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Tura
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 4865
Location: Raleigh, NC
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 Posted: 01/20/05 - 13:35 Post subject: My predictions made on 1-19-05 12:00pm
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After the inaugural address is over the left is going to go stir crazy about how many references Bush made about God. I can almost feel them seething in their boots right now.
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 13:41 Post subject:
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I am a Republican and it bothered me. This country was founded on religious diversity. Religion is a very personal affair, and as a matter of faith it is not really debatable - you either believe or you do not and there is no scientific proof. As a corollary, if your beliefs are correct, anyone who differs is necessarily wrong.
Due to the above, I firmly believe religion should be kept within the personal sphere of life - your home, your church, etc. A very basic nondenominational recognition of "God" is fine as a tribute to the majority of our country, but Bush is way overboard as usual.
So STFU Mr. President!
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 13:48 Post subject:
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America elected a religious person, so America has no right to complain he speaks of religion. Especially since he's doing so in a positive context. In plenty of aspects, religion is completely positive. Work hard, be ethical, be kind, etc.
I'm not religious and I don't like Bush much, but if it bothered me so much I would have voted for an athiest.
Except none ever seem to run.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 13:53 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | I am a Republican and it bothered me. This country was founded on religious diversity. Religion is a very personal affair, and as a matter of faith it is not really debatable - you either believe or you do not and there is no scientific proof. As a corollary, if your beliefs are correct, anyone who differs is necessarily wrong.
Due to the above, I firmly believe religion should be kept within the personal sphere of life - your home, your church, etc. A very basic nondenominational recognition of "God" is fine as a tribute to the majority of our country, but Bush is way overboard as usual.
So STFU Mr. President! |
No...one of the many principles the country was founded on was that the federal government does not have the power to form a national religion. New York technically has the power to outlaw Jews under the constitution.
Even Washington closed his address thus:
| Quote: | | Having thus imported to you my sentiments, as they have been awakened by the occasion which brings us together, I shall take my present leave; but not without resorting once more to the benign parent of the human race, in humble supplication that since he has been pleased to favour the American people, with opportunities for deliberating in perfect tranquility, and dispositions for deciding with unparellelled unanimity on a form of Government, for the security of their Union, and the advancement of their happiness; so His divine blessing may be equally conspicuous in the enlarged views, the temperate consultations, and the wise measures on which the success of this Government must depend. |
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Melee
Luke Warm
Joined: 24 Mar 2003
Posts: 185
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 13:55 Post subject: Re: My predictions made on 1-19-05 12:00pm
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| Tura wrote: | | After the inaugural address is over the left is going to go stir crazy about how many references Bush made about God. I can almost feel them seething in their boots right now. |
Maybe if he wrote his own speeches.
Do you really think GWB is intelligent enough to even write a ledgible speech?
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 13:59 Post subject:
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I know that Confused, so let me be more clear. I was saying that even in our earliest days of the founders our country was comprised of people of varying religions - Anglicans, Catholics, Protestants, Quakers, even some Jews. They all shared a belief in god but the specifics of their faith were different.
Either way that was then, this is now. We live in a diverse society, and religion is such a personal subject, based in FAITH and not fact, that it should be left to the personal sphere of life. I am glad Bush found religion, if it helps him get through his days, fine - but he doesn't need to tell us about it.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 14:00 Post subject: Re: My predictions made on 1-19-05 12:00pm
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| Melee wrote: | | Tura wrote: | | After the inaugural address is over the left is going to go stir crazy about how many references Bush made about God. I can almost feel them seething in their boots right now. |
Maybe if he wrote his own speeches.
Do you really think GWB is intelligent enough to even write a ledgible speech? |
legible?
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Tura
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 4865
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 14:00 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | One Nation, under God. |
This is what our country was founded on. Yes, there is freedom of religion in the USA. Muslims, Jews, Buddists, anyone can live here and not be persecuted for their beliefs. But to say that God should be locked away in the church and kept there as to not offend anyone else is bending over farther than we should have to. That, in itself is a form of persecution. This country was founded under God, not under nothing. If someone wants to move here they don't have to believe in God or de-nounce their own religion but they DO have to respect that this nation was founded under this belief.
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 14:07 Post subject:
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There is a reason religion is different Tura. If you are to debate politics, sports, economics or any topic you may be discussing opinions, but those are based in facts and numbers, and scientific methods.
The very core of religion is faith in that which cannot be seen or proved, and anyone affirming their own 1 view on religion is by inference stating that all others are wrong, and the subject is not open for debate.
The most successful societies in history are those which have had a vibrant religious life that is predominantly separate from the public and government sphere.
"To God what is his, and unto Caesar what is his" rough paraphrase, but great quote from the Bible about separation.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 14:07 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | I know that Confused, so let me be more clear. I was saying that even in our earliest days of the founders our country was comprised of people of varying religions - Anglicans, Catholics, Protestants, Quakers, even some Jews. They all shared a belief in god but the specifics of their faith were different.
Either way that was then, this is now. We live in a diverse society, and religion is such a personal subject, based in FAITH and not fact, that it should be left to the personal sphere of life. I am glad Bush found religion, if it helps him get through his days, fine - but he doesn't need to tell us about it. |
I didn't hear him preaching. I heard him mention "God". Don't Jews refer to Him as "God" as well? Don't even our enemies even refer to Him as God? The only people a reference to God might offend is atheists, but who gives a f**k? It's not like he was up there saying Americans must accept Jesus into their hearts.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 14:15 Post subject:
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This is almost as important as my thread on warrior talent specs.
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Tura
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 4865
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 14:15 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: | | Vekril wrote: | I know that Confused, so let me be more clear. I was saying that even in our earliest days of the founders our country was comprised of people of varying religions - Anglicans, Catholics, Protestants, Quakers, even some Jews. They all shared a belief in god but the specifics of their faith were different.
Either way that was then, this is now. We live in a diverse society, and religion is such a personal subject, based in FAITH and not fact, that it should be left to the personal sphere of life. I am glad Bush found religion, if it helps him get through his days, fine - but he doesn't need to tell us about it. |
I didn't hear him preaching. I heard him mention "God". Don't Jews refer to Him as "God" as well? Don't even our enemies even refer to Him as God? The only people a reference to God might offend is atheists, but who gives a f**k? It's not like he was up there saying Americans must accept Jesus into their hearts. |
My point....Its not an agenda of anyones to bash Jesus into anyones head at all. Like confused said, the name Jesus wasn't even mentioned, they stuck to terms like God, and Lord. No ones forcing anyone to believe anything at all Vekril, and just because the President believes in God and makes it known he does, is no reason at all to be upset.
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 14:28 Post subject: Re: My predictions made on 1-19-05 12:00pm
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| Melee wrote: | | Tura wrote: | | After the inaugural address is over the left is going to go stir crazy about how many references Bush made about God. I can almost feel them seething in their boots right now. |
Maybe if he wrote his own speeches.
Do you really think GWB is intelligent enough to even write a ledgible speech? |
Idiot.
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Starks
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 865
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 16:01 Post subject:
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The "under God" in the pledge of allegiance was added in the 1950's due to the McCarthyism. "One nation under God indivisible with justice for all." Notice there is no comma after one nation. Yet we say it like there is because when our fathers were in school, they were used to saying it the original way. Then they threw in the under God. They had to adapt and think about it, hence the pause. God does not belong in government.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 16:23 Post subject:
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| Starks wrote: | | The "under God" in the pledge of allegiance was added in the 1950's due to the McCarthyism. "One nation under God indivisible with justice for all." Notice there is no comma after one nation. Yet we say it like there is because when our fathers were in school, they were used to saying it the original way. Then they threw in the under God. They had to adapt and think about it, hence the pause. God does not belong in government. |
Same as the change on US Currency:
http://ffrf.org/timely/igwt/
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 16:23 Post subject:
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| Starks wrote: | | The "under God" in the pledge of allegiance was added in the 1950's due to the McCarthyism. "One nation under God indivisible with justice for all." Notice there is no comma after one nation. Yet we say it like there is because when our fathers were in school, they were used to saying it the original way. Then they threw in the under God. They had to adapt and think about it, hence the pause. God does not belong in government. |
The pledge wasn't even written until the country was 115 years old and was written by a private citizen. Yet since the beginning of our nation, Congress has begun its session with a prayer. I win.
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Tura
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 4865
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 17:41 Post subject:
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It doesnt matter if that phrase was coined 100 years ago or yesterday afternoon at 3:09pm. The point is that no ones pushing Christianity on anyone here and people need to be a little less aggressive about hearing the words God or Jesus from a public speaker.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 17:57 Post subject:
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| Tura wrote: | | It doesnt matter if that phrase was coined 100 years ago or yesterday afternoon at 3:09pm. The point is that no ones pushing Christianity on anyone here and people need to be a little less aggressive about hearing the words God or Jesus from a public speaker. |
Yeah esp the f*****g president. heh
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Tura
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 4865
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: 01/20/05 - 18:55 Post subject:
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expeschily!
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Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 3086
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Posted: 01/21/05 - 00:41 Post subject:
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He made many God references, but all in the same sentence as stuff as 'liberty', 'freedom', 'justice', 'democracy', etc. I don't know about you, but that stuff is A-OK with me!
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 01/21/05 - 01:38 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | I know that Confused, so let me be more clear. I was saying that even in our earliest days of the founders our country was comprised of people of varying religions - Anglicans, Catholics, Protestants, Quakers, even some Jews. They all shared a belief in god but the specifics of their faith were different.
Either way that was then, this is now. We live in a diverse society, and religion is such a personal subject, based in FAITH and not fact, that it should be left to the personal sphere of life. I am glad Bush found religion, if it helps him get through his days, fine - but he doesn't need to tell us about it. |
Its a free country, he can if he wants.
I think you need a colonic.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 01/21/05 - 02:15 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | There is a reason religion is different Tura. If you are to debate politics, sports, economics or any topic you may be discussing opinions, but those are based in facts and numbers, and scientific methods.
The very core of religion is faith in that which cannot be seen or proved, and anyone affirming their own 1 view on religion is by inference stating that all others are wrong, and the subject is not open for debate.
The most successful societies in history are those which have had a vibrant religious life that is predominantly separate from the public and government sphere.
"To God what is his, and unto Caesar what is his" rough paraphrase, but great quote from the Bible about separation. |
I think you're a bit off base here, Vekril. I didn't hear Bush saying, 'We will smite then down because God says so'. He repeatedly mentioned our Founding Fathers' and their belief in universal freedom and liberty. He also spoke on how those ideals have grown to become American ideals. He mentioned God because he believes in him, not as a justification for doing anything.
I'm an atheist and I'm tired of hearing people complain about this nonsense. Mentioning God in a speech is NOT prohibitted in any way by the Constitution. Nothing, in any law or ammendment, states that public religious expressions are prohibitted. If it offends you, that's just really too bad. There's nothing offensive in it unless you are looking to be offended.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 01/21/05 - 02:17 Post subject:
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| Starks wrote: | | The "under God" in the pledge of allegiance was added in the 1950's due to the McCarthyism. "One nation under God indivisible with justice for all." Notice there is no comma after one nation. Yet we say it like there is because when our fathers were in school, they were used to saying it the original way. Then they threw in the under God. They had to adapt and think about it, hence the pause. God does not belong in government. |
Why is it that every time this discussion comes up, someone posts this as though it means something?
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 01/21/05 - 02:24 Post subject:
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What he said today didn't really bother me Nuldaan, it was mostly general mentions, a few too many for my taste, but whatever.
What did really scare me was last week in a well publicized interview Bush said something close to this: "I do not see how anyone could be President without a close personal relationship with the almighty."
That means our President believes that people are not qualified or fit for any position of great power or responsibility if they are not deeply religious. I am NOT ok with that. That is our President saying he thinks religious people are superior to non-religious. f**k him and his butt budy Jesus up the ass with rusty crowbars if he thinks like that...
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Isriam
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2721
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Posted: 01/21/05 - 02:30 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | What he said today didn't really bother me Nuldaan, it was mostly general mentions, a few too many for my taste, but whatever.
What did really scare me was last week in a well publicized interview Bush said something close to this: "I do not see how anyone could be President without a close personal relationship with the almighty."
That means our President believes that people are not qualified or fit for any position of great power or responsibility if they are not deeply religious. I am NOT ok with that. That is our President saying he thinks religious people are superior to non-religious. f**k him and his butt budy Jesus up the ass with rusty crowbars if he thinks like that... |
what the f**k do you think you're f*****g b******g about? someone saying a f*****g word too f*****g often? well f**k you, you're f*****g stupid. who cares what the f**k he said, what you think, or how the f**k you care his speech should sound. shut the f**k up. its a free f*****g country.
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 01/21/05 - 02:48 Post subject:
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Isriam said
| Quote: | | f**k f**k f*****g f**k f**k I AM AN IDIOT f**k f*****g f****d f****r fuckity f**k f**k |
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Zonk
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 976
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Posted: 01/21/05 - 03:38 Post subject:
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I am a christian but i wouldnt care if Bush said we are going to summon Zues from Mount Olympus to smite the terrorists with Thunder Bolts. As long as he is doing what is right i dont care.
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Isriam
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2721
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Posted: 01/21/05 - 05:43 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | Isriam said
| Quote: | | f**k f**k f*****g f**k f**k I AM AN IDIOT f**k f*****g f****d f****r fuckity f**k f**k |
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Whats the matter Vekril, couldn't see the stupidity in your post? You're such a great message board flamer.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 01/21/05 - 06:23 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | What he said today didn't really bother me Nuldaan, it was mostly general mentions, a few too many for my taste, but whatever.
What did really scare me was last week in a well publicized interview Bush said something close to this: "I do not see how anyone could be President without a close personal relationship with the almighty."
That means our President believes that people are not qualified or fit for any position of great power or responsibility if they are not deeply religious. I am NOT ok with that. That is our President saying he thinks religious people are superior to non-religious. f**k him and his butt budy Jesus up the ass with rusty crowbars if he thinks like that... |
I didn't hear that interview but that point is fair enough. I still feel that he is entitled to his beliefs but I can see why that would concern people.
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Aluaeia
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 5670
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Posted: 01/21/05 - 06:26 Post subject:
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| Zonk wrote: | | I am a christian but i wouldnt care if Bush said we are going to summon Zues from Mount Olympus to smite the terrorists with Thunder Bolts. As long as he is doing what is right i dont care. |
Problem: Since when has Bush II done what is right? (unless it coincides with what his pals in big business or the guys daddy owes a favor to want)
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