|
|
| Author |
Message |
khrath
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8750
|
 Posted: 05/17/04 - 06:07 Post subject: Same **** marriages legal in mass.
|
|
|
lets go get married in the butt wtf
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/05/17/mass.gay.marriage/index.html
| Quote: |
CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (CNN) -- The champagne is chilled, the cakes are frosted, and gay and l*****n couples across Massachusetts are ready to make history Monday by saying "I do."
|
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
 |
Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 06:10 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
khrath
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8750
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 06:13 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Celestra wrote: | |
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 06:14 Post subject:
|
|
|
Krath....
Will you marry me?
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
khrath
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8750
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 06:16 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
im waiting on one of the states that allow multiiple partners, then i'm gonna mary like 5 guys
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 06:21 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Khrath wrote: | | im waiting on one of the states that allow multiiple partners, then i'm gonna mary like 5 guys |
I thought we already established that the slippery slope argument is nonsense.
http://www.polygamy.com
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Banzai
Guest
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 11:54 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Confused wrote: |
I thought we already established that the slippery soap argument is nonsense. |
You are going to need that slippery soap to have butt **** w/Khrath.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Petr
Luke Warm
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 102
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 12:06 Post subject:
|
|
|
Polygamy is next,
followed shortly by NAMBLA winning their lawsuit so they have the legal right to rape young boys.
the "joys" of twisting the constitution to say what you want it to say and 3 cheers for judicial activism.
One "good" thing i guess... the sooner america embraces homosexual marriage, the sooner america will crumble into ruin... Jesus's return shouldnt be too long after that
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 12:24 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Petr wrote: | Polygamy is next,
followed shortly by NAMBLA winning their lawsuit so they have the legal right to rape young boys.
the "joys" of twisting the constitution to say what you want it to say and 3 cheers for judicial activism.
One "good" thing i guess... the sooner america embraces homosexual marriage, the sooner america will crumble into ruin... Jesus's return shouldnt be too long after that |
I suppose that's one way to look at it.. I'm not that pessimistic about it. Based on sheer numbers alone I doubt there would be anything close to widespread support for something like what you're talking about.
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 12:25 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Nahualli wrote: | | Petr wrote: | Polygamy is next,
followed shortly by NAMBLA winning their lawsuit so they have the legal right to rape young boys.
the "joys" of twisting the constitution to say what you want it to say and 3 cheers for judicial activism.
One "good" thing i guess... the sooner america embraces homosexual marriage, the sooner america will crumble into ruin... Jesus's return shouldnt be too long after that |
I suppose that's one way to look at it.. I'm not that pessimistic about it. Based on sheer numbers alone I doubt there would be anything close to widespread support for something like what you're talking about.
-Nah- |
Go back 15 years and look at support for homosexuality.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 3086
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 12:27 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Nahualli wrote: | | Petr wrote: | Polygamy is next,
followed shortly by NAMBLA winning their lawsuit so they have the legal right to rape young boys.
the "joys" of twisting the constitution to say what you want it to say and 3 cheers for judicial activism.
One "good" thing i guess... the sooner america embraces homosexual marriage, the sooner america will crumble into ruin... Jesus's return shouldnt be too long after that |
I suppose that's one way to look at it.. I'm not that pessimistic about it. Based on sheer numbers alone I doubt there would be anything close to widespread support for something like what you're talking about.
-Nah- |
What exactly IS your view on gay marriage anyway? Do you have one? I've seen you play the devil's advocate on a few different threads and I was just curious how you feel about it all.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Petr
Luke Warm
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 102
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 12:37 Post subject:
|
|
|
Nah, there isnt widespread support for homosexual marriage now either. It couldnt pass a vote from Mass. Legislature. It is being legislated from the bench as it is.
Besides, you truely only have to convince 5 people to get what you want declared as a right.
Breyer, Kennedy, Ginsberg, O'Conner, Souter.
That is all you have to do to get your pet interest declared as a right in this country.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Alerik
Sir Postalot
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1375
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 12:40 Post subject:
|
|
|
I love how people say that the allowance of same-**** marriages will lead to the allowance of polygamy and pedophilia.
I mean shit, maybe even they will allow cannibalism!! OMG FAGZ ARE EATING PEOPLEZ!!1!
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 12:43 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Alerik wrote: | I love how people say that the allowance of same-**** marriages will lead to the allowance of polygamy and pedophilia.
I mean shit, maybe even they will allow cannibalism!! OMG FAGZ ARE EATING PEOPLEZ!!1! |
You can count on polygamy. That's a certainty. I'm guessing there will be a fight for pedophilia, but I don't know for sure if that will pass.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Alerik
Sir Postalot
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1375
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 12:46 Post subject:
|
|
|
Don't be silly, the public would not tolerate sickos for practicing the molestation of minors.
Polygamy is difficult because of all the problems with pedophilia that are involved. Out west where polygamy is practiced in bumfuck nowhere mormon towns, alot of the multiple wives are taken when they are under 18.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Petr
Luke Warm
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 102
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 12:46 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Alerik wrote: | I love how people say that the allowance of same-**** marriages will lead to the allowance of polygamy and pedophilia.
I mean shit, maybe even they will allow cannibalism!! OMG FAGZ ARE EATING PEOPLEZ!!1! |
Alerik has a short memory.
It was after the lawerence case that gay marriage came to the forefront... as one of the outcomes of that case.
your vision is much too narrow.
Friends of mine wrote me an e-mail a year ago before the Lawerence decision came out, saying the exact same thing, except, insert your polygamy and pedophelia with gay marriage...
And why not. What is the problem with polygamy anyways? i mean, if we can allow two men to marry, then the definition of marriage no longer applies (between one man and one woman) that why exactly cant polygamists marry?
and NAMBLA is working hard to get what they do legalized... funny, just like the homosexual lobby.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 12:49 Post subject:
|
|
|
Why do you guys even car eof gay people get married, it wont change anything in your life damnit so just sTFU already and let the people live their life as they want to be. No one come at your home saying : Hey games are bad for you j*****s go outside!
This is why the world is so f****d up..because of people that just cant accept the fact that no one want to live the same crappy life as they did.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 3086
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 12:49 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Alerik wrote: | Don't be silly, the public would not tolerate sickos for practicing the molestation of minors.
Polygamy is difficult because of all the problems with pedophilia that are involved. Out west where polygamy is practiced in bumfuck nowhere mormon towns, alot of the multiple wives are taken when they are under 18. |
So f**s can get married to each other but men can't marry multiple underage woman? You sick, dirty, prejudiced b*****d!
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 13:18 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Ikkan wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | | Petr wrote: | Polygamy is next,
followed shortly by NAMBLA winning their lawsuit so they have the legal right to rape young boys.
the "joys" of twisting the constitution to say what you want it to say and 3 cheers for judicial activism.
One "good" thing i guess... the sooner america embraces homosexual marriage, the sooner america will crumble into ruin... Jesus's return shouldnt be too long after that |
I suppose that's one way to look at it.. I'm not that pessimistic about it. Based on sheer numbers alone I doubt there would be anything close to widespread support for something like what you're talking about.
-Nah- |
What exactly IS your view on gay marriage anyway? Do you have one? I've seen you play the devil's advocate on a few different threads and I was just curious how you feel about it all. |
I'm not sure where this impression came from.. I've never played devil's advocate on gay marriage. It's something I'm totally in favor of. Why wouldn't I be? I don't feel it will lead to the erosion of American families or American society. Any moral erosion that's taken place in American families has managed to happen without the help of gays and lesbians being given the right to legally marry.
I didn't run out and get married because it wasn't legal when they were doing it in San Francisco and therefore, meaningless to me. It's an act of civil disobedience until then, nothing more. I'm not a political activist.
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 14:17 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Maelstrom wrote: | Why do you guys even car eof gay people get married, it wont change anything in your life damnit so just sTFU already and let the people live their life as they want to be. No one come at your home saying : Hey games are bad for you j*****s go outside!
This is why the world is so f****d up..because of people that just cant accept the fact that no one want to live the same crappy life as they did. |
No Mael, the world is 'f****d up' as you so eloquently put it because of arguments like your's.
What does it matter? It matters because marriage means something to most of the country. You can argue around and around about divorce rates but the fact still stands that the standard (and majority) definition of marriage does not include two men or two women. It matters because those are the generally accepted values of society and they don't discriminate against anyone (despite your b******t logic that says it does).
Finally, a politician actually suggested the intelligent compromise which is federally recognized civil unions. Imagine that...a compromise between two opposing positions. The last time I checked, that's the way our government is SUPPOSED to work. It's too bad that it'll never happen because our special interest groups have the collective maturity level of a bunch of 5 year olds. The entire 'I want this so I'm going to legally ram it down your throat and if you oppose me, I'll degrade and insult you' tactic is the exact opposite of the way things are supposed to work.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 14:50 Post subject:
|
|
|
Universally recognized civil unions is the way to go.. it's too bad people can't think through this logically. Keep the Marriages in the churches.
Note to Ikkan : If you think this is me playing devil's advocate then I need to be more careful to not use the word "marriage" so often. I make the same mistake as many other people by equating marriage with state sanctioned civil union, which ultimately, is what this whole debate is about. I only plead the excuse that it's easier to write "marriage" than it is "state-sanctioned civil union" 
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 3086
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 14:51 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Nahualli wrote: | Universally recognized civil unions is the way to go.. it's too bad people can't think through this logically. Keep the Marriages in the churches.
Note to Ikkan : If you think this is me playing devil's advocate then I need to be more careful to not use the word "marriage" so often. I make the same mistake as many other people by equating marriage with state sanctioned civil union, which ultimately, is what this whole debate is about. I only plead the excuse that it's easier to write "marriage" than it is "state-sanctioned civil union"
-Nah- |
Yeah that's what I did most of the time =/ Sorry Nah! <3
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 14:54 Post subject:
|
|
|
What I believe is that two (please take careful note of this number) people who are in a committed relationship should be able to be joined in a legally recognized, federally sanctioned union. In other words we should be allowed to marry in the eyes of the law. Not the Church. That's a whole other battle and one I don't intend to fight. The churches have their own domain and what they say goes in their houses.
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 14:58 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Nah, just to be clear on this, my post wasn't directed at you. You've been surprisingly reasonable about this entire thing considering it directly affects you. As usual, the 'do-gooders' have turned this into a bigger argument than it should be by insisting that they know best.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 14:59 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Celestra wrote: | |
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Booker
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2562
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 14:59 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Nuldaan wrote: | | Maelstrom wrote: | Why do you guys even car eof gay people get married, it wont change anything in your life damnit so just sTFU already and let the people live their life as they want to be. No one come at your home saying : Hey games are bad for you j*****s go outside!
This is why the world is so f****d up..because of people that just cant accept the fact that no one want to live the same crappy life as they did. |
It matters because those are the generally accepted values of society and they don't discriminate against anyone (despite your b******t logic that says it does). |
i thought this whole argument was about gays not being allowed to get married? did i miss something?
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 15:00 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Nuldaan wrote: | | Nah, just to be clear on this, my post wasn't directed at you. You've been surprisingly reasonable about this entire thing considering it directly affects you. As usual, the 'do-gooders' have turned this into a bigger argument than it should be by insisting that they know best. |
Oh absolutely.. I understand when a dig is aimed at me and when it's not 
I was agreeing with you and expanding on your point, I just failed to quote you because I'm a "special" child 
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 15:08 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Booker wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: | | Maelstrom wrote: | Why do you guys even car eof gay people get married, it wont change anything in your life damnit so just sTFU already and let the people live their life as they want to be. No one come at your home saying : Hey games are bad for you j*****s go outside!
This is why the world is so f****d up..because of people that just cant accept the fact that no one want to live the same crappy life as they did. |
It matters because those are the generally accepted values of society and they don't discriminate against anyone (despite your b******t logic that says it does). |
i thought this whole argument was about gays not being allowed to get married? did i miss something? |
Yes Booker, you did.
Discrimination in this case would be the act of preventing people from doing something based on race, age, **** preference, etc.
Marriage is a religious institution that symbolizes the union of a man and a woman. There is nothing preventing a gay man from getting married to a woman. He simply chooses not to (nor should he get married to her I might add). Likewise, a heterosexual male cannot marry another man. The fact that the heterosexual man doesn't want to is irrelevant.
There is no discrimination here. No man or woman is allowed to marry someone of the same ****. There are no exceptions that would make this a case of discrimination.
There is a legal disparity based on the benefits of marriage that extend beyond the religious. That is why I've advocated federal civil unions from the beginning. That way the legal benefits of marriage are still available to those who cannot be married.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 15:13 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Booker wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: | | Maelstrom wrote: | Why do you guys even car eof gay people get married, it wont change anything in your life damnit so just sTFU already and let the people live their life as they want to be. No one come at your home saying : Hey games are bad for you j*****s go outside!
This is why the world is so f****d up..because of people that just cant accept the fact that no one want to live the same crappy life as they did. |
It matters because those are the generally accepted values of society and they don't discriminate against anyone (despite your b******t logic that says it does). |
i thought this whole argument was about gays not being allowed to get married? did i miss something? |
Hun, lemme break it down for you a little.
First of all the extensive misuse of the word "Marriage" is partially at fault. For whatever reason, over time "Marriage" has come to be associated with BOTH the religious ceremony observed in most religions around the world and the legal act of being issued a license and being granted rights to your spouse and their belongings, etc.
The problem right now is that gays are not allowed to partake in such an act in any church apart from some random protestant denominations. They are also not allowed to be united legally for a couple of reasons. DOMA (defense of marriage act) was passed by most states defining "Marriage" as the union of one man and one woman. Huge mistake.
The argument here is that the line between church sanctioned and state sanctioned unions has been unintentionally blurred over time to the point where "Marriage" now means any union between two people. For a time this worked because gays were told they weren't able to have meaningful relationships and this was just the expected norm.
This is where gays and lesbians come in. They want to be able to "marry" well, what does that mean? That's where this problem starts. Some of the more moderate among us have decided that it's high time to split up state and church sanctioned unions the way it was MEANT to be. The state has NO business determining who can and can't "marry" that's the church's job.
The big debate right now is that some diehard gay rights activists have taken the issue to court, suing for the right to "marry". The victory, while astonishing, is half assed. Neither goal has been reached. They still don't have the real right to "marry" because their marriage is null outside the borders of the state of Mass and they managed to p**s off a LOT of people in the process, people who feel that the sanctity of a very old religious custom is being defiled. For all intents and purpose it is, for the mere fact that people stubbornly refuse to drop the extensive use of the word "marriage" and allowing it to cover state and church unions.
If we were to seperate the two and let them represent what they actually should represent, I think both parties would be worlds happier. If we allowed the government to start issues civil unions to both straight and gay couples without distinction and left the actually "marriages" to the churches, they could get what they wanted and we could get what we wanted.
This help any? Granted this is only part of the issue, there's more out there I'm not covering, it's quite a fundamental question of where people draw the line.
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 05/17/04 - 15:29 Post subject:
|
|
|
Ok, sorry you've done it twice now I have to ask you what you're talking about.
| Nuldaan wrote: | Discrimination in this case would be the act of preventing people from doing something based on race, age, **** preference, etc.
There is no discrimination here. No man or woman is allowed to marry someone of the same ****. There are no exceptions that would make this a case of discrimination. |
No man or woman is allowed to marry someone of the same ****. WHY NOT? Why do you still think this is above the realm of discrimination? Just because removing the government from the marriage process is the best workaround given the far-reaching nature of the issue doesn't make the motives of the church RIGHT. No one's taken on the church yet but that doesn't mean that they don't want to. Simply put no religion that teaches you about "loving thy neighbor as you love thine self" (referring to catholics) should be in any position to take on who's good and who's not. It's been said before by the man upstairs "judge not lest ye be judged yourself" and quite frankly sir, this all reeks of [pre]judgement.
And here you did it again.
| Nuldaan wrote: | | the fact still stands that the standard (and majority) definition of marriage does not include two men or two women. It matters because those are the generally accepted values of society and they don't discriminate against anyone |
In the same set of sentences you've both stated that discrimination doesn't exist yet laid out an example of it. So you're basically justifying discrimination in general based on the principle of "that's how it's always been" or more to the point "that's just what everyone else says"
To a more extreme point, slavery was also a human institution that for AGES was not considered morally reprehensible and in fact was completely and totally accepted, condoned and encouraged. Whole societies throve on slavery and whole societies suffered because of it. In hindsight it's east to look back and say "oh, yeah.. slavery. Bad" but if you were in, oh I dunno ancient Egypt or feudal Japan would you be able to look out and say "Oh... human subjugation. Bad" No.. you wouldn't. Why is this any different in essence? Just because it's how it's always been done? Huh?
This is what I don't understand about you. It just seems a bit too sheep-ish to take seriously.
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
