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Pags
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3260
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 Posted: 08/19/05 - 23:26 Post subject: Pray for NorthWest Airlines
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If the mechanics go on strike, pilots are next on board to get screwed, then the company goes bankrupt :(
= 30 years of my dads pension = bye bye
:(
edit: I always forget the link.... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166250,00.html
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Pags
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3260
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 00:15 Post subject:
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They striked :(
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Ishmael
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 4446
Location: The US of A
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 00:19 Post subject:
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| Pags wrote: | They striked  |
sowwy!
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Pags
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3260
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 00:23 Post subject:
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I was talking to my dad two weeks ago and he mentioned the mechanics were going to strike. He was saying NWA was also looking to cut pilots pay an additional 24% (to the previous 16% pay cut they already took(i think), plus make them work 20 more hours a month w/o overtime pay, and cut vacation time. And if the pilots don't agree w/ that (which they won't, strike), which means bankruptcy (ultimately) for NWA.
Last edited by Pags on 08/20/05 - 00:45; edited 1 time in total
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Ishmael
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 4446
Location: The US of A
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 00:26 Post subject:
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| Pags wrote: | I was talking to my dad two weeks ago and he mentioned the mechanics were going to strike. He was saying NWA was also looking to cut pilots pay an additional 24% (to the previous 16% pay cut they already took(i think), plus make them work 20 more hours a week w/o overtime pay, and cut vacation time. And if the pilots don't agree w/ that (which they won't, strike), which means bankruptcy (ultimately) for NWA.
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Doesn;t this happen fairly often with airlines? I think I've heard of it happening at least a couple times before. Why are the owners, or managers, or whatever so stupid?
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Pags
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3260
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 00:34 Post subject:
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| Ishmael wrote: | | Pags wrote: | I was talking to my dad two weeks ago and he mentioned the mechanics were going to strike. He was saying NWA was also looking to cut pilots pay an additional 24% (to the previous 16% pay cut they already took(i think), plus make them work 20 more hours a week w/o overtime pay, and cut vacation time. And if the pilots don't agree w/ that (which they won't, strike), which means bankruptcy (ultimately) for NWA.
:cry: |
Doesn;t this happen fairly often with airlines? I think I've heard of it happening at least a couple times before. Why are the owners, or managers, or whatever so stupid? :( |
B/c they're greedy sons of b*****s that don't want lower wages, just like my dad :P
Not 'often' but its not rare, and if it hurts one company bad enough it'll just delcare bankruptcy. If one company goes down, others are going to follow for the same reasons.
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Paden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 9362
Location: North CAROLINA!
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 00:42 Post subject:
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Thats why I hate the idea of letting a company hold your future in there hands.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 01:48 Post subject:
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unions are just a way to force employers to pay people more than they are worth ... i hope NWA rapes the unions to the point that they all break up .....
unions really are the enemy of the consumer and the ally of a hand full of the nations employees....
every time i walk into a super market and see the "full time" employee making $30 an hour plus full benefits for their whole family , stacking cans on a shelf or mopping the floor i think about the higher prices i must be getting charged .....
NWA airlines loses over 4 million each and every single day they are in business .... they have no choice but to impose harsh pay cuts to get them in line with what the rest of the industry pays it's employees .... its f*****g crazy for the people who work there not to understand that they should be getting paid the same as the rest of the industry , doubly so when the company loses 4 million a day . not like they have extra cash laying about that they can just give who ever asks for it ..........
im so tired of unions b******t of "everyone deserves a livable wage and health care" that's a bunch of f*****g shit , no one "deserves" shit. menial jobs like stacking cans and mopping floors should not be paid like someone who busted their ass to get their masters in business .....
Last edited by Brash on 08/20/05 - 11:24; edited 2 times in total
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16395
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 01:52 Post subject:
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| Brash wrote: | unions are just a way to force employers to pay people more than they are worth ... i hope NWA rapes the unions to the point that they all break up .....
unions really are the enemy of the consumer....
every time i walk into a super market and see the "full time" employee making $30 an hour plus full benefits for their whole family , stacking cans on a shelf or mopping the floor i think about the higher prices i must be getting charged .....
NWA airlines loses over 4 million each and every single day they are in business .... they have no choice but to impose harsh pay cuts to get them in line with what the rest of the industry pays it's employees .... its f*****g crazy for the people who work there not to understand that they should be getting paid the same as the rest of the industry , doubly so when the company loses 4 million a day . not like they have extra cash laying about they they can just give who ever asks for it .......... |
Yeah ok but then how else are you gonna get people to take s****y jobs like these?
Garbage men are well paid because every day they come home smelling like garbage. Not to mention it's a slightly hazardous occupation.
I guess wth the economy the way it is now we need more jobs.
and let's not forget to employ the mexicans. they'll work these jobs for half price!
s***w it.
bring in scabbers, I wanna fly to Cancun for 50$.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 01:56 Post subject:
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dude there are people lining up to take these jobs at lower wages . the only reason they get more is because they threaten to quit/strike all at once and picket the business .....
there is no shortage of poor people willing to work for $10 an hour ......
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16395
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 01:58 Post subject:
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yeah. i guess it's pretty obsolete.
still. why not work late shift at jack in the box for 10$ an hour.
1) don't break your back
2) free food
3) i might tip you
4) smoke pot on job
amazing!
i hate thinking about the economy.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 02:04 Post subject:
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btw my girlfriends cousin is a NWA mechanic and he was telling us most of them will have hard time getting new jobs because their skills are not transferable . not because skills with planes don't pass on to other areas but because most of them have very specialized jobs like stand there and check 10 bolts on every plane that comes in to make sure if they are tight ...... he makes over $80,000 a year plus full benefits and a pension to check that series of bolts .... I know its a stretch but i think you could find someone to do that for $50,000 and no benefits, what ya think ?
btw the benefits work out to 76 cents per dollar made an hour so he really gets paid like $140,000 a year to check 10 bolts .... how much do you think that costs the consumer in escalated ticket prices?
ill stand by my belief that unions are only abused to make sure people get paid more than they should for a given job ....
Last edited by Brash on 08/20/05 - 11:28; edited 2 times in total
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16395
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 02:07 Post subject:
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well, unions are pretty much going by the wayside.
but what about the garbage men brash, WHAT ABOUT THEM?
hehe.
Dan just got a longshoring job.
Talk about a kickass union. They get paid 20$ an hour to watch training videos. A men make 100+ a year plus full benefits. But that's after 5 years or so of paying your dues. Before that the benefits aren't full.
but still...
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Soriak
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 952
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 02:08 Post subject:
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| Quote: |
im so tired of unions b******t of "everyone deserves a livable wage and health care" that's a bunch of f*****g shit , no one "deserves" shit. menial jobs like stacking cans and mopping floors should not be paid like someone who busted their ass to get their masters in business .....
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Yeah, f**k those walmart employees making $100k and more.
edit: I do agree with your main point though... unions aren't necessarily bad, but they often go too far. Some benefits should be provided to an employee, and the company should be forced to provide reasonable safety in hazardeous environments.
Last edited by Soriak on 08/20/05 - 02:13; edited 1 time in total
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 02:12 Post subject:
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| atarom wrote: | well, unions are pretty much going by the wayside.
but what about the garbage men brash, WHAT ABOUT THEM?
hehe.
Dan just got a longshoring job.
Talk about a kickass union. They get paid 20$ an hour to watch training videos. |
im sure there is no shortage of people making 8 an hour at the pizza hut that would be willing to be a garbage man for $20 with no benefits if ya let them. garbage man has no real skill factor its just a undesirable job .... the union knows the public doesn't want a strike and endless tons of trash everywhere for weeks so they abuse that and so garbage men make 30 some bucks plus full benefit's ....
f**k the garbage trucks around here have robotic arms so they never have to lift even a single can in a day .... only undesirable part is prolly cleaning out the back at the end of the day .
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16395
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 02:16 Post subject:
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yeah all i'm sayin is that there are some s****y jobs that people should get paid decently to do.
Not all union jobs may fit this, but some certainly do.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 02:23 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Yeah, f**k those walmart employees making $100k and more. |
walmart pays people what the free market makes them pay . if they cant get enough employees to to run the store they pay more until they are fully staffed .....just like every other non union company out there.
if the union got in walmart it would cost us all allot more to shop there and allot of poor people would not be able to afford the things they need. so whats more important . good prices for the hundred"s" of millions of people who shop there every week or artificially inflated wages for the hundred thousand that work there ? keep in mind that 1/3 the country shops at a walmart once a week .... this includes allot of people who can barely feed their famlliess so of prices go up 5% it will have a dramatic impact upon thier lives ...
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 02:28 Post subject:
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| atarom wrote: | yeah all i'm sayin is that there are some s****y jobs that people should get paid decently to do.
Not all union jobs may fit this, but some certainly do. |
let the free market set these wages , if the pay is to low that no one wants to do that shit job for that little money , than no one will do it and they will have to raise wages .... if there is an endless stream of uneducated/unskilled workers willing to do a certain job(like stack cans or mop floors) then the wages will go down because the business owners can fully staff their businesses without paying higher wages.... this how the world works outside of unions .
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Plat4PoP
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 14376
Location: USA
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 02:52 Post subject:
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| Pags wrote: | | Ishmael wrote: | | Pags wrote: | I was talking to my dad two weeks ago and he mentioned the mechanics were going to strike. He was saying NWA was also looking to cut pilots pay an additional 24% (to the previous 16% pay cut they already took(i think), plus make them work 20 more hours a week w/o overtime pay, and cut vacation time. And if the pilots don't agree w/ that (which they won't, strike), which means bankruptcy (ultimately) for NWA.
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Doesn;t this happen fairly often with airlines? I think I've heard of it happening at least a couple times before. Why are the owners, or managers, or whatever so stupid? |
B/c they're greedy sons of b*****s that don't want lower wages, just like my dad 
Not 'often' but its not rare, and if it hurts one company bad enough it'll just delcare bankruptcy. If one company goes down, others are going to follow for the same reasons. |
Actually no... if one goes down the others prosper because they can raise prices and pick up extra customers. 1 or 2 Airlines going bankrupt will help the other Airlines, not hurt them.
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Plat4PoP
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 14376
Location: USA
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 02:54 Post subject:
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| atarom wrote: | yeah. i guess it's pretty obsolete.
still. why not work late shift at jack in the box for 10$ an hour.
1)
2)
3) i might tip you
4)
amazing!
i hate thinking about the economy. |
People tip the Jack in the Crack people?
I've tipped the Sonic Girls before but never any other fast food.
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principessa
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 09:22 Post subject:
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Down here in southern AR, there aren't any unions. Ezzan said that when they tried to unionize the defense plant he worked at way back, management said that if the workers wanted to unionize, then management would just move the plant to Mississippi, where the labor was even cheaper
WM, sadly, remains the only way that MANY people down here can afford to dress their kids and supply them for school. Last weekend, WM offered 70 page spiral notebooks for ten cents, no limit. That's a boon to a lot of the families down here. The other thing is that WM places themselves in areas where other stores fear to tread--or where other stores find it cost-prohibitive to set up shop: rural America.
WM has a unique position--we can't live with them (some of their policies, at any rate) and we can't live without them.
On another note, I love NWA. It's almost the only airline I have flown for the last five years. Ontime A LOT, decent pricing, and I manage to always get an exit row seat :p
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 08/20/05 - 11:22 Post subject:
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i think delta was able to get rid of all the unions but the pilots union.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 08/23/05 - 11:38 Post subject:
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i am amazed at how few problems they have had with the replacement workers . not running at 100% but they are running at like 96% with less than half the mechanics and all unfamiliar with the surroundings. my guess is they will only get better over the weeks as they get more comfortable with whats going on around them and some of the old ones who can't afford to be on strike that long will cross the line and bring them back up to 100%. union or no union, people need to feed their kids and they will cross the line at some point. like i said before , most of their skills aren't really transferable to other occupations so they have no choice.
anyways the fact that they are able to run at 96% with less than half the people, which are all trainees , shows there really is some fat to be trimmed here ......
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Pags
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3260
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Posted: 08/23/05 - 11:43 Post subject:
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Well NorthWest was ready for the strike, and had already hired on like 1,500 tempoary mechanics or something like that. But yeah they seem to be running at normal pace for the most part..
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 08/23/05 - 11:44 Post subject:
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| principessa wrote: | Down here in southern AR, there aren't any unions. Ezzan said that when they tried to unionize the defense plant he worked at way back, management said that if the workers wanted to unionize, then management would just move the plant to Mississippi, where the labor was even cheaper
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my girlfriend used to work at a hotel that was about to unionize but at the last moment the hotel gave them an offer they couldn't refuse . all full time employees got a few dollar raise and health insurance . sounded great until a year later they hired more part timers and reduced every ones hours to like 2 below full time .... managers were fired if they let to many people work the extra 2 hours ...
kinda f****d up really
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Pags
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3260
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Posted: 08/23/05 - 11:47 Post subject:
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| principessa wrote: | | On another note, I love NWA. It's almost the only airline I have flown for the last five years. Ontime A LOT, decent pricing, and I manage to always get an exit row seat :p |
8)
My dad has probably piloted your plane before :P
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 08/23/05 - 11:48 Post subject:
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| Brash wrote: | i am amazed at how few problems they have had with the replacement workers . not running at 100% but they are running at like 96% with less than half the mechanics and all unfamiliar with the surroundings. my guess is they will only get better over the weeks as they get more comfortable with whats going on around them and some of the old ones who can't afford to be on strike that long will cross the line and bring them back up to 100%. union or no union, people need to feed their kids and they will cross the line at some point. like i said before , most of their skills aren't really transferable to other occupations so they have no choice.
anyways the fact that they are able to run at 96% with less than half the people, which are all trainees , shows there really is some fat to be trimmed here ...... |
This is short-term. You can stress a joint for a second or two at a time, but that doesn't mean your knee is going to hold up under pressure for 72 hours straight.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 08/24/05 - 10:47 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | | Brash wrote: | i am amazed at how few problems they have had with the replacement workers . not running at 100% but they are running at like 96% with less than half the mechanics and all unfamiliar with the surroundings. my guess is they will only get better over the weeks as they get more comfortable with whats going on around them and some of the old ones who can't afford to be on strike that long will cross the line and bring them back up to 100%. union or no union, people need to feed their kids and they will cross the line at some point. like i said before , most of their skills aren't really transferable to other occupations so they have no choice.
anyways the fact that they are able to run at 96% with less than half the people, which are all trainees , shows there really is some fat to be trimmed here ...... |
This is short-term. You can stress a joint for a second or two at a time, but that doesn't mean your knee is going to hold up under pressure for 72 hours straight. |
that analogy implies that your joint is as strong as it will ever be. I Imagine this is not true with the replacement mechanics . I bet they are running at a fraction of their true ability/productivity because of the unfamiliar surroundings and the fact that they are all really trainees right now. i would wager that every day they get more and more comfortable and will do a better job faster ... Not to mention in a week or two some of the old mechanics will cross the picket line because they need to feed their kids and make mortgage payments.
I think it really comes down to wither or not NWA can keep things at this level for 2 weeks to a month.
thing that is kinda messed up here is the mechanics have nothing to gain here at all ... if NWA fails here they go bankrupt and mechanics still are f****d .... cept that way , anyone who owns NWA stock loses everything .........
they should have understood that an airline that loses 4 million a day and loses $27 for every passenger they fly, simply can't afford to pay the mechanics 25% more than the rest of the industry pays ... and why are the custodians/janitors getting paid 40,000 a year plus full benefits for their families(around $70,000 total compensation) when you can outsource this for 1/3 to 1/2 that .... we are talking about people who empty trash cans and mop ......
they best offer the union gave them was some package that included savings from the lose they took a while ago and the rest of the cut they were going to take would "snap their pay back" to what they get now in two years.... what benefit is that two NWA and share holders ? is a half a band aid for a gaping wound and in two years you are right back where you started ..... talk about a worthless offer.
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Eurotrash
Luke Warm
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 101
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Posted: 08/24/05 - 10:59 Post subject:
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Hey Brash, since your girlfriend has a direct bearing on the economy of the US and the planet, why don't you ask her what's going to happen to oil prices? I am sure she will have some very valuable insight into the subject given to her by working in a hotel or as a mechanic.
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Brash
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 3958
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Posted: 08/24/05 - 11:11 Post subject:
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| Eurotrash wrote: | | Hey Brash, since your girlfriend has a direct bearing on the economy of the US and the planet. |
what are you talking about ?
think the only time she was even mentioned is quoted bellow and she is only loosely tide to that paragraph .
if ya want to insult me i know you can do better than that man.
| Quote: | | btw my girlfriends cousin is a NWA mechanic and he was telling us most of them will have hard time getting new jobs because their skills are not transferable . not because skills with planes don't pass on to other areas but because most of them have very specialized jobs like stand there and check 10 bolts on every plane that comes in to make sure if they are tight ...... he makes over $80,000 a year plus full benefits and a pension to check that series of bolts .... I know its a stretch but i think you could find someone to do that for $50,000 and no benefits, what ya think ? |
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