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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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 Posted: 10/14/04 - 13:52 Post subject: The sad thing about debates
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The whole debate process depresses me. Each candidate (in every election) has a huge record of their life's work to run on. It is 4 years of the presidency for the incumbent, and in this case at hte minimum 20 years in the Senate for Kerry. THAT is what the candidates should be judged on, not who can come up with the best sound bytes in 3 debates.
The skills crucial for debating are not necessarily the same ones you want in a president. Presidents are CEOs, executives - they need to be able to assemble the relevant data, listen to advisors, and make decisions based upon that. Being able to do it all on your own is not required, or even optimal in many cases.
Anyone who bases their decision on the debates is ignoring the truly vital information in this race, and I would prefer they not vote at all. Whichever candidate one supports, people should vote on their relevant life's history (i.e. not 30 year old Vietnam shit) and what the candidates have actually done, as opposed to what they have repeated from their campaign advisors during the past year.
I would rather we not even have debates.
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themy
Sir Postalot
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 1153
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:04 Post subject:
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Kerry cannot go on his past records, why? because he didn't even make it to any of the public meetings of the security council after 9/11 to present. Who the heck would want someone who says he wants to protect our country so much but doesn't even make one single meeting?
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:08 Post subject:
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Vek knows Kerry is a better orator so he wants to take empahsis off the debates.
How Republican of you. 
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themy
Sir Postalot
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 1153
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:12 Post subject:
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| Megalo wrote: | Vek knows Kerry is a better orator so he wants to take empahsis off the debates.
How Republican of you. |
debates don't mean much, it's just a bunch of rhetoric and dancing around questions. and not to mention false hope for the people aswell. people should vote on facts, as i have stated in my reply above =/
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:14 Post subject:
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Um...debates don't mean much?
I just heard more policy last night than I have in the last 4 months prior.
Tell me you knew all their policies before these debates and I'll happily call you a lair.
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:17 Post subject:
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How about responding to the subject of my post Megalo? Debates can tell you 1 thing about a candidate - who is more eloquent and better able to come up with sharp answers on their feet with no prep time.
When does a president ever have to do that? That is what a Cabinet and the entire Executive Branch are for, so the president can listen to experts and then base his decision upon their knowledge and advice.
There is a reason governors become presidents and senators do not -- we need decision makers, not debaters.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:18 Post subject:
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I'd like to see a simple list of which way they're going. Write down your own preferences and you'd see who matches your beliefs the most.
I imagine it would look something like this:
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Issue Bush Kerry
Gays in Space No Yes
Gays on TV Yes Yes
Cowboys on RP Yes No
Iraq Yes Undecided
Nuclear Power Yes Undecided
Solar Energy No Undecided
Free Tylenol No Undecided
Free Welfare No Undecided
Bomb Brown People Yes Undecided
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etc.
Would make deciding who to vote for a lot easier, and cut through a lot of b******t.
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themy
Sir Postalot
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 1153
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:20 Post subject:
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| Megalo wrote: | Um...debates don't mean much?
I just heard more policy last night than I have in the last 4 months prior.
Tell me you knew all their policies before these debates and I'll happily call you a lair. |
yes the debate does bring that out, but as occ stated it would be much easier and less time consuming if they just made a list haha.
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:26 Post subject:
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I don't want to get into your Republican rhetoric Vek.
Human nature of you to try to pawn off the debates since Dubbya is losing them.
Fact of the matter is big bucks and big business put an **alcoholic Jesus freak with the IQ of a rock** into office. Think he GRADEYATED from Yale on his own? He's run more companies into the ground than you could even dream up of starting.
And because you somehow identify with the Republicans, even tho you're lightyears away from a $200k income, you somehow turn him into someone capable.
That's f****n funny.
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Zonk
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 976
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:31 Post subject:
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stfu Megalo.
God your a stupid f**k.
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:31 Post subject:
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it's "you're" genius
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:42 Post subject:
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newsflash for Megalo - I don't like Bush. He is expanding government, too religious and too right wing in general. I am a libertarian who votes Republican as the lesser of 2 evils.
But I think Bush is doing the right thing in the war on islamic fascism, and I believe in cutting taxes (don't even start, teh rich pay more so of course they get more tax cuts).
Kerry is a fringe left wing loser, hasn't accomplished 1 f*****g thing in 20 years in the Senate, not a single f*****g bill with his name on it. He will appoint liberal judges to further erode the Constitution, expand government at every chance he gets, and return the war on Islamo-fascism to the Clinton model of law enforcement, which didn't work.
How's that strike you Megalo? still call me a blind Republican lapdog?
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:45 Post subject:
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I do think you're smarter than the average person. I'll give ya that much.
If you blindly vote for a Republican President (lesser of two evils as you say), you aren't much better than the people you mock for getting their info from debates.
Now are ya?
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Zonk
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 976
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:46 Post subject:
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| Quote: | it's "you're" genius
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i dont give a f**k what it is die in a fire plz.
| Quote: | newsflash for Megalo - I don't like Bush. He is expanding government, too religious and too right wing in general. I am a libertarian who votes Republican as the lesser of 2 evils.
But I think Bush is doing the right thing in the war on islamic fascism, and I believe in cutting taxes (don't even start, teh rich pay more so of course they get more tax cuts).
Kerry is a fringe left wing loser, hasn't accomplished 1 f*****g thing in 20 years in the Senate, not a single f*****g bill with his name on it. He will appoint liberal judges to further erode the Constitution, expand government at every chance he gets, and return the war on Islamo-fascism to the Clinton model of law enforcement, which didn't work.
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/nod Vek
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themy
Sir Postalot
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 1153
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:47 Post subject:
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megalo isn't stupid at all... although if you do dislike him so much how about you get some valid points in here instead of showing yourself to be a 14 years old gimp?
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:47 Post subject:
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And jewboy, you shouldn't put religion into your arguments when trying to make yourself look unbiased.
Huh Jewsifer?
Did you just wake up? Kinda slow today..
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themy
Sir Postalot
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 1153
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:51 Post subject:
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and i believe bush is doing partly the right thing in the whole middle east/israel thing. i think israel should give back the land they gained when egypt, jordan, and syria tried to attack them. not because it was wrong to take the land but as a show of good faith. after they do this if the islamic jihad/hamas people do one suicide bomb, just one even (on eunprovoked one, IE no gunship asassinations) then the U.S. should go in and take matters in to their own hands and cleanse the region of these extremists.
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:53 Post subject:
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You wanna know where I AM coming from?
Less than 6 months I *will be* in that top 1%. Would be very easy for me to say "f**k everyone else, I'm Mike Jones and I got mine!"
But not $ nor ideology or anything else for that matter can rationalize starting a war and killing tens of thousands of innocent people.
That war was started with FALSE info. Info he already knew to be false. But he killed all these people anyway.
Why? So his family could make EVEN MORE f*****g MONEY.
That's wrong. I dont' care how Jewish you are.
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xeqer
Luke Warm
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 348
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 14:56 Post subject:
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| Megalo wrote: | You wanna know where I AM coming from?
Less than 6 months I *will be* in that top 1%. Would be very easy for me to say "f**k everyone else, I'm Mike Jones and I got mine!"
But not $ nor ideology or anything else for that matter can rationalize starting a war and killing tens of thousands of innocent people.
That war was started with FALSE info. Info he already knew to be false. But he killed all these people anyway.
Why? So his family could make EVEN MORE f*****g MONEY.
That's wrong. I dont' care how Jewish you are. |
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 15:00 Post subject:
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You got it, X.
All people in power are going to lie to their people. I think that's universal.
But there are some things you really really REALLY shouldn't lie about to profit from financially.
Don't ya think?
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Zonk
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 976
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 15:03 Post subject:
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Themy wrote:
| Quote: | | megalo isn't stupid at all... although if you do dislike him so much how about you get some valid points in here instead of showing yourself to be a 14 years old gimp? |
Debates in Bush's Case dont mean as much because we all know he is not the Calendar boy for Grammer Speech, and Amazeing Eloquently put toghther phrases. He talkes straight from the heart and is strong in his convictions and resolve.
John Kerry on the other hand is a great debater with alot of neat words and phrases. In the end though its just all steam blown straight up our asses because he cannot back up or will not be able to do the things he says if he becomes president.
So who really won the debate. In turns of simple debateing practices and judgement Kerry won, but he won because he kept giveing the false sense of hope and credibility to the programs he proposes. He is a flip flopper and his record has proved it. Do we want a president that does that? One that cant make up his mind? and its not just 4 years of this its 20 f*****g years of this record. Like Vek said he hasnt done shit and will not do shit if he is president.
Bush on the other hand might have made some bad decisions but at least he made decisions and is going to stick it out and not play politics and be a slick wily liar just to cover up the Political Gap.
You choose, its your right but look deeper before you make a Judgement.
And Yes, i still stick to my decision that Megalo can jump in a fire mabye it will help him make better judgement. Plus i f*****g hate grammer Nazi's i suck at grammer but dont flame me about it you sound like my grandma.
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 15:03 Post subject:
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| Quote: | Why? So his family could make EVEN MORE f*****g MONEY.
That's wrong. I dont' care how Jewish you are. |
I am done with you, idiot. Parroting anti-Semitic stereotypes is pathetic.
One last point for you Megalo
| Quote: | And jewboy, you shouldn't put religion into your arguments when trying to make yourself look unbiased.
Huh Jewsifer?
Did you just wake up? Kinda slow today |
And as everyone on this damned board knows, I am Jewish by heritage (its my ancestry and bloodline) and atheist by choice and beliefs. I think religion has no place in the public arena, its my single biggest complaint against Bush.
Megalo, the bigotry inside you rears its ugly head. Another hypocritical liberal.
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Zonk
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 976
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 15:08 Post subject:
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Yea im gonna go ahead and label you as a racist b*****d Megalo, since you labeled Vekril as a Jewish piece of shit.
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 15:11 Post subject:
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Vek, you should know me well enough by now to know that I'll say much WORSE about Christians.
Relgious people are all the same to me: worshiping imaginary things in the sky.
*edit* And your "heritage" causes you to believe religious actions. That makes you Jewish through and through. Don't twist things for your own argument.
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 15:12 Post subject:
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what i hate about the debates is the fact that everything is spun.
candidates spedn more time trying NOT to say something (because they might offend someone with a vote) than trying to say something.
this exists on both sides, for many years.
The election advisrs all believe (and it is true to some extent) -
you cannot win an election in a debate - but you can sure p**s off some potential voters.
so both candidates spend time trying to make the other guy look unreliable, or wishy washy, dangerous, or incompitant (the i'm not him platform - both bush and kerry practice this)
really the debates only serve to inforce my sense of political apathy.
and then my favorite people in the world take over - the pundits - kill every spin doctor in the world and baste them in pundit bloos, the world would be a better place.
peace
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 15:14 Post subject:
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You brough up Islam, specifically.
Now what causes you to hate them? Your Jewish "heritage", also known as beliefs, also known as religion.
Comon Vekky....don't split hairs. This war is popular with you because they are Muslim and you are Jewish. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 15:14 Post subject:
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your first quote parrots the ugly stereotype that Jews are cheap bastards and overly concerned with money, as exemplified by the phrase "Jew someone down"
That is not criticizing a religious belief. That is perpetuating a vile, bigoted stereotype.
Last post from me to you on this subject, I suggest you do some self-exploration and find out just how "liberal and enlightened" you really are.
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 15:16 Post subject:
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Oh Jesus H. Christ (and like you, i don't think he existed either) Vek.
I am the bleeding heart do-gooder of this board if there is one. I hate everyone equally until they give me reason to hate them more so than someone else.
I knew that would get my point across and I certainly did. And in an inflamitory mannor? Why....I would never do that!
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 15:17 Post subject:
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But if your political argument rests on my "bigotry", then so be it. You need the help.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 10/14/04 - 15:22 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | How about responding to the subject of my post Megalo? Debates can tell you 1 thing about a candidate - who is more eloquent and better able to come up with sharp answers on their feet with no prep time.
When does a president ever have to do that? That is what a Cabinet and the entire Executive Branch are for, so the president can listen to experts and then base his decision upon their knowledge and advice.
There is a reason governors become presidents and senators do not -- we need decision makers, not debaters. |
Any gungho country singer could run the U.S.A. like George Bush. In actuality, it's Cheney who would make the better president. Hell, I'd vote for Rudy Giuliani if he ran.
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