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Aviger
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1509
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 Posted: 11/16/05 - 17:59 Post subject: Plasma vs LCD, whats the REAL difference
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I'm in the market for a new big tv.
I specifically want a flat tv that i can hang on the wall, but do want it as big as possible.
Now i know that plasma's have shorter lifespan then LCD's, but that's not a big concern.
They both last at least 5 years am i right? and i usually end up buying new stuff every 3-5  .
What i want is the best picture quality and the largest screen. HDTV for sure .
It will be used for TV watching and DVD's, i have another 42" that i use for gaming so it shouldn't get damaged by it.
What other then the burn-in problem is the big difference between the two?
And which delivers the best quality picture at 50" (at least) or higher resolutions?
I've read a lot of techincal articles but they always promote their product and i know theres a lot of Realpoorians who have great knowledge about this so hence i aint using google for this.
But any technical papers that make it clear are appreciated )
PS: i'm mostly interested the the general difference between the two, not in sony vs pioneer debates
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Spiritz
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1969
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 11/16/05 - 18:14 Post subject:
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Sony 4tw.
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Tamena
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1764
Location: New Joisey!
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Posted: 11/16/05 - 18:18 Post subject:
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Granted this is from 2002, but you get a good idea of the why's and wherefores:
TV Screen Battle: Plasma vs. LCD
Lusting after a big, flat-screen TV? Plasma is the choice now--but LCDs are gaining fast.
Yardena Arar, PCWorld.com
Wednesday, December 11, 2002
MONTEREY, CALIFORNIA--Dreaming of a supersize flat screen for your home entertainment center? Plasma isn't your only option: In a few years, large-format LCDs will compete with plasma displays for your pocketbook, industry officials predict.
By the middle of the decade, competition between the two formats is widely expected to be fiercest in the market for 42-inch TVs. "It's going to be a real battleground," says Sweta Dash, LCD analyst for the research firm ISuppli/Stanford Resources.
The subject of large, skinny televisions came up repeatedly Tuesday during opening sessions of Stanford Resources' 19th Annual Flat Information Display Conference, which features presentations by analysts and by executives from display technology companies worldwide.
Prices Drop
While striking large-format displays remain expensive by CRT standards, prices definitely are coming down from the $5000-plus points of years past. Gateway recently released a basic, low-resolution 42-inch plasma display priced at $2999, and ISuppli/Stanford Resources analyst Rhiddi Patel expects to see better-quality plasma displays available for $2500 by 2005.
But the real news is the prospect of competition from LCDs of similar size. Until recently, the manufacturing facilities that produce the panels used in LCD displays simply weren't geared for such large-format products, and today the largest LCD TV screens are about 30 inches (measured diagonally).
However, new and upcoming generations of LCD plants will be able to efficiently produce 42- and, eventually, 50-inch panels. By the second half of the decade, the cost differential between same-size LCDs and plasma displays probably won't exceed 10 percent, ISuppli/Stanford Resources senior vice president David Mentley told conference attendees.
Plasma Now, LCDs Later
"Right now, plasma has gotten an early jump into the category, and rightly so," says Al Giazzon, vice president of marketing for NEC/Mitsubishi Electronics, which sells LCDs and CRTs.
That's partly because, at the moment, vendors of large LCDs simply can't compete on price. It's also because plasma screens don't have the response-time issues that make LCDs less than optimal for moving images such as video or games. The principal drawback of previous-generation plasma screens--the tendency of stationary images to burn in and produce permanent ghosting--has diminished greatly in newer products. NEC, for example, has developed technology to deal with the problem by moving stationary pixels just enough to prevent such burn-in, Giazzon says.
But LCDs have some advantages over plasma, Giazzon adds. If you're contemplating a home entertainment setup involving a PC--perhaps running Windows XP Media Center Edition--or other activities involving text as well as graphics, you'll get a crisper, brighter image from an LCD.
The LCD Edge
Carl Steudle, marketing vice president for LG.Philips LCD America, concurs. LG.Philips makes LCD modules for use in all types of products, from handhelds to monitors to TVs. The company projects that worldwide LCD TV sales in all sizes will total about 1.5 million this year and 3.2 million in 2003. Most of these, however, will have screens no larger than 20 inches or so.
"Going forward, we do see a shift to larger sizes," he says. And prices will fall, too: The 30-inch models that go for $5000 to $5500 today should drop to $2000 to $3000 in the next two years--"and that's being conservative," he said.
Steudle believes that consumers will move to LCDs for better screen quality, higher reliability (LCDs have none of the burn-in issues associated with plasma), and longer product life. LCDs last for about 50,000 hours versus 30,000 hours for today's plasma screens, according to LG.Philips.
Steudle says that LCD TVs weigh 10 to 15 percent less than plasmas of comparable size. They often look better in daylight than plasmas, though Steudle concedes that plasmas have a brightness advantage at night.
As for response time, Steudle says that it will drop from today's 25 milliseconds (and in newer units, 16 milliseconds), to less than 5 milliseconds in 2004.
Stanford Resources' Dash expects LCD TV sales to grow tremendously over the next few years, to 9 million in 2005 and to over 18 million in 2006. But while larger-format LCD TVs will increase in popularity in the second half of the decade, she doesn't anticipate that they will kill off plasmas.
"I think they can coexist," Dash says. "Forty inches will be the real battleground."
The big thing about plasma that is a problem is burn in. Yeah I know you said you don't game on this TV...but do you watch any programs where the station logo is shown in the corner?? *most broadcast TV stations do this now, as do a lot of the mainstream cable/pay/sat channels*
My suggestion would be go for the LCD
*edit to remove stupid advertisement thingy*
Last edited by Tamena on 11/16/05 - 18:21; edited 1 time in total
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Tamena
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1764
Location: New Joisey!
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Maldek
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
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Posted: 11/16/05 - 18:33 Post subject:
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Aviger
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1509
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Posted: 11/16/05 - 18:58 Post subject:
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thanks for those articles tam, they do explain it pretty clearly.
Basically seems that if i dont mind replacing my TV in 3-4 years from now a Plasma is the best quality at large size atm..
Other then that i just have to go look at a lot of tv's to see which "looks" the best in my eyes.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 11/16/05 - 19:08 Post subject:
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This might be a dumb question but how hard is it to dispose of a used plasma? I know I was fairly shocked when it cost me $40 or so a few years ago to get rid of my old computer - plasmas are lots bigger and heavier. Is that likely to be an issue?
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Bait Masterson
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3842
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Posted: 11/16/05 - 19:46 Post subject:
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two words mean a world of diference
native resolution
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Aviger
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1509
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Posted: 11/16/05 - 20:55 Post subject:
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| Bait Masterson wrote: | two words mean a world of diference
native resolution |
explanation?
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Tamena
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1764
Location: New Joisey!
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Posted: 11/16/05 - 21:05 Post subject:
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High resolution plasmas are able to show more picture details than low resolution plasma tvs. Also, since there are more pixels used to make the image, each individual pixel is smaller, so the pixels themselves become less visible on the screen. However, you will pay more for higher resolution. So choosing the right resolution is the first step in finding the right plasma screen tv.
If a projector's native resolution is 800 x 600, that means that the actual number of physical pixels on the display device is 800 x 600.
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kireol
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 9517
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Posted: 11/16/05 - 22:52 Post subject:
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Tamena is the win on TVs. My local guy here says plasmas are good, but will be replaced by LCDs soon because plasmas get hot and a few other reasons.
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Tamena
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
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Location: New Joisey!
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Posted: 11/16/05 - 23:20 Post subject:
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they're also ungodly expensive to operate compaired to LCD, CRT and rear projection.
the cost for a plasma, energy wise is 3-4 times that of the other types of display
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Aviger
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1509
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Posted: 11/17/05 - 06:54 Post subject:
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| Tamena wrote: | they're also ungodly expensive to operate compaired to LCD, CRT and rear projection.
the cost for a plasma, energy wise is 3-4 times that of the other types of display |
at the risk of sounding cocky, cost is not really an issue.
Granted i dont want to buy a 20.000$ tv (i've seen some ) but i want the best quality i can buy atm for max $5.000 ...
Tam, what would you personally recommend as the best quality LCD and Plasma atm with at least 50"?
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Tamena
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1764
Location: New Joisey!
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Posted: 11/17/05 - 08:14 Post subject:
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Samsung has some nice stuff and the price point is resonable.
The Pioneer models look awesome, HP actually has some of the best picture quality I've seen. (yes, Hewlet Packard)
If you're going for the high end line, the Sony's are OK, but sketchy on workmanship. I wouldn't buy one of the Bravia models personally cause I don't trust Sony, but that's just my opinion.
See if you can find a dealer for the HP displays. If not, I'd lean more towards the Pioneer and Samsung like I said before
*edit*
cost wise I wasn't talking about what you're going to take out of pocket to buy it, I was talking about the life of the display. The plamsa's are energy hogs! The use 3-4 times the amount of electricity as the other types of displays. They also tend to run very hot/produce a lot of heat. I've seen a plasma raise the temp in a small room to the point that you could feel the difference. Granted it was a very small demo room, but it was hot in there with the tv running
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Xieroth
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
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xizorr
Luke Warm
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Posts: 236
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Posted: 11/17/05 - 10:17 Post subject:
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Pioneer will most likely be out for you. You will pay more than the other, the 50" is basically $6,000 and it is plasma. Thats more than the amount you wanted to spend.
You might want to look at the Hitachi. I remember helping my Mom when she was lookin to buy one and it was a toss up between the pioneer and the hitachi, pioneer was a little brighter, but I found some of the colors not realistic. If that makes since. The hitachi had better flesh tones and looked IMO a little better than the pioneer and a couple grand less. But at the same time some of you reds and brighter colors where a little dimmer in the hatachi. It really depends on what looks good to you as well.
The thing that really swayed her over is the last tv she had was an hatachi and its around 15 years old now and still works fine.
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Spiritz
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1969
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 11/17/05 - 11:32 Post subject:
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Sony > *
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Aviger
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1509
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Posted: 11/17/05 - 12:58 Post subject:
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yeah, not really compareable to a TV sir...specially in daytime
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Aviger
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1509
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Posted: 11/17/05 - 13:03 Post subject:
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people b***h about sony, but my current TV is a 42" inch rear projection tv that is about 6years old now i think and it looks better then ANY tv i've seen since.
The only downside is that it's ginormous. I want something able to hang on a wall and not be 4 feet wide
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 11/17/05 - 13:18 Post subject:
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Sony is shit.
The monitor I bought from Sony broke 2 times in 4 years and is now sitting uselessly in my spare room because I just can't be bothered with that piece of shit anymore.
My Sony tv has been ringing incessantly when on longer than 2 hours since 6 months after I bought it.
If I want to fix either of the above I'll lose my monitor/tv for like 3 whole months to the repair guys coz they are in far-f*****g-stan or something.
One time I sent my tv there. It came back saying nothing was wrong and they had done NOTHING. No call when it was being serviced to check with me about what was my complaint (since they apparently couldn't find it during the 30 seconds they actually looked at it).. nothing.
.... ok fucktards. I just like to send my tv away for 3 months because NOTHING IS WRONG and it's working properly?!
I hate Sony.
Do not support that crappy f*****g brand. 
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Aviger
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1509
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Posted: 11/17/05 - 13:31 Post subject:
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| Celestra wrote: |
If I want to fix either of the above I'll lose my monitor/tv for like 3 whole months to the repair guys coz they are in far-f*****g-stan or something.
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you just lazy 
My sony stuff works like a charm...24inch computer monitor has worked for 4 years, it even fell face down on the ground from about 5 feet up and not even a hitch ...
And my tv..omgcuminthefacegoodlooking still after 6 years
YOU SUXORS WOMAN! YOUR HANDS ARE DEVILSPAWN TO APLIANCES
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 11/17/05 - 13:41 Post subject:
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wtf are you talking about?
I only have 1 tv, so if I lose it for 3 months it's a prety major inconvenience. I'm not spoiled like you, remember ;p
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Aviger
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1509
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Posted: 11/17/05 - 13:43 Post subject:
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dont' get technical with me...lilian!
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Torval
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 138
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Posted: 11/20/05 - 02:26 Post subject: re
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i don't know about others but i buy sony just about everything i buy that can be made by sony and have had great performance from everything. this started with my home entertainment center, which i wanted to all match. the only thing not sony is my newest pc(mb f****d up after 3 months), tv(has a damn ticking noise now), and speakers(these work great had them years but they cost a lot. not a fan of sony speakers). the only 2 things that have broken aren't my sony products. bought my vcr after comparisons even despite a few mixed reviews. never had a problem. some people just abuse stuff, are stupid, or maybe just very unlucky.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 11/20/05 - 05:54 Post subject:
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I think it might just be the difference in Sony performance between high end and low end stuff. I don't buy the expensive tv's or monitors. I buy the cheaper stuff. I'm pretty careful with all my stuff so it isn't that. But even if it's not the most expensive stuff I still expect equipment to last longer than 6 months - 2 years without breaking in some way.
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Desiac
Total Newbie
Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 10
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Posted: 11/20/05 - 06:27 Post subject:
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(Xthos here not Des)
I had a top of the line Sony crt when I was in Germany, and I didn't think about it till reading Cele's remarks, but it would have a high pitch whistle after being on a long time, it didn't bother some people, but irritated the shit out of me, the only way I could stop it was to put like 4 newspapers underneath it (in the middle to make the bottom push up) to make something in it stop vibrating inside or something.
It also was loud as hell when turned on, we called it the nuclear reactor heh.
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Tamrissa
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 29 Nov 2002
Posts: 7100
Location: at my computer
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Posted: 11/20/05 - 06:42 Post subject:
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lcd > plasma
yay longevity!
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Tamena
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
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Location: New Joisey!
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Posted: 11/20/05 - 07:53 Post subject:
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Sony high end stuff is great, as is the Kenwood high end, Integra (which is Onkyo's high end line) and the RCA Selinium line of monitors. Hell RCA doesn't even call them TV"s anymore.
It's the stuff you get at mass marketers that give people fits and generally isn't the best quality available. If long term quality is important, you want the product to last, then spend the extra cash up front and get the best you can to begin with. You'll be happier down the road a bit.
This is most important with electronics. You get what you pay for.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 11/20/05 - 08:27 Post subject:
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Oh of course. But 6 months for a tv, even a 'cheap' one...
Come on now.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
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Posted: 11/20/05 - 08:31 Post subject:
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| Desiac wrote: | (Xthos here not Des)
I had a top of the line Sony crt when I was in Germany, and I didn't think about it till reading Cele's remarks, but it would have a high pitch whistle after being on a long time, it didn't bother some people, but irritated the shit out of me, the only way I could stop it was to put like 4 newspapers underneath it (in the middle to make the bottom push up) to make something in it stop vibrating inside or something.
It also was loud as hell when turned on, we called it the nuclear reactor heh. |
Yes! Exactly my problem. My bf isn't bothered with it but it annoys the crap out of me. I end up turning up the volume to drown it out.
I don't even mind so much if something breaks or whatever but the fact that they sent it back after like 2 months saying nothing was wrong, without even so much as a phonecall to me... it was insulting.
I guess it's a matter of trust like Tamena said... I don't trust Sony - I felt cheated by them on more than one occasion so no more Sony for me.
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