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Herbgotti
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 2110
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 Posted: 04/09/04 - 12:16 Post subject: So what's the deal with 9/11 ??
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Did bush know what was going to happen.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 12:24 Post subject:
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Obviously not. But it's an election year, so slimy Democrats have to tear the nation apart in the midst of a war. Great job lefties!
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Owyyn
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2900
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 13:03 Post subject:
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A completely unneeded war too!
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Banzai
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 13:06 Post subject:
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| Phoenix wrote: | | Obviously not. But it's an election year, so slimy Democrats have to tear the nation apart in the midst of a war. Great job lefties! |
Yea, political discussion should be left to blow jobs in an election year... much more important.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 13:11 Post subject:
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| Banzai wrote: | | Phoenix wrote: | | Obviously not. But it's an election year, so slimy Democrats have to tear the nation apart in the midst of a war. Great job lefties! |
Yea, political discussion should be left to blow jobs in an election year... much more important. |
Political discussion is fine (and now restricted with McCain Feingold!). That's one thing. But to politicize a surprise attack is ridiculous.
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Banzai
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 13:14 Post subject:
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| Phoenix wrote: | | Banzai wrote: | | Phoenix wrote: | | Obviously not. But it's an election year, so slimy Democrats have to tear the nation apart in the midst of a war. Great job lefties! |
Yea, political discussion should be left to blow jobs in an election year... much more important. |
Political discussion is fine (and now restricted with McCain Feingold!). That's one thing. But to politicize a surprise attack is ridiculous. |
The levels of wrong in that statment cannot even begin to be touched.
Besides I'm not getting into political debates here, I know the result.
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r00typooh
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5178
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 13:47 Post subject:
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i'm just glad we're blowing people up again
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 13:51 Post subject:
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| r00tus wrote: | | i'm just glad we're blowing people up again |
450 Iraqis dead! Yay!
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 14:24 Post subject:
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Q: Did the Bush administration treat terrorism as an urgent threat?
Richard Clarke - "I tried very hard to create a sense of urgency by seeing to it that intelligence reports on the Al Qaeda threat were frequently given to the president and other high-level officials.... But although I continued to say it was an urgent problem, I don't think it was ever treated that way."
Condoleezza Rice - "We all had a strong sense that this was a very crucial issue.... But we did want to take the time to get in place a policy that was more strageic towards Al Qaeda, more robust... I understand that there are those who have said they felt it wasn't moving along fast enough.. but I think we were putting the energy into it."
Q: Did Rice ignore Clarke's proposal in January 2001 for a tougher policy?
Richard Clarke - "The response was that in the report to the deputies committe, which is a sub-Cabinet-level committee, and not to the Cabinet officers.... it slowed the process down enormously, by months. First of all, the deputies committee didn't meet urgently in January or February. Then, when the deputies committee did meet, it took the issue of Al Qaeda as part of a cluster of policy issues.... I was sufficiently frustrated that I asked to be reassigned."
Condoleezza Rice - "I talked to d**k Clarke.... Shortly after his memo to me saying that Al Qaeda was a major threat, we set out to try and craft a better strategy. But we were quite cognizant of this group, of the fact that something had to be done.... The fact is that what we were presented on January the 25th was a set of ideas and a paper, most of which was about what the Clinton administration had done... We decided to take a different track. We decided to put together a strategic approach."
Q: Should Bush have reacted more strongly to terrorism warnings in the summer of 2001?
Richard Clarke - In 2000, the Clinton administration "shook the trees to find out if there was any information. You know, when you know the United States is going to be attacked, the top people in the United States government ought to be working hands-on to prevent it and working together. Now, contrast that with what happened in the summer of 2001, when we even had more clear indications that there was going to be an attack. Did the president ask for daily meetings of his team to try to stop the attack? Did Condi Rice hold meetings of her counterparts to try to stop the attack? No."
Condoleezza Rice - Rice (from an interview with CNN, March 24): "I do not believe that it is a good analysis to go back and assume that somehow maybe we would have gotten lucky by, quote, shaking the trees. d**k Clarke was shaking the trees, the director of central intelligence was shaking the trees, the director of the FBI was shaking the trees."
Q: Was the FBI capable of detecting Al Qaeda activities inside the United States?
Richard Clarke - "The fact that we didn't have intelligence that we could point to that said an attack would take place in the United States wasn't significant in my view, because -- frankly, sir, I know how this is going to sound but I have to say it -- I didn't think the FBI would know wether or not there was anything going on in the United States by Al Qaeda."
Condoleezza Rice - "d**k Clarke had told me, I think in a amemorandum -- I remember it as being only a line or two -- that there were Al Qaeda cells in the United States.... I also understood.. that the FBI was pursuing these Al Qaeda cells... and so there was no reccomendation that we do something about this; the FBI was pursuing it."
Q: Was Clarke prevented from breifing Bush directly on terrorism?
Richard Clarke - "I asked for a series of briefings on the issues in my portfolio, including counterterrorism... I was told I could brief the president on terrorism after this policy development process was comlete."
Condoleezza Rice - "All that he needed to do was to say, I need time to brief the president on something... d**k Clarke never asked me to brief the president on counterterrorism."
Q: Did Bush ask Clarke to link the 9/11 attack to Iraq?
Richard Clarke - Clarke (in his book, "Against All Enemies"): President Bush "grabbed a few of us and closed the door to the conference room... 'Look,' he told us, 'I know you have a lot to do and all... But I want you, as soon as you can, to go back over everything, everything. See if Saddam did this."
Condoleezza Rice - "I don't remember the discussion that d**k Clarke relates... But it's not surprising that the president would say 'What about Iraq?' given our hostile relationship with Iraq. And I'm quite certain that the president never pushed anybody to twist the facts."
Q: Has the war in Iraq diverted resources from the war on terrorism?
Richard Clarke - "The reason I am strident in my criticism of the president of the United States is because by invading Iraq ... the president of the United States has greatly undermined the war on terrorism."
Condoleeza Rice - "The Iraqi people are struggling to find a way to create a multiethnic democracy ... and when they succeed, I think they will have made a big change in the middle of the Arab world, and we will be on our way to addressing the source" of terrorism.
Q: Should the Bush administartion apologize for its failure to prevent the Sept. 11 attacks?
Richard Clarke - "Your government failed you. Those entrusted with protecting you failed you. And I failed you. We tried hard, but that doesn't matter because we failed. And for that failure, I would ask, once and all the facts are out, for your understanding and for your forgiveness."
Condoleezza Rice - "As an officer of government on duty that day, I will never forget the sorrow and the anger I felt.... I've asked myself a thousand times what more we could have done. I know that had we thought that there was an attack coming in Washington or New York, we would have moved heaven and earth to try and stop it. And I know that there was no single thing that might have prevented that attack."
Dunno what to think..condoleezza brings up great arguments to every single one of Clarke's claims, but some of her arguments are semi-weak in that you can't really prove what she is saying. But it works both ways, how the hell do we know what Clarke is telling us is only what he perceived to be happening, rather than what was really happening?
I just dunno...
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 15:59 Post subject:
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| Phoenix wrote: | | r00tus wrote: | | i'm just glad we're blowing people up again |
450 Iraqis dead! Yay! |
At the cost of 600 American troops.
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Xion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2117
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 16:13 Post subject:
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| wellspoken wrote: | | Phoenix wrote: | | r00tus wrote: | | i'm just glad we're blowing people up again |
450 Iraqis dead! Yay! |
At the cost of 600 American troops. |
You fuckwit, that 450 is just in like the last week, haha.
We killed thousands in the war.
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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 16:13 Post subject:
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no one knew, that 9/11 comission is a s****y show trial
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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 16:19 Post subject:
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People need to realize that there are more than a thousand p**s-ant terrorist groups that are active in the world. The united states by itself doesn't have the resources to police every single one of these groups. US agencies evaluate the potential threat of each group and they throw man hours at the ones they think are the biggest threats. You also need to remember that PEOPLE do not want to pay taxes to police some s****y 3rd world factions. The voters and the politicians in this country didn't take terrorism seriously untill 9/11. Why should they? The people weren't concerned, so why should they be? I'd venture to say that we spent more money on the 'war on drugs' before 9/11 than we did on counter terrorism, because drugs were seen as a bigger threat than these violent sects. 9/11 can't be pinned on anyone, in some ways America's indifference is the only thing that could be found culpable. The truth hurts doesn't it?
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 16:19 Post subject:
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| Xion wrote: | | wellspoken wrote: | | Phoenix wrote: | | r00tus wrote: | | i'm just glad we're blowing people up again |
450 Iraqis dead! Yay! |
At the cost of 600 American troops. |
You fuckwit, that 450 is just in like the last week, haha.
We killed thousands in the war. |
lol
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 16:24 Post subject:
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| wellspoken wrote: | | Phoenix wrote: | | r00tus wrote: | | i'm just glad we're blowing people up again |
450 Iraqis dead! Yay! |
At the cost of 600 American troops. |
lol...d*****s. The US killed about 13,000 during the invasion when only about 120 US troops died. That's a kill ratio of over 100 to 1. d*****s. Not only that, but the US's forces were so accurate, that only 1 in over 2000 Iraqis were killed in the war. Compare that to Germany's WWII death rate of 1 in 10.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 16:27 Post subject:
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| Phoenix wrote: | | wellspoken wrote: | | Phoenix wrote: | | r00tus wrote: | | i'm just glad we're blowing people up again |
450 Iraqis dead! Yay! |
At the cost of 600 American troops. |
lol...d*****s. The US killed about 13,000 during the invasion when only about 120 US troops died. That's a kill ratio of over 100 to 1. d*****s. Not only that, but the US's forces were so accurate, that only 1 in over 2000 Iraqis were killed in the war. Compare that to Germany's WWII death rate of 1 in 10. |
lol, sorry.
I just woke up and got some d*****s b***h screaming in my ear about her f*****g mouse not working. =\
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 16:29 Post subject:
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this thread is destined for the s*****r
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 16:31 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | | this thread is destined for the s*****r |
Now that you posted in it.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 16:31 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | | this thread is destined for the s*****r |
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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 16:34 Post subject:
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Why does anyone care about what the iraqi people want honestly. They have already demonstrated they know nothing about governing themselves. The USA knows what is best for iraq at this point in time and if iraq thinks they can do a better job then they can prove it by disowning s****y jihad theology. Jesus christ these people are still living in the stone age and they think they know what is best for themselves.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12940
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 18:10 Post subject:
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| lauren000 wrote: | | People need to realize that there are more than a thousand p**s-ant terrorist groups that are active in the world. The united states by itself doesn't have the resources to police every single one of these groups. US agencies evaluate the potential threat of each group and they throw man hours at the ones they think are the biggest threats. You also need to remember that PEOPLE do not want to pay taxes to police some s****y 3rd world factions. The voters and the politicians in this country didn't take terrorism seriously untill 9/11. Why should they? The people weren't concerned, so why should they be? I'd venture to say that we spent more money on the 'war on drugs' before 9/11 than we did on counter terrorism, because drugs were seen as a bigger threat than these violent sects. 9/11 can't be pinned on anyone, in some ways America's indifference is the only thing that could be found culpable. The truth hurts doesn't it? |
I'm waiting to read any truth from your posts. Still. Waiting.
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Xthos
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 550
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 18:14 Post subject:
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Clarke is SELLING a book, hes anti-bush, and was linked to John Kerry's election campaign (which he then vowed that he wouldn't work for Kerry to keep his credibility and not hurt his book sales). If Clarke didn't stir shit up and dramatize it, he wouldn't be selling copies of his book and making money. The new administration was only in office like 230 days, it takes a lot of presidents to their second term to change policies and get things going the way they want it to.
If Clinton was doing such a good job, then while this was planned for like 2 years, why didn't he figure it out?
This whole thing is a waste of money, smoke and mirrors, and a big blame game.
Dems are blaming Bush, the Reps are blaming Clinton. According to people that worked for Clinton and wrote books also, they tried for years to get him to kill Bin Laden, and when he finally wanted to do it, it was hard to get at him and kill him.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 18:15 Post subject:
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Obviously more could have been done, whether or not Bush was treating it seriously is something we will probably never know for certain, and the whole question of Iraq and terrorism will only be answered in time depending how badly the administration continues to f**k up over there.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 18:39 Post subject:
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lmao!
dude that owns.
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Banzai
Guest
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 18:51 Post subject:
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The non-bias take on this is that it boils down to semantics, just like Clinton. It's the same b******t politics where everyone is right and everyone is wrong at the same time.
Clinton says a b*****b isn't a "**** relation"
Rice says a list of action items isn't a "plan"
Whatever, in both cases it's a waist of time and just a dog and pony show.
The only thing that matters is how peoples opinions on these kind of things will effect the polls in middle America because that's the only place that really swings in an election year.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 20:28 Post subject:
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Both Clinton and Bush were obviously aware Al Qaeda cells were operating within the United States. However, in keeping with US tradition, we didn't strike first.
I personally believe this country has really gotten off on a tangent with Iraq and I'd like to start seeing legitimate headway so we can get out of there (that constitution isn't worth the paper it's printed on), but coming after Bush over 9/11 is a bit ridiculous. I've never agreed with that.
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Tura
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 4866
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 20:52 Post subject:
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bottom line:
9-11 could NOT have been prevented because of the stand-alone fact that we had no solid intel that stuck out among the other thousands of threats we were receiving at the time.
The 9-11 commision is a organization of people and political figures venting their anger in the wrong direction.
Mrs Rice did something that not even Richard Clark was willing to do, which is allow herself to be questioned. Even through all the stabs and deliberate camera performances she kept her cool and answered every question to the best of her ability.
The Bush administration may not be perfect but they deserve ALOT more respect than they have gotten this year.
Politics in the last 4 years has dove into an all-time low thanks to parties on ALL sides. Although I will say I have seen a much larger ratio of punches below the belt from the liberals.
Whatever wing you rest on you should always revere your president with some respect and work with your fellow Americans in making this country and world a better place to live in.
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Guest
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 21:35 Post subject:
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We had to take over afghan and iraq before we could place bases there. We are right on target and moving forward, according to plan.
DRIVE ON GEORGE!!
No way that traitorous scum, kerry, will win:)
4 More Years GW!!!!
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 21:58 Post subject:
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I seriously doubt he makes another 4 years.
The people are sick of his b******t. =\
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Guest
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Posted: 04/09/04 - 22:08 Post subject:
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| wellspoken wrote: | I seriously doubt he makes another 4 years.
The people are sick of his b******t. =\ |
Well the other half, the smart half, are tired of scumbag democrat liberal a******s.
FOUR more years!!!
GW is da KING!!!
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