|
|
| Author |
Message |
Minion
Guest
|
 Posted: 10/29/02 - 15:12 Post subject: Playin orc as support for a team
|
|
|
First of all this is not a solo strategy, and you run the risk of getting owned hard by a rush because you tech early (which is why it's best suited for large teams.)
It should be noted that I do not play orc specifically... I play on random and occasionally get orc, this is what I usually do though...
General build
- 3 peon to gold
- 1 peon builds alter
- 1 peon builds orc burrow
- Queue 2 peons, send one to lumber
- Once second peon pops out build a mill
- Once burrow and alter complete, send one orc to gold and one to lumber
- Make a far seer
- By this point you should have 90 lumber and plenty of gold, if not just wait for it
- Upgrade stronghold
-Send farseers dogs out to scout, or alternativly just level your hero by himself. Far seer can take on low creeps without problems.
-Once stronghold is upgraded build two spirit buildings, as soon as they're done, train first tech levels for both witch doctors and shamans.
- Build a couple more burrows when/if you got cash
- Train Blademaster
- Upgrade to Fortress
- Once your casting training is done, start pumping out witch doctors on one spirit lodge, shamans on the other. Only build until your fortress is complete.
- Once fortress is complete, upgrade casting techs for shamans/witch doctors for the last time
- When training is done, continue to pump out witch doctors and shamans
You've now got the best support army in the game, I typically just use mad point and click skills for bloodlust but setting it on auto works alright as well. Have witch doctors go into battle behind the rest of the army and set down healing wards for melee units.
Easy shit. Again, works best with large team, and again, I'm not the greatest player out there. Anyone who can improve the build feel free.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
 |
WhiteWidow
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 975
|
|
Posted: 10/29/02 - 22:33 Post subject:
|
|
|
tomarrow when i have enough energy i'll re-write the entire strategy correctly. 
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
ranth
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 184
|
|
Posted: 10/30/02 - 18:11 Post subject:
|
|
|
bah.
farseer wolves are stupid waste of points. FS is all about farsight and CL.
he also makes a far better support hero than main.
best main hero for orcs is by far the TC because he can raze caster lines and can take out tier 1 units like no tomorrow....his aura is golden for team games too.
should really pump out about 4 grunts first before teching to support your teammates should a rush occur...you otherwise are falling far behind on production...the early casters wont make much a difference in that 3 minute window.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
ranth
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 184
|
|
Posted: 10/30/02 - 18:12 Post subject:
|
|
|
i would like to add that it is important to tech early as orcs....but you need some meat to take the hits else your caster line will more often than not get raped away from your allies tank armies and you will be f****d.
edit: main priority on team game with FS is sight. f**k everything else...you need that recon(its the best in the game by far once you get at least lvl 2 sight)
i just wish orc AA was worth something.....its godawful now that shammies were nerfed to shit.
the HH can take a few hits now but the slowed cooldown time is ass.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Minion
Guest
|
|
Posted: 10/31/02 - 05:11 Post subject:
|
|
|
Bleh sight? Granted I probably put too much faith into my teamates but sight?!
Like 3 out of 5 WC3 players are night elves or undead. As NE or UD you should ALWAYS be making a shade pit or leaving owl scouts all over the place.
Typically the reason why I always rotate between wolves and CL is so that I won't have to level with grunts.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
ranth
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 184
|
|
Posted: 10/31/02 - 07:42 Post subject:
|
|
|
wolves has no return value mid-late game except free exp for enemy heros because they suck fucking ass.
sight is actually the FS's BEST ability. FS 2 can show entire bases, and FS 3 can cover an entire map in two casts....its the ultimate recon because your enemies dont always know they have just been scanned.
you need farsight because you need to know asap when that enemy is going for air so you can kill him before he can mass and fuck you up the ass since orc AA consists of a used condom, 3 quadrapalegic hookers, and a 3 week old raw cabbage.
as a secondary ability CL >>>> wolves because CL is the ONLY hero ability for orc that can damage air.....and as we all know....orc AA consists of a used condom, 3 quadrapalegic hookers, and a 3 week old raw cabbage.
if you really dont want to get grunts (why not? they are the best tier1 units in the game) then i suggest going immediate double hero for exping...get TC first and FS second...one right after the other....of course if you get rushed you might as well bend over and take it up the ass because you will be f****d.
only thing i dont like about orc is no early healing....you are basically forced to blow the 150 or 250 for a group healing scroll so that you maintain your tank advantage with your army early game.....thats a lot of cash.
Last edited by ranth on 10/31/02 - 08:07; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
ranth
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 184
|
|
Posted: 10/31/02 - 07:46 Post subject:
|
|
|
owls f*****g suck for NE now btw...i feel so sorry for them....esp since i play UD nowadays....
of course as orc you should have a tag along peon with your army because orc is all about forcing them to fight on your turf(see stasis ward ownage)....so you tower up just outside their base with a standing army and bring in the catapults(which wonderfully enough come from barracks....
its an orc modification of the NE AP rush strategy, but a lot harder to break because of the lasting power of orc units in general.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
ranth
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 184
|
|
Posted: 10/31/02 - 07:57 Post subject:
|
|
|
i just wish that orc heros complimented each other better. i see no reason for them to have two heros which are in most accounts the same damn hero (BM and TC)....this is yet another reason i feel UD are superior to orc..
BM with crit3 is really fun and he is a great hero if you can get him to lvl 5 at least, but the TC fills a bigger more important role for orcs in general with that aura of his, as well as shockwave. stomp is also really nice if an enemy went necros since stomp3 basically sends a giant "fuck you!" to skels(course the same can be said for BM bladestorm except bladestorm is harder to pull off correctly)
its so funny when you have a lvl 6+ TC with an ankh of reincarnation and a potion of rejuv or 2.
anyways heres the build i usually used...it allows for a quick early army that has lasting power throughout game:
5 peons to gold
queue 3 peons
first peon out--->build barracks
second peon out--->build burrow
queue up 3 more peons(target to wood)
third peon out--->wood
burrow peon will finish -->build altar
barracks finishes--->build burrow2
queue up 1 grunt
altar finishes--->peon to wood
queue up TC
queue up grunt2
queue up grunt3
1 peon off wood-->build war mill
burrow2 peon to wood
queue up grunt4
grunt4 will pop shortly after TC pops. go creep.
money from first creep use to upgrade to stronghold
warmill finishes-->upgrade orc attack1
peon off wood-->burrow3
here's where things start to break down. either tech for casters or pump out HH..depends on enemies.
i dont like that with orc you need to choose between shammies and docs early game even with what i consider mandantory the double-shaman buildings....with stasis boost i now get docs first and about 4 shammies later.
oh well...it just isnt as smooth a transition from mid to late game as with some other races.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Minion
Guest
|
|
Posted: 10/31/02 - 13:49 Post subject:
|
|
|
eh I like blademaster because he's great for hero harassment with wind walk.
Also wtf do owls suck ass? They're better than shades because the only way to kill them is by destroying the tree. Even if that happens, so what? Obviously you know where your enemy is and it didn't take anything but mana.
Also, your build order is good but it's practically begging for a ghoul rush. First thing I do in a 1v1 game is send my starting ghoul to the enemy base and let him try to fight it off with peons.
Going burrow -> alter first helps prevent early rushing problems.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
ranth
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 184
|
|
Posted: 10/31/02 - 14:40 Post subject:
|
|
|
er? play version 1.03 yet? all you need to do is smack the tree with the owl on it once with a peon or ghoul ...this kills the owl.
and my build is the *fastest* way to get grunts out, and only delays the hero by about 10 seconds....
if someone ghoul rushes you all you need to do is put your wood workers in a couple burrows (which you should have placed strategically close to your buildings/mine)
wind walk is great to kill off peons....heros take so long to kill with a lone unit though....i dunno...seems like a waste of time.
wind walk into a town with bladestorm is great too....for instance if a NE player is massing chims just sneak into his base....bladestorm the chim roosts, then windwalk/port out.... also great for tower killing.
but TC is still better haha =p
*edit*
shades are wayyy better than owls even if owls didnt suck so much ass like they do right now....why? shades can be set to follow around enemy armies so you can always set up ambushes etc....
and if you want to get an altar out before a barracks....dont go burrow-->altar....thats a waste of time since burrows build so fast...better to go altar-->burrow(with two peons of course....second delays building burrow till altar is about halfway complete)
also...as UD...sending your starting ghoul to harass will slow down your build and set you behind the enemy by perhaps 1-2 minutes(assuming they are fucktards and know what they are doing)...thats a LOT of time..
a lone ghoul is not a threat at all except to perhaps NE....but once that hero pops you will lose the ghoul...which is very very bad as early UD.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Minion
Guest
|
|
Posted: 10/31/02 - 20:37 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Quote: | | once that hero pops you will lose the ghoul... |
That's my point man. With your build, you have no hero or even an alter by the time the ghoul starts attackin your peons. Baracks is hardly fast building, and neither are grunts, if you make a burrow early though you can simply burrow your peons and waste the ghoul early on.
Regarding shades, anyone who's bright enough to stroll over to a goblin merchant and buy a gem of trueseeing has pretty much eliminated your use for shades. This doesn't happen a whole lot, but it still doesn't make shades infinitely reliable. The items you can buy from goblin merchants are drastically under-rated in my opinion. A couple scrolls of healing can be the difference between a successful attack and a waste of an entire army. Regardless of the price, it's worth it in my opinion.
Also, I did not realize all you had to do was attack a tree now, you're right, that sucks ass. :(
Edit: Forgot, the problem with the "early burrow" thing I was talking about can be solved by using your starting peons to build, rather than sending all 5 to mine gold then waiting for more units to build before you start making buildings. Just my opinion but I think earlier buildings are more useful than early gold
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
ranth
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 184
|
|
Posted: 11/01/02 - 07:20 Post subject:
|
|
|
if a UD player rushes with the first ghoul i will have a burrow up in time as defense...
if it is a larger map then i will also have a finished barracks up with a grunt being trained....
you are right about the gems of true seeing....but shades are better than owls because you can always run them away....and not everyone will have a gem of true seeing....while everyone WILL have a peon/ghoul to knock out an owl.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Minion
Guest
|
|
Posted: 11/01/02 - 08:39 Post subject:
|
|
|
I just tried to kill an owl with a peon and it didn't work.
Only my ghouls could target trees, but it only took one hit from a ghoul to make it go away. Still usefull, just not as good as it used to be.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
ranth
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 184
|
|
Posted: 11/01/02 - 12:17 Post subject:
|
|
|
hmm only ghouls can do this?
well thats f*****g gay.
not like UD arent on the verge of being overpowered anyways....this totally rapes NE recon
oh well i hate elves anyways hahahaha.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
ranth
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 184
|
|
Posted: 11/01/02 - 12:18 Post subject:
|
|
|
anyways if u or anyone else wants a game i play US East
name is
disconnectkid
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Minion
Guest
|
|
Posted: 11/01/02 - 19:12 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Maybe it's because undead peons can't harvest lumber, I haven't tried with any other races but no normal units (aside from ghouls obviously) can't seem to target trees :\
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
ranth
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 184
|
|
Posted: 11/02/02 - 11:13 Post subject:
|
|
|
oh you didnt try an orc peon or human peon or any of those? i always thought they could do the same as the ghoul...just since ghouls are ud shock troops that its easier to take care of with UD because other races need to bring along a peon just for that situation.
it has to be a unit that can harvest lumber.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
WhiteWidow
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 975
|
|
Posted: 11/30/02 - 17:49 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
I didnt read much of the arguements, but, 5 or 6 shaman can bloodlust a whole army. 2 docs can put out enough healing wards to last the whole game. So what good are you really being? And NE owls will always be awesome, if you have a few hunts, what pain will it cause just to toss a few owls up, the only way they can get rid of it is dispell, or ghouls, and usually people are too lazy to do either of them.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
WhiteWidow
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 975
|
|
Posted: 11/30/02 - 17:52 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Ranth, I'll play a game when I get back from Utah.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
ranth
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 184
|
|
Posted: 12/03/02 - 09:15 Post subject:
|
|
|
sounds good karl.
better hurry up cuz im about to graduate college and move to a new city therefore losing cable for a bit.
i got a few days left.
look me up USEAST handle kiddisconnect
look at stats on ladder. all 3v3 RT games...sometimes my teammmates suck.
btw: im awesome =p
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
