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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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 Posted: 10/12/04 - 10:41 Post subject:
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I can't tell if this makes you feel proud, or if you're starting to feel ashamed.
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khrath
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8750
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 10:42 Post subject:
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lol
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 11:52 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | | I can't tell if this makes you feel proud, or if you're starting to feel ashamed. |
Ashamed or proud? Nope. Certain things are necessary in wartime. You don't think the US tortured people in WW2? Vietnam? Korea? You bet your ass they did.
What the f**k don't you get about human society? People are in general are nice, but there are those who have to be dealt with a little differently than a slap on the wrist and making them wear an orange jumpsuit.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 12:25 Post subject:
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Torture doesn't work. There was a story a few days ago about the three British prisoners release from Gitmo a few months ago. The US told the British authorities that they had all confessed to attending Al Queda training camps together. The prisoners stated that they'd confessed under torture, and the British intelligence agencies subsequently verified that none of the three had even left Britain during the year they'd supposedly been in training camps in Afghanistan.
The whole thing is a huge farce, except to the people who are being tortured.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 12:33 Post subject:
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The same British Intelligence agency that said Saddam Hussein definitely had WMD?
Have links? I don't recall seeing anything like this. How did they end up in Gitmo if they weren't handed over by the Brits (if they never left the country) or weren't caught in Afghanistan?
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Conqueso
Luke Warm
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 388
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 12:39 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Certain things are necessary in wartime. |
Got to love Zell Miller  : Iwo Jima, if covered by media today
Last edited by Conqueso on 10/12/04 - 12:43; edited 1 time in total
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 12:43 Post subject:
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I think he captured the current out of reality paranoia pretty good there.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 13:05 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | The same British Intelligence agency that said Saddam Hussein definitely had WMD?
Have links? I don't recall seeing anything like this. How did they end up in Gitmo if they weren't handed over by the Brits (if they never left the country) or weren't caught in Afghanistan? |
I'll look; I'm not sure where I read it. They were definitely captured in Afghanistan, it's just that they confessed under torture to things that were later proved false (attending training camps in 2000, or whatever the year was).
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 14:27 Post subject:
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Torture does not work. Read "Waiting for the Barbarians" by Coetzee.
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Manuva
Banned
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2536
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 14:57 Post subject:
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What's the big deal?
Terrorists aren't covered by the Geneva Convention.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 14:59 Post subject:
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| Silvermouse wrote: | | Torture does not work. Read "Waiting for the Barbarians" by Coetzee. |
You'll never know that. Never.
If you did, you'd never post here.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 15:06 Post subject:
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| Manuva wrote: | What's the big deal?
Terrorists aren't covered by the Geneva Convention. |
exactly
and like I said to a buddy who pointed out this story to me, f**k those liberals with "feelings" who do nothing but slander the country they enjoy freedom in
That article that Conqueso posted was awesome. It's exactly right. War is hell. In time, people will forget all the crying from the liberals and 50 years from now, people will look back, and this will have been a good thing. Too bad nobody can remember their history.
Stupid f***s like Jack and Wily will be forgotten, and folks like Frax, Kbarr, and myself will just have that little "I told you so" smile for them down the road.
It's as if the liberals just have to point out how wrong something is, screaming at the top of their lungs, but they don't do anything to change it, because they know that it must be done. Who f*****g cares what they think really. I don't give a f**k, that's for sure. But I tell you what, I'll die many years down the line from now, and I'll know I made a difference. I didn't turn my back on my country. I am proud to be American. I am proud to help those in need, who need help. I won. And nobody, not any piece of shit liberal, can take that from me.
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SkilledShaman
Luke Warm
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 159
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 15:08 Post subject:
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How many American citizens were killed in past wars. Not military, but citizens hired and killed while on job...
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Guest
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 19:38 Post subject:
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| Paco wrote: | | Manuva wrote: | What's the big deal?
Terrorists aren't covered by the Geneva Convention. |
exactly
and like I said to a buddy who pointed out this story to me, f**k those liberals with "feelings" who do nothing but slander the country they enjoy freedom in
That article that Conqueso posted was awesome. It's exactly right. War is hell. In time, people will forget all the crying from the liberals and 50 years from now, people will look back, and this will have been a good thing. Too bad nobody can remember their history.
Stupid f***s like Jack and Wily will be forgotten, and folks like Frax, Kbarr, and myself will just have that little "I told you so" smile for them down the road.
It's as if the liberals just have to point out how wrong something is, screaming at the top of their lungs, but they don't do anything to change it, because they know that it must be done. Who f*****g cares what they think really. I don't give a f**k, that's for sure. But I tell you what, I'll die many years down the line from now, and I'll know I made a difference. I didn't turn my back on my country. I am proud to be American. I am proud to help those in need, who need help. I won. And nobody, not any piece of shit liberal, can take that from me. |
(responding to the whole turn your back on the US drivel here)
That little speech would make a little more sense if Iraq actually had any connection to the 911 attacks
But it didnt...thats the official word on the matter.
Bush, your man took his eye off the ball and the Alqueda had leeway to spread like cancer in the desert.
Bush is a fool Paco.
You , Paco ...are a fool.
And f**k you son, Im american and goddam proud of it.
Diffrence between you and me I respect your right to think diffrently, you obviously hate a democracy and would prefer Dubya as your emperor.
Youre need a Monarchy Paco, you obviously dont get American Democracy.
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Nictathan
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5531
Location: here... where I am... not with you
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 19:49 Post subject:
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This was cool
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Guest
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 19:55 Post subject:
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If Bush were president in 1942 Japanese would sneak attack us in Pearl Harbor and Bush, whose father was insulted by the Chinese, would nuke Hong Kong citing Sneak attacks of mass destruction were imminent.
Later when asked why he would attack Chine when Japan was our enemy he would shake his head and declare "Its hard keeping America safe...its hard!"
Years later his ancesters would buy Realdoll d**k Cheney on the "Internets"
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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 20:07 Post subject:
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| Jack Crow wrote: | If Bush were president in 1942 Japanese would sneak attack us in Pearl Harbor and Bush, whose father was insulted by the Chinese, would nuke Hong Kong citing Sneak attacks of mass destruction were imminent.
Later when asked why he would attack Chine when Japan was our enemy he would shake his head and declare "Its hard keeping America safe...its hard!"
Years later his ancesters would buy Realdoll d**k Cheney on the "Internets" |
d*****s. Japan is a country with it's own organized military and government. Al Qaeda is a terrorist group and is not a aligned with any single country nor is it considered an organized military of a country.
As for one of your other comments:
| Quote: | | Bush, your man took his eye off the ball and the Alqueda had leeway to spread like cancer in the desert |
How did Bush take his eye off Al Qaeda? And btw "Alqueda" isn't the correct spelling.
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 20:11 Post subject:
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| Scrabler wrote: | | Jack Crow wrote: | If Bush were president in 1942 Japanese would sneak attack us in Pearl Harbor and Bush, whose father was insulted by the Chinese, would nuke Hong Kong citing Sneak attacks of mass destruction were imminent.
Later when asked why he would attack Chine when Japan was our enemy he would shake his head and declare "Its hard keeping America safe...its hard!"
Years later his ancesters would buy Realdoll d**k Cheney on the "Internets" |
d*****s. Japana is a country with it's own organized military and government. Al Qaeda is a terrorist group and is not a aligned with any single country nor is it considered an organized military of a country.
As for one of your other comments:
| Quote: | | Bush, your man took his eye off the ball and the Alqueda had leeway to spread like cancer in the desert |
How did Bush take his eye off Al Qaeda? And btw "Alqueda" isn't the correct spelling. |
Well, neither is "Japana", now is it?
-Nah-
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Guest
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 20:14 Post subject:
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When we occupied Iraq, we focused our main attentions and resources there , and they were not in a position to put out their best foot in the pursuit of Bin Laden and the alqueda.
Meanwhile they fester in safety while we ore totally preoccupied in the occupation.
We coulda put the heat on em...ALOT of heat.
Remember were spending about what...200 billion in Iraq?
Thats an inferno of heat, plus we have world support and sympathy still...forging alliances and diplomatic connections would have been alot easier nowdays... plus Bush wouldnt look half as bad as he does today, he would look like a man who was able to think before reacting.
JFK owned Bush in standing down a crisis hands down.
And he didnt have 1/2 the resources
then once Bin laden is safely shut down, if Saddam was still looking like a threat, he could have been dealt with.
Which by the way reports show that Saddam was losing in Military power , in effect he was a paper tiger.
Last edited by Guest on 10/12/04 - 20:31; edited 1 time in total
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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 20:28 Post subject:
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| Nahualli wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | | Jack Crow wrote: | If Bush were president in 1942 Japanese would sneak attack us in Pearl Harbor and Bush, whose father was insulted by the Chinese, would nuke Hong Kong citing Sneak attacks of mass destruction were imminent.
Later when asked why he would attack Chine when Japan was our enemy he would shake his head and declare "Its hard keeping America safe...its hard!"
Years later his ancesters would buy Realdoll d**k Cheney on the "Internets" |
d*****s. Japana is a country with it's own organized military and government. Al Qaeda is a terrorist group and is not a aligned with any single country nor is it considered an organized military of a country.
As for one of your other comments:
| Quote: | | Bush, your man took his eye off the ball and the Alqueda had leeway to spread like cancer in the desert |
How did Bush take his eye off Al Qaeda? And btw "Alqueda" isn't the correct spelling. |
Well, neither is "Japana", now is it?
-Nah- |
And unlike Jackshit I caught my typo and corrected it..he just can't spell Al Qaeda.
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Guest
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 20:44 Post subject:
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lollercakes =P
Im going out for some fun...
Tommorow we can continue the never ending struggle =P
Last edited by Guest on 10/12/04 - 20:48; edited 2 times in total
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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 20:45 Post subject:
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| Jack Crow wrote: | When we occupied Iraq, we focused our main attentions and resources there , and they were not in a position to put out their best foot in the pursuit of Bin Laden and the alqueda.
Meanwhile they fester in safety while we ore totally preoccupied in the occupation. |
Lol nice one. You obviously don't know how we work in Afghanistan(main Al Qaeda/Taliban territory). We use small groups of SF and Recon to direct air strikes. They also work with the local resistance forces who know the people and the terrain as well as many of the Al Qaeda locations. The war in Iraq has done nothing to harm our presence or firepower in Afghanistan.
You should watch some of the shows or read the writeups on operations over there. It's very common to have bombers flying over Afghanistan 24/7 during the assaults on each group of Al Qaeda.
Like one resistance general told a SF operative after asked why he covered the soldier with his body during a surprise Al Qaeda attack "If I die another will take my place; if you die the bombs will stop dropping on the Taliban."
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Conqueso
Luke Warm
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 388
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Posted: 10/12/04 - 23:48 Post subject:
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Bin Laden is just one piece of the puzzle. Scrabler touched on some of the things that occurred in Tora Bora. There were special forces there in addition to the Afghan's that the special forces had trained. But, that is for another time.
I often hear about more alliances should be formed etc. I thought it would be apparent by now that the countries Kerry wanted to approach have said, "No." They all had a vested interest to keep Sadam or his family in power. What reasons would these countries (France, Germany, China, Russia, etc) have to remove Sadam from power or to physically force Sadam to adhere to the UN sanctions? The status quo was what the UN and these countries wanted to maintain. There were no reasons for these countries to have Sadam removed. There are certainly not many reasons for them to help now, unless it is economic.
Kerry's approach reminds me of Carter's policies. Carter relied heavily on political dialogue. He used it for the Camp David Accords and the Iran hostage situation (He tried to do an evac but that failed.) Clinton followed political dialogue to some extent but used military force in places such as Kosovo and Somalia. We saw the effectiveness of the UN in both of these places.  Political dialogue worked well when dealing with the Soviet Union. Basically, neither the US or the USSR wanted mutual annihilation. Clinton tried to follow the same policy and learned that it didnt work in Kosovo and failed miserably in Somalia. Clinton had to rely on force to get Kosovo to work and to get our troops out of Somalia. The difference that Clinton encountered, especially with Somalia, was due to a perception of the US by the enemy. The perception is a lot different than the one that drove US policy for the Cold War years. I see Kerry following the ideology that was used during the Cold War years. I also see Kerry still living in the 1970's. He is anti-war no matter how he tries to spin it. It makes for a very dangerous combination. The situation that we are now facing demands a change in US foreign policy. We can not rely heavily on political dialogue, which Kerry's policy is full of, like we did during the Cold War.
Bush's policies dealing with terrorism remind me of what I have read about Winston Churchhill during WWII and President Woodrow Wilson during WWI. Before WWI, there was a split in the country regarding isolationism and going to war. During WWI, the Germans did not think the US would get involved due to its isolationist policy. During WWII, the Japanese thought the US would be taken out of the war with one big strike on its Pacific fleet. Both were wrong. With the terrorists, they thought that the US would not respond:
| Quote: | | In a 1998 interview, Osama bin Laden told ABC News reporter John Miller: "We have seen in the last decade the decline of the American government and the weakness of the American soldier who is ready to wage Cold Wars and unprepared to fight long wars. This was proven in Beirut when the Marines fled after two explosions. It also proves they can run in less than 24 hours, and this was also repeated in Somalia. We are ready for all occasions. We rely on Allah." |
We are seeing a split in the US due to policies that have gone on for the last 50-60 years during the Cold War. As what was encountered during WWI with Isolationism, the policies of the Cold War and Kerry will not work with the war on terrorism. We had already seen it happen during the Clinton administration: How the Left Undermined America's Security Before 9/11 - Part I, Part II
Why are different policies needed? The article above goes into a lot of detail. We are dealing with a doctrine different from the facism seen during WWII and communism during the Cold War. I think it can be summarized by the following:
| Quote: | | Like Islamic radicalism, the totalitarian doctrines of communism and fascism are fundamentalist creeds. "The fundamentalist does not believe [his] ideas have any limits or boundaries,… [therefore] the goals of fundamentalist terror are not to eliminate injustice but to eliminate opposition." That is why the humanitarian nature of America’s mission to Mogadishu made no difference to America’s al-Qaeda foe. The terrorists’ goal was not to alleviate hunger. It was to eliminate America. It was to defeat "The Great Satan." |
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 10/13/04 - 00:16 Post subject:
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if i was a partisan idiot - like some right wingers i've seen posting here i would say
"Bush let Osama go"!!!!
but instead I will just say that I believe he erroneously redirect US forces to Iraq, when he should have been doing more to get the rest of al queda.
this actually still rings true (to me) today.
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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 10/13/04 - 00:18 Post subject:
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| Obmar wrote: | if i was a partisan idiot - like some right wingers i've seen posting here i would say
"Bush let Osama go"!!!!
but instead I will just say that I believe he erroneously redirect US forces to Iraq, when he should have been doing more to get the rest of al queda.
this actually still rings true (to me) today. |
You're wrong. Sorry.
We don't need many people in Afghanistan to get the job done...and that is the only other place we are really fighting in.
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 10/13/04 - 00:30 Post subject:
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which is why we finished the job there right?
good justification lol
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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 10/13/04 - 00:35 Post subject:
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| Obmar wrote: | which is why we finished the job there right?
good justification lol |
We won't be "finished" there until every one of those bastards are dead.
The justification is that large forces in Afghanistan aren't effective. Small SF/Recon teams working with the local fighters and using laser guided bomb runs are. The terrain is way too rough for anything besides foot/horse travel and the bands of Al Qaeda/Taliban aren't large enough to require a large number of legs.
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Mugaaz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3576
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Posted: 10/13/04 - 02:46 Post subject: Re: Sucks to be a Ghost Detainee I bet :D
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| Frax wrote: | | http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/11/disappeared.suspects.ap/index.html |
This shit is stupid. I'm not arguing that it's not neccessary. I'm arguing that it's stupid. There are rules like the Geneva convention among other things to govern certain aspects of humanity that are horrible, but to prevent them from ruining things for all time. If we are going to treat terorrists this way, if it's correct to do so ( I don't pretend I know either way what is the best coure of action ) then it should be a clearly written policy and spelled out. Right now all the articles that are written about it compare it to Nazi shit. And it is. If this is how we are going to deal with terrorists let's stop doing this behind closed doors shit. Let's make it something that everyone knows this is how it's going to be and something that no one is ashamed of. Right now shit like this and the overzealous Patriot Act have paranoid people quivering in thier own shit. And honestly this is the time when paranoid people are actually right. We are doing this in a stupid way.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/13/04 - 07:58 Post subject:
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| Jack Crow wrote: | | Paco wrote: | | Manuva wrote: | What's the big deal?
Terrorists aren't covered by the Geneva Convention. |
exactly
and like I said to a buddy who pointed out this story to me, f**k those liberals with "feelings" who do nothing but slander the country they enjoy freedom in
That article that Conqueso posted was awesome. It's exactly right. War is hell. In time, people will forget all the crying from the liberals and 50 years from now, people will look back, and this will have been a good thing. Too bad nobody can remember their history.
Stupid f***s like Jack and Wily will be forgotten, and folks like Frax, Kbarr, and myself will just have that little "I told you so" smile for them down the road.
It's as if the liberals just have to point out how wrong something is, screaming at the top of their lungs, but they don't do anything to change it, because they know that it must be done. Who f*****g cares what they think really. I don't give a f**k, that's for sure. But I tell you what, I'll die many years down the line from now, and I'll know I made a difference. I didn't turn my back on my country. I am proud to be American. I am proud to help those in need, who need help. I won. And nobody, not any piece of shit liberal, can take that from me. |
(responding to the whole turn your back on the US drivel here)
That little speech would make a little more sense if Iraq actually had any connection to the 911 attacks
But it didnt...thats the official word on the matter.
Bush, your man took his eye off the ball and the Alqueda had leeway to spread like cancer in the desert.
Bush is a fool Paco.
You , Paco ...are a fool.
And f**k you son, Im american and goddam proud of it.
Diffrence between you and me I respect your right to think diffrently, you obviously hate a democracy and would prefer Dubya as your emperor.
Youre need a Monarchy Paco, you obviously dont get American Democracy. |
So every terrorist needs to be connected to 9/11 now? What a f*****g stupid train of thought.
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