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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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 Posted: 05/05/03 - 12:33 Post subject: Rant - Speak English or GET THE f**k OUT OF THE USA
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I was reading a front page article in the NY Times Metro section today, about how Hartford has transformed from the white collar insurance capitol into the most Latino city outside of Texas, California or Florida. One quote really struck a nerve with me:
| Quote: | | Like roughly half of hte other 250 or so Hispanic business owners in Hartford, Mr. Ortiz, who moved here from Ponce,P.R., 18 years ago, speaks only Spanish, but that is all right with him. |
18 years in this country and he cannot speak English, that should be worthy of deportation. What unites America? What joins the Catholic, Protestant, Jew, and wiccan? What do the Russian, Vietnamese, Chinese, Irish, Japanese, German and Polish immigrants all share? How should all Americans be able to communicate with each other? A COMMON LANGUAGE.
Any immigrant group besides the Hispanics, they come to this country and learn English to become Americans and a part of our society. Sure it may take a few years, and the more elderly may never learn more than a few words, but everyone else makes the effort to learn English and integrate into society. They may still speak their native language at home and in ethnic churches and the like, but they learn English.
Not so for many of the Hispanics. They move into their barrios, stick to themselves, and never make the effort to learn English. They come to our country, use its freedom and strong economy to benefit themselves, all while setting up their own foreign nation within our borders.
If you do not want to make the effort to learn English and become an American in every sense of the word - then go back to your 3rd world ghettos and don't come here in the first place. This applies to other ethnic groups as well more recently, especially some of the Chinese and Vietnamese who remain isolated within their ethnic enclaves in California or NY, but the largest problem by far is Hispanics.
*awaits the liberals calling me an ignorant racist*
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Minion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 3474
Location: The Ghetto
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 12:36 Post subject:
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Are the typos and grammar problems in that quote there actually in the newspaper or is that something that just sprouted up due to your lack of adequate typing abilities?
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Karst
Luke Warm
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 128
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 12:37 Post subject:
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Safe to assume you hate Tacos?
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Vio
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 977
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 12:40 Post subject: Re: Rant - Speak English or GET THE f**k OUT OF THE USA
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| Vekril wrote: | I was reading a front page article in the NY Times Metro section today, about how Hartford has transformed from the white collar insurance capitol into the most Latino city outside of Texas, California or Florida. One quote really struck a nerve with me:
| Quote: | | Like roughly half of hte other 250 or so Hispanic business owners in Hartford, Mr. Ortiz, who moved here from Ponce,P.R., 18 years ago, speaks only Spanish, but that is all right with him. |
18 years in this country and he cannot speak English, that should be worthy of deportation. What unites America? What joins the Catholic, Protestant, Jew, and wiccan? What do the Russian, Vietnamese, Chinese, Irish, Japanese, German and Polish immigrants all share? How should all Americans be able to communicate with each other? A COMMON LANGUAGE.
Any immigrant group besides the Hispanics, they come to this country and learn English to become Americans and a part of our society. Sure it may take a few years, and the more elderly may never learn more than a few words, but everyone else makes the effort to learn English and integrate into society. They may still speak their native language at home and in ethnic churches and the like, but they learn English.
Not so for many of the Hispanics. They move into their barrios, stick to themselves, and never make the effort to learn English. They come to our country, use its freedom and strong economy to benefit themselves, all while setting up their own foreign nation within our borders.
If you do not want to make the effort to learn English and become an American in every sense of the word - then go back to your 3rd world ghettos and don't come here in the first place. This applies to other ethnic groups as well more recently, especially some of the Chinese and Vietnamese who remain isolated within their ethnic enclaves in California or NY, but the largest problem by far is Hispanics.
*awaits the liberals calling me an ignorant racist* |
Isn't the US the land of the free, speech and what not!?!? Why should he have to speak the way you want him too?
Although I agree with you if you want to live in a country with the main language being English you should learn it but hey it's all about freedom to do what you want
Last edited by Vio on 05/05/03 - 12:45; edited 1 time in total
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 12:42 Post subject:
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Nope, I love fajitas and tacos - allergic to beans so I cannot eat burritos or a lot of other Mexican food, but I do love what I can eat.
I have nothing against Hispanic immigrants in general. Many are hard working people who contribute greatly to this economy (except the lazy Peurto Ricans, my Cuban neighbors in Jersey City used to go off on how PRs were so lazy and made other Hispanics look bad). I am just a firm believer that if you come to America, you should become part of our society, and English is one common bond every US citizen and permanent resident should share.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 12:45 Post subject:
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America, love it or leave it.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 12:51 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | I have nothing against Hispanic immigrants in general. Many are hard working people who contribute greatly to this economy (except the lazy Peurto Ricans, my Cuban neighbors in Jersey City used to go off on how PRs were so lazy and made other Hispanics look bad). |
If you consider 5% 'many' I guess.
I do have a problem with immigrants and desperately wish we'd stop accepting other countries' trash. Close the gates, man, before it's too late.
And I hear ya on the whole speak English part, it's one of immigrants' more annoying traits along with not liking to shower too often.
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nasbenu
Rookie
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 57
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 13:06 Post subject:
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I live in West Hartford, an upper-middle class suburb of Hartford and the spanish, or should I say Puerto Rican, population is huge. It's also one of the poorest in the state primarily because of the unwillingness to adapt to traditional american society. Every other Latino culture, wether its Columbian, Peruvian, Dominican or whatever, when they immagrate here do their best to adapt to our society, while maintaining their own cultural values, while most Puerto Rican's, at least from my expeirince, don't care about adapting while enjoying the benifits of American citizenship.
My wife is half Columbian and half Puerto Rican, raised by her mother, who immagrated here almost 30 years ago from Columbia, raised 4 children on her own, has never been on state assistance, and speaks English fluently, while her Father who was born in Hartford, took off to Puerto Rico when she was 2, and is an all around dirtbag, can't put more than a few english words together.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 13:07 Post subject:
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I agree. I'm not sure if I'm a conservative or a liberal, but I do believe in making an effort. If the language of the country is English, then you speak English. You can damn bet that if I ever moved to another country, I'd sure as hell learn to speak the language, and that would be all I spoke. Either that or hire an interpreter on your own dime.
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compusmack
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 6354
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 13:15 Post subject:
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IF YOU LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME YOU SHOULD BE FORCED TO LEARN THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE.
I am strongly against allowing extended visas/greencards/citizenship for people that will not/cannot learn English. You are totally worthless if you do not make the effort to learn the language.
The United States is plagued by immigration abuse, and the worst of it comes from Mexico. There should be a mass roundup of all illegals in this country, we should deport their asses immediately. If you want to come to this country, do it legally.
Furthermore, I believe the born in U.S. rule needs to be recreated to stop the abuse (running to the border and having the child in the U.S., etc). If the mother wasn't a citizen, the child shouldn't be either.
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 13:19 Post subject:
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My Mom is Brazilian, and learned English her first year in this country. My Dad is American, and he learned Portuguese his first year in Brazil. They both learned Spanish when we lived in Panama. It's common courtesy to try and speak the native language of your host country. Living in the US for 18 years without learning to speak English is inexcusable.
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Haroun Zehra
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1235
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 13:31 Post subject:
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I thought that people *had* to learn English as a requirement of citizenship... this is what they taught me in my American Civics class in 8th grade.
When did this change?
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 13:43 Post subject:
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| Haroun Zehra wrote: | I thought that people *had* to learn English as a requirement of citizenship... this is what they taught me in my American Civics class in 8th grade.
When did this change? |
You do need to know english, as well as take an oath and such for citizenship. There are millions of people living here illegally, though, or on visa.
Edit: Oh, and don't Puerto Ricans have US citizenship by birth?
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r00typooh
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5178
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 13:52 Post subject:
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Vekril, i agree 100% with everything you've said here... give em hell
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Nobunaga
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 932
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 13:56 Post subject:
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Simple Question. How does the inability of these immigrants to speak English affect you directly?
Their inability to speak the dominant language in the US simply deprives them and not you. They won't be able to compete against you for white collar jobs and will be subjected to low wage jobs-Generally manual labor work that non-immigrants wouldn't want. Anyway, It's their choice whether or not they want to be homogenized into white anglo society but they simply choose not too. Unlike you, at least they pay taxes and are more productive for society than most of you are currently.
^^
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 14:01 Post subject:
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| Nobunaga wrote: | Simple Question. How does the inability of these immigrants to speak English affect you directly?
Their inability to speak the dominant language in the US simply deprives them and not you. They won't be able to compete against you for white collar jobs and will be subjected to low wage jobs-Generally manual labor work that non-immigrants wouldn't want. Anyway, It's their choice whether or not they want to be homogenized into white anglo society but they simply choose not too. Unlike you, at least they pay taxes and are more productive for society than most of you are currently.
^^ |
Actually it does. Special translators are required in schools, courts, and virtually all other governmental institutions. Our tax dollars pay for them. Although admittedly, they also provide jobs for the translators.
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Kbarr
Guest
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 14:06 Post subject:
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Vek, get over it.
As long as they don't know english they will be self regulated to enclaves you can totaly avoid. Its easy.
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 14:11 Post subject:
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| Nobunaga wrote: | Simple Question. How does the inability of these immigrants to speak English affect you directly?
Their inability to speak the dominant language in the US simply deprives them and not you. They won't be able to compete against you for white collar jobs and will be subjected to low wage jobs-Generally manual labor work that non-immigrants wouldn't want. |
So you support having an illiterate underclass? Personally, I'd rather see them become educated, productive members of society. But then, I'm not a liberal elitist.
| Nobunaga wrote: | | Anyway, It's their choice whether or not they want to be homogenized into white anglo society but they simply choose not too. |
They chose to become part of "white anglo saxon" (redundant) society by coming to a "white anglo saxon" (redundant) nation. As in my previous post, it's common courtesy to make an effort to speak the language (and respect the customs) of your host nation.
| Nobunaga wrote: | | Unlike you, at least they pay taxes and are more productive for society than most of you are currently. |
I pay quite a bit in taxes off of my salary that reflects my productivity. The taxes I pay probably exceed the value of your unemployment checks. Since you're making ridiculous assumptions, I figured I would too.
^^
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Nobunaga
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 932
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 14:15 Post subject:
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Ah, but the tax dollars spent on bi-lingual education and other services are quite minimal when you compare the amount of taxes paid and the net output gained by their production in society. Anyway, most people such as Vek either don't pay taxes or hardly pay any so this shouldn't concern them in this argument.
^^
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 14:18 Post subject:
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| Nobunaga wrote: | Ah, but the tax dollars spent on bi-lingual education and other services are quite minimal when you compare the amount of taxes paid and the net output gained by their production in society. Anyway, most people such as Vek either don't pay taxes or hardly pay any so this shouldn't concern them in this argument.
^^ |
So how does having a worker who speaks spanish and requires a translator yeild a higher net productivity for society than a worker who speaks english and requires no translator?
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 14:21 Post subject:
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It doesn't, but let the bleeding hearts think that way.
Unemployment is at 6%, but yeah keep sending in more help 
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Mental_Hernia
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3336
Location: Texas
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 14:24 Post subject:
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Welcome back Vek
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 14:36 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | It doesn't, but let the bleeding hearts think that way.
Unemployment is at 6%, but yeah keep sending in more help :roll: |
The irony is that liberals constantly complain about a bad economy, but at the same time depend on it to successfully push through their quasi-socialist policies. I think it's funny that their only hope for a successful 2004 campaign is a poor economy. Therefore, all the democrats are crossing their fingers that you unemployed folks don't get a job for a while.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 14:45 Post subject:
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I'm not unemployed, I've been with the same company for 7 years actually.
*shrug*
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 14:48 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | I'm not unemployed, I've been with the same company for 7 years actually.
*shrug* |
Wasn't implying you.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 14:51 Post subject:
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Well ok, but you quoted me and said 'you unemployed folks.'
I thought you were implicating me 
edit: Although I'm quite the Bush hater, I'd choose a more normal unemployment rate over a new president.
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lotek
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1598
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 15:01 Post subject:
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| Kbarr wrote: | Vek, get over it.
As long as they don't know english they will be self regulated to enclaves you can totaly avoid. Its easy. |
yup, and learn spanish, then get lots of cheap labor.
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NickPSH
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5680
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 15:01 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | then go back to your 3rd world ghettos and don't come here in the first place. This applies to other ethnic groups as well more recently, especially some of the Chinese and Vietnamese who remain isolated within their ethnic enclaves in California or NY, but the largest problem by far is Hispanics |
Yes, i'm glad your research has allowed us to see that all who do not speak english live in 3rd world ghettos.
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Nobunaga
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 932
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 15:03 Post subject:
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NWS, I'm far from liberal and actually a registered republican who believes in a fiscally responsible,streamlined govt but still has some socially democratic views. The foundation of what you deem to be a "host nation" is actually comprised of immigrants. We are called a melting pot society because our foundation was based upon a fusion of cultures and societies from around the world and not merely of the white,anglo-saxon Christian variety. And how does someone not being able to speak english affect you personally if you don't live in their neighborhood and never get in contact with them?
BTW, the net productivity jab was initially addressed to Vekril since he's an unemployed law school drop out , who doesn't pay any taxes and who owes a shit load in govt. student loans.
Anyway, have to leave my office now but fun discussion!
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12940
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 05/05/03 - 15:04 Post subject:
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ya know..it'd be nice to have an "official" language here..English being the official language, but not necessary
I just think it's plain rude of them not to at least try.
When I lived in Germany as a child, I was learning German, and it was damn fun to be immersed in another language and community.
When I travel, I try to pick up and learn simple phrases, and would try to learn any language if I were to take up residency.
So, to me, they're rude for not trying. And that means I won't have an interest in anything they may complain about or demand from our government, as far as services and the like goes..shame on them.
I wish I didn't learn spanish in school. I would rather have learned Japanese or the rest of the German I was getting in school.(only learned numbers, colors, and simple things..)
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