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Banzai
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 Posted: 10/09/03 - 10:36 Post subject: The universe might be getting much, MUCH smaller...
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http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/10/09/universe.soccer.ball.reut/index.html
Hard to actually prove something of this scope but if scientist are to base a modle off of current data, the universe might just be finite. Soccer ball shaped in theory.
"Scientists think universe shaped like soccer ball
Thursday, October 9, 2003 Posted: 10:18 AM EDT (1418 GMT)
A new study suggests the cosmos could be dodecahedral, or 12 spherical pentagons tiled together on a sphere.
LONDON (Reuters) -- The universe may be finite, spherical and patched together like a soccer ball, according to U.S. and French researchers.
Jeffrey Weeks, a MacArthur Fellow based in Canton, New York, and researchers from the University of Paris and Observatory of Paris studied astronomical data which suggests the universe is finite and made of curved pentagons joined together into a sphere.
In research reported in the Thursday edition of the science journal Nature, the scientists said data from NASA's Wilkinson Microwave Anisotrophy Probe, which maps background radiation left over from the Big Bang, is not consistent with an infinite universe.
"Since antiquity, humans have wondered whether our universe is finite or infinite. Now, after more than two millennia of speculation, observational data might finally settle the ancient question," Weeks said.
In a commentary on the research, George Ellis of the University of Cape Town in South Africa, said if Weeks and his colleagues are correct we might indeed live is a small, closed universe."
I still trying to wrap my haed around that idea.
The thing is frickin huge but finite? Just... wow.
I have to think that this is just limited to our 4 demesional universe as I'd like to beleve that there are layers on top of this on that work on other base units other than 5.
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Renork
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Joined: 23 Jun 2003
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 10:39 Post subject:
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pretty f*****g cool
but what is outside "our" universe then??
if ours stops somewhere, what starts where we end
Last edited by Renork on 10/09/03 - 10:43; edited 1 time in total
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compusmack
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Joined: 15 Oct 2002
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 10:41 Post subject:
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interesting.
It's quite enormous, yet finite. It's hard to believe there could be something different outside of it, but something must be there.
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Banzai
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 10:46 Post subject:
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| Tinkle wrote: | pretty f*****g cool
but what is outside "our" universe then??
if ours stops somewhere, what starts where we end |
Nothing would be outsdie of it, it is a globe so no matter where you begin you will eventually get back to that point.
Kinda makes sesen, all of life being a circle and all. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
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BlingBling
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 20 Dec 2002
Posts: 944
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 10:49 Post subject:
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this is what makes me think.....if there is an end? what is it a wall? a field of nothingness that cant be passed or touched?
very interesting indeed.....
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Zwadrich
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Joined: 12 Oct 2002
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 10:49 Post subject:
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OMG THE DOCUMETN HSA TEH WORD FRENCH IN IT! FLAME ON!!!!!!!! 
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Banzai
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 10:50 Post subject:
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| compusmack wrote: | interesting.
It's quite enormous, yet finite. It's hard to believe there could be something different outside of it, but something must be there. |
y, z, x, and time are all we can comprehend, when you put that into terms of visual perspective adn realize we only see a fraction of what is really around us I imgain the same is true for dimesions as well. There could be a billion variations not only of this universe stacked right on top of itself but a billion diffrent vaiations of dimesions on top of that.
Reminds me of the experiment whereby we can just barly percive our reality diverge into 2 paths in every moment we live. Involves a lasre that occupies the same space at the same time.
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Renork
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 10:51 Post subject:
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| Banzai wrote: | | Tinkle wrote: | pretty f*****g cool
but what is outside "our" universe then??
if ours stops somewhere, what starts where we end |
Nothing would be outsdie of it, it is a globe so no matter where you begin you will eventually get back to that point.
Kinda makes sesen, all of life being a circle and all. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. |
unless i am completly f*****g up with my thinking here,
The Earth is a globe and you can travel outside its boudries, the galaxie not realy a globe but kinda same principal. then universe. whats to say our universe isnt rotating around some central point with a few others?? or a million other possibilites??
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Banzai
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 10:53 Post subject:
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| BlingBling wrote: | this is what makes me think.....if there is an end? what is it a wall? a field of nothingness that cant be passed or touched?
very interesting indeed..... |
As they explain it you would never hit a wall but continue in a pentogonish circle forever.
Imagine 2 soccer balls that are connected at one point all the time. That one point is you. You can rotate around the surface of both soccer balls forever moveing across the ball but connected at one point, passing each juncture. you can move around and around and eventually come back to the same spot even if you make a turn. The number of degrees are finite but the surface area is infinate becasue you are basically traveling in a circle.
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Banzai
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 10:59 Post subject:
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| Tinkle wrote: | | Banzai wrote: | | Tinkle wrote: | pretty f*****g cool
but what is outside "our" universe then??
if ours stops somewhere, what starts where we end |
Nothing would be outsdie of it, it is a globe so no matter where you begin you will eventually get back to that point.
Kinda makes sesen, all of life being a circle and all. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. |
unless i am completly f*****g up with my thinking here,
The Earth is a globe and you can travel outside its boudries, the galaxie not realy a globe but kinda same principal. then universe. whats to say our universe isnt rotating around some central point with a few others?? or a million other possibilites?? |
Good point, I don't know how they determine that this closed circut comes back on itself or how they don't figure there isn't another system that this one is integrated into. They said something about the background radiation and how it isn't consistant with a big bang but more of a feedback loop so that might be the answer.
A globe is a diffrent situation then a system which is diffrent form a galaxy with is diffrent than a cluster, this seems to be the biggest of the big pictures for now. Going down a globe is diffrent than a compound which is diffrent than an atom which is diffrent than a quark but maybe the systems wrap around at one point and the most basic sturcure in the universe is actually the same blueprint as the largest... maybe even one in the same... woudn't that be a trip?
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Renork
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Joined: 23 Jun 2003
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 11:08 Post subject:
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that would be realy realy cool if it is all the same basic design, what about the idea of universes within universes??
i forget where i read this or heard it (could very easily be from a movie or a book and im dawing on it thinking it was real) but it went something like. basicly in everything there are infinate universes and we are part of another whole. In one blade of grass there is infinate universes and then in each of those infinate in each part of it and so on. if i remember where i got this from by the end of class ill try to post it 
Edit: I just remembered where i got that from lol, read it in a Steven King Book, either the end of the first of start of the second in the dark tower series. If i can find the text online ill try to post it.
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Banzai
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 11:25 Post subject:
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| Tinkle wrote: | that would be realy realy cool if it is all the same basic design, what about the idea of universes within universes??
i forget where i read this or heard it (could very easily be from a movie or a book and im dawing on it thinking it was real) but it went something like. basicly in everything there are infinate universes and we are part of another whole. In one blade of grass there is infinate universes and then in each of those infinate in each part of it and so on. if i remember where i got this from by the end of class ill try to post it |
I've thought on that many a time. our own bodies are totaly systems of liveing systems withint systems. There is a galaxy of interdependant creatures in all of us. Then on all of them are cells that have liveing parts which in turn have sections that work with other sections. But what if you go dowsn far enough you come to something that resembles our universal picture, then if you zoom in you see soemthing that look like our solar system (atoms) then you go down to a atom that looks like our planet, one nuetron, one leectron (hydrogen) then you go into that atom and see it looks like our planet, then zoom into what looks like your house, then you see yourself looking into a microscope looking at yourself...
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Renork
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Joined: 23 Jun 2003
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 11:36 Post subject:
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if you wana read a good book that goes into some of this stuff(science fiction book) read TimeLine by Michael Crichton. Realy good imo and has some nice theory stuff tossed in (Quantum Theory and such). Dont wait for the movie because from the small trailer i have sceen it apears that they have changed a greeat deal from the origional story line.
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Renork
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Joined: 23 Jun 2003
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 11:45 Post subject:
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ok heres a diagram i got off cnn.com
so if its like this, are there only "things" on the surface of this sphere or are there galaxies inside moving toward the center? the "surface" of the ball is just the outside "wall" right? not where everything is.[/img]
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Banzai
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 12:00 Post subject:
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Ok, let me try to clarify.
The reason I tried to bring in the modle of 2 balls connected at one point was to illistrate the concept. The ball is just the shape but since it's a closed circut there is no surface per se.
So if you are thinking about leaveing the surface of that modle like you would leaveing the surface of a ball you will get confused. What you percieve as leaving the surface of the ball is actually a continuation on the surface, so you might percieve a straight line coming off the surface that line actually bends around and connects to another point on the surface.
If you hold in your mind the 2 balls and one point connecting them you get a better representation as since it is all innnerconnected you can travel in any direction and still come back to the origninal point, even if you go in a straight line away from where you came.
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sinrakin
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Nugjar Lives!
Luke Warm
Joined: 05 Nov 2002
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 12:25 Post subject:
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Could I buy some pot from you?
The theory of our entire galaxy being an atom on te fingernail of some giant being, that was all in the movie "Animal House", during the pot smoking scene in Donald Sutherland's house.
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Sasa
Sir Postalot
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 12:26 Post subject:
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We are just merely playthings of another realm.
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Banzai
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 12:26 Post subject:
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So then Bluto represents the big bang in the zit sceen?
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Renork
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Joined: 23 Jun 2003
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 12:36 Post subject:
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| Banzai wrote: | Ok, let me try to clarify.
The reason I tried to bring in the modle of 2 balls connected at one point was to illistrate the concept. The ball is just the shape but since it's a closed circut there is no surface per se.
So if you are thinking about leaveing the surface of that modle like you would leaveing the surface of a ball you will get confused. What you percieve as leaving the surface of the ball is actually a continuation on the surface, so you might percieve a straight line coming off the surface that line actually bends around and connects to another point on the surface.
If you hold in your mind the 2 balls and one point connecting them you get a better representation as since it is all innnerconnected you can travel in any direction and still come back to the origninal point, even if you go in a straight line away from where you came. |
thanks i think that cleared up most of my confusion
cept for one thing, everything is on the surface and the surface alone or there is stuff inside the "ball"
maybe im stil just as confused but think i understand it better lol
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sinrakin
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 12:47 Post subject:
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Think of it like playing an old game of Asteroids. When the spaceship flies off the right side of the screen, it reappeats on the left. If it goes off the top edge of the screen, it reappears at the bottom edge. This is the same thing; it's just that if as you move outward toward one face of the soccer ball, you reappear at the opposite face.
There aren't really "faces" of course, it's just a continuous space. Like in the two-dimensional Asteroids example - that flat screen looks like it has four "edges" but it really doesn't - topologically it's really just the surface of a donut.
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Zapper
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Location: Connecticut
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 12:58 Post subject:
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It's like in Asteroid when you go off the right hand side of the screen you come out the left side!!!
WTF I should read the posts above mine =/ 
Last edited by Zapper on 10/09/03 - 12:59; edited 1 time in total
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Nemo
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 12:58 Post subject:
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| Tinkle wrote: |
unless i am completly f*****g up with my thinking here,
The Earth is a ?? |
They still teach that in School....the earth is Phlat....duh..
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Banzai
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 13:23 Post subject:
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the ball itself is empty space. The points represent events in time/space such as planets, sytems, and galaxies. In a universal modle glaxies would be at the points and the ball is the space between them.
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Guest
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 14:00 Post subject:
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| Sasa wrote: | | We are just merely playthings of another realm. |
Bingo.
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Pankrat
Can't Stop Posting
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Location: Land of Paranoia
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 14:10 Post subject:
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When they talk about the shape of the universe being a ball or sphere they really mean a hyper-ball or sphere. It is not an actual ball as there is no boundary or edge.
In that diagram the 3 dimension of space are represented as the surface of the ball (even though in the picture it is a 2 dimensional flat surface) - in other words on that surface you can travel in any of 3 dimensions forever without reaching a boundary, but the 3 dimensional "surface" is curved in another dimension (that you can't perceive or visualize), so that ultimately you will end up where you started if you travel far and long enough.
The other interesting thing about this is that the size of the hyper ball (the actual space fabric of the universe) is expanding to a ever larger and larger size. One of the ongoing debates is wether there is enough matter in the universe to create enough of a gravitational brake to halt the expansion and begin to shrink it back down into a "big crunch" or whether the universe will continue to expand forever, and just fade away into a cold death... Most of the evidence is pointing towards continued expansion...
Last edited by Pankrat on 10/09/03 - 14:13; edited 1 time in total
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Booker
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 14:13 Post subject:
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this post needs gaping anus to be complete
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Janoth
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 14:25 Post subject:
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Our universe is a small marble placed on a cats belt who is protecting us from bugs who want to take us and use our universe as an infinate power source to destroy the Arkilians!
Everything smaller than us is eventually destroyed, therefore everything bigger than us can also be destroyed. What if Will Smith accedently fires his laser gun and hits our universe! omg
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Maelstrom
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 14:58 Post subject:
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The Universe is our play ground, its the limit of were we can go without getting a slap on the ass like a kid at day care.
Lets face it the most intelligent people on earth have problems understanding our own planet...so before they understand the Universe...so easy to make theories by yourself knowing that no one can check them out.
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Silvermouse
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Posted: 10/09/03 - 18:13 Post subject:
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This will be the first thing I ask Jesus to clarify before He sends someone to send me to Hell.
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