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Laresa
Luke Warm
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 110
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 Posted: 07/29/04 - 20:06 Post subject:
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She should go to jail for that shit or at the very least dismissed.
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Jakanden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 5334
Location: Fuck if I know - I am always lost
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Posted: 07/29/04 - 20:43 Post subject:
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 07/29/04 - 20:46 Post subject:
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"Who would have won if Al Gore had gotten manual counts he requested in four counties? Answer: George W. Bush."
"Who would have won if the U.S. Supreme Court had not stopped the hand recount of undervotes, which are ballots that registered no machine-readable vote for president? Answer: Bush, under three of four standards."
"Who would have won if all disputed ballots — including those rejected by machines because they had more than one vote for president — had been recounted by hand? Answer: Bush, under the two most widely used standards; Gore, under the two least used."
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Metzger
Luke Warm
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 193
Location: Fear and Loathing
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Posted: 07/29/04 - 20:55 Post subject:
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Don't stop at cutting and pasting some pat answer about a past presidential election, or a cutsy little gif.
Respond to the actual message of the video. No way im going to find out if its true or not, but the whiplash-instant defensives are annoying.
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 07/29/04 - 20:56 Post subject:
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regardless how much Gore lost by.. is what this Katherine Harris person did, true?
-Nah-
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Jakanden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 5334
Location: Fuck if I know - I am always lost
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Posted: 07/29/04 - 20:59 Post subject:
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| Metzger wrote: | Don't stop at cutting and pasting some pat answer about a past presidential election, or a cutsy little gif.
Respond to the actual message of the video. No way im going to find out if its true or not, but the whiplash-instant defensives are annoying. |
Thats what makes Realpoor Realpoor - I can post a f*****g "cutesy gif" if I want to so f**k off
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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euphonious
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 893
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Posted: 07/29/04 - 20:59 Post subject:
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*epileptic fits*
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 07/29/04 - 22:31 Post subject:
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| euphonious wrote: | | *epileptic fits* |
*throws you into the tub with some Tide and the dirty laundry*
-Nah-
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 05:20 Post subject:
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Since no one else has asked the completely obvious questions, I'll do it.
1 - Let's assume that the video has all of it's facts correct, why would this have any effect on an election? The video tries to imply that all 8700 votes would have gone to Gore and he would have won. Hmmm...correct me if I'm wrong but if 51% of the voters voted for Bush and 8700 voters were disqualified (apparently totally at random) wouldn't that mean that 51% of those lost votes would have gone to Bush? That would result in no change in the election results...hmmm...
2 - Basically the same as above except it addresses her own election to Congress. I guess the implication is she was somehow rewarded by Bush by being given a seat in Congress. Again, correct me if I'm wrong but Congresswoman is an elected position so unless she purposefully disqualified people that would not vote her AND she won by a smaller margin than the number of people disqualified, she was justly elected to her position. Strangely enough, the video makes no mention of her doing that and I assume they would if they had any shred of evidence that would suggest she did so.
I'm amazed at what passes for credible evidence these days. Quite frankly, I'd be embarassed if I posted something like as anything other than a joke. I'd be even more embarassed if I actually took anything in the video seriously. Don't even try to argue the point with me. The most telling point against this video is the incredible lack of attention it has gotten. There is a small but unbelievably vocal portion of this country that insists on seeing George Bush and all Republicans as Satan and his unholy host. If there was even the tiniest shred of truth in this video, they would be waving it around as if it was the Holy Bible like they already do with Fahrenheit 9/11. Strangely enough, even they won't touch this video.
But hey look, it's been posted on Realpoor...TWICE!
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ATM Banana
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 8575
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 06:08 Post subject:
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this video is a joke, and those numbers are far from bs.
there was influence in florida, lots.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/newsnight/palast.ram
this may not be as in your face but have a few credible sources, not many though.
Regardless of how stupid this guy sounds and how forced hsi rhetoric sounds it does have a crucial source the man who served as the commisoner at the time.
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ATM Banana
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 8575
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Laresa
Luke Warm
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 110
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 06:27 Post subject:
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It's actually still a big deal in Florida. Former felons are fighting to have their voting rights restored, which should be restored when they leave prison. Gov Bush still hasnt done this. This is something that could affect the fall election, seeing as Florida is considered a key state.
As for Katherine Harris, she is now a congresswoman. Go figure.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 07:17 Post subject:
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Okay...I admit I didn't read all of that article. I quit reading about the time he veered off into confusing his opinion with facts. I'm not going to do a point-by-point analysis of this since I can't add anything new that hasn't been covered many times in the past 4 years.
I will point out that no one seriously puts this argument forward anymore. I see a lot of conspiracy theories but this entire situation was investigated already and the findings did not support this view of the situation.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 07:22 Post subject:
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| Laresa wrote: | It's actually still a big deal in Florida. Former felons are fighting to have their voting rights restored, which should be restored when they leave prison. Gov Bush still hasnt done this. This is something that could affect the fall election, seeing as Florida is considered a key state.
As for Katherine Harris, she is now a congresswoman. Go figure. |
And this really has nothing to do with anything I posted.
I didn't make any statements about the legality of denying voting rights to ex-cons. I asked specifically how that many people chosen apparently at random would affect the election. A basic knowledge of statistics might be useful to you to answer that question.
And yes, she is a Congresswoman now..elected by Florida. I still fail to see the link unless both of the previous circumstances I mentioned are true. Since no one has claimed they are, I will assume they are false since they would have made a perfect supporting argument.
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 10:08 Post subject:
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I think the inference is that the republican party got behind this woman to help her get elected. She is "their man" so to speak. Doesnt mean anything illegal was done to get her elected, but I guess they are linking what they consider to be her illegal activities regarding voter registration with a resulting endorsement from the republican party.
or some such whatever...
I dunno, I've decided my brain hurts from all of this political crap. In a perfect world, factual ideas would be laid out. people would study them and vote for whatever their own brand of preference would dictate and everyone would just STFU and get on with life.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 11:32 Post subject:
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| Nahualli wrote: | regardless how much Gore lost by.. is what this Katherine Harris person did, true?
-Jesus!- |
More than a catchy flash movie, I'd like to see some actual proof. I have seen so much fluff about a rigged florida election, etc.. Why hasn't anyone come forward and taken it to the congress or supreme court for further investigation? Why haven't people filed lawsuits against her if they lost their right to vote? Conspiracy theory or fact? I haven't seen any factual evidence produced by anyone about all this, just some vague references in news articles.
My guess would be that even if there were 55,000 disenfranchised voters, how many of them would have even voted? Historical trends are anywhere from 40-55% of eligible (not registered voters which is a lower figure) voters actually vote.
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Guest
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 12:12 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | regardless how much Gore lost by.. is what this Katherine Harris person did, true?
-Jesus!- |
More than a catchy flash movie, I'd like to see some actual proof. I have seen so much fluff about a rigged florida election, etc.. Why hasn't anyone come forward and taken it to the congress or supreme court for further investigation? Why haven't people filed lawsuits against her if they lost their right to vote? Conspiracy theory or fact? I haven't seen any factual evidence produced by anyone about all this, just some vague references in news articles.
My guess would be that even if there were 55,000 disenfranchised voters, how many of them would have even voted? Historical trends are anywhere from 40-55% of eligible (not registered voters which is a lower figure) voters actually vote. |
Hi frax!
Judge Decides Katherine Harris Will Face Lawsuit
NAACP Sues Former Secretary Of State
POSTED: 12:02 p.m. EST February 15, 2002
MIAMI -- Katherine Harris, Florida's former secretary of state, wanted a lawsuit against her thrown out, but a judge has decided to let the case go trial.
The NAACP and four other groups filed suit against Harris (pictured), a former state election chief, and the county elections supervisor. The suit charges that black voters were disenfranchised during the 2000 presidential election.
U.S. District Judge Alan Gold cited "the importance and immediacy of the claims" as he rejected attempts by two state agencies and a company that helped purge voter lists to get out of the case.
The lawsuit cites the state, several counties and the contractor over procedures for voter registration, voter lists and balloting.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 12:18 Post subject:
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| Jack Crow wrote: | | Frax wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | regardless how much Gore lost by.. is what this Katherine Harris person did, true?
-Jesus!- |
More than a catchy flash movie, I'd like to see some actual proof. I have seen so much fluff about a rigged florida election, etc.. Why hasn't anyone come forward and taken it to the congress or supreme court for further investigation? Why haven't people filed lawsuits against her if they lost their right to vote? Conspiracy theory or fact? I haven't seen any factual evidence produced by anyone about all this, just some vague references in news articles.
My guess would be that even if there were 55,000 disenfranchised voters, how many of them would have even voted? Historical trends are anywhere from 40-55% of eligible (not registered voters which is a lower figure) voters actually vote. |
Hi frax!
Judge Decides Katherine Harris Will Face Lawsuit
NAACP Sues Former Secretary Of State
POSTED: 12:02 p.m. EST February 15, 2002
MIAMI -- Katherine Harris, Florida's former secretary of state, wanted a lawsuit against her thrown out, but a judge has decided to let the case go trial.
The NAACP and four other groups filed suit against Harris (pictured), a former state election chief, and the county elections supervisor. The suit charges that black voters were disenfranchised during the 2000 presidential election.
U.S. District Judge Alan Gold cited "the importance and immediacy of the claims" as he rejected attempts by two state agencies and a company that helped purge voter lists to get out of the case.
The lawsuit cites the state, several counties and the contractor over procedures for voter registration, voter lists and balloting. |
I could sue you right now for being stupid. What's your point?
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 12:36 Post subject:
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| Jack Crow wrote: | | Frax wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | regardless how much Gore lost by.. is what this Katherine Harris person did, true?
-Jesus!- |
More than a catchy flash movie, I'd like to see some actual proof. I have seen so much fluff about a rigged florida election, etc.. Why hasn't anyone come forward and taken it to the congress or supreme court for further investigation? Why haven't people filed lawsuits against her if they lost their right to vote? Conspiracy theory or fact? I haven't seen any factual evidence produced by anyone about all this, just some vague references in news articles.
My guess would be that even if there were 55,000 disenfranchised voters, how many of them would have even voted? Historical trends are anywhere from 40-55% of eligible (not registered voters which is a lower figure) voters actually vote. |
Hi frax!
Judge Decides Katherine Harris Will Face Lawsuit
NAACP Sues Former Secretary Of State
POSTED: 12:02 p.m. EST February 15, 2002
MIAMI -- Katherine Harris, Florida's former secretary of state, wanted a lawsuit against her thrown out, but a judge has decided to let the case go trial.
The NAACP and four other groups filed suit against Harris (pictured), a former state election chief, and the county elections supervisor. The suit charges that black voters were disenfranchised during the 2000 presidential election.
U.S. District Judge Alan Gold cited "the importance and immediacy of the claims" as he rejected attempts by two state agencies and a company that helped purge voter lists to get out of the case.
The lawsuit cites the state, several counties and the contractor over procedures for voter registration, voter lists and balloting. |
The only info you came up with is 30 months old?
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Guest
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 12:41 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | Jack Crow wrote: | | Frax wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | regardless how much Gore lost by.. is what this Katherine Harris person did, true?
-Jesus!- |
More than a catchy flash movie, I'd like to see some actual proof. I have seen so much fluff about a rigged florida election, etc.. Why hasn't anyone come forward and taken it to the congress or supreme court for further investigation? Why haven't people filed lawsuits against her if they lost their right to vote? Conspiracy theory or fact? I haven't seen any factual evidence produced by anyone about all this, just some vague references in news articles.
My guess would be that even if there were 55,000 disenfranchised voters, how many of them would have even voted? Historical trends are anywhere from 40-55% of eligible (not registered voters which is a lower figure) voters actually vote. |
Hi frax!
Judge Decides Katherine Harris Will Face Lawsuit
NAACP Sues Former Secretary Of State
POSTED: 12:02 p.m. EST February 15, 2002
MIAMI -- Katherine Harris, Florida's former secretary of state, wanted a lawsuit against her thrown out, but a judge has decided to let the case go trial.
The NAACP and four other groups filed suit against Harris (pictured), a former state election chief, and the county elections supervisor. The suit charges that black voters were disenfranchised during the 2000 presidential election.
U.S. District Judge Alan Gold cited "the importance and immediacy of the claims" as he rejected attempts by two state agencies and a company that helped purge voter lists to get out of the case.
The lawsuit cites the state, several counties and the contractor over procedures for voter registration, voter lists and balloting. |
The only info you came up with is 30 months old? |
the incident itself was the 2000 elections.
Litigation is slow anyway
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 17:07 Post subject:
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Convicted felons...IMHO...should lose their citizenship, including their right to vote. Sorry, but there needs to be some deterrents out there...but it's no like the felon thought..."Oh damn! If I commit this felon, I'll lose my right to vote.".
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ATM Banana
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 8575
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 17:58 Post subject:
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| Docter wrote: | | Convicted felons...IMHO...should lose their citizenship, including their right to vote. Sorry, but there needs to be some deterrents out there...but it's no like the felon thought..."Oh damn! If I commit this felon, I'll lose my right to vote.". |
I'm sorry but I thought this was precisely how it worked already....?
I have a friend who spent 3 years in jail for credit card fraud. He cannot vote anymore. He always jokes about how he has no right to b***h about the politics of this country since he lost his right to.
-Nah-
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 18:00 Post subject:
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As for losing citizenship? That's a bit much... if the point of a "correctional facility" is to make them pay their debt to society and then reinsert them into society... why the f**k would you revoke their citizenship? Might as well take them all out back and shoot them, cuz if you do that you'll just then be b******g about non-citizens taking citizens' jobs... people need to make a living somehow.
-Nah-
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 07/30/04 - 18:26 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | I think the inference is that the republican party got behind this woman to help her get elected. She is "their man" so to speak. Doesnt mean anything illegal was done to get her elected, but I guess they are linking what they consider to be her illegal activities regarding voter registration with a resulting endorsement from the republican party.
or some such whatever...
I dunno, I've decided my brain hurts from all of this political crap. In a perfect world, factual ideas would be laid out. people would study them and vote for whatever their own brand of preference would dictate and everyone would just STFU and get on with life. |
I understood the inference. I just think it's disingenuous. There's not really much evidence that supports what this guy is saying already. And there is no evidence that it has anything to do with her election. It's just a fallacious cause and effect argument.
Anyway, I agree with you. More and more I think our political parties are squashing democracy in this country. Far too many people simply vote for one party or the other without understanding exactly what it is they are voting for.
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