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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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 Posted: 10/15/04 - 13:01 Post subject: The difference between Israel and Arabs
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read this one liberals and Israel haters, notice who it was written by...
| Quote: | Remarks of Brigitte Gabriel
to be delivered at the
Duke University Counter Terrorism
Speak out
October 14, 2004
I am proud and honored to stand here today as a Lebanese speaking for Israel the only democracy in the Middle East. As someone who was raised in an Arabic country I want to give you a glimpse into the heart of the Arabic world.
I was raised in Lebanon where I was taught that the Jews were evil, Israel was the devil, and the only time we will have peace in the Middle East is when we kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea.
When the Moslems and Palestinians declared Jihad on the Christians in 1975, they started massacring the Christians City after city. I ended up living in a bomb shelter underground from age 10 to 17 without electricity eating grass to live and crawling under sniper bullets to a spring to get water.
It was Israel who came to help the Christians in Lebanon. My mother was wounded by a Moslems shell and was taken into an Israeli hospital for treatment. When we entered the emergency room I was shocked at what I saw. They were hundreds of people wounded, Moslems, Palestinians, Christian Lebanese and Israeli soldiers lying on the floor. The doctors treated everyone according to their injury. They treated my mother before they treated the Israeli soldier lying next to her. They didn’t see religion they didn’t see political affiliation, they saw people in need and they helped.
For the first time in my life I experienced a human quality that I know my culture would not have shown to their enemy. I experienced the values of the Israelis who were able to love their enemy in their most trying moments. I spent 22 days at that hospital, those days changed my life and the way I believe information, the way I listen to the radio or to television. I realized I was sold a fabricated lie by my government about the Jews and Israel that was so far from reality. I knew for fact that if I was a Jew standing in an Arab hospital I would be lynched and thrown over to the grounds as shouts of joy of Allahu Akbar, God is great would echo through the hospital and the surrounding streets.
I became friends with the families of the Israeli wounded soldiers one in particular Rina, her only child was wounded in his eyes.
One day I was visiting with her and the Israeli army band came to play national songs to lift the spirits of the wounded soldiers. As they surrounded his bed playing a song about Jerusalem Rina and I started crying. I felt out of place and started waking out of the room, and this mother holds my hand and pulls me back in without even looking at me. She holds me crying and says: "it is not your fault" . We just stood there crying holding each other’s hands.
What a contrast between her, a mother looking at her deformed 19 year old only child, and still able to love me the enemy, and between a Moslem mother who sends her son to blow himself up to smithereens just to kill a few Jews or Christians.
The difference between the Arabic world and Israel is a difference in values and character. It’s barbarism verses civilization. It's democracy verses dictatorship. It’s goodness verses evil.
Once upon a time there was a special place in the lowest depths of hell for anyone who would intentionally murder a child. Now, the intentional murder of Israeli children is legitimized as Palestinian armed struggle. However, once such behavior is legitimized against Israel, it is legitimized every where in the world, constrained by nothing more than the subjective belief of people who would wrap themselves in dynamite and nails for the purpose of killing children in the name of god.
Because the Palestinians have been encouraged to believe that murdering innocent Israeli civilians is a legitimate tactic for advancing their cause, the whole world now suffers from a plague of terrorism, from Nairobi to New York, from Moscow to Madrid, from Bali to Beslan.
They blame suicide bombing on "desperation of occupation" Let me tell you the truth. The first major terror bombing committed by Arabs against the Jewish state occurred ten weeks before Israel even became independent. On Sunday morning, February 22, 1948, in anticipation of Israel’s independence, a triple truck bomb was detonated by Arab terrorists on Ben Yehuda Street in what was then the Jewish section of Jerusalem. Fifty-four people were killed and hundreds were wounded. Thus, it is obvious that Arab terrorism is caused not by the desperation of occupation, but by the VERY THOUGHT of a Jewish state.
So many times in history in the last 100 years, citizens have stood by and done nothing allowing evil to prevail. As America stood up against and defeated communism, now it is time to stand up against the terror of religious bigotry and intolerance. It’s time to all stand up and support and defend the state of Israel, which is the front line of the war against terrorism.
Thank you.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 10/15/04 - 13:16 Post subject:
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Spread your hate somewhere else, Vekril.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 10/15/04 - 13:20 Post subject:
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Pretty touching, but I kept waiting on the literotica. Where did she have an immoral union with her adulterous neighbor? Jesus, this sucked.
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 10/15/04 - 13:21 Post subject:
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Good read, thanks Vek.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 10/15/04 - 13:23 Post subject:
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I didn't read any of it. Someone quickly explain the plot!
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Conqueso
Luke Warm
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 388
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Posted: 10/15/04 - 13:35 Post subject:
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The Duke University Counterterrorism is in response to this: Duke University's Weekend Hate Fest, which is an "anti-Semitic and anti-American event still scheduled for this weekend on the Durham campus despite misrepresentation by the organizers over the event’s real purpose." It is being coordinated by Palestinian Solidarity Movement which openly supports Hamas. Here is some background information: Duke to host anti-Israel conference.
| Quote: | The Palestinian Solidarity Movement, allied with the controversial International Solidarity Movement, an organization that openly supports Hamas and calls for the destruction of Israel, is holding its conference to "put pressure on the Israeli government, partly by urging universities to sell their stock in companies with military ties to Israel."...
Renowned author and feminist Dr. Phillis Chesler, whose archives reside at Duke as part of a distinguished collection of intellectuals and activists, wrote a letter to Duke President Richard Brodhead, urging the University to reconsider hosting the conference.
"I understand that you and certain faculty members believe that [hosting the conference] constitutes your commitment to free speech and academic freedom. Ironically, Duke will be supporting a group – which is also known as the International Solidarity Movement – which does not believe in free speech or democracy and which endorses violence, mass murder, Jew-hatred and homicidal-suicide terrorism," wrote Chelser... |
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 10/15/04 - 14:11 Post subject:
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| Silvermouse wrote: | | I didn't read any of it. Someone quickly explain the plot! |
Summary -
Vekril hates arabs
Vekril likes jewish people
**Vekril does not want an independant Palestinian state - at least not one made up of a small piece of ex-Israel.
** I think - he never actually comes out and says what he thinks - only posts a interesting article that seems to have this view. This is, again, why I don't like people just posting shit cut-paste - or quoting - without giving THEIR analysis of what it is. Personally I don't give a shit what that woman's views are - but I am interested in whether or not Vekril agrees with everything in that article.. parts or it.. what? see, the readers (us) are left to guess...
oh well, rage against the machine, carry on
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 10/15/04 - 14:58 Post subject:
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| Quote: |
It’s barbarism verses civilization. It's democracy verses dictatorship. It’s goodness verses evil.
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The main idea of the article basically boils down to this, but if only it were that simple.
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Conqueso
Luke Warm
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 388
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Posted: 10/15/04 - 15:39 Post subject:
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Vekril's post is a reaction against This Thread.
| Quote: | Megalo
And jewboy, you shouldn't put religion into your arguments when trying to make yourself look unbiased.
Huh Jewsifer?
Vekril
Did you just wake up? Kinda slow todayAnd as everyone on this damned board knows, I am Jewish by heritage (its my ancestry and bloodline) and atheist by choice and beliefs. I think religion has no place in the public arena, its my single biggest complaint against Bush.
Megalo, the bigotry inside you rears its ugly head. Another hypocritical liberal. |
So Obmar, are you a Jew Hater? Is that why you immediately jumped on the wagon saying that Vekril is an "arab hater"? Do see things in terms of racism because you youself think in racist terms? If you dont understand why Vekril posted it, why not ask "why did you post it" without all the packaging? Of course, I assume that you are not a racist, but do you see how it feels when such things are thrown in your face?
Dyers, Rennol, and I had no problem understanding Vekril's post. Maybe Vekril wanted to point out that there is a lot more going on with "islamic fascism" versus Megalo's argument? We know that there are evil people out there that suicide bomb Jews as well as empty a clip into the back of a Palestian kid in Gaza. I can see how Vekril thought that maybe seeing a quote from someone that had experienced both sides of the situation would provide more insight?
I added in the additional background so people would know what is happening at Duke. It is not a well-known issue but is causing a lot of turmoil not only in Jewish communities. Maybe knowing the events surrounding the post can allow people to see why Vekril was affected by the comments made on the other thread and led up to posting the woman's declaration.
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 10/15/04 - 16:03 Post subject:
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No I don't hate jews...
what exactly in my post gave you that impression at all?
ah nevermind I understand
you mistook my tongue in cheek efforts, sir.
rest assured I do not hate anyone
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 10/15/04 - 22:52 Post subject:
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Actually Obmar I am not that radical when it comes to Israeli politics. I am in favor of a 2 state solution. Give the Palestinians ALL of Gaza, and in the West Bank Israel keeps the largest settlement blocks, evacuates the other, and trades land from within Israel for that which they gained via settlements.
However, until the Palestinians can prove they have renounced terror and accepted Israel's right to exist, Israel should maintain the ability to protect their own security and control the borders very tightly, as well as limit arms and such being imported into the new Palestinian state.
--
In regards to the body of hte article. I will say that I do agree that overall Israeli society is infinitely more civilized than any Arab or Muslim nation. Just compare the legal systems, treatment of women, treatment of religious minorities, educational systems and so forth. Israel is basically a western nation in the model of Europe and the US (close but not quite I will admit), while hte Arab and Muslim nations are sadly backwards.
Want to read a good book that dispels a lot of hte myths about the Arab Israeli conflicts? In Defense of Israel by Alan Dershowitz. He is a flaming liberal, Harvard professor and legal celebrity. Extensively footnoted with sources who are often anti-Israel, it really is a great read, halfway through it currently.
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Buckshot
Luke Warm
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 449
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Posted: 10/15/04 - 23:20 Post subject: Re: The difference between Israel and Arabs
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| Vekril wrote: | | I'm coming Grandma |
I THOUGHT IT WAS THE PEE PEE SKIN THAT SET THEM APART....?
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Buckshot
Luke Warm
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 449
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Posted: 10/15/04 - 23:22 Post subject:
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| Obmar wrote: | | No I don't hate jews...what exactly in my post gave you that impression at all? |
IT IS -HIS- HATRED FOR JEWS
CHILI CONQUESO HATES JEWS HE HATES WOMEN SPIKS AND n*****s AS WELL
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 10/16/04 - 02:25 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | Actually Obmar I am not that radical when it comes to Israeli politics. I am in favor of a 2 state solution. Give the Palestinians ALL of Gaza, and in the West Bank Israel keeps the largest settlement blocks, evacuates the other, and trades land from within Israel for that which they gained via settlements.
However, until the Palestinians can prove they have renounced terror and accepted Israel's right to exist, Israel should maintain the ability to protect their own security and control the borders very tightly, as well as limit arms and such being imported into the new Palestinian state.
--
In regards to the body of hte article. I will say that I do agree that overall Israeli society is infinitely more civilized than any Arab or Muslim nation. Just compare the legal systems, treatment of women, treatment of religious minorities, educational systems and so forth. Israel is basically a western nation in the model of Europe and the US (close but not quite I will admit), while hte Arab and Muslim nations are sadly backwards.
Want to read a good book that dispels a lot of hte myths about the Arab Israeli conflicts? In Defense of Israel by Alan Dershowitz. He is a flaming liberal, Harvard professor and legal celebrity. Extensively footnoted with sources who are often anti-Israel, it really is a great read, halfway through it currently. |
Much respec
This is the type of thing I can totally understand. A man articulating what his beliefs are. I actually have spent some time pining over this issue, ever since I took am semester class on it in high school in 1985 (go figure it's been a long standing conflict). This is one of the hardest topics to really get one's arms around.
The players change.
look at Arafat for example. He has gone the complete gambit multiple times - fanatic, terrortist, diplomat, muderer (maybe?), fundamentalist, moderate
really this issue rolls religion, racism, civil war, prejudice, politics, civil rights, terrorism, and a whole slew of other issues together - into one close knit powederkeg that is so hard to fully understand, let alone solve.
I don't take a side. I see both sides and i empathize with them all.
rest assured I recognize Isreal's right to defend themselves, but I also want in the depths of my heart, that a peaceful palestinian state can be established and maintained.
here is hoping it happens in my lifetime.
ob
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Jarec
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 123
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Posted: 10/18/04 - 01:56 Post subject:
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Blame the British! It's all their fault after all! 8)
Excellent reading btw Vek, thanks.
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 10/18/04 - 03:18 Post subject:
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Israel has more money and more weapons.
That makes them an opposing force.
Palestinians have no money and no weapons.
That makes them terrosists?
f**k you Jewboy, you native country are the biggest scum this Earth has to offer right now. Fess up.
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Thuphir
Luke Warm
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 206
Location: Baton Rouge
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Posted: 10/18/04 - 04:03 Post subject:
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| Megalo wrote: | Israel has more money and more weapons.
That makes them an opposing force.
Palestinians have no money and no weapons.
That makes them terrosists?
f**k you Jewboy, you native country are the biggest scum this Earth has to offer right now. Fess up. |
You are a joke. Not to mention dreadfully ignorant.
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 10/18/04 - 10:34 Post subject:
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I do not know why I bother, but let me give you 1 example Megalo.
1 side specifically targets civilian populations with suicide bombs packed with nails and screws, the object being to terrorize the population by causing as much death and injury as possible. The other side goes after militants only, the people personally responsible for attacks or planning them, and takes great pains to limit collateral damage, and often loses its own soldiers lives because of this.
Who are the terrorists?
Finally Megalo, the United States is my native country. I am a US citizen, 3rd and 4th generation no less. I have visited Israel twice, that is about it. Never sent them any money, no interest in moving there.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 10/18/04 - 10:45 Post subject:
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Saying 1 side is full of terrorists and the other is not is pretty naieve. If your neighbor shot at your wife when she walked out to the mailbox, you'd probably lose any sense of moral responsibility or ethics in 'good, courteous warfare' and just place landmines under his car. Bloodlust doesn't go away because you name your gods differently than your neighbor.
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Qaldyin
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1346
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Posted: 10/18/04 - 10:50 Post subject:
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Damn Magelo, come down to Boca Raton so 50% of our population can beat the shit out of you. I guarantee you that you wouldn't say that shit out in the street.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 10/18/04 - 10:52 Post subject:
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http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=489479
| Quote: | Killing children is no longer a big deal
By Gideon Levy
More than 30 Palestinian children were killed in the first two weeks of Operation Days of Penitence in the Gaza Strip. It's no wonder that many people term such wholesale killing of children "terror." Whereas in the overall count of all the victims of the intifada the ratio is three Palestinians killed for every Israeli killed, when it comes to children the ratio is 5:1. According to B'Tselem, the human rights organization, even before the current operation in Gaza, 557 Palestinian minors (below the age of 18) were killed, compared to 110 Israeli minors.
Palestinian human rights groups speak of even higher numbers: 598 Palestinian children killed (up to age 17), according to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, and 828 killed (up to age 18) according to the Red Crescent. Take note of the ages, too. According to B'Tselem, whose data are updated until about a month ago, 42 of the children who have been killed were 10; 20 were seven; and eight were two years old when they died. The youngest victims are 13 newborn infants who died at checkpoints during birth.
With horrific statistics like this, the question of who is a terrorist should have long since become very burdensome for every Israeli. Yet it is not on the public agenda. Child killers are always the Palestinians, the soldiers always only defend us and themselves, and the hell with the statistics.
The plain fact, which must be stated clearly, is that the blood of hundreds of Palestinian children is on our hands. No tortuous explanation by the IDF Spokesman's Office or by the military correspondents about the dangers posed to soldiers by the children, and no dubious excuse by the public relations people in the Foreign Ministry about how the Palestinians are making use of children will change that fact. An army that kills so many children is an army with no restraints, an army that has lost its moral code.
As MK Ahmed Tibi (Hadash) said, in a particularly emotional speech in the Knesset, it is no longer possible to claim that all these children were killed by mistake. An army doesn't make more than 500 day-to-day mistakes of identity. No, this is not a mistake but the disastrous result of a policy driven mainly by an appallingly light trigger finger and by the dehumanization of the Palestinians. Shooting at everything that moves, including children, has become normative behavior. Even the momentary mini-furor that erupted over the "confirming of the killing" of a 13-year-old girl, Iman Alhamas, did not revolve around the true question. The scandal should have been generated by the very act of the killing itself, not only by what followed.
Iman was not the only one. Mohammed Aaraj was eating a sandwich in front of his house, the last house before the cemetery of the Balata refugee camp, in Nablus, when a soldier shot him to death at fairly close range. He was six at the time of his death. Kristen Saada was in her parents' car, on the way home from a family visit, when soldiers sprayed the car with bullets. She was 12 at the time of her death. The brothers Jamil and Ahmed Abu Aziz were riding their bicycles in full daylight, on their way to buy sweets, when they sustained a direct hit from a shell fired by an Israeli tank crew. Jamil was 13, Ahmed six, at the time of their deaths.
Muatez Amudi and Subah Subah were killed by a soldier who was standing in the village square in Burkin and fired every which way in the wake of stone-throwing. Radir Mohammed from Khan Yunis refugee camp was in a school classroom when soldiers shot her to death. She was 12 when she died. All of them were innocent of wrongdoing and were killed by soldiers acting in our name.
At least in some of these cases it was clear to the soldiers that they were shooting at children, but that didn't stop them. Palestinian children have no refuge: mortal danger lurks for them in their homes, in their schools and on their streets. Not one of the hundreds of children who have been killed deserved to die, and the responsibility for their killing cannot remain anonymous. Thus the message is conveyed to the soldiers: it's no tragedy to kill children and none of you is guilty.
Death is, of course, the most acute danger that confronts a Palestinian child, but it is not the only one. According to data of the Palestinian Ministry of Education, 3,409 schoolchildren have been wounded in the intifada, some of them crippled for life. The childhood of tens of thousands of Palestinian youngsters is being lived from one trauma to the next, from horror to horror. Their homes are demolished, their parents are humiliated in front of their eyes, soldiers storm into their homes brutally in the middle of the night, tanks open fire on their classrooms. And they don't have a psychological service. Have you ever heard of a Palestinian child who is a "victim of anxiety"?
The public indifference that accompanies this pageant of unrelieved suffering makes all Israelis accomplices to a crime. Even parents, who understand what anxiety for a child's fate means, turn away and don't want to hear about the anxiety harbored by the parent on the other side of the fence. Who would have believed that Israeli soldiers would kill hundreds of children and that the majority of Israelis would remain silent? Even the Palestinian children have become part of the dehumanization campaign: killing hundreds of them is no longer a big deal. |
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compusmack
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 6354
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Posted: 10/18/04 - 11:00 Post subject:
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Excellent read vekril.
I have also heard the stories about Israeli hospital treatment equality elsewhere, it's extremely honorable of them.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 10/18/04 - 14:58 Post subject:
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| Megalo wrote: | Israel has more money and more weapons.
That makes them an opposing force.
Palestinians have no money and no weapons.
That makes them terrosists?
f**k you Jewboy, you native country are the biggest scum this Earth has to offer right now. Fess up. |
Israel wouldn't need weapons and money if their neighbors wouldn't keep trying to eliminate them. I am all for Israel crushing its enemies.
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