|
|
| Author |
Message |
Sashylein
Rookie
Joined: 03 Dec 2003
Posts: 53
|
 Posted: 02/19/04 - 03:34 Post subject: Petition: You have been robbed.
|
|
|
Following is my petition with regard to the Tribute Point changes implemented in last nights patch. Sony is not a smooth criminal, for however smooth their getting away with this was, and they are accountable to their customers who buy their software and pay their fees to play a game.
*Steps up on Soapbox*
I advise you all to log in and petition or go to eqlive and e-mail a petition. One voice is lost but many cause a racket that cannot be denied.
Here is my petition and if you do not like to write, you have my permission to copy/paste it into yours. I tis not the most concise bit of prose, but it serves:
Dear Sony CSR/GM's
When the Tribute masters went live, I went to donate at the first opportunity as I wanted Mana Preservation IV badly, and Flowing Thought V if possible.
I cleared out my trader and three other toons of all the lower end items I was otherwise going to sell in the bazaar, to get Mana Pres IV in an item, as well as a few higher end items that were not selling with any real quickness, or not selling for what I thought was a fair price.
I saw what the Tribute Master was giving for what I would have otherwise sold, deemed it to be a very fair trade-off (unlike the game NPC's who are outright thieves) that would allow me to have the effect long enough for me to win a bid at a raid for such an item, and "purchased" Tribute points in trade for droppable items. I then set the tribute points to spend in ways I thought would better my character and was greatful I did not have to stand in bazaar all day to get the platinum to buy a Mana Pres item at this point in time. I was very happy that day, and felt that finally Sony had offered something to the player that was truly useful and obtainable. Something that recognized dedication to pay-to-play game and rewarded you for it.
Today I log in to find that my tribute points have been downgraded to 6k from 45k, and not only do I think Sony has done it's loyal EQ players a grave disservice, but I am almost positive this is against the law. You have sold a digital effect to me at a set price per digital item on one date, then decided to lower the item's value without giving me the option to completely bow out of the tribute system and recover my digital items.
You could not sell me a car on a Sunday and then on the following Wednesday come and rip out the CD player and take the tires off as you have now decided it was too good a deal but my payment will remain the same. You should not be able to come and strip my character of Tribute points that I gave what I thought to equate a fair market value in items for. Had the items only been worth what was offered at the rate you "allotted" to me today (some one-eigth the original value), I would NEVER have given those items as tribute to begin with.
I would have chalked it up as yet another NPC who wants to put the screws to you for anything even remotely decent you are trying to buy/sell. As is usually the case.
I am asking that all my items be returned, and all your tribute points be returned to you. I choose not to participate in the Tribute System. My choice to do so should be equally as viable as your choice to penalize me for having participated in the first place. It is almost as if Sony pulled a robbery act on those of us who have stockpiled player items. Less items means less platinum from Trader sales. Less platinum sold to outside platinum sellers drives the outside prices of platinum up so high that no one will want to buy it anymore, and you would again be in control of the platinum on each server. Say the platinum that was created by exploitation not too very long ago. That would be a very underhanded (and I am just certain, illegal) way of doing business with people who pay bought Everquest and all it's expansions, and pay monthly to play, who play legally, investing thousands and thousands of hours building up characters who are capable of high volume equipment storage and trading. I am sure my lawyer would be very interested in looking up precendence on this subject, as it is new but definetly established, and people are winning suits for this very thing, even as we speak. I love to play Everquest. I do not like to be dealt with unfairly.
Sony tested it, thought it was good, initiated it, then changed their collective mind, deeming it a bad decision. I should not have to pay so large a price for Sony's choices. I wait patiently for patches to finish, for server resets, for random stupidity as well, all for things that were supposedly tested before implementation. I give honest and thoughtful feedback, report bugs when I find them, and try to play as honestly as I can. I pay for three accounts to play the game, and have requested to volunteer my time as a guide on another server. I pay to play, not to be penalized for paying to play.
Since you decided not to roll back the servers on the night that you took the Tribute Masters down, when you might have done so with much smaller difficulty and fallout, it is my opinion you should have eaten whatever foolishness occurred up until the point where you put the tribute masters back up at a FAR lesser trade value than originally. You did not, and in doing so robbed me of many items after allowing me to think it was a fair deal. I want them back. ASAP.
Sincerely,
"Real Name on Credit Card"
Account: "Account Name"
aka: "My Character" of Tarew Marr
_____________________________________________________________
If you were not aware this was done to you, go look. No shit, you have been robbed.
Last edited by Sashylein on 04/15/04 - 09:08; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
 |
teeroyoyort
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 312
Location: Pembroke Pines, FL
|
|
Posted: 02/19/04 - 06:24 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
thats pritty s****y =(, i'm not sure how that tribute thing works so i didn't bother with it... but dam, that sucks, sorry for you =(
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Okami
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2242
Location: The new board
|
|
Posted: 02/19/04 - 23:20 Post subject:
|
|
|
I stopped reading after <i>"I am almost positive this is against the law"</i>
So many people have tried that line for many other reasons.
It all boils down to "it's their game, they can do what they want" , and you agree to that before you can play by clicking the "I agree" button.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Isriam
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2721
|
|
Posted: 02/20/04 - 02:06 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Okami you're missed!
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Sashylein
Rookie
Joined: 03 Dec 2003
Posts: 53
|
|
Posted: 02/20/04 - 09:53 Post subject:
|
|
|
Actually Okami, you would be wrong. There are two class actions pending against Everquest for similar actions in previous expansion updates (read "nerfs") and precedence has been set for this very thing in courtrooms already.
Yes it is their game, and yes they can make unilateral decisions effecting it's players' digital entities, but they cannot outright rob people as they have in this instance. I pay Sony to treat me fairly. So does everyone else. They have not. Not this time. And d**k-all will be done about it if people just toss their hands up and say, "Oh well! f****d again! It is their game and they can do what they want!" Take a stance or take the f*****g.
On another note:
They moved my little Druid from one account to another and put an "x" at the end of her name. I now feel the need to poke someone in their g*****n eyeball for this. =(
My poor little Dru. Gah.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Okami
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2242
Location: The new board
|
|
Posted: 02/20/04 - 13:29 Post subject:
|
|
|
they add the "x" to all character moves, usually between servers though. It's incase someone else has the same name.
Need to petition to get it off.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Venkmen
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2260
|
|
Posted: 02/20/04 - 15:36 Post subject:
|
|
|
The only thing that you pay for with your money is the right to log in and play on their servers. You are paying for nothing else.
If you only are able to log in for 1 day out of the month then the service has been rendered. You may not be happy about it and cancel your account, but legally they did nothing wrong. Read your EULA sometime. In there it says "game experience may change during online play". That line right there gives them the right to do what they want with their game and their servers.
Yes it sucks that they felt they needed to "nerf" the tribute system, but the fact of the matter is that they felt the need to change it and have every right to do so.
Suck it up, drive on , and quit b******g.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Juan Pablo
Luke Warm
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 148
|
|
Posted: 02/20/04 - 15:36 Post subject:
|
|
|
No, Okami is completely right. Cite me a specific case where legal precedent has been set which will back up your petition.
You can't, because they don't exist.
Every single time you click the "I Agree" button, you agree to the fact that Sony can, and will make any changes to the game at any time.
Your "Car" analogy is flawed.
Your contract doesn't say "I agree to let you make changes to the vehicle after the purchase date".
The End User License Agreement for EverQuest does.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Venkmen
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2260
|
|
Posted: 02/20/04 - 15:42 Post subject:
|
|
|
Oh yeah and edit your subject line.
Petition not Patition.
Tool
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Ulkaur
Rookie
Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 60
|
|
Posted: 02/20/04 - 16:31 Post subject:
|
|
|
Actually, there was a case in Asia where someone got hacked and had to sue to get their character back to where he was before the suit, but he won. I believe the judge decided that the time he'd spent amassing the items and cash his "character" had had value and the company was ordered to restore it.
Whether this would apply in the US if the same case were to go that far is anyone's guess.
Whether or not it is legal for Sony to do it because that is in the EULA, it is still immoral to offer someone something and then undo it all when they figured out they made a mistake AFTER certain items were exploited. Rather than adjust a few items that could be used that way they took other items, such as items that drop in Charasis, that you now need a group of 55-65 to do, and nerfed the tribute values all to hell. This implies that you now need to buy LDoN and GoD to get droppable items with better tribute value, which is baiting and switching.
If this screwup does turn into a class-action suit, they could full well end up losing, as they had the opportunity to summon items on test and hand them to tribute masters to make sure "THEIR GAME" worked before release. If they chose not to do that or check formulas for tribute values, the customer should at the very least be reimbursed for the good items that Sony has taken away.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
merdocc
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2038
Location: Pasadena Ca
|
|
Posted: 02/20/04 - 16:40 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Blame the lamers who found out some tinkered item would sell for 1600 a pop an dwere selling stacks and stacks of them racking up 100k points.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
garaman
Fresh Meat
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 6
|
|
Posted: 04/04/04 - 21:19 Post subject:
|
|
|
you're in their world now, so what?
in america there's a place called the Better Business Bureau, when im told by a GM sorry we cant help. I email their boss the link to the san diego better business bureau complaint form page, and usually get helped. I learned this years ago when they lost my char and items and refused to help, then saw on eqlizer (my name) says EQ is best rpg ever . this was when sony made a fake movie reviewer to say their bad movies were good...
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Xieroth
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 1902
|
|
Posted: 04/04/04 - 23:09 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
The fact that you care enough about a video game to seek legal action bothers me.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 3086
|
|
Posted: 04/06/04 - 14:40 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Grats on bumping a stupid post :/
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
|
|
Posted: 04/06/04 - 18:15 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Xieroth wrote: | | The fact that you care enough about a video game to seek legal action bothers me. |
The fact that it bothers you that someone's mad they didn't get what they paid for says more about you than the original complainant. If you put your quarters into an arcade machine and it just ate them, wouldn't you be p****d? What if it was $13 in quarters, would you try and get that money back? Or does the fact that the money was spent on a video game somehow make the money worth less?
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Frashii
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1338
Location: Anchorage, AK
|
|
Posted: 04/06/04 - 20:54 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Okami wrote: | I stopped reading after <i>"I am almost positive this is against the law"</i>
So many people have tried that line for many other reasons.
It all boils down to "it's their game, they can do what they want" , and you agree to that before you can play by clicking the "I agree" button. |
wow... I did that EXACT same thing. You had me until I saw that line... then realized your petition was going to get /dev/null'd and, while I feel your pain, will be ignored.
You posted here looking for advice... My advice is to not try and TELL them with the legal system what they can and can't do 
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Whoreofaman
Total Newbie
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 18
|
|
Posted: 04/06/04 - 21:05 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Isriam wrote: | | Okami you're missed! |
/HUG Okami
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Xieroth
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 1902
|
|
Posted: 04/07/04 - 01:50 Post subject:
|
|
|
| motherface wrote: |
The fact that it bothers you that someone's mad they didn't get what they paid for says more about you than the original complainant. If you put your quarters into an arcade machine and it just ate them, wouldn't you be p****d? What if it was $13 in quarters, would you try and get that money back? Or does the fact that the money was spent on a video game somehow make the money worth less? |
Lets break down each feature of EQ; Characters, zones, quests, items, spells, raids, chat, guilds, groups, channels, graphics, custom UI, instantced zones, semi-dynamic events, GM events (rare yes), tradeskills, tribute system, bazaar, guides, etc...
So out of all those features, plus the ones i didn't list. The tribute system is worth ALL the money she/he's ever paid to play EQ? I don't think she/he was paying 13 a month just for the tribute system.
If SoE said "for an extra 13 a month you can get this tribute system" and then they changed it with out some sort of compensation. I could see one getting mad. But don't sit there and tell me you expected to keep all 100000000000..... points you got from massing gnome tinker bait. Like that 1kpp (at best) has just completely ruined your entire EQ experience.
If so, I think you need to find a new game.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 3086
|
|
Posted: 04/07/04 - 14:51 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Plz to be letting this thread die in the face :/
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Juzzkiddin
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 190
|
|
Posted: 04/09/04 - 13:17 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Xieroth wrote: | | motherface wrote: |
The fact that it bothers you that someone's mad they didn't get what they paid for says more about you than the original complainant. If you put your quarters into an arcade machine and it just ate them, wouldn't you be p****d? What if it was $13 in quarters, would you try and get that money back? Or does the fact that the money was spent on a video game somehow make the money worth less? |
Lets break down each feature of EQ; Characters, zones, quests, items, spells, raids, chat, guilds, groups, channels, graphics, custom UI, instantced zones, semi-dynamic events, GM events (rare yes), tradeskills, tribute system, bazaar, guides, etc...
So out of all those features, plus the ones i didn't list. The tribute system is worth ALL the money she/he's ever paid to play EQ? I don't think she/he was paying 13 a month just for the tribute system.
If SoE said "for an extra 13 a month you can get this tribute system" and then they changed it with out some sort of compensation. I could see one getting mad. But don't sit there and tell me you expected to keep all 100000000000..... points you got from massing gnome tinker bait. Like that 1kpp (at best) has just completely ruined your entire EQ experience.
If so, I think you need to find a new game. |
I'm sure its not just the tribute system that had bothered this person. This was just the last straw for this person. Although it doesn't really matter because nothing will be done. Not to mention Xieroth you changed your argument from spending your money on a video game, to spending all your hard-earned in-game plat on tribute points.
Don't let the thread die!!!
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Xieroth
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 1902
|
|
Posted: 04/09/04 - 14:27 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
plat is not hard earned. Infact plat is so damn easy to make that I don't even understand how it's still held as currency.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Juzzkiddin
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 190
|
|
Posted: 04/09/04 - 21:53 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
people are lazy
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
|
|
Posted: 04/10/04 - 04:40 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Venkmen wrote: | The only thing that you pay for with your money is the right to log in and play on their servers. You are paying for nothing else.
If you only are able to log in for 1 day out of the month then the service has been rendered. You may not be happy about it and cancel your account, but legally they did nothing wrong. Read your EULA sometime. In there it says "game experience may change during online play". That line right there gives them the right to do what they want with their game and their servers.
Yes it sucks that they felt they needed to "nerf" the tribute system, but the fact of the matter is that they felt the need to change it and have every right to do so.
Suck it up, drive on , and quit b******g. |
This is a tough one. Contrary to what so many seem to believe, a EULA does not give you carte blanche to s***w over your customers. They could put anything they damn well please in there and you could click 'I agree' every single day for 5 years and you could still win a lawsuit against them. Admittedly, you'd have to have a pretty strong case but simply 'putting it writing' does not make necessarily make it binding if a court decides it's unreasonable.
That being said, I don't think you really have a case here. You have a very valid complaint but the best you can do is report it to the BBB and to their customer service department (if they even have one anymore). But like someone else pointed out, immoral is not illegal.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Buntz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 3340
Location: Banner Elk, N.C.
|
|
Posted: 04/14/04 - 14:39 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Sashylein wrote: | Actually Okami, you would be wrong. There are two class actions pending against Everquest for similar actions in previous expansion updates (read "nerfs") and precedence has been set for this very thing in courtrooms already.
Yes it is their game, and yes they can make unilateral decisions effecting it's players' digital entities, but they cannot outright rob people as they have in this instance. I pay Sony to treat me fairly. So does everyone else. They have not. Not this time. And d**k-all will be done about it if people just toss their hands up and say, "Oh well! f****d again! It is their game and they can do what they want!" Take a stance or take the f*****g.
On another note:
They moved my little Druid from one account to another and put an "x" at the end of her name. I now feel the need to poke someone in their g*****n eyeball for this. =(
My poor little Dru. Gah. |
no..she's pretty much right
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Sashylein
Rookie
Joined: 03 Dec 2003
Posts: 53
|
|
Posted: 04/15/04 - 09:00 Post subject:
|
|
|
As an FYI, after much deliberation and too much swapping of e-mails and a phone log about 6 hours long, I got my items back.
| Xieroth wrote: |
If SoE said "for an extra 13 a month you can get this tribute system" and then they changed it with out some sort of compensation. I could see one getting mad. But don't sit there and tell me you expected to keep all 100000000000..... points you got from massing gnome tinker bait. Like that 1kpp (at best) has just completely ruined your entire EQ experience.
If so, I think you need to find a new game. |
The reason I got my items back is because I did not exploit some system of turn ins with b******t tinkered items. I pay to play, and I play all the hours I am on. I do not have time to find bigger and better ways to exploit EQ. I have better things to do in life even if I have nothing else to do at all.
I sent them tremendously huge logfiles of all the time I have spent in EQ just since my character reached level 65, showing them where each and every one of the items I traded in came from. I didn't let it go. I sent them citation of the lawsuits they already face and the language within them and highlighted an abusive way of handling things that gives me, their customer with three accounts, no option to choose differently now that they have up and changed the specifics of something they offered.
If you cannot stand up for something then you will fall for anything. I was reimbursed my items (most likely because they realized I had logfiles of each thing they received from me). I have chosen to opt out of the Tribute System. That is how it should have been to begin with. It was all I asked for.
And by the way, several of you read a fek lot into what I said, that only existed in your head.
"Ruined your entire EQ experience"?
Not bloody likely. But three years of three accounts should at least be worth being dealt with straight. Not "Hey mister, wanna buy a watch?" dealings. I learned not to take Sony's initial offerings at face value again. Sony has learned I am capable of being a big pain in the ass. We are even.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Paden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 9362
Location: North CAROLINA!
|
|
Posted: 04/16/04 - 02:42 Post subject:
|
|
|
This s***s on the top 10 reasons Paden quit EQ.
Reason #7
Why the f**k should I pay to play a game that always wants to cockblock me and f**k me over like a b***h in prison with bubba.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Choushin
Rookie
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 54
|
|
Posted: 04/16/04 - 12:42 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Theres a tie.. Okami's avatar or that fat retarded kid avatar... I cant decide.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Sashylein
Rookie
Joined: 03 Dec 2003
Posts: 53
|
|
Posted: 04/16/04 - 16:05 Post subject:
|
|
|
Another thing that kinda bugs me is when people say that I don't pay 13 a month for any one part, I pay it for the total. So let's see...
*does math, brain seizes up, picks arbitrary number*
Tribute System is worth about $0.00045 right?
I still pay for it. Now I will never use it again, but I still pay for it. If I gave you a penny a year for a service (damn you are cheap!) I expect my penny to pay for what service you offered, and not some renegotiated service where you never invited ME to the negotiations, just changed the service.
I doubt Sony gives a fat rat's ass what I think. I doubt they gave me my items back becasue I am some valued customer in their eyes. I know they gave me my stuff just to shut me the hell up. Whatever. It worked and the Tribute Master can please to be servicing others at my expense.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Paden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 9362
Location: North CAROLINA!
|
|
Posted: 04/16/04 - 18:55 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
My clown wants to eat you!
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Xieroth
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 1902
|
|
Posted: 04/16/04 - 23:12 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
There are tricks to the tribute system. I know of a few items that sell for about 3-4k in the bazaar and will net you around 12k in return. Which is a nice 3:1+ ratio.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
