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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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 Posted: 08/01/04 - 23:36 Post subject: Republicans plan push for elimination of IRS
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http://www.drudgereport.com/rnc.htm
| Quote: | XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SUN AUG 01, 2004 21:01:25 ET XXXXX
REPUBLICANS PLAN PUSH FOR ELIMINATION OF IRS
**Exclusive**
A domestic centerpiece of the Bush/GOP agenda for a second Bush term is getting rid of the Internal Revenue Service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.
The Speaker of the House will push for replacing the nation's current tax system with a national sales tax or a value added tax, Hill sources tell DRUDGE.
"People ask me if I’m really calling for the elimination of the IRS, and I say I think that’s a great thing to do for future generations of Americans," Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert explains in his new book, to be released on Wednesday.
"Pushing reform legislation will be difficult. Change of any sort seldom comes easy. But these changes are critical to our economic vitality and our economic security abroad," Hastert declares in SPEAKER: LESSONS FROM FORTY YEARS IN COACHING AND POLITICS.
"“If you own property, stock, or, say, one hundred acres of farmland and tax time is approaching, you don’t want to make a mistake, so you’re almost obliged to go to a certified public accountant, tax preparer, or tax attorney to help you file a correct return. That costs a lot of money. Now multiply the amount you have to pay by the total number of people who are in the same boat. You can’t. No one can because precise numbers don’t exist. But we can stipulate that we’re talking about a huge amount. Now consider that a flat tax, national sales tax, or VAT would not only eliminate the need to do this, it could also eliminate the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) itself and make the process of paying taxes much easier."
"By adopting a VAT, sales tax, or some other alternative, we could begin to change productivity. If you can do that, you can change gross national product and start growing the economy. You could double the economy over the next fifteen years. All of a sudden, the problem of what future generations owe in Social Security and Medicare won’t be so daunting anymore. The answer is to grow the economy, and the key to doing that is making sure we have a tax system that attracts capital and builds incentives to keep it here instead of forcing it out to other nations."
Developing...
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 08:54 Post subject:
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I'll believe it when I see it.. The Treasury deptarment is farily powerful in our government.. they won't give up the IRS easily.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 08:58 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | I'll believe it when I see it.. The Treasury deptarment is farily powerful in our government.. they won't give up the IRS easily. |
exactly
i mean, how the f**k would we pay for freedom?
but maybe times will change
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 10:27 Post subject:
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well it might garner some more of the ignor-anus vote so its an idea worth putting out there.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 11:11 Post subject:
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Having a VAT wouldn't be all bad. It would be nice that every single American didn't have to be an accountant. Between owning a subchapter S corp, a few rental properties plus my own house, and being in a limited partnership, I pay something like $4,000 a year to my accountant just to do my personal and business taxes and file quarterly reports. That's ridiculous.
On the other hand, it would presumably mean more costs to businesses to document and pay VAT. I assume computing the amount of "value" added to a product would be contentious and require voluminous documentation.
Plus we've used the "1040" form for as a reliable indicator of income for things like financial aid, divorce settlements, etc - you'd have to replace that with paying for an audit or something.
And a lot of social policy is implemented through the tax code. Wrongly, in my opinion, but it does make it easy to give money to parents, people with high medical expenses, people who invest or buy houses, and any of a bunch of other things the government wants to encourage. Hard to see what would replace that, although it would be kind of nice just to see it all go away.
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Abi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 1747
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 13:34 Post subject:
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Interesting... I'll wait to hear more...
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Guest
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 13:45 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Republicans plan push for elimination of IRS |
b******t
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ATM Banana
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 8575
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 14:08 Post subject:
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Hah, so basically those who have lots to report won't have to anymore?
nice... so basically rich fat bastards won't have to report crap?
i like it, a LOT.
/sarcasm
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Pankrat
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 603
Location: Land of Paranoia
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 14:11 Post subject:
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If it were a national sales tax or a VAT, basically it means everyone will pay taxes every time they buy something. Rich fat bastards won't be able shelter their income anymore which is why the uber rich like Kerry will come out vehemontly against something like this (and a lot of repubs I'm sure as well). Also, this would devastate the "tax industry" - tax attorneys and tax accountants will have to learn some new skills or corner something else.
Bottom line, the more you spend the more you pay. Things like food would be exempt just like they are now for state sales tax, so the "poor" would pay virtually nothing (like they currently do).
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 14:14 Post subject:
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Haha.. this would be enough to make me vote Republican.
-Nah-
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Guest
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 14:19 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | I'll believe it when I see it.. The Treasury deptarment is farily powerful in our government.. they won't give up the IRS easily. |
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Mugaaz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3576
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 14:20 Post subject:
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| ATM Banana wrote: | Hah, so basically those who have lots to report won't have to anymore?
nice... so basically rich fat bastards won't have to report crap?
i like it, a LOT.
/sarcasm |
Rich will always pay less in taxes period. Welcome to reality. That's like complaining that power gamers get more loot.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 14:21 Post subject:
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| Mugaaz wrote: | | ATM Banana wrote: | Hah, so basically those who have lots to report won't have to anymore?
nice... so basically rich fat bastards won't have to report crap?
i like it, a LOT.
/sarcasm |
Rich will always pay less in taxes period. Welcome to reality. That's like complaining that power gamers get more loot. |
I think what you mean to say is that the rich pay less than an amount that would reduce their total income to a state-mandated median.
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Guest
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 14:35 Post subject:
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| Nahualli wrote: | Haha.. this would be enough to make me vote Republican.
-Jesus!- |
Bush is a lock.
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Pankrat
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 603
Location: Land of Paranoia
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 14:36 Post subject:
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Actually the rich always pay more in taxes. The top 1% of income earners pay 30% of all the taxes in the current system. The top 10% pay 70% of all the taxes.
Here is an example:
In 2003 the Heinz-Kerrys' total federal tax bill came to $840,500 - or just 15.2 percent of their $5,510,000 household income.
The would-be first lady's tax bill was so low because she sheltered more than half her income - $2,777,000 - in tax-exempt bonds. (national sales tax would disallow these types of shelters).
The Bushes paid $227,000 in federal taxes on a gross 2003 income of $822,126. Their IRS bill amounted to 28 percent of their household income (didn't use as many tax shelters).
Joe Shmoe who made 50K last year probably paid something like 2-4K in Federal income taxes - maybe less if they own a house and have kids.
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Guest
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 14:38 Post subject:
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| Pankrat wrote: | Actually the rich always pay more in taxes. The top 1% of income earners pay 30% of all the taxes in the current system. The top 10% pay 70% of all the taxes.
Here is an example:
In 2003 the Heinz-Kerrys' total federal tax bill came to $840,500 - or just 15.2 percent of their $5,510,000 household income.
The would-be first lady's tax bill was so low because she sheltered more than half her income - $2,777,000 - in tax-exempt bonds. (national sales tax would disallow these types of shelters).
The Bushes paid $227,000 in federal taxes on a gross 2003 income of $822,126. Their IRS bill amounted to 28 percent of their household income (didn't use as many tax shelters).
Joe Shmoe who made 50K last year probably paid something like 2-4K in Federal income taxes - maybe less if they own a house and have kids. |
Yup:)
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 14:48 Post subject:
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| Pankrat wrote: | | Joe Shmoe who made 50K last year probably paid something like 2-4K in Federal income taxes - maybe less if they own a house and have kids. |
Using 2003 tax tables, he'd have paid around $7,500 in Federal tax. If he had 2 kids, a $180,000 mortage at 5%, and payed $3,000/yr in real estate tax, it would be down around $3,500.
The interesting thing about rich people and VAT is that rich people don't necessarily consume in proportion to their income. Savings that accumulate without being spent wouldn't be taxed. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it would have an effect.
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Mugaaz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3576
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Posted: 08/02/04 - 14:57 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: | | Mugaaz wrote: | | ATM Banana wrote: | Hah, so basically those who have lots to report won't have to anymore?
nice... so basically rich fat bastards won't have to report crap?
i like it, a LOT.
/sarcasm |
Rich will always pay less in taxes period. Welcome to reality. That's like complaining that power gamers get more loot. |
I think what you mean to say is that the rich pay less than an amount that would reduce their total income to a state-mandated median. |
All I know is if Heinz-Kerry's bill came to 840k, they earned a lot more than 5.5mil for real.
No one is supposed to take care of you. If you don't understand parts of life that cannot be avoided - then don't b***h that you are getting taken advantage of or that others are doing better than you. Those are the same people who see everyone who's rich as someone's heir or anyone who's in shape as using steroids. In other words - worthless people.
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