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gotissues68
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 1866
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 Posted: 04/17/04 - 22:31 Post subject: Targeted Assasinations
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Israel has assasinated another leader of Hamas... do you guys think this is ok to do? Do you think that its worth the risk of bringing together additional people into the conflict, and risking even more lives with revenge bombings?
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Zapper
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1512
Location: Connecticut
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 22:45 Post subject:
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We should ask them to go after Al-qaeda maybe they can kill Osama for us.
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 23:00 Post subject:
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All I can say is....NEXT!!!
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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 23:17 Post subject:
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I'm not feeling too sympathetic to any hamas leader. You shouldn't be able to assassinate a leader though. If you have a problem then arrest their ass and try them under the law.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 23:29 Post subject:
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| lauren000 wrote: | | I'm not feeling too sympathetic to any hamas leader. You shouldn't be able to assassinate a leader though. If you have a problem then arrest their ass and try them under the law. |
they don't fall under your concept of any law you think you're referring to
hamas is not a country, therefore, the term assasination is more towards the "violent killing of a public figure" side of things, regarding the laws the US has when sponsoring assassinations. try to find one of those f*****s to bring to court..if it was that easy, osama and the rest would be in jail now, wouldn't they? Once again, perhaps you should pay attention in school so you can form complete sentences and rational thoughts, with facts and not the half truthes and bent arguements to fit your vision of life
and good for Isreal, another bad guy is dead
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 23:30 Post subject:
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Launching a few missiles is a lot easier and cheaper though.
Interesting reaction from the U.S. State Dept. actually. "We are considering the situation very carefully."
Israel is just acting on it's own on all of these targeted strikes; whether it will help or hurt the idea of being able to bring about a lasting peace will be seen.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 23:36 Post subject:
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Full story can be found here: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/17/rantisi.reaction/index.html
Anger at killing of Hamas leader
Britain, Egypt condemn strike; White House 'concerned'
Saturday, April 17, 2004 Posted: 10:10 PM EDT (0210 GMT)
Thousands demonstrate in Gaza after Abdel Aziz Rantisi's killing.
Hamas leader killed in Israeli airstrike
Early footage and reports of the attack against Rantisi.
(CNN) -- International condemnation followed Israel's killing of Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi in Gaza City.
Israel, however, defended the strike as a protective move, and the U.S. State Department said it was "considering the situation."
An Israeli helicopter launched the strike on Rantisi's car, killing him and two others -- one of them a bodyguard. Rantisi was taken to a hospital, where he died shortly afterward.
Rantisi was appointed the leader of Hamas in Gaza last month after Israel killed the group's founder and spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin.
The attack created a loud explosion in Gaza City, and half of the city lost electricity. Ten other people were injured, Palestinian medical sources said.
Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Gideon Meier said: "We tried to do (this) a few months ago. At that time, he managed to run away. This time we got him," Meier said.
An Israeli Foreign Ministry official confirmed that the Israel Defense Forces launched a targeted attack on Rantisi.
As news of the killing swept through the territory, thousands of Hamas activists spilled into the streets.
In an exclusive interview with CNN, one of Rantisi's sons, Mohammed, said he had expected his father's death.
"In jihad...there are usually two outcomes, either martyrdom or victory," Mohammed Rantisi said. "In this case, he got martyrdom.
"This was not unexpected from the Jews, because they have been trying for a while to carry out such an assassination," he said. "They target all the Palestinians, so of course they would single out our leaders ... The leaders are always targets of such operations."
Hamas is a Palestinian Islamic fundamentalist organization whose military wing has admitted responsibility for terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians. The United States and Israel consider it a terrorist group.
Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat said the killing demonstrated the need for Palestinians to defend themselves against Israel. He condemned "the crime of the assassination of Rantisi" and called for international protection for Palestinians.
Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashwari said, "Predictably the Palestinians are extremely angry. They are calling out for revenge. There is a sense that Israel is not only pursuing a policy of assassination and lawlessness, but it is doing so with the full blessings of collusion of the U.S."
Egypt and Great Britain both criticized the attack on Rantisi, describing it as criminal and counterproductive to the peace process.
Washington urged restraint from all sides after the killing of Abdel Aziz Rantisi.
Reuters reported that Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Maher issued a statement reading: "Egypt strongly condemns the new crime Israel has committed. This assassination raises questions about the reality of [Israel's] aims and confirms that it exploits opportunities to try to deceive the world, kill off the chances for peace [and] push the region to the edge of the abyss."
British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw condemned the missile strike.
"The British government has made it repeatedly clear that so-called targeted assassinations of this kind are unlawful, unjustified and counterproductive."
But the United States' reaction was a measured one.
A senior State Department official said: "We are considering the situation very carefully. Certainly, we did not give Israel any kind of green light, and we did not have any kind of advance knowledge."
The White House issued a statement: "As we have repeatedly made clear, Israel has the right to defend itself from terrorist attacks.
"Hamas is a terrorist organization that attacks civilians, and that claimed responsibility for the suicide attack today that killed one and injured other Israeli guards at the Erez crossing. The United States is gravely concerned for regional peace and stability. The United States strongly urges Israel to consider carefully the consequences of its actions, and we again urge all parties to exercise maximum restraint at this time."
Israeli officials said the killing was justified and alleged that Rantisi had planned the slaying of hundreds of Israeli civilians in terror attacks. Those actions, they said, made him a legitimate target. They also said it was not a quid pro quo move in response to a Palestinian suicide bombing earlier in the day at Erez.
"We are not in the business of retaliation," Meier said. "We are in the business of protecting the Israeli people from the vicious terror which comes out from Hamas and Islamic Jihad. we are here to protect our people."
Dore Gold, one of Sharon's advisers, said, "For the last decade, Hamas and Mr. Rantisi have been behind a spate of suicide bombings in the heart of Israeli cities. ...Therefore Israel adopts these self-defense operations in order to protect our civilians."
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Tura
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 4865
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 23:48 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | and good for Isreal, another bad guy is dead |
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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 23:59 Post subject:
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| Paco wrote: | | lauren000 wrote: | | I'm not feeling too sympathetic to any hamas leader. You shouldn't be able to assassinate a leader though. If you have a problem then arrest their ass and try them under the law. |
they don't fall under your concept of any law you think you're referring to
hamas is not a country, therefore, the term assasination is more towards the "violent killing of a public figure" side of things, regarding the laws the US has when sponsoring assassinations. try to find one of those f*****s to bring to court..if it was that easy, osama and the rest would be in jail now, wouldn't they? Once again, perhaps you should pay attention in school so you can form complete sentences and rational thoughts, with facts and not the half truthes and bent arguements to fit your vision of life
and good for Isreal, another bad guy is dead |
no the point is I get it. And you don't. You don't just change the rules because you don't like the game. If you don't like the fight then end the fight, don't fight dirty. Again you just don't get it.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 00:11 Post subject:
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what part of "Isreal is it's own country and has it's own laws" don't you get?
what part of "it's not in America" don't you get?
You're applying American laws to another country...so, perhaps you should reconsider the stupidity of your post a bit more, eh?
That wasn't just some thug running up and shooting that guy. It was a military action performed on behalf of a country's government. That's pretty much saying that their laws are a bit different, wouldn't you think?
Do you get it now?
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Pags
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3260
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 00:40 Post subject:
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| lauren000 wrote: | | Paco wrote: | | lauren000 wrote: | | I'm not feeling too sympathetic to any hamas leader. You shouldn't be able to assassinate a leader though. If you have a problem then arrest their ass and try them under the law. |
they don't fall under your concept of any law you think you're referring to
hamas is not a country, therefore, the term assasination is more towards the "violent killing of a public figure" side of things, regarding the laws the US has when sponsoring assassinations. try to find one of those f*****s to bring to court..if it was that easy, osama and the rest would be in jail now, wouldn't they? Once again, perhaps you should pay attention in school so you can form complete sentences and rational thoughts, with facts and not the half truthes and bent arguements to fit your vision of life
and good for Isreal, another bad guy is dead |
no the point is I get it. And you don't. You don't just change the rules because you don't like the game. If you don't like the fight then end the fight, don't fight dirty. Again you just don't get it. |
You truely are clueless.
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Faerdal
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 954
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 12:40 Post subject:
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| Paco wrote: |
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YES!
i like that one =)
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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 13:15 Post subject:
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| Paco wrote: | what part of "Isreal is it's own country and has it's own laws" don't you get?
what part of "it's not in America" don't you get?
You're applying American laws to another country...so, perhaps you should reconsider the stupidity of your post a bit more, eh?
That wasn't just some thug running up and shooting that guy. It was a military action performed on behalf of a country's government. That's pretty much saying that their laws are a bit different, wouldn't you think?
Do you get it now?
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international law. If you assassinate leaders then your leaders are open game.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 13:22 Post subject:
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I'm all for assassinating terrorists.
So, it's ok for terrorists to assassinate people, but when their own leaders get assassinated they cry foul? What's wrong, they can dish it but they can't take it? What a joke.
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euphonious
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 893
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 13:24 Post subject:
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| Silvermouse wrote: | I'm all for assassinating terrorists.
So, it's ok for terrorists to assassinate people, but when their own leaders get assassinated they cry foul? What's wrong, they can dish it but they can't take it? What a joke. |
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 13:32 Post subject:
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I think it's pretty amazing that you would accuse someone of "playing dirty" against Hamas. When you're dealing with a group whose primary tactic is running people strapped with explosives into large groups of civilians the words "playing dirty" just seem silly.
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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 13:45 Post subject:
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| Luturb wrote: | | I think it's pretty amazing that you would accuse someone of "playing dirty" against Hamas. When you're dealing with a group whose primary tactic is running people strapped with explosives into large groups of civilians the words "playing dirty" just seem silly. |
maybe I chose the wrong words, but the point is israeli leaders are going to become assassination targets. The United States has a no assassination policy, because we know what it leads to. One would hope that Israel wouldn't be so stupid as to think that they can assassinate leaders and be immune.
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merdocc
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2038
Location: Pasadena Ca
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 14:03 Post subject:
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I'm sure if a group inside the U.S. were blowing up themselves at your local ralphs killing 20 people a month minimum it would change our view on assasination too.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 14:08 Post subject:
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The United States' assassination policy isn't what you think, either. We may launch rockets at 'targets of opportunity' under the guise of war, but it's assassination just the same.
Despised public officials and leaders are always targets, doesn't matter if they've ordered any assassinations lately.
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 17:34 Post subject:
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Hamas leaders are not political leaders in the sense of international law that you are referring to Lauren. They are more akin to drug kingpins, the heads of major crime syndicates. They are not elected, and they oversee organizations whose primary purpose, openly and publicly stated by them, is to destroy Israel by means of terrorism. They state on the record their involvement in, and support for, numerous criminal activities such as the murder of innocent civilians.
That is not a "leader or head of state" in any sense of the word.
Assassinating Arafat, no matter how much of a terrorist he is, would be a lot closer to your definitions, because he is the elected leader (albeit by corrupt elections).
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 17:47 Post subject:
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| lauren000 wrote: | | international law. If you assassinate leaders then your leaders are open game. |
International law? I better call my lawyer!
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Xion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2117
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 18:02 Post subject:
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| lauren000 wrote: | | Paco wrote: | what part of "Isreal is it's own country and has it's own laws" don't you get?
what part of "it's not in America" don't you get?
You're applying American laws to another country...so, perhaps you should reconsider the stupidity of your post a bit more, eh?
That wasn't just some thug running up and shooting that guy. It was a military action performed on behalf of a country's government. That's pretty much saying that their laws are a bit different, wouldn't you think?
Do you get it now?
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international law. If you assassinate leaders then your leaders are open game.
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Hamas isn't a country, and the palestinians don't have their own country. They're part of Israel, technically. Hamas is a m***********g terrorist organization. Killing its leader is the same as us dropping a bomb on Osama.
For f***s sake, do the world a favor and kill yourself.
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Xion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2117
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 18:06 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: | | lauren000 wrote: | | international law. If you assassinate leaders then your leaders are open game. |
International law? I better call my lawyer! |
That's George W.'s best quote ever, and some of the greatest word's ever uttered by a President of the United States.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 18:10 Post subject:
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You see Lawrence, how everyone knows how it works, except for you. Take a hint, that you are indeed wrong in your conclusions.
Kindly shut the f**k up now. You know naught for what you speak of. Your track record is like 0-1,000. That's a 0.00 average.
Even if you post shit, for the sake of seeing your own text, find some other forum to post in if that's the case.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 20:43 Post subject: Re: Targeted Assasinations
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| gotissues68 wrote: | | Israel has assasinated another leader of Hamas... do you guys think this is ok to do? Do you think that its worth the risk of bringing together additional people into the conflict, and risking even more lives with revenge bombings? |
Personally, I think Israel is well within their rights to go after the leaders of these groups. Aside from the temporary confusion that these killings cause within the group, Israel has visibly demonstrated it's ability to go after any terrorist. The average terrorist may be willing to blow himself up in the name of Allah but the leaders are in the business of pursuing power, not in dying for a cause.
Let them cower in their holes for fear of Israeli missiles. They bring it on themselves.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 23:20 Post subject:
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Kill the leaders, kill the connections. Kill the connections, kill the cash flow. Kill the cash flow, stymie the terrorism.
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compusmack
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 6354
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Posted: 04/19/04 - 13:16 Post subject:
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It is perfectly acceptable to kill these terrorist leaders when they go around targeting civilians with suicide bombers.
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Banzai
Guest
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Posted: 04/19/04 - 13:40 Post subject:
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live by the sword die by the sword
they chose this path
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 04/19/04 - 13:44 Post subject:
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| Banzai wrote: | live by the sword die by the sword
they chose this path |
Agreed. One can only hope that Sharon will die by the sword as soon as possible.
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Banzai
Guest
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Posted: 04/19/04 - 14:16 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | | Banzai wrote: | live by the sword die by the sword
they chose this path |
Agreed. One can only hope that Sharon will die by the sword as soon as possible. |
Though his actions are reactionary they are his actions and I would not be surprised if plans have not been laid for his death several times over.
He is counting on the technological buffer to keep him safe but there will be a time when his guard is not as sharp as it is now.
Who knows, Arafat looked down the barrel of a gun and lived to tell about it. Perhaps there is a level of extreme that makes your ideas too powerful to snuff for fear your followers will make a martyr out of you.
I think that's one of the reasons this game is a delicate one.
A savage will torment you for a lifetime; a martyr can haunt you for generations.
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