My favorite phrase to ponder from time to time.

I hope I have this right

"The limits of my language are the limits of my world"

I don't know who said it but it's so cool to sit there and think about it.. it just goes to show how infinitely small and underdeveloped our brains are as humans. As complex as they are they are tied to language and familiar patterns and completely stop functioning when faced with unfamiliar or totally new situations.

Discuss.

-Nah-

My girlfriend and I spent the weekend talking about this a lot, as a matter of fact. It really does make you think about how, while we are the most developed organisms on this planet, that our brain functions at such a small percent of its overall potential, and how new things come so difficult to almost everyone.

One thing that I muse over from time to time is the fact that we stop 'learning' new things through development of our brain by around the age of eight, and learning after that takes place merely from memorization.

Then study another language.

Jinu wrote:

Then study another language.

I think that's where computers take over...We provide the input, we provide the language that the machine can understand, it performs several tasks that no human can perform on his/her own.


Pretty scary :O

Syke wrote:

Jinu wrote: Then study another language. I think that's where computers take over...We provide the input, we provide the language that the machine can understand, it performs several tasks that no human can perform on his/her own. Pretty scary :O

Yeah, it really is. Terminator is going to be a Historical Document rather than a film in the next 75 years Or we're going to be in Nuclear Winter. One of the two.

Ikkan wrote:

My girlfriend and I spent the weekend talking about this a lot, as a matter of fact. It really does make you think about how, while we are the most developed organisms on this planet, that our brain functions at such a small percent of its overall potential, and how new things come so difficult to almost everyone. One thing that I muse over from time to time is the fact that we stop 'learning' new things through development of our brain by around the age of eight, and learning after that takes place merely from memorization.

This is retarded.

Your brain, along with the rest of your body, ceases to grow in mass and function once you reach maturity. Just like every other (chordate) animal on the face of the planet.

But you can still learn so-called "new things" until the day that you die. If you're only using a small percentage of your brain's potential, that's your own fault.

Even the smartest minds in the world only use, what... 18% of their total brain?

Yes, that is a small small percentage of what we're capable of.

Xarpolis wrote:

Even the smartest minds in the world only use, what... 18% of their total brain? Yes, that is a small small percentage of what we're capable of.

I used to think this also but I started reading a lot of material on it and it's pretty much a myth.

-Nah-

Xarpolis wrote:

Even the smartest minds in the world only use, what... 18% of their total brain? Yes, that is a small small percentage of what we're capable of.

Christ. Go find the snopes page on the "10% of our brain" myth.

Your brain isn't like a floppy disk. You can't go in for an fMRI and have a doctor tell you, "You use approximately 12.821% of your brain matter." Saying you only "use" 18% is like saying you only use 11% of your biceps and 29% of your diaphragm. Retarded.

Krumble wrote:

Ikkan wrote: My girlfriend and I spent the weekend talking about this a lot, as a matter of fact. It really does make you think about how, while we are the most developed organisms on this planet, that our brain functions at such a small percent of its overall potential, and how new things come so difficult to almost everyone. One thing that I muse over from time to time is the fact that we stop 'learning' new things through development of our brain by around the age of eight, and learning after that takes place merely from memorization. This is retarded. Your brain, along with the rest of your body, ceases to grow in mass and function once you reach maturity. Just like every other (chordate) animal on the face of the planet. But you can still learn so-called "new things" until the day that you die. If you're only using a small percentage of your brain's potential, that's your own fault.

What I meant was that learning things is, much easier I suppose you could say, as a child. That is why some children in other countries outside of the U.S.A. can learn two or three languages to a fairly large extent and be able to use correct grammar and accent with decent accuracy, as opposed to someone who starts learning two other languages at the age of twenty.

Jinu - grats on missing the point entirely.

Humans are a species that while capable of reasoning, do this in language. Not the use of actual gutteral language but of ideas in the form of words. You cannot imagine something there is no word for. Even when you think to yourself you are thinking to yourself in language. That's what I mean by being limited to our language. Even if you spoke every language in the world you would be limited to the ideas, concepts and images that those languages could collectively contrive, which is essentially, the same thing. The difference between the Chinese word for "dog" and the English word for "dog" ?? A few lines a few sounds. They both encompass the same concept and associated imagery. Learning more languages isn't the answer.

When an artist paints, when a musician makes music, when someone tells a story, they do this following images and ideas in their heads.. images and ideas expressed in language.

What's the FIRST thing a human does when he/she encounters something unknown? Like an animal they have never seen or a shade of a color that is new and striking to them? They try to equate it to something they already know "well it sorta looked like a cross between a cat and a bear....." or "it was kinda like midnight blue only much much more intense....."

Humans' minds possess an instinct that immediately attempts to make logical sense out of an illogical or just a new situation. Hence we will always be limited by language and by reason.

-Nah-

Nahualli wrote:

-M-

WHAT IS THIS!

Ikkan wrote:

Nahualli wrote: -M- WHAT IS THIS!

My name is Marco.. at work I sign my emails as "-M-".. I f****d up and signed with that instead of Nah.. so there..

-Nah-

Nahualli wrote:

Ikkan wrote: Nahualli wrote: -M- WHAT IS THIS! My name is Marco.. at work I sign my emails as "-M-".. I f****d up and signed with that instead of Nah.. so there.. -Nah-

lol nah

Ikkan wrote:

Krumble wrote: Ikkan wrote: My girlfriend and I spent the weekend talking about this a lot, as a matter of fact. It really does make you think about how, while we are the most developed organisms on this planet, that our brain functions at such a small percent of its overall potential, and how new things come so difficult to almost everyone. One thing that I muse over from time to time is the fact that we stop 'learning' new things through development of our brain by around the age of eight, and learning after that takes place merely from memorization. This is retarded. Your brain, along with the rest of your body, ceases to grow in mass and function once you reach maturity. Just like every other (chordate) animal on the face of the planet. But you can still learn so-called "new things" until the day that you die. If you're only using a small percentage of your brain's potential, that's your own fault. What I meant was that learning things is, much easier I suppose you could say, as a child. That is why some children in other countries outside of the U.S.A. can learn two or three languages to a fairly large extent and be able to use correct grammar and accent with decent accuracy, as opposed to someone who starts learning two other languages at the age of twenty.

Ikkan, this is nonsense. The only difficulty a 20-year old has in learning a new language is 19 years of habit. It has nothing to do with his ability to learn. In fact, I think you'd notice that he picks it up much faster because his brain is more fully developed than the child's.

Studying additional languages opens your mind up to new ways of thinking, for example by learning the subtle differences in mentality between Eastern and Western cultures.

Concepts that are widely accepted in Eastern culture might be undeveloped in Western culture and vice versa.

Math can also be considered a language and studying advanced math I imagine can induce the mind to operate in different thinking patterns.

Nuldaan wrote:

Ikkan wrote: Krumble wrote: Ikkan wrote: My girlfriend and I spent the weekend talking about this a lot, as a matter of fact. It really does make you think about how, while we are the most developed organisms on this planet, that our brain functions at such a small percent of its overall potential, and how new things come so difficult to almost everyone. One thing that I muse over from time to time is the fact that we stop 'learning' new things through development of our brain by around the age of eight, and learning after that takes place merely from memorization. This is retarded. Your brain, along with the rest of your body, ceases to grow in mass and function once you reach maturity. Just like every other (chordate) animal on the face of the planet. But you can still learn so-called "new things" until the day that you die. If you're only using a small percentage of your brain's potential, that's your own fault. What I meant was that learning things is, much easier I suppose you could say, as a child. That is why some children in other countries outside of the U.S.A. can learn two or three languages to a fairly large extent and be able to use correct grammar and accent with decent accuracy, as opposed to someone who starts learning two other languages at the age of twenty. Ikkan, this is nonsense. The only difficulty a 20-year old has in learning a new language is 19 years of habit. It has nothing to do with his ability to learn. In fact, I think you'd notice that he picks it up much faster because his brain is more fully developed than the child's.

I've read a couple of books that include information citing what I said, I'll give you the names and info once I decide to drag my lazy a*s out of this chair and find them

We preceive reality by the forms known to us. The thing about learning stopping at age eight suposes that the average person has their forms set down at age eight, and any new forms learned must be a compalation of those already put down. Or that anything that doesn't comply with the way we view reality is bent in our mind to fit how we see it being, or outright rejected.

Hence, why most people behave on the lvl of an eight year old ^_^


There's more benifits thought to be gained by keeping your mind flexable in this respect other then not being a close minded idiot, improved mental function with age for one.


The limitation you speek of however, only holds true for those who alow it to. Remember all those previous conceptions within us we set down ourselves, and we remain free to set down whatever new ones and erease what old ones we see fit, it's true that laungage defines the human experiance, but don't get the order confused, things are experianced before they're defined. Other cultures are just the starting point from which you can broaden your base of experiances to draw from, so long as you can just go out, and look and ponder stuff, there'll always be an infinate verity of new experiances you can later invent the laungage for. Of course they'll only have meaning for you, unless you can translate them into the definitions shared by you with others.

Ikkan wrote:

I've read a couple of books that include information citing what I said, I'll give you the names and info once I decide to drag my lazy a*s out of this chair and find them

Fair enough. I'd be interested in seeing the support.

Everything I've ever read has stated the exact opposite. Children and adults are equally capable of learning. Adults only have difficulties due to habit.

To use the language example, a 20 year old English speaker has 19 years of thinking in English to overcome. It's not that he is less capable, it's that he has a bigger hurdle to overcome.

Regan wrote:

We preceive reality by the forms known to us. The thing about learning stopping at age eight suposes that the average person has their forms set down at age eight, and any new forms learned must be a compalation of those already put down. Or that anything that doesn't comply with the way we view reality is bent in our mind to fit how we see it being, or outright rejected. Hence, why most people behave on the lvl of an eight year old ^_^ There's more benifits thought to be gained by keeping your mind flexable in this respect other then not being a close minded idiot, improved mental function with age for one. The limitation you speek of however, only holds true for those who alow it to. Remember all those previous conceptions within us we set down ourselves, and we remain free to set down whatever new ones and erease what old ones we see fit, it's true that laungage defines the human experiance, but don't get the order confused, things are experianced before they're defined. Other cultures are just the starting point from which you can broaden your base of experiances to draw from, so long as you can just go out, and look and ponder stuff, there'll always be an infinate verity of new experiances you can later invent the laungage for. Of course they'll only have meaning for you, unless you can translate them into the definitions shared by you with others.

I think the point that Nah was driving at wasn't that people aren't capable of experiencing new things, it's that people are limitted by trying to equate new experiences with old experiences.

He's right in my opinion. When you run into something new, your first response is to equate it with something you know. Once that link has been made, you deal with the fact that it is something new.

As Nah pointed out, our method of describing new things supports this. You equate it to something you know because that is how our thoughts work. Our first instinct is to define what we are seeing or experiencing. Once the new object is defined, then you can create a new word for it.

This isn't to say that we aren't capable of dealing with a totally alien experience. If that was true, we'd go insane the moment we were born. However, your first response is always to define your new experiences through your old ones.