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Abiwabi
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 395
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 Posted: 11/01/05 - 13:58 Post subject: Number of hk's the new wow epeen?
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discuss.
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Smackmuh
Luke Warm
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Posts: 448
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 14:37 Post subject:
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Worst post ever.
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Psink
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 872
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 16:07 Post subject:
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The less HKs you have per rank the better you are. The more you have per rank makes you a no skill zerger.
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Kazkuk
Luke Warm
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 329
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 16:17 Post subject:
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| Psink wrote: | | The less HKs you have per rank the better you are. The more you have per rank makes you a no skill zerger. |
low HKs could also mean you suck at pvp and pray for your side to win BGs so you can rank off bonus honor since thats where alot of it is anyway.
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FockTop
Sir Postalot
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1055
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 16:19 Post subject:
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| Psink wrote: | | The less HKs you have per rank the better you are. The more you have per rank makes you a no skill zerger. |
nope, many people take a break from PVP and drop from many ranks, once they decide to go back into PVP, they have to climb back up meaning you can have a champion with 15k hks and another with 40k hks.
Also if you play on a side that lose BGs often like on my server during the day horde win and at night its impossible to win, then the only way to get ranksis with HKs.
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FockTop
Sir Postalot
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1055
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 16:21 Post subject:
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oh and we had a guy that almost got to general, on our server only by leeching honor point from victories the guy would die 90% of the time on his horse doing nothing other then run around like a moron.
Skilled for sure.
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Gethy
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5599
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 16:34 Post subject:
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Wow, I could understand two Mealstorm posts in a row.
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NickPSH
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5680
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 17:01 Post subject:
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I have 3k or so HK. I'm also rank 8 however.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 17:11 Post subject:
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I don't know what the p**s it takes to get above scout. I have like 400 HK's and 3000 honor. I know it changes from week to week but this seems like a lot for a casual gamer to still be stuck at shit-assed scout.
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FockTop
Sir Postalot
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1055
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 17:19 Post subject:
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| NickPSH wrote: | | I have 3k or so HK. I'm also rank 8 however. |
Rank 8 and only 3k HKs? are you slacking, leeching?
For my first week of PVP, I went from rank zero to rank 5 first sarg I had 5081 Hks, and 402,680 Honor point.
had standing 2 on my server next to a uber guild leader who was slacking leeching in AB 24/7 because his friend would leech for him too.
I completly stopped PVP after this, so in fact HKs mean in no way that you zerg only an idiot would beleive so...because HKs give you honor point. Also had lost a few days of PVP when I got p****d and deleted my character lol blizzard give it back to me but I had lost all my PVP for the next week.
So when you battle in AB you get bonus Honor for winning and for the duration of the battle AND for your HKs which depend of the rank of those that you kill.
Now some people chose to defend points like : forge/farm/stable/mill/mine and relax while only getting a few HKs peer battle and are happy with the honmor bonus while others rather charge have fun and get has many Hks as possible.
Nothing to do with zerging, not at all.
Normaly if you battle against a equal team, its easy to get 40-60 HKs peer battle 20 if you fight against a uber guild hehehe...
But then again if you passed all your time running around on your horse like that rank 10 moron while getting ganked all the time like a newb then I beleive that you can be rank 8 with only 3 hks...
But I dont beleive this because it would require you to do like 3 times the number of battle each day then someone that play a lot if not hardcore because HKs give a very good Honor bonus can reach 300 for a rank 14 if I remember well peer kill.
And only what 1400? I forgot when you win a battle.
So hehe...
Last edited by FockTop on 11/01/05 - 17:23; edited 1 time in total
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Abiwabi
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 395
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 17:22 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | | I don't know what the p**s it takes to get above scout. I have like 400 HK's and 3000 honor. I know it changes from week to week but this seems like a lot for a casual gamer to still be stuck at shit-assed scout. |
Since you asked....
| Quote: | Edit 1: Figured I'll put a summary of points here:
1) Unless you're in the absolute top 1 ( at most 2), you'll never see rank 14, ever, due to 20% decay to beat before gaining any grounds.
2) Unless you keep pvping more and more and more, you WILL hit a glass ceiling due to your playtime, again, due to 20% decay
3) The ceiling in 2) used to be that most people will never see rank 7+ (by design), now (post 1. most will never see rank 10+. Most being dedicated PvPers who do nothing but BG when they log on
Edit 2:
Thanks to Zeldyan From Alleria on the PVP forum for correcting my understanding of decay IF you did not beat 20% of your original ranking points, you will only lose up to 10% or 2500, whichever is less. My original post was wrong, you never lose more than 2500 rating points, ever.
I don't know how many have sat down and figured out the exact system of ranking points and ranks, but I thought I'd post it here for people to read. Forgive me if any of this was already proven wrong by others.
With the web site ( https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/index.html ) that showed us what is our overall standing and "rating", I wanted to see how far my given play time can get me in this pvp system, and being a system analyst, I thought, what the hell, it'd be neat to figure it out.
Let me quickly explain what the numbers on that page means:
Standing is your overall standing on your server for your faction, Lifetime kills is the total number of honourable kills you have ever
received, rating is the famed ranking points you have. This ranking points is that "hidden" number behind that nice little progress bar you have on your honour tab.
Please note that this ranking points is NOT your honour points get (and wiped) weekly. I will explain the relationship between the two in a little bit.
The ranking points above determines two things: your overall standing and your PVP rank
Overall standing is pretty straight forward, it's just from highest ranking points to lowest.
Your PVP rank is simply a lookup table (a quick check on the ranking website would show you this):
60k - rank 14
55k - rank 13
50k - rank 12
45k - rank 11
40k - rank 10
35k - rank 9
30k - rank 8
25k - rank 7
20k - rank 6
15k - rank 5
10k - rank 4
05k - rank 3
2.5k- rank 2
00k - rank 1*
*To make rank 1, you actually only need 25+ HK, from what I have gathered.
"So all I need to do is get those ranking points, cool! So why does it take months and months of 18 hours / day of honour farming to get to
rank 14?!"
I'm glad you asked that. You see, to make sure people do not stay on top of the rankings, Blizzard decided to add a weekly decay rate to your ranking points. After doing some cross reference analysis using multiple data points over 3 weeks, I figured that (at least for rank 3-6, but should be constant throughout the entire spectrum of ranks), the decay rate is at 20% of your ranking points. If you do not get more than 20% of your previous week's rating points, you will lose up to 10% decay or 2500 ranking points, whichever is less.
Taking myself as an example... I currently have 16562 points, if I pvp less and only get 2000 pts this week, next week I would lose around 3312-2000 = 1312 ranking points. If I do not pvp at all, I would lose 1656 (10%) points. That would also mean I would go down to rank 4 (14906) if I don't pvp at all.
In otherwords, if I don't want to gain any grounds, I have to gain at LEAST 3312 points to remain exactly where I am ranking points wise.
That is why the higher the rank, the slower you gain ranking points, you need to first get MORE than 20% of your current ranking points...
before you gain any grounds.
"Ok, so far that's good, I'll have to beat decay... so how the hell do I get ranking points?!"
Here's where your weekly honour comes in in a few ways.
First, your weekly honour determines your weekly standing.
Then the TOTAL honour on YOUR FACTION determines the POOL of ranking points available to everyone.
Then your weekly standing would determine how much of that pool you get.
So if your side pvp'ed /very/ heavily and your weekly standing's 400, you'd probably get more ranking points than if your side pvp'ed very lightly and your weekly standing's 200.
What does this all mean?
Taking myself for example: prev week my ranking points was 13359, and I decided to pvp much more heavily, and scored a standing of 76th last week. My total ranking points moved up to 16562. Given 20% decay on 13359, that means I actually got 5875 ranking points (decay ate 2671).
If I keep getting the same ranking points, that means my max total would break even at 5875/.2 = 29374, just shy of rank 8 (30k).
The biggest evil here, as you can see, is the 20% decay, which is laughable as blues stated "casual players would find it they would be very viable in the pvp honour system". I was NOT casual last week.. casual is 2-3 hours a night, and that was my previous weeks (standing around 300-400) doing nothing but pvp. Even then, my max achievable is at MOST rank 4-5, meaning I won't be able to get /any/ of the pvp gears
even if I worked week after week after week unlike grinding instances. I'm not talking about epics, but just let us get to rank 10 as casual players instead as the gear is not a lot superior to ones you find in high level (non-raid) instances... the amount of time required
to play each week is just not balancing out with the rewards vs pve time invested.
I hope folks found this an interesting read. |
Before I switched to Horde side, my Dwarven Priest had attained a rank of 12 with 27,187 hk's and a weekly pvp standing in the top 5.
| Quote: | | a) PVP Inactive people actually lose 10% OR 2500 ranking points / week, whichever is less. If you were active, you still lost 20%. |
I haven't played Abilabi in over a month since I started my rogue.
My rogue is currently ranked 24th on the server, 21,607 hk's with a "rating" of 42,560 
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FockTop
Sir Postalot
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1055
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 17:23 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | | I don't know what the p**s it takes to get above scout. I have like 400 HK's and 3000 honor. I know it changes from week to week but this seems like a lot for a casual gamer to still be stuck at shit-assed scout. |
Do you fight in BGs?
If so its impossible to get 400hks and only 3000 honor since 1 kill gives you at very least 100 honor it depend of ranks. Also after each battle if you win you get 1400 or so bonus honor and you also get a bonus if you lose...can range from zero to 1100 if I remember well
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FockTop
Sir Postalot
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1055
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 17:30 Post subject:
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| Abiwabi wrote: | | Occulis wrote: | | I don't know what the p**s it takes to get above scout. I have like 400 HK's and 3000 honor. I know it changes from week to week but this seems like a lot for a casual gamer to still be stuck at shit-assed scout. |
Since you asked....
| Quote: | Edit 1: Figured I'll put a summary of points here:
1) Unless you're in the absolute top 1 ( at most 2), you'll never see rank 14, ever, due to 20% decay to beat before gaining any grounds.
2) Unless you keep pvping more and more and more, you WILL hit a glass ceiling due to your playtime, again, due to 20% decay
3) The ceiling in 2) used to be that most people will never see rank 7+ (by design), now (post 1. most will never see rank 10+. Most being dedicated PvPers who do nothing but BG when they log on
Edit 2:
Thanks to Zeldyan From Alleria on the PVP forum for correcting my understanding of decay IF you did not beat 20% of your original ranking points, you will only lose up to 10% or 2500, whichever is less. My original post was wrong, you never lose more than 2500 rating points, ever.
I don't know how many have sat down and figured out the exact system of ranking points and ranks, but I thought I'd post it here for people to read. Forgive me if any of this was already proven wrong by others.
With the web site ( https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/index.html ) that showed us what is our overall standing and "rating", I wanted to see how far my given play time can get me in this pvp system, and being a system analyst, I thought, what the hell, it'd be neat to figure it out.
Let me quickly explain what the numbers on that page means:
Standing is your overall standing on your server for your faction, Lifetime kills is the total number of honourable kills you have ever
received, rating is the famed ranking points you have. This ranking points is that "hidden" number behind that nice little progress bar you have on your honour tab.
Please note that this ranking points is NOT your honour points get (and wiped) weekly. I will explain the relationship between the two in a little bit.
The ranking points above determines two things: your overall standing and your PVP rank
Overall standing is pretty straight forward, it's just from highest ranking points to lowest.
Your PVP rank is simply a lookup table (a quick check on the ranking website would show you this):
60k - rank 14
55k - rank 13
50k - rank 12
45k - rank 11
40k - rank 10
35k - rank 9
30k - rank 8
25k - rank 7
20k - rank 6
15k - rank 5
10k - rank 4
05k - rank 3
2.5k- rank 2
00k - rank 1*
*To make rank 1, you actually only need 25+ HK, from what I have gathered.
"So all I need to do is get those ranking points, cool! So why does it take months and months of 18 hours / day of honour farming to get to
rank 14?!"
I'm glad you asked that. You see, to make sure people do not stay on top of the rankings, Blizzard decided to add a weekly decay rate to your ranking points. After doing some cross reference analysis using multiple data points over 3 weeks, I figured that (at least for rank 3-6, but should be constant throughout the entire spectrum of ranks), the decay rate is at 20% of your ranking points. If you do not get more than 20% of your previous week's rating points, you will lose up to 10% decay or 2500 ranking points, whichever is less.
Taking myself as an example... I currently have 16562 points, if I pvp less and only get 2000 pts this week, next week I would lose around 3312-2000 = 1312 ranking points. If I do not pvp at all, I would lose 1656 (10%) points. That would also mean I would go down to rank 4 (14906) if I don't pvp at all.
In otherwords, if I don't want to gain any grounds, I have to gain at LEAST 3312 points to remain exactly where I am ranking points wise.
That is why the higher the rank, the slower you gain ranking points, you need to first get MORE than 20% of your current ranking points...
before you gain any grounds.
"Ok, so far that's good, I'll have to beat decay... so how the hell do I get ranking points?!"
Here's where your weekly honour comes in in a few ways.
First, your weekly honour determines your weekly standing.
Then the TOTAL honour on YOUR FACTION determines the POOL of ranking points available to everyone.
Then your weekly standing would determine how much of that pool you get.
So if your side pvp'ed /very/ heavily and your weekly standing's 400, you'd probably get more ranking points than if your side pvp'ed very lightly and your weekly standing's 200.
What does this all mean?
Taking myself for example: prev week my ranking points was 13359, and I decided to pvp much more heavily, and scored a standing of 76th last week. My total ranking points moved up to 16562. Given 20% decay on 13359, that means I actually got 5875 ranking points (decay ate 2671).
If I keep getting the same ranking points, that means my max total would break even at 5875/.2 = 29374, just shy of rank 8 (30k).
The biggest evil here, as you can see, is the 20% decay, which is laughable as blues stated "casual players would find it they would be very viable in the pvp honour system". I was NOT casual last week.. casual is 2-3 hours a night, and that was my previous weeks (standing around 300-400) doing nothing but pvp. Even then, my max achievable is at MOST rank 4-5, meaning I won't be able to get /any/ of the pvp gears
even if I worked week after week after week unlike grinding instances. I'm not talking about epics, but just let us get to rank 10 as casual players instead as the gear is not a lot superior to ones you find in high level (non-raid) instances... the amount of time required
to play each week is just not balancing out with the rewards vs pve time invested.
I hope folks found this an interesting read. |
Before I switched to Horde side, my Dwarven Priest had attained a rank of 12 with 27,187 hk's and a weekly pvp standing in the top 5.
| Quote: | | a) PVP Inactive people actually lose 10% OR 2500 ranking points / week, whichever is less. If you were active, you still lost 20%. |
I haven't played Abilabi in over a month since I started my rogue.
My rogue is currently ranked 24th on the server, 21,607 hk's with a "rating" of 42,560 |
centurion or so? 21k Hks is normal but there can be people with same rank as you with 50k hks it really depend of if you take breaks and restart mass killing etc...
many warlord on my server range from 50k-90k HKs they reach rank 14 and then let others from their guild reach it so Hk it not the best indicator for PVP.
If you want to know if you can get higher in rank....look at your bar each week AND and your standing for the server, if you decide to play more and you are ranked currently 24th and decide ok I play more look at your standing if it increase to lets say : 8th then you can hope if you keep on like that for weeks to ncrease in rank.
Standing tells you if you play enough to reach number 1 and rank 14 but remember...those above you also look at standing...and odtn they are in uber guild and can let their friends play /leech for them just to make sure you never get their rank.
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Abiwabi
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 395
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 17:37 Post subject:
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Rogue= LT General actually. Your weekly pvp standing determines how much of your current level you will gain or lose.
As for "uber" guild. The guild I'm currently running has 2 of the 3 HWL's on the server.
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FockTop
Sir Postalot
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1055
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 17:48 Post subject:
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| Abiwabi wrote: | Rogue= LT General actually. Your weekly pvp standing determines how much of your current level you will gain or lose.
As for "uber" guild. The guild I'm currently running has 2 of the 3 HWL's on the server. |
ah yeah I forgot they allow more people to reach higher rank now.
Well going in BGs in group with a well geared guild is a huge advantage you quite often fight against pick up groups and i can end up in a carnage of 2000/30 in AB thats our record.
sadly even if you decide to play 6 hours a day even if you are scout you wont get up in rank if everyone else decide to play 8 hours a day hehe...
keep an eye on your standing...if you cannot play enough to go up just stop PVP, dont waste your time.
PVP is not about skill at all, its all about play time, and gears.
And also, if you arent i na uber guild...you need to PVP a lot more to catch up on them...necause uber guild rarely lose in BGs, which mean they get the full bonus for honor for each victory...1400.
Now if you lose often depending of how fast....you can get a bonus that range like I said from zero...to like 1100...
Do the math Uber/well geared team have a huge advantage they dont need to play as much as you or to kill as many as you to get the same number of honor then you.
they can get 50,000 honor point a day for a few hours of play while because of all your lost battle you may need 10 hours of play time a day to get that 50,000 honor point.
Now if they look at their standing and see that you play 12 hours a day to catch up on them...they will just play a bit more...and s***w you up because the system is based on everyone's performance not just yours.
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Abiwabi
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 395
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 23:28 Post subject:
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On a good day with BG holidy bonus honor , we average about 80k honor a day.
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NickPSH
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5680
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Posted: 11/01/05 - 23:59 Post subject:
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| Abiwabi wrote: | Rogue= LT General actually. Your weekly pvp standing determines how much of your current level you will gain or lose.
As for "uber" guild. The guild I'm currently running has 2 of the 3 HWL's on the server. |
Sup, my guild has all of em e-peen in the faaaaaaaace holllaaaa
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FockTop
Sir Postalot
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 1055
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Posted: 11/02/05 - 14:13 Post subject:
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| Abiwabi wrote: | | On a good day with BG holidy bonus honor , we average about 80k honor a day. |
80k is a full day of playing 10-12 hours
But if you keep this up all week dont be surprised if your eye hurt next time you open the door to go outside.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 11/02/05 - 14:16 Post subject:
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So far, I haven't lost to anyone in 1v1 battle, no matter how they're geared so... I dunno what to expect at 60, but since I'll spend almost all my time at 60 killing civilians and level 15's, I imagine I won't care.
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Majy
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1713
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Posted: 11/11/05 - 16:10 Post subject:
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| FockTop wrote: | | Abiwabi wrote: | | On a good day with BG holidy bonus honor , we average about 80k honor a day. |
80k is a full day of playing 10-12 hours
But if you keep this up all week dont be surprised if your eye hurt next time you open the door to go outside. |
Holy ass.. on my server on a holiday the hardcore players get like 300k+ in a day =/
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Gethy
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5599
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Posted: 11/11/05 - 16:38 Post subject:
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40 minute queues and retarded pugs really put a damper on gaining honor.
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