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Devook
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 2374
Location: Ypsilanti or Troy, MI
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Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
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 Posted: 08/04/05 - 14:59 Post subject:
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so liberal = against taking over the middle east . . .
. . . interesting
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kireol
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 9517
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 15:06 Post subject:
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 15:09 Post subject:
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So politically oppressed Nicaraguans who waged a civil war against their own tyrannous government is equivelant to foreigners organizing terrorist attacks against western nations even though those wester nations had no presence, political or military, in their countries at all? I guess that's why it's crafted for children who don't know any better.
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Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 15:10 Post subject:
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no presence?
. . . huh!
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Smackmuh
Luke Warm
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Posts: 448
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 15:24 Post subject:
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I miss school house rock.
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16398
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 15:43 Post subject:
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pretty great.
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motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 15:43 Post subject:
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Confused believes in the Tooth Fairy as well.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 15:46 Post subject:
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Heh teh funny
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 15:50 Post subject:
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| Overon wrote: | no presence?
. . . huh! |
Please elaborate on America's pre-9/11 presence in Afghanistan.
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Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 15:58 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: | | Overon wrote: | no presence?
. . . huh! |
Please elaborate on America's pre-9/11 presence in Afghanistan. |
I'd rather have you elaborate on their non-presence since you made the claim in the first place and I don't think you're worth the effort
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 16:00 Post subject:
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| Overon wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | Overon wrote: | no presence?
. . . huh! |
Please elaborate on America's pre-9/11 presence in Afghanistan. |
I'd rather have you elaborate on their non-presence since you made the claim in the first place and I don't think you're worth the effort |
There's a presence now for obvious reasons. We were attacked by Islamic fundamentalists. Now we're doing a little renovation. Now step back and explain to me what pre-9/11 presence the US had in Afghanistan.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 16:03 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: | | There's a presence now for obvious reasons. We were attacked by Islamic fundamentalists. |
Whoah there, slapnuts. We were attacked by Osama Bin Laden. We attacked Afghanistan because they were hiding Osama Bin Laden, not because "we were attacked by Islamic fundamentalists". There's a difference.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 16:57 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | There's a presence now for obvious reasons. We were attacked by Islamic fundamentalists. |
Whoah there, slapnuts. We were attacked by Osama Bin Laden. We attacked Afghanistan because they were hiding Osama Bin Laden, not because "we were attacked by Islamic fundamentalists". There's a difference. |
Wrong. America has been consistently under attack by Islamic Fundamentalists of every variety for 3 decades. They just went far enough on 9/11 to spark a war.
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Booker
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2562
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 17:13 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: | | Overon wrote: | no presence?
. . . huh! |
Please elaborate on America's pre-9/11 presence in Afghanistan. |
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html
"You lost today kid, but that doesn't mean you have to like it."
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 17:26 Post subject:
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You mean one of Jimmy Carter's advisor conducted an interview with a canadian and claimed that Afghanistan was all America's fault! Surely that's the case and it had nothing at all to do with the USSR's 14 year long bombing campaign.
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Ishmael
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 4446
Location: The US of A
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 17:27 Post subject:
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I miss schoolhouse rock also 
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Booker
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2562
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 19:29 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: |
You mean one of Jimmy Carter's advisor conducted an interview with a canadian and claimed that Afghanistan was all America's fault! Surely that's the case and it had nothing at all to do with the USSR's 14 year long bombing campaign. |
apparently my source wasn't good enough.
heres another.
http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/kakar-soviet-invasion/
| Quote: | | Here we come to the sowing of the dragon's teeth. US aid to the mujahideen went through the CIA. The CIA passed it on to its counterpart in Pakistan, the ISI (which doubles as the Pakistani secret police). The ISI passed it on to the political parties of exiles in Peshawr, from whom, in turn, it finally made its way, often much-reduced, to commanders inside Afghanistan. The ISI, as a matter of deliberate policy, favored the most extreme Islamist organizations it could lay hands on, plus ethnic separatists --- not because it thought these groups could form a stable government in Afghanistan, but precisely because it hoped they could not. (Recall that the frontier with Afghanistan, including Peshawr, had been disputed since before Pakistan formed in 1947.) The CIA went along, reasoning that the Islamists were the most immovably anti-communist groups available; the fact that they were also the most anti-western does not seem to have entered into their calculations. The net effect --- admirably described by Kakar, in large measure from direct observation --- was to render impotent other political groups, whether traditionalist or, like Kakar himself, nationalist, and to destroy the authority of traditional power-holders and even of jirgas, replacing them with men whose claims to power were force and fanaticism, often coupled to an astonishing ignorance of the Islam they claimed to be imposing. Of course most of the men who took up arms against the Soviets were not like that; but of course over time the balance of power shifted in favor of those who were. |
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Ishmael
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 4446
Location: The US of A
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 19:46 Post subject:
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| Booker wrote: | | Confused wrote: |
You mean one of Jimmy Carter's advisor conducted an interview with a canadian and claimed that Afghanistan was all America's fault! Surely that's the case and it had nothing at all to do with the USSR's 14 year long bombing campaign. |
apparently my source wasn't good enough.
heres another.
http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/kakar-soviet-invasion/
| Quote: | | Here we come to the sowing of the dragon's teeth. US aid to the mujahideen went through the CIA. The CIA passed it on to its counterpart in Pakistan, the ISI (which doubles as the Pakistani secret police). The ISI passed it on to the political parties of exiles in Peshawr, from whom, in turn, it finally made its way, often much-reduced, to commanders inside Afghanistan. The ISI, as a matter of deliberate policy, favored the most extreme Islamist organizations it could lay hands on, plus ethnic separatists --- not because it thought these groups could form a stable government in Afghanistan, but precisely because it hoped they could not. (Recall that the frontier with Afghanistan, including Peshawr, had been disputed since before Pakistan formed in 1947.) The CIA went along, reasoning that the Islamists were the most immovably anti-communist groups available; the fact that they were also the most anti-western does not seem to have entered into their calculations. The net effect --- admirably described by Kakar, in large measure from direct observation --- was to render impotent other political groups, whether traditionalist or, like Kakar himself, nationalist, and to destroy the authority of traditional power-holders and even of jirgas, replacing them with men whose claims to power were force and fanaticism, often coupled to an astonishing ignorance of the Islam they claimed to be imposing. Of course most of the men who took up arms against the Soviets were not like that; but of course over time the balance of power shifted in favor of those who were. |
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Your sig rocks.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 21:25 Post subject:
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| Booker wrote: | | Confused wrote: |
You mean one of Jimmy Carter's advisor conducted an interview with a canadian and claimed that Afghanistan was all America's fault! Surely that's the case and it had nothing at all to do with the USSR's 14 year long bombing campaign. |
apparently my source wasn't good enough.
heres another.
http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/kakar-soviet-invasion/
| Quote: | | Here we come to the sowing of the dragon's teeth. US aid to the mujahideen went through the CIA. The CIA passed it on to its counterpart in Pakistan, the ISI (which doubles as the Pakistani secret police). The ISI passed it on to the political parties of exiles in Peshawr, from whom, in turn, it finally made its way, often much-reduced, to commanders inside Afghanistan. The ISI, as a matter of deliberate policy, favored the most extreme Islamist organizations it could lay hands on, plus ethnic separatists --- not because it thought these groups could form a stable government in Afghanistan, but precisely because it hoped they could not. (Recall that the frontier with Afghanistan, including Peshawr, had been disputed since before Pakistan formed in 1947.) The CIA went along, reasoning that the Islamists were the most immovably anti-communist groups available; the fact that they were also the most anti-western does not seem to have entered into their calculations. The net effect --- admirably described by Kakar, in large measure from direct observation --- was to render impotent other political groups, whether traditionalist or, like Kakar himself, nationalist, and to destroy the authority of traditional power-holders and even of jirgas, replacing them with men whose claims to power were force and fanaticism, often coupled to an astonishing ignorance of the Islam they claimed to be imposing. Of course most of the men who took up arms against the Soviets were not like that; but of course over time the balance of power shifted in favor of those who were. |
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How is some random paper reputable? And did you ignore the entire "Soviet" thing...You know...The basis of the whole paper.
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 08/04/05 - 21:54 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: | | Booker wrote: | | Confused wrote: |
You mean one of Jimmy Carter's advisor conducted an interview with a canadian and claimed that Afghanistan was all America's fault! Surely that's the case and it had nothing at all to do with the USSR's 14 year long bombing campaign. |
apparently my source wasn't good enough.
heres another.
http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/kakar-soviet-invasion/
| Quote: | | Here we come to the sowing of the dragon's teeth. US aid to the mujahideen went through the CIA. The CIA passed it on to its counterpart in Pakistan, the ISI (which doubles as the Pakistani secret police). The ISI passed it on to the political parties of exiles in Peshawr, from whom, in turn, it finally made its way, often much-reduced, to commanders inside Afghanistan. The ISI, as a matter of deliberate policy, favored the most extreme Islamist organizations it could lay hands on, plus ethnic separatists --- not because it thought these groups could form a stable government in Afghanistan, but precisely because it hoped they could not. (Recall that the frontier with Afghanistan, including Peshawr, had been disputed since before Pakistan formed in 1947.) The CIA went along, reasoning that the Islamists were the most immovably anti-communist groups available; the fact that they were also the most anti-western does not seem to have entered into their calculations. The net effect --- admirably described by Kakar, in large measure from direct observation --- was to render impotent other political groups, whether traditionalist or, like Kakar himself, nationalist, and to destroy the authority of traditional power-holders and even of jirgas, replacing them with men whose claims to power were force and fanaticism, often coupled to an astonishing ignorance of the Islam they claimed to be imposing. Of course most of the men who took up arms against the Soviets were not like that; but of course over time the balance of power shifted in favor of those who were. |
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How is some random paper reputable? And did you ignore the entire "Soviet" thing...You know...The basis of the whole paper. |
dont bother with confused - even in the face of reality he will hold to his own opinion, no matter how wrong.
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