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Abi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 1747
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 Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:02 Post subject: On a more serious note .. WAKE UP DNC
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OK seriously ... It's all well and good to be happy that your party is doing good .. but on a serious note .. the Democrats of today are SO OUT OF TOUCH with the core values of the Democractic party it's really starting to worry me. The Nation as a whole is CRINGING away from them and they are doing nothing to change.
Our nation NEEDS opposing views and checks and balances and as it looks now we are slowly losing those views in both the house and the senate and this is a BAD thing ... But the nation as a whole, obviously is trying to send a message that the DNC simply ISNT GETTING ...
I think the DNC seriously needs to take a step back ..actually LISTEN to the people and NOT HOLLYWOOD and reaccess their positions.
Just some food for thought...
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xeqer
Luke Warm
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 348
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:08 Post subject:
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I dunno, I kinda liked the free mini-concert put on by Bon Jovi, here in Milwaukee. As soon as he was done, and Kerry took the stage, alot of the republicans in the audience took the free buses provided by the DNC to city hall and filled out absentee ballots for Bush-Cheney.
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Brael
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2122
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:08 Post subject:
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Opposing views are good and all but, they both have to be valid views, the election yesterday just proved that Democrats don't have any good points. Wasn't it you that said the Democrats would probally undergo major restructuring after this election? Looks like they pretty much have to to me.
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Lzert
Total Newbie
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 13
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:10 Post subject:
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Democrats have to realize that the Republican party is being built into a true majority party (what dems were for 40 years), and learn to deal as the minority party just like the Republicans did for 40 years.
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Abi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 1747
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:13 Post subject:
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Exactly Brael ..
I think they are too ... Obama is a good guy .. and he's their new shining star ... we'll see what happens
/shrug
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Abi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 1747
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:14 Post subject:
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What worries me the most is the HATRED and VENOM from the Left ... Talk about sore losers 
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:16 Post subject:
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Now is the time for the CC (Christian Coalition) to use it's weight and legislate moral values and religious right. 
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:18 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Now is the time for the CC (Christian Coalition) to use it's weight and legislate moral values and religious right |
I am scared to death of this Dyers.
Morals and religion belong in the home, not the government. Religion is my single biggest disagreement with the Republican party.
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quotison
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1594
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:19 Post subject:
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| Abi wrote: | | What worries me the most is the HATRED and VENOM from the Left ... Talk about sore losers |
Please point me to this venom  I personally have tried to be as polite and respectful as possible this morning, although I am obviously disappointed at the outcome. I know you all were expecting a 2000 repeat where Kerry would b***h and moan for weeks, but I don't see that happening.
I do agree that Obama is good for the Democrats, and quite frankly, his election was the only good thing that happened for Democrats yesterday. We need more of him and less of John Kerry types.
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Abi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 1747
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:19 Post subject:
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| Dyers wrote: | | Now is the time for the CC (Christian Coalition) to use it's weight and legislate moral values and religious right. |
FYI "the religious right" is a VERY small portion of Republicans ... nice try through KEEP WHINING!!!
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Abi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 1747
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:21 Post subject:
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I couldn't agree with you more there Quot Kerry is slime .. I actually like Obama ..
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Lzert
Total Newbie
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 13
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:29 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | | Quote: | | Now is the time for the CC (Christian Coalition) to use it's weight and legislate moral values and religious right |
I am scared to death of this Dyers.
Morals and religion belong in the home, not the government. Religion is my single biggest disagreement with the Republican party. |
Couple things on this:
First - to be a majority party, some of the far right/left core of the majority party have to sit to the side on a handful of issues. I don't see the religious right coming out strong from this. Instead other conservative values will be forefront - privatized ownership of things like Social Security, a strong defense, and low taxes.
Second - some of those core values will shine through over time if the Republicans maintain a majority control. Moral conservative values will not be changed over night though. I would be surprised if there were any huge changes in the "rights" liberal judges have given us the last 40 years would be repealed any time soon. I think there is hope for some of them to be softened and maybe repealed in the long long term, but it will not happen soon and it is the responsibility of the Republican party to convince the people of America that conservative values work and are right.
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:29 Post subject:
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| Abi wrote: | | Dyers wrote: | | Now is the time for the CC (Christian Coalition) to use it's weight and legislate moral values and religious right. |
FYI "the religious right" is a VERY small portion of Republicans ... nice try through KEEP WHINING!!! |
I am not whining, Abi. I voted for Bush and clearely supported him.
Thanks for stopping by after he won to show your support.
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:32 Post subject:
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I just stated a concern with the CC thinking with this clear win as a "go" to push their agenda even further. I have the same concern as Vek does on this. It should not be done. /shrug
I posted that statement to spark conversation.
Something to watch for either way.
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Abi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 1747
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:34 Post subject:
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Yes I agree there 100% Dyars .. sorry .. as I said.. im still drunk .. and tired .. been up all night .. LOL Im going to sleep now bye..
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:45 Post subject:
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| Abi wrote: | Exactly Brael ..
I think they are too ... Obama is a good guy .. and he's their new shining star ... we'll see what happens
/shrug |
lol, just wait for Karl Rove to take a go at him
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Conqueso
Luke Warm
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 388
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 13:54 Post subject:
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You are right about the Christian Coalition being a small part. Keep in mind that there are many within the Republican party or tend to vote Republican that are more moderate on religious issues. The CC will be tempered by the more moderate views. Do not equate the CC with the moderates. I think that has been a major misunderstanding by many of the extreme liberals in the US.
I am also glad to see Obama win. Maybe that will knock some sense into the Democrat Party. Obama seems pretty level headed and a nice guy. Keyes is a loon. Ever since the Democrats lost a majority of their southern conservative Democrats, it has been downhill. Clinton was from Arkansas and Carter was from Georgia. Although neither was very conservative, they were not ultra liberal either. The Democrats need to go back to being liberal on a few issues (such as the environment) and more conservative on others.
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lotek
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1598
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 14:07 Post subject:
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my big 2 fears:
the cc pushing morality (I'd really like seeing a relaxation of the drug war instead of an increase. I think this is a matter of national security, as well as traditional "republican" values of getting government out of your buisness).
and bush spending money like a sailor on leave. drug prescription benefits anyone?
on a plus, I'd love to see social security privitized. I alreay know I will not see ANY of my money EVER. At least that way I should see some of it.
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 14:15 Post subject:
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Do what I did. Incorporate. I don't pay any of that tax crap. I pay local taxes to support everything else but not Social Security or Fed, since I am not a federal employee anyway.
Incorporate in Nevada!
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 17:47 Post subject:
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The Republican party will probably cater increasingly more to religious and moral value groups, the 3rd "hottest" issue at the exit polls was "moral values".
The "religious right" isn't a small part of Republican voters, 1/4th of Ohioans identified themselves as "born again Christians" with them of course supporting Bush by huge margins.
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Abi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 1747
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 18:05 Post subject:
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Don't worry Ren .. us more socially moderate Republicans won't let em 
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Conqueso
Luke Warm
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 388
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 18:31 Post subject:
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Heh, the Christian Coalition is a lobbying group and leans towards fundamentalism. I do not know of any mainstream Protestant church organizations (Southern Baptist, United Methodists, etc) that are affiliated with them. I think the CC is supported only through individual chruches/ministries. They are a small part of the Republicans and do not always fall in line with the Republican platform. "Born again Christians" is a "religious declaration" with some protestant denominations and range from liberal to fundamentalist.
You can tell the real nutjob fundamentalists pretty quickly. Case in point is Alan Keyes or Pat Robertson. You also forget that some minority groups, such as Hispanic Catholics and Black Protestants, promote "morals and values" as well. The two voting blocks tend to be more liberal on education and government programs, but still follow value issues regarding family and religion (at least in Texas and Florida - Southern California is a bit mixed). Both Democrats and Republicans have religious group affiliations and relgious political spectrums ranging from liberal to fundamentalist.
As Abi said above, the moderate conservatives do not let the few fundamentalists in the Republican party run rabid.
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xammer99
Luke Warm
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 336
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 19:32 Post subject:
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May be someone can answer me this...why is Obama considered such a big thing for the Democrats? As a grasping for some straws in the face of a pretty resounding defeat I can see it, but its not a big win. Obama didn't meet many of the expectations for his margin of victory.
Face it, Obama was running against an outside hired gun candidate that had no chance whatsoever at victory from the start. Keyes was a Maryland citizen before moving back to Illinios specificially for the election and from the get go was savoring the taste of shoe leather. I'm honestly disappointed in Obama's showing, I expected him to get over 80% after some of the stupid things Keyes said.
Plus, I'm still a bit unhappy with Jack Ryan withdrawing. What'd the man do wrong? He had public **** with Jerri Ryan...have you seen Jerri Ryan? Given a chance I'd bend the woman over a police squad car in front of Federal Plaza in New York City at high noon after a month of advertising.
Granted that may be a little overstating it, but my good, he shagged Jerri Ryan. Stupid reason to with draw.
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 19:49 Post subject:
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| Conqueso wrote: | Heh, the Christian Coalition is a lobbying group and leans towards fundamentalism. I do not know of any mainstream Protestant church organizations (Southern Baptist, United Methodists, etc) that are affiliated with them. I think the CC is supported only through individual chruches/ministries. They are a small part of the Republicans and do not always fall in line with the Republican platform. "Born again Christians" is a "religious declaration" with some protestant denominations and range from liberal to fundamentalist.
You can tell the real nutjob fundamentalists pretty quickly. Case in point is Alan Keyes or Pat Robertson. You also forget that some minority groups, such as Hispanic Catholics and Black Protestants, promote "morals and values" as well. The two voting blocks tend to be more liberal on education and government programs, but still follow value issues regarding family and religion (at least in Texas and Florida - Southern California is a bit mixed). Both Democrats and Republicans have religious group affiliations and relgious political spectrums ranging from liberal to fundamentalist.
As Abi said above, the moderate conservatives do not let the few fundamentalists in the Republican party run rabid. |
Cheese, you may wish to know that the CC is part of the WCC. I remember the Pope calling for unity and acceptance of all belief systems and to come together as one.
http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/english.html
There is a world church and it started, I believe, in 2000 with Papal Rome as it's head.
22 October -Recalling the World Council of Churches' (WCC) foundational mandate to make "the church in every place a voice for those who have no voice" as well as its firm commitment to justice, rooted in the "ecumenical perception of God's preferential option for the poor," WCC general secretary Samuel Kobia affirmed encounters with the Bretton Woods institutions.
From left: World Bank (WB) president James D. Wolfensohn, WCC general secretary Samuel Kobia, International Monetary Fund (IMF) director Rodrigo de Rato.
| Quote: | | Southern Baptist, United Methodists, etc |
are all part of the WCC. Believe the last ones they had sign up were the 7th day advens.
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Kin
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 388
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 19:55 Post subject:
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| xammer99 wrote: | May be someone can answer me this...why is Obama considered such a big thing for the Democrats? As a grasping for some straws in the face of a pretty resounding defeat I can see it, but its not a big win. Obama didn't meet many of the expectations for his margin of victory.
Face it, Obama was running against an outside hired gun candidate that had no chance whatsoever at victory from the start. Keyes was a Maryland citizen before moving back to Illinios specificially for the election and from the get go was savoring the taste of shoe leather. I'm honestly disappointed in Obama's showing, I expected him to get over 80% after some of the stupid things Keyes said.
Plus, I'm still a bit unhappy with Jack Ryan withdrawing. What'd the man do wrong? He had public **** with Jerri Ryan...have you seen Jerri Ryan? Given a chance I'd bend the woman over a police squad car in front of Federal Plaza in New York City at high noon after a month of advertising.
Granted that may be a little overstating it, but my good, he shagged Jerri Ryan. Stupid reason to with draw. |
That just goes to show that you have probably 25% on either side of the spectrum that will vote dem or rep no matter WHAT.
Those are the people that really scare me... at both ends.
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 19:59 Post subject:
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Here is a list of all the denominations that are involved with the World Community Church.
http://wcc-coe.org/wcc/who/mch-e.html
They are more powerful than most realise, actually.
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quotison
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1594
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 20:14 Post subject:
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| Kin wrote: | | xammer99 wrote: | May be someone can answer me this...why is Obama considered such a big thing for the Democrats? As a grasping for some straws in the face of a pretty resounding defeat I can see it, but its not a big win. Obama didn't meet many of the expectations for his margin of victory.
Face it, Obama was running against an outside hired gun candidate that had no chance whatsoever at victory from the start. Keyes was a Maryland citizen before moving back to Illinios specificially for the election and from the get go was savoring the taste of shoe leather. I'm honestly disappointed in Obama's showing, I expected him to get over 80% after some of the stupid things Keyes said.
Plus, I'm still a bit unhappy with Jack Ryan withdrawing. What'd the man do wrong? He had public **** with Jerri Ryan...have you seen Jerri Ryan? Given a chance I'd bend the woman over a police squad car in front of Federal Plaza in New York City at high noon after a month of advertising.
Granted that may be a little overstating it, but my good, he shagged Jerri Ryan. Stupid reason to with draw. |
That just goes to show that you have probably 25% on either side of the spectrum that will vote dem or rep no matter WHAT.
Those are the people that really scare me... at both ends. |
Well, Barack Obama is a great guy and all, but he's still a democrat. And no matter what, I think some people aren't going to vote for him due Democrats' stances on certain issues. The exit poll in Illinois asked people if they were a White conservative protestant. 13% yes- of those 77% voted for Keyes and 18% voted for Obama. Of those that said no, 87%- 20% voted for Keyes and 78% voted for Obama.
When people are claiming Bush's 3% popular vote win as significant, well Obama's 43% win is certainly a landslide.
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xammer99
Luke Warm
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 336
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 20:20 Post subject:
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Certainly a landslide under normal conditions, but the election was handed to him when Ryan dropped and the fellow brought in ran perhaps the worst senatorial race in memory. Which is saying something compared to Jim Bunnings who compared his opponents appearence to that of one of Saddam Hussein's sons.
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quotison
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1594
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 20:22 Post subject:
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| xammer99 wrote: | | Certainly a landslide under normal conditions, but the election was handed to him when Ryan dropped and the fellow brought in ran perhaps the worst senatorial race in memory. Which is saying something compared to Jim Bunnings who compared his opponents appearence to that of one of Saddam Hussein's sons. |
And Jim Bunning won
Must suck to be a Democrat in Kentucky.
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xammer99
Luke Warm
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 336
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Posted: 11/03/04 - 21:21 Post subject:
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Actually its more appropriate to say "must suck to be a democrat in the South." With Louisiana electing Vitter w/o need for a run off (in LA you need 51% of the vote to take office) it pretty much completes the shift of the South away from the democratic party. Which is pretty telling considering that the Democratic party dominated the South since 1800 when it was the Democratic-Republican Party and elected Jefferson.
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