable torture," the paper wrote in an editorial, citing forced, public sodomy as one of the gravest offences.
Calling for an independent inquiry, Amnesty International said: "There is a real crisis of leadership in Iraq with double standards and double speak on human rights.
"The prison was notorious under Saddam Hussein -- it should not be allowed to become so again," said the human rights pressure group.
"Our extensive research in Iraq suggested that this is not an isolated incident," it said. "Detainees have reported being routinely subjected to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment during arrest and detention."
(Additional reporting by Will Dunham in Washington, Stephanie Nebehay in Geneva, Ghaida Ghantous in Dubai, Shasta Darlington in Italy) |
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 11:18 Post subject:
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yep, if those soldiers are guilty they'll deserve a lot of prison time themselves.
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Gravelbeard
Luke Warm
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 203
Location: Port Saint Lucie Florida
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 11:34 Post subject:
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/nod
dumb f***s
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Tamrissa
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 29 Nov 2002
Posts: 7100
Location: at my computer
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 11:38 Post subject:
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 11:52 Post subject:
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lol a pyramid....even tought this is very wrong they sure don't lack of imagination.
Every army in the world has it bad apples..I still remember when they showed repports of canadian soldiers killing raping etc..in bosnia.
Guess war really change people for the worst. But it's still a mystery to me about why do they chose to do this...
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Frostkiss
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 2018
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 11:59 Post subject:
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Yeah, we had our own Bosnia-schandal too in Belgium.
In these days, with the media breathing down your neck, I simply think it's too hard to cover something up =/
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 12:58 Post subject:
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and what if.. by doing that crap, they anger more Iraqi's who in turn get angry enough to kill even more American troops.
I hope the military courts throw the book at em.
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Bait Masterson
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3842
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 13:16 Post subject:
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<img src="http://english.pravda.ru/img/2004/04/torture.jpg">
you gotta admit, its f*****g funny though
naked iraqi men pyramid with a US Soldier giving the thumbs up
that shit is classic.
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FireIsFun
Luke Warm
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 329
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 13:51 Post subject:
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TERRIBLE THINGS HAPPEN DURING WAR?
THIS IS AN OUTRAGE.
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Dril
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 501
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 14:13 Post subject:
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It's called reality.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 14:26 Post subject:
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| Dril wrote: | | It's called reality. |
It's more-so called stupidity and disgusting behavior.
Everything that happens is reality. We all know that already...
Are you trying to excuse their behavior, because it's "reality"? Sounds like you're leaning in that direction..(sounds like..)
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Gravelbeard
Luke Warm
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 203
Location: Port Saint Lucie Florida
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 14:26 Post subject:
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Its called a few dumb f***s make a whole country look like dumb f***s in the eys of the Middle East.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 14:29 Post subject:
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| FireIsFun wrote: | TERRIBLE THINGS HAPPEN DURING WAR?
THIS IS AN OUTRAGE. |
And you need to calm down Mr. "I knew this already, so I'll act sarcastic to satisfy my one testicle's urge to impregnate a male donkey."
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Dril
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 501
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 14:30 Post subject:
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I'm not excusing their actions, obviously it's stupid. But I don't know why people act all surprised like nothing of this nature ever goes on.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 14:37 Post subject:
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| Dril wrote: | | I'm not excusing their actions, obviously it's stupid. But I don't know why people act all surprised like nothing of this nature ever goes on. |
Who's surprised? I for one, am not...Although, I am slight bit surprised that it made it to the public and wasn't covered up.
I was also expecting that in such a sensitive time, with such an important job to do, and with a name like.."operation Iraqi Freedom", that these people would be treated with respect, so that they don't think we as Americans are bigots and disgusting retards.
President Bush and his Administration put these people there, because he wants to protect our country, and help the Iraqis onto the road to freedom.
This is what he'd have us believe is our mission. If it wasn't "So surprising" that this type of thing would happen, then why the f**k would Bush start a war with the impression that we are going in to free these people, rather than beat them and torture them and make them have orgies with each other on camera?
Bush better f*****g be surprised...
Last edited by Syke on 04/30/04 - 14:38; edited 1 time in total
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 14:37 Post subject:
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Yeah, everyone knows this kind of stuff goes on in war. Most soldiers don't do it, but some inevitably will - there's always people who can't handle having power over others. My impression is that it's not the professional soldiers who were guilty, but reservists who didn't have a lot of training, and the lately ever-present "civilian contractors". It's a huge setback to the overall war effort, because it gives our enemies ammunition against us that we really can't counter.
But I do think that it's to our credit that it's not hushed up and denied, and I hope that will gradually become apparent to the world - they know too that things like this always happen, but maybe they'll realize that it's not as often that it gets exposed and prosecuted so publically. You have to have some trust in a country who's as willing to air their faults as they are to trumpet their successes.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 14:45 Post subject:
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i love the double standards the world has
when we capture the bad guys, the worst they can expect is something much akin to pledge week for a college frat
when our troops get captured, the worst we can expect is real torture. for example: breaking of bones, beatings, electricution torture, not being fed, stabbed, shot, drugged, water tortures, and even death
give me a f*****g break
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 14:48 Post subject:
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| Paco wrote: | i love the double standards the world has
when we capture the bad guys, the worst they can expect is something much akin to pledge week for a college frat
when our troops get captured, the worst we can expect is real torture. for example: breaking of bones, beatings, electricution torture, not being fed, stabbed, shot, drugged, water tortures, and even death
give me a f*****g break |
We are supposed to be superior, not equals, to f*****g disgusting terrorist murderers.
You wanna go torture and rape them, go right a-f*****g head. There's no way anyone here would support that behavior, you know it's wrong.
In a time like this, it's f*****g ESPECIALLY wrong. You want to get the entire world p****d off at us, because we have a lack of morals and respect and f*****g tactfullness? ..Cmon Paco, I know it's funny to picture Iraqi's butt humping each other with your pals from division (whatever), but honestly man...what the f**k would that get us?
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 14:53 Post subject:
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Dunno, I'm not in the pictures. 
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 15:00 Post subject:
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| Paco wrote: | | Dunno, I'm not in the pictures. |
Terrible :\
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Sabathius
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2179
Location: San Angelo
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 15:41 Post subject:
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1. They are a defeated people.
2. We can f**k with them if we want.
3. STFU
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 15:51 Post subject:
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| Sabathius wrote: | 1. They are a defeated people.
2. We can f**k with them if we want.
3. STFU |
f*****g moron. I'm all into killing real ennemies but if you would do that kind of shit in front of me...I would gladly shot you in the guts right in front of them and then let them deal with you.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 17:35 Post subject:
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| Syke wrote: | | Dril wrote: | | I'm not excusing their actions, obviously it's stupid. But I don't know why people act all surprised like nothing of this nature ever goes on. |
Who's surprised? I for one, am not...Although, I am slight bit surprised that it made it to the public and wasn't covered up.
I was also expecting that in such a sensitive time, with such an important job to do, and with a name like.."operation Iraqi Freedom", that these people would be treated with respect, so that they don't think we as Americans are bigots and disgusting retards.
President Bush and his Administration put these people there, because he wants to protect our country, and help the Iraqis onto the road to freedom.
This is what he'd have us believe is our mission. If it wasn't "So surprising" that this type of thing would happen, then why the f**k would Bush start a war with the impression that we are going in to free these people, rather than beat them and torture them and make them have orgies with each other on camera?
Bush better f*****g be surprised... |
Syke, this isn't about Bush. It's about a few, very stupid soldiers that deserve to be locked in a cell and court-martialed.
It's disheartening that even one soldier would do something like this but there's no way to avoid it. All we can do is punish the offenders after the fact.
This is especially stupid since the Middle East is apparently greatly overreacting to this report. The vast majority of our armed forces don't act like this and this doesn't change our intentions. I would hope they would see this.
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 17:37 Post subject: -==-
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Not that I'm excusing the soldiers actions or anything, but it would be a little ironic if the entire Arab community hated the US over this. I mean, how many damn times have I heard Muslim is a religion of peace after 9/11, and we shouldn't judge all the arabs based on the actions of a few.
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Herbgotti
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 2110
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 17:42 Post subject:
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"They have not just lost the hearts and minds of Iraqis but all the Third World and the Arab countries," he told Reuters.
OHHHHHHHH NOZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ !?!??!? ROFL !
Anyhow, that was quite crual and childesh ( though funny ) what the soldiers did to the Iraqis... Then again, arn't these the same fux who TERRORIZE ??? In that case, who gives a f**k ?
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 17:45 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | | Syke wrote: | | Dril wrote: | | I'm not excusing their actions, obviously it's stupid. But I don't know why people act all surprised like nothing of this nature ever goes on. |
Who's surprised? I for one, am not...Although, I am slight bit surprised that it made it to the public and wasn't covered up.
I was also expecting that in such a sensitive time, with such an important job to do, and with a name like.."operation Iraqi Freedom", that these people would be treated with respect, so that they don't think we as Americans are bigots and disgusting retards.
President Bush and his Administration put these people there, because he wants to protect our country, and help the Iraqis onto the road to freedom.
This is what he'd have us believe is our mission. If it wasn't "So surprising" that this type of thing would happen, then why the f**k would Bush start a war with the impression that we are going in to free these people, rather than beat them and torture them and make them have orgies with each other on camera?
Bush better f*****g be surprised... |
Syke, this isn't about Bush. It's about a few, very stupid soldiers that deserve to be locked in a cell and court-martialed.
It's disheartening that even one soldier would do something like this but there's no way to avoid it. All we can do is punish the offenders after the fact.
This is especially stupid since the Middle East is apparently greatly overreacting to this report. The vast majority of our armed forces don't act like this and this doesn't change our intentions. I would hope they would see this. |
I'm not saying it has anything to do with Bush besides the fact that this operation was labelled, "Operation Iraqi Freedom", not "Butt hump the Locals in Iraq"....
I was more referring to the take Dril had on the situation when he said..."I dunno why everyone acts all surprised, it's reality"
It should be a surprise, is what I'm saying, considering the circumstances.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 17:45 Post subject:
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| Syke wrote: | | Paco wrote: | i love the double standards the world has
when we capture the bad guys, the worst they can expect is something much akin to pledge week for a college frat
when our troops get captured, the worst we can expect is real torture. for example: breaking of bones, beatings, electricution torture, not being fed, stabbed, shot, drugged, water tortures, and even death
give me a f*****g break |
We are supposed to be superior, not equals, to f*****g disgusting terrorist murderers.
You wanna go torture and rape them, go right a-f*****g head. There's no way anyone here would support that behavior, you know it's wrong.
In a time like this, it's f*****g ESPECIALLY wrong. You want to get the entire world p****d off at us, because we have a lack of morals and respect and f*****g tactfullness? ..Cmon Paco, I know it's funny to picture Iraqi's butt humping each other with your pals from division (whatever), but honestly man...what the f**k would that get us? |
WOW, i actually agree w/you on something.
f**k the iraqi scum, torture the f**k out of them imo!
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 17:46 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: | | Sabathius wrote: | 1. They are a defeated people.
2. We can f**k with them if we want.
3. STFU |
f*****g moron. I'm all into killing real ennemies but if you would do that kind of shit in front of me...I would gladly shot you in the guts right in front of them and then let them deal with you. |
Oh you f*****g anti-american scum, eat shit and die m**********r.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 17:47 Post subject:
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| wellspoken wrote: | | Syke wrote: | | Paco wrote: | i love the double standards the world has
when we capture the bad guys, the worst they can expect is something much akin to pledge week for a college frat
when our troops get captured, the worst we can expect is real torture. for example: breaking of bones, beatings, electricution torture, not being fed, stabbed, shot, drugged, water tortures, and even death
give me a f*****g break |
We are supposed to be superior, not equals, to f*****g disgusting terrorist murderers.
You wanna go torture and rape them, go right a-f*****g head. There's no way anyone here would support that behavior, you know it's wrong.
In a time like this, it's f*****g ESPECIALLY wrong. You want to get the entire world p****d off at us, because we have a lack of morals and respect and f*****g tactfullness? ..Cmon Paco, I know it's funny to picture Iraqi's butt humping each other with your pals from division (whatever), but honestly man...what the f**k would that get us? |
WOW, i actually agree w/you on something.
f**k the iraqi scum, torture the f**k out of them imo! |
Of course you agree...who wouldn't?
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 04/30/04 - 17:49 Post subject:
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| Syke wrote: | | wellspoken wrote: | | Syke wrote: | | Paco wrote: | i love the double standards the world has
when we capture the bad guys, the worst they can expect is something much akin to pledge week for a college frat
when our troops get captured, the worst we can expect is real torture. for example: breaking of bones, beatings, electricution torture, not being fed, stabbed, shot, drugged, water tortures, and even death
give me a f*****g break |
We are supposed to be superior, not equals, to f*****g disgusting terrorist murderers.
You wanna go torture and rape them, go right a-f*****g head. There's no way anyone here would support that behavior, you know it's wrong.
In a time like this, it's f*****g ESPECIALLY wrong. You want to get the entire world p****d off at us, because we have a lack of morals and respect and f*****g tactfullness? ..Cmon Paco, I know it's funny to picture Iraqi's butt humping each other with your pals from division (whatever), but honestly man...what the f**k would that get us? |
WOW, i actually agree w/you on something.
f**k the iraqi scum, torture the f**k out of them imo! |
Of course you agree...who wouldn't? |
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