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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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 Posted: 05/10/05 - 20:49 Post subject: Someone mind telling me..
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Why things like this can be taught in schools but Creationism can't be? It's ok to tell a child that it's normal to have two dads but you can't teach them about the possibility that God created us?
| Quote: | Arrested father had point to make
Disputed school's lesson on diversity
By Maria Cramer and Ralph Ranalli, Globe Staff | April 29, 2005
CONCORD -- For David Parker, the first alarm went off in January, when his 5-year-old son came home from his kindergarten class at Lexington's Joseph Estabrook School with a bag of books promoting diversity.
Inside were books about foreign cultures and traditions, along with food recipes. There was also a copy of ''Who's In a Family?" by Robert Skutch, which depicts different kinds of families, including same-**** couples raising children.
The book's contents concerned Parker and prompted him to begin a series of e-mail exchanges with school officials on the subject that culminated in a meeting Wednesday night with Estabrook's principal and district director of instruction. The meeting ended with Parker's arrest after he refused to leave the school, and the Lexington man spent the night in jail.
Yesterday, Parker was arraigned in Concord District Court on one count of trespassing, and a not guilty plea was entered on his behalf. Bail was set at $1,000, and Parker was freed after being ordered to stay off Lexington school property. He is due back in court June 1.
Parker and his wife, Tonia, 34, who was also in court yesterday, said the dispute arose because they asked school officials to notify them about classroom discussions about same-**** marriage and what they called other adult themes. They also wanted the option to exclude their boy, now 6, from those talks.
Parker said he met with school officials to gain those assurances and then refused to leave until he got them. Parker stayed at Estabrook School for more than two hours, according to Superintendent William J. Hurley, as officials and Lexington police urged him to leave. Finally, they arrested him for trespassing.
Parker, who refused to bail himself out of jail Wednesday night, said he spent the night in custody to prove a point.
''I chose to stay, which I'm not sure was a wise move," he said. ''But I wanted to see how far they would go for asking something simple." Parker said he wanted to control ''the timing and manner" in which his son learned about ''adult themes."
''This is not about creating a forum for hate . . . for any segment of society," Parker said after his arraignment. ''I'm just trying to be a good dad."
Hurley did not return calls for comment yesterday. But in an April 27 letter to Parker, Hurley warned him to stay away from school property.
''If you are found on Lexington public schools' properties you will be subject to arrest by the Lexington police," Hurley wrote. ''Access to school properties can only be accomplished with prior written authorization from the superintendent of schools or his designee."
David Parker said he moved his family from New Jersey to Lexington last year after his employer relocated him. He acknowledged yesterday that he and his wife oppose same-**** unions, but they described themselves as Christians who do not advocate hatred.
''We're not intolerant," said Tonia Parker. ''We love all people. That is part of our faith."
A handful of supporters of the Parker family appeared at the courthouse yesterday, including Brian Camenker, director of Article 8 Alliance. The group, which opposes same-**** marriage, posted e-mail exchanges between the Parkers and school officials on the matter on its website. Camenker said Parker contacted him in January.
The case drew interest across the state yesterday.
Governor Mitt Romney, an opponent of same-**** marriage, said: ''Schools under our parental-notification law are required to inform parents . . . of matters relating to human **** that may be taught in the classroom and to allow that child to be out of the classroom for that period of the education."
Romney said he supports parents' right to know, though he declined to speak specifically about the Parker case.
Thomas B. Griffiths, Lexington School Committee chairman, said parents of older students are notified in advance when **** education will be taught.
''We don't view telling a child that there is a family out there with two mommies as teaching about homosexuality, heterosexuality, or any kind of ****," he said. ''We are teaching about the realities of where different children come from."
The bag of books promoting diversity is sent home with one student at a time, said Rachel F. Cortez, copresident of the Estabrook parent-teacher association and a member of the school's Anti-Bias Committee.
Parents received notice about the book bag at the beginning of the year and the date that it was scheduled to be sent home with their child. The bag's contents also were put on display at a back-to-school night earlier in the school year, she said, and parents are not required to have their child bring it home.
''The kids don't have to take them [the materials] home," she said. ''Parents can either opt out entirely or use whatever materials they want."
Tonia Parker said yesterday she attended back-to-school night, but was not told about the bag or its contents.
David Parker said the topic of Wednesday's meeting was not about the book bag, but about concerns that his son could be exposed to more books and lessons about ''gay-headed" households.
''We're not giving unfettered access to the psyche of our son when he enters the school," said Tonia Parker. |
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/04/29/arrested_father_had_point_to_make/
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Manuva
Banned
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2536
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Posted: 05/10/05 - 20:51 Post subject:
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These kind of lessons (and Creationism as well) need to be learned outside of the school. In the homes and churches (if that's your sort of thing).
Schools are for academics, not morality and teaching what is socially acceptable to a child.
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Callaren
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 03 Dec 2003
Posts: 1598
Location: South Jersey
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 00:32 Post subject:
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| Manuva wrote: | These kind of lessons (and Creationism as well) need to be learned outside of the school. In the homes and churches (if that's your sort of thing).
Schools are for academics, not morality and teaching what is socially acceptable to a child. |
I almost completely agree with that, but kids are in school most of the day and there are a lot of parents who don't spend time with and teach their kids everything else. It should probably only go as far to to teaching manners and the most popular morals, like not stealing.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 00:38 Post subject: Re: Someone mind telling me..
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| Scrabler wrote: | | Why things like this can be taught in schools but Creationism can't be? It's ok to tell a child that it's normal to have two dads but you can't teach them about the possibility that God created us? |
You can point to normal kids who grew up in families with two dads. You can't point to God.
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gotissues68
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 1866
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 00:40 Post subject:
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unlike god diversity exists..
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 00:41 Post subject:
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There are too many ways to interpret and teach religion and if you start down that slippery slope, many people are going to b***h and complain about the details offered because they don't fit their own definition. Look at how many different ways the bible is interpreted and taught and how many different churches have been formed because this group or that group wanted their own brand of religion. Of course you also would have to include the book of mormon and the koran and a bunch of other crap. It just isnt feasible.
I think its just easier to let each family's own church/synagogue/temple etc teach them the way the parents would prefer the "details" be taught.
Whether a kid has two dads or two moms isnt in his power to control. Teaching tolerance of this type of situation at least lets the kid enjoy his life, get on with being schooled and having as normal a social life as possible. Would you prefer that intolerance to the situation is taught so that the kid can be ridiculed and turned into our latest in a succession of sociopaths?
Last edited by Frehya on 05/11/05 - 00:45; edited 1 time in total
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Manuva
Banned
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2536
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 00:42 Post subject:
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That's great, but it doesn't change the fact that this article is an example of teaching 5 year old children something that infringes on their religion, leaves the parents in a position to explain just how it does so, and really has no business being taught to students that age.
This isn't a gay/l*****n vs God issue, it's an issue of stuff that shouldn't be taught in elementary schools.
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Galdaria
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 5641
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 00:43 Post subject:
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I had Nachos for dinner.
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 00:43 Post subject: Re: Someone mind telling me..
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| sinrakin wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | | Why things like this can be taught in schools but Creationism can't be? It's ok to tell a child that it's normal to have two dads but you can't teach them about the possibility that God created us? |
You can point to normal kids who grew up in families with two dads. You can't point to God. |
What normal kids with two dads? While we are at it, define "your" normal because that is not normal. haha
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Manuva
Banned
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2536
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 00:45 Post subject:
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| Galdaria wrote: | | I had Nachos for dinner. |
Please stop posting for 24 hours. I have a big ass test tommorow and reading such things by you is making me stupid.
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 00:45 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | | because they don't fit their own definition. |
Perhaps that is the problem, Frehya? People define it to fit what they want? /shrug
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 01:05 Post subject:
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| Manuva wrote: |
This isn't a gay/l*****n vs God issue, it's an issue of stuff that shouldn't be taught in elementary schools. |
Ya, I thought about that too as I was typing the last part. But then I thought maybe some people have found it more constructive to have a chat about it in class instead of letting the usual underlying crap circulate around the school and little Timmy with 2 dads starts getting beat up and ridiculed. Maybe someone got the idea to open a dialog with the kids about it vs the conservative imagined hardline curriculum of "hey kids! gay is great, lets all be gay" etc.
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Manuva
Banned
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2536
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 01:12 Post subject:
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You can't have an open forum like that with kids at that age because their thinking and reasoning abilities are not as well developed.
Think of back when you were that age and they had people come in and talk to you about stuff. Like the fireman, you didn't understand a word he said when he told you about how the firetruck gets the water to shoot out the big ass hose, but when he asked if you had any questions you just sat there (unless you were the class j*****f who always asked a d*****t question for a laugh...like me) with a blank expression on your face because all you wanted to do was climb on the damn firetruck.
If you can't hold their attention span for something like that, how in the hell are you going to hold it long enough to make them understand why little Timmy has two daddys?
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motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 01:17 Post subject:
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You're assuming a false dichotomy. They aren't telling kids to be gay. They're telling kids that gays exist. I have no problem with them saying "Some people believe a magic man created the planet," as long as they don't say "A magic man created the planet" or say anything that would lead anyone to believe that it's actually true.
As for whether it was appropriate or not, that's another matter. But saying "Gays exist" is not the same thing as saying "God created the universe." One is a fact, the other is an opinion. Now if they said "Here's a map to a gay bar, go now!" that may be somewhat over the line.
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 01:28 Post subject:
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| Manuva wrote: | You can't have an open forum like that with kids at that age because their thinking and reasoning abilities are not as well developed.
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I'll agree with you. How about ... please dont be mean to Timmy, his 2 daddies are nice.
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ATM Banana
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 8575
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 03:27 Post subject:
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| motherface wrote: | You're assuming a false dichotomy. They aren't telling kids to be gay. They're telling kids that gays exist. I have no problem with them saying "Some people believe a magic man created the planet," as long as they don't say "A magic man created the planet" or say anything that would lead anyone to believe that it's actually true.
As for whether it was appropriate or not, that's another matter. But saying "Gays exist" is not the same thing as saying "God created the universe." One is a fact, the other is an opinion. Now if they said "Here's a map to a gay bar, go now!" that may be somewhat over the line. |
I skimmed past everyone else's bs, and saw mf's name. I knew right away this would be the only post with any analysis.
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 03:45 Post subject:
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| gotissues68 wrote: | | unlike god diversity exists.. |
What exactly does "diversity" mean to you?
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 03:46 Post subject: Re: Someone mind telling me..
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| sinrakin wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | | Why things like this can be taught in schools but Creationism can't be? It's ok to tell a child that it's normal to have two dads but you can't teach them about the possibility that God created us? |
You can point to normal kids who grew up in families with two dads. You can't point to God. |
You can? Name one you know.
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 03:48 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | There are too many ways to interpret and teach religion and if you start down that slippery slope, many people are going to b***h and complain about the details offered because they don't fit their own definition. Look at how many different ways the bible is interpreted and taught and how many different churches have been formed because this group or that group wanted their own brand of religion. Of course you also would have to include the book of mormon and the koran and a bunch of other crap. It just isnt feasible.
I think its just easier to let each family's own church/synagogue/temple etc teach them the way the parents would prefer the "details" be taught.
Whether a kid has two dads or two moms isnt in his power to control. Teaching tolerance of this type of situation at least lets the kid enjoy his life, get on with being schooled and having as normal a social life as possible. Would you prefer that intolerance to the situation is taught so that the kid can be ridiculed and turned into our latest in a succession of sociopaths? |
I don't think it should be legal from the get go.
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 03:49 Post subject: Re: Someone mind telling me..
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| Dyers wrote: | | sinrakin wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | | Why things like this can be taught in schools but Creationism can't be? It's ok to tell a child that it's normal to have two dads but you can't teach them about the possibility that God created us? |
You can point to normal kids who grew up in families with two dads. You can't point to God. |
What normal kids with two dads? While we are at it, define "your" normal because that is not normal. haha |
Normal to block head is his wife washing her poon in the kitchen sink.
This is what you are dealing with here.
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Callaren
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 03 Dec 2003
Posts: 1598
Location: South Jersey
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 09:05 Post subject:
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Four posts in a row, Kbarr
/clap
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Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 3086
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 09:07 Post subject:
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| Manuva wrote: | These kind of lessons (and Creationism as well) need to be learned outside of the school. In the homes and churches (if that's your sort of thing).
Schools are for academics, not morality and teaching what is socially acceptable to a child. |
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khrath
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8750
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 09:51 Post subject:
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ugh, teaching acceptance is nothing like teaching creationism.
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motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
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Posted: 05/11/05 - 10:31 Post subject:
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I used to hang out in IRC and there was a guy there who was like 85% identical to Kbarr. He just kept saying crazy shit to p**s people off and calling everybody "liberal douchebags." Turned out he was a former NJ cop. Eventually everybody got so aggravated that they stopped going to that channel and he got bored with nobody to bother so he quit as well.
Kbarr, did you play Q3 CTF as Hack?!
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