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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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 Posted: 04/21/04 - 14:26 Post subject: My favorite phrase to ponder from time to time.
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I hope I have this right
"The limits of my language are the limits of my world"
I don't know who said it but it's so cool to sit there and think about it.. it just goes to show how infinitely small and underdeveloped our brains are as humans. As complex as they are they are tied to language and familiar patterns and completely stop functioning when faced with unfamiliar or totally new situations.
Discuss.
-Nah-
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Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 3086
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 14:31 Post subject:
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My girlfriend and I spent the weekend talking about this a lot, as a matter of fact. It really does make you think about how, while we are the most developed organisms on this planet, that our brain functions at such a small percent of its overall potential, and how new things come so difficult to almost everyone.
One thing that I muse over from time to time is the fact that we stop 'learning' new things through development of our brain by around the age of eight, and learning after that takes place merely from memorization.
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Jinu
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 16:39 Post subject:
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Then study another language.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 17:42 Post subject:
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| Jinu wrote: | | Then study another language. |
I think that's where computers take over...We provide the input, we provide the language that the machine can understand, it performs several tasks that no human can perform on his/her own.
Pretty scary :O
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Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 3086
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 17:50 Post subject:
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| Syke wrote: | | Jinu wrote: | | Then study another language. |
I think that's where computers take over...We provide the input, we provide the language that the machine can understand, it performs several tasks that no human can perform on his/her own.
Pretty scary :O |
Yeah, it really is. Terminator is going to be a Historical Document rather than a film in the next 75 years  Or we're going to be in Nuclear Winter. One of the two.
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Krumble
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 771
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 17:52 Post subject:
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| Ikkan wrote: | My girlfriend and I spent the weekend talking about this a lot, as a matter of fact. It really does make you think about how, while we are the most developed organisms on this planet, that our brain functions at such a small percent of its overall potential, and how new things come so difficult to almost everyone.
One thing that I muse over from time to time is the fact that we stop 'learning' new things through development of our brain by around the age of eight, and learning after that takes place merely from memorization. |
This is retarded.
Your brain, along with the rest of your body, ceases to grow in mass and function once you reach maturity. Just like every other (chordate) animal on the face of the planet.
But you can still learn so-called "new things" until the day that you die. If you're only using a small percentage of your brain's potential, that's your own fault.
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Xarpolis
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2884
Location: Philly, PA
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 17:56 Post subject:
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Even the smartest minds in the world only use, what... 18% of their total brain?
Yes, that is a small small percentage of what we're capable of.
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 18:04 Post subject:
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| Xarpolis wrote: | Even the smartest minds in the world only use, what... 18% of their total brain?
Yes, that is a small small percentage of what we're capable of. |
I used to think this also but I started reading a lot of material on it and it's pretty much a myth.
-Nah-
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Krumble
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 771
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 18:10 Post subject:
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| Xarpolis wrote: | Even the smartest minds in the world only use, what... 18% of their total brain?
Yes, that is a small small percentage of what we're capable of. |
Christ. Go find the snopes page on the "10% of our brain" myth.
Your brain isn't like a floppy disk. You can't go in for an fMRI and have a doctor tell you, "You use approximately 12.821% of your brain matter." Saying you only "use" 18% is like saying you only use 11% of your biceps and 29% of your diaphragm. Retarded.
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Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 3086
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 18:10 Post subject:
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| Krumble wrote: | | Ikkan wrote: | My girlfriend and I spent the weekend talking about this a lot, as a matter of fact. It really does make you think about how, while we are the most developed organisms on this planet, that our brain functions at such a small percent of its overall potential, and how new things come so difficult to almost everyone.
One thing that I muse over from time to time is the fact that we stop 'learning' new things through development of our brain by around the age of eight, and learning after that takes place merely from memorization. |
This is retarded.
Your brain, along with the rest of your body, ceases to grow in mass and function once you reach maturity. Just like every other (chordate) animal on the face of the planet.
But you can still learn so-called "new things" until the day that you die. If you're only using a small percentage of your brain's potential, that's your own fault. |
What I meant was that learning things is, much easier I suppose you could say, as a child. That is why some children in other countries outside of the U.S.A. can learn two or three languages to a fairly large extent and be able to use correct grammar and accent with decent accuracy, as opposed to someone who starts learning two other languages at the age of twenty.
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 18:11 Post subject:
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Jinu - grats on missing the point entirely.
Humans are a species that while capable of reasoning, do this in language. Not the use of actual gutteral language but of ideas in the form of words. You cannot imagine something there is no word for. Even when you think to yourself you are thinking to yourself in language. That's what I mean by being limited to our language. Even if you spoke every language in the world you would be limited to the ideas, concepts and images that those languages could collectively contrive, which is essentially, the same thing. The difference between the Chinese word for "dog" and the English word for "dog" ?? A few lines a few sounds. They both encompass the same concept and associated imagery. Learning more languages isn't the answer.
When an artist paints, when a musician makes music, when someone tells a story, they do this following images and ideas in their heads.. images and ideas expressed in language.
What's the FIRST thing a human does when he/she encounters something unknown? Like an animal they have never seen or a shade of a color that is new and striking to them? They try to equate it to something they already know "well it sorta looked like a cross between a cat and a bear....." or "it was kinda like midnight blue only much much more intense....."
Humans' minds possess an instinct that immediately attempts to make logical sense out of an illogical or just a new situation. Hence we will always be limited by language and by reason.
-Nah-
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Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 18:13 Post subject:
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WHAT IS THIS!
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 18:15 Post subject:
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| Ikkan wrote: |
WHAT IS THIS! |
My name is Marco.. at work I sign my emails as "-M-".. I f****d up and signed with that instead of Nah.. so there.. 
-Nah-
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Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 18:17 Post subject:
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| Nahualli wrote: | | Ikkan wrote: |
WHAT IS THIS! |
My name is Marco.. at work I sign my emails as "-M-".. I f****d up and signed with that instead of Nah.. so there..
-Nah- |
lol nah 
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 18:40 Post subject:
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| Ikkan wrote: | | Krumble wrote: | | Ikkan wrote: | My girlfriend and I spent the weekend talking about this a lot, as a matter of fact. It really does make you think about how, while we are the most developed organisms on this planet, that our brain functions at such a small percent of its overall potential, and how new things come so difficult to almost everyone.
One thing that I muse over from time to time is the fact that we stop 'learning' new things through development of our brain by around the age of eight, and learning after that takes place merely from memorization. |
This is retarded.
Your brain, along with the rest of your body, ceases to grow in mass and function once you reach maturity. Just like every other (chordate) animal on the face of the planet.
But you can still learn so-called "new things" until the day that you die. If you're only using a small percentage of your brain's potential, that's your own fault. |
What I meant was that learning things is, much easier I suppose you could say, as a child. That is why some children in other countries outside of the U.S.A. can learn two or three languages to a fairly large extent and be able to use correct grammar and accent with decent accuracy, as opposed to someone who starts learning two other languages at the age of twenty. |
Ikkan, this is nonsense. The only difficulty a 20-year old has in learning a new language is 19 years of habit. It has nothing to do with his ability to learn. In fact, I think you'd notice that he picks it up much faster because his brain is more fully developed than the child's.
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Jinu
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 18:41 Post subject:
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Studying additional languages opens your mind up to new ways of thinking, for example by learning the subtle differences in mentality between Eastern and Western cultures.
Concepts that are widely accepted in Eastern culture might be undeveloped in Western culture and vice versa.
Math can also be considered a language and studying advanced math I imagine can induce the mind to operate in different thinking patterns.
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Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 3086
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 18:45 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | | Ikkan wrote: | | Krumble wrote: | | Ikkan wrote: | My girlfriend and I spent the weekend talking about this a lot, as a matter of fact. It really does make you think about how, while we are the most developed organisms on this planet, that our brain functions at such a small percent of its overall potential, and how new things come so difficult to almost everyone.
One thing that I muse over from time to time is the fact that we stop 'learning' new things through development of our brain by around the age of eight, and learning after that takes place merely from memorization. |
This is retarded.
Your brain, along with the rest of your body, ceases to grow in mass and function once you reach maturity. Just like every other (chordate) animal on the face of the planet.
But you can still learn so-called "new things" until the day that you die. If you're only using a small percentage of your brain's potential, that's your own fault. |
What I meant was that learning things is, much easier I suppose you could say, as a child. That is why some children in other countries outside of the U.S.A. can learn two or three languages to a fairly large extent and be able to use correct grammar and accent with decent accuracy, as opposed to someone who starts learning two other languages at the age of twenty. |
Ikkan, this is nonsense. The only difficulty a 20-year old has in learning a new language is 19 years of habit. It has nothing to do with his ability to learn. In fact, I think you'd notice that he picks it up much faster because his brain is more fully developed than the child's. |
I've read a couple of books that include information citing what I said, I'll give you the names and info once I decide to drag my lazy ass out of this chair and find them
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Regan
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 751
Location: Miami
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 18:56 Post subject:
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We preceive reality by the forms known to us. The thing about learning stopping at age eight suposes that the average person has their forms set down at age eight, and any new forms learned must be a compalation of those already put down. Or that anything that doesn't comply with the way we view reality is bent in our mind to fit how we see it being, or outright rejected.
Hence, why most people behave on the lvl of an eight year old ^_^
There's more benifits thought to be gained by keeping your mind flexable in this respect other then not being a close minded idiot, improved mental function with age for one.
The limitation you speek of however, only holds true for those who alow it to. Remember all those previous conceptions within us we set down ourselves, and we remain free to set down whatever new ones and erease what old ones we see fit, it's true that laungage defines the human experiance, but don't get the order confused, things are experianced before they're defined. Other cultures are just the starting point from which you can broaden your base of experiances to draw from, so long as you can just go out, and look and ponder stuff, there'll always be an infinate verity of new experiances you can later invent the laungage for. Of course they'll only have meaning for you, unless you can translate them into the definitions shared by you with others.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 19:00 Post subject:
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| Ikkan wrote: | | I've read a couple of books that include information citing what I said, I'll give you the names and info once I decide to drag my lazy ass out of this chair and find them |
Fair enough. I'd be interested in seeing the support.
Everything I've ever read has stated the exact opposite. Children and adults are equally capable of learning. Adults only have difficulties due to habit.
To use the language example, a 20 year old English speaker has 19 years of thinking in English to overcome. It's not that he is less capable, it's that he has a bigger hurdle to overcome.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 19:11 Post subject:
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| Regan wrote: | We preceive reality by the forms known to us. The thing about learning stopping at age eight suposes that the average person has their forms set down at age eight, and any new forms learned must be a compalation of those already put down. Or that anything that doesn't comply with the way we view reality is bent in our mind to fit how we see it being, or outright rejected.
Hence, why most people behave on the lvl of an eight year old ^_^
There's more benifits thought to be gained by keeping your mind flexable in this respect other then not being a close minded idiot, improved mental function with age for one.
The limitation you speek of however, only holds true for those who alow it to. Remember all those previous conceptions within us we set down ourselves, and we remain free to set down whatever new ones and erease what old ones we see fit, it's true that laungage defines the human experiance, but don't get the order confused, things are experianced before they're defined. Other cultures are just the starting point from which you can broaden your base of experiances to draw from, so long as you can just go out, and look and ponder stuff, there'll always be an infinate verity of new experiances you can later invent the laungage for. Of course they'll only have meaning for you, unless you can translate them into the definitions shared by you with others. |
I think the point that Nah was driving at wasn't that people aren't capable of experiencing new things, it's that people are limitted by trying to equate new experiences with old experiences.
He's right in my opinion. When you run into something new, your first response is to equate it with something you know. Once that link has been made, you deal with the fact that it is something new.
As Nah pointed out, our method of describing new things supports this. You equate it to something you know because that is how our thoughts work. Our first instinct is to define what we are seeing or experiencing. Once the new object is defined, then you can create a new word for it.
This isn't to say that we aren't capable of dealing with a totally alien experience. If that was true, we'd go insane the moment we were born. However, your first response is always to define your new experiences through your old ones.
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Neone
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 524
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 19:12 Post subject:
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Just because its written in a book, doesnt make it true.
And what we are debating here would be true, but new words are made every day, which sorta voids that statement if you 'really' want to think about it.
eg. It looked sorta like a bear crossed with a cat, ill call it a Maelies.
I see another animal, oh, it looked like a Maelies crossed with a rat. And that new animal will have a name made up for it. Apply this to other situations.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 19:19 Post subject:
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| Neone wrote: | | Just because its written in a book, doesnt make it true. |
This is a dumb argument. No one has ever stated as such. The fact that it's written in a book doesn't make it untrue either. The reason we give references is so the other side can see your sources and judge their validity.
| Neone wrote: |
And what we are debating here would be true, but new words are made every day, which sorta voids that statement if you 'really' want to think about it.
eg. It looked sorta like a bear crossed with a cat, ill call it a Maelies.
I see another animal, oh, it looked like a Maelies crossed with a rat. And that new animal will have a name made up for it. Apply this to other situations. |
You actually proved Nah's point. To use your own example, when you encounter a new animal, you define it in terms of two old animals. Once it is defined, you create a word for it. Now the new experience is part of your language. When you think of this new animal, you don't think of a picture, you think of the new word. All you've done is assimilate the new object into your language by defining it in terms of your existing vocabulary.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 19:32 Post subject:
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Words are only references to things that have meaning. You can find meaning in something, because it exists. The fact that you see it, hear it, smell it, taste it, touch it, means it's there and it has "some" meaning. You don't need language to access any of your five senses.
Words themself have meaning, but only serve as a reference to someone or something.
Imagine if you couldn't speak any language...how would you define anything? You could see it, hear it, smell it, touch it etc...but you wouldn't be able to define it with words, only experience and memory.
References, or words, connected to anything your five senses sense, mainly serve as organizational and memorizational tools..and as a way to communicate and relate with others.
Without words, an unfamiliar situation (stimulus) will end with a response from the subject (human), based on what he sees, hears, smells, tastes, feels...It may not have been defined with the use of words, but the memory and the experience of the situation will still be contemplated and eventually understood using past experiences and memory.
At least I think...(this is directed to Nah)
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motherface
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Joined: 12 Mar 2003
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 19:50 Post subject:
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| Nahualli wrote: | | Jinu - grats on missing the point entirely. |
I don't think he did. Your quote basically said that your learning or growth is limited by language. This is certainly true in my experience, but I think much of it is due to how intertwined our language is with our society. Our thought patterns are expressed via our language and our language adapts to suit those patterns.
The English language is one of the more bizarre (I'm told) due to the extreme number of "exceptions" to the "rules." For example, the old "I before E, except after C, or sounding like 'a' as in 'neighbor' or 'weigh'" type of thing. English is also a pretty flexible language in which probably hundreds or thousands of new words are created every year. Words like "Google" that didn't exist 10 years ago are now part of our collective vocabulary, and are easily changed into other forms - google itself has become a verb. The ease with which nouns are "verbed" in English is a reflection of our culture and our ability to change things to suit our needs.
Learning another language can certainly help you learn other ways of thinking. When I learned Spanish, I had a hard time comprehending why you would have to use "usted" to address someone. "Tu" was ok for your friends and whatever, but we were told that in like business dealings or addressing superiors you would typically use "usted" and speak to the person in the third person. In English obviously when speaking with someone you talk to them in the second person, "How are you today?" But in Spanish it would be like, "How is Usted today?" Finally I was able to draw an analogy to English which made it clear to me: When a lawyer addresses a judge in court, he never refers to the judge as "you" but rather as "your Honor" or "the court." E.g. "If it pleases the court..." I don't know how it came about that usted became the accepted way of addressing others in Spanish, but from what my teacher had said, in Spain it's not as prevalent as it is in Central America. Like in Spain the second person plural is "vosotros" - a word that doesn't exist in Central American Spanish - they use "ustedes." So embedded in the Spanish language is a sort of deference or respect for the other person you're addressing.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that learning a language is like forming tire tracks in your brain, and as those tracks get deeper, more of your thoughts tend to follow them, and your brain works to fit new concepts into those cognitive paths as well. Learning a new language creates new paths for your brain to send information through, and who knows, maybe some information your brain wouldn't have been able to absorb over the old paths can now be taken in over the new ones?
Kinda long winded but...
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 20:07 Post subject: Re: My favorite phrase to ponder from time to time.
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| Nahualli wrote: | I hope I have this right
"The limits of my language are the limits of my world"
I don't know who said it but it's so cool to sit there and think about it.. it just goes to show how infinitely small and underdeveloped our brains are as humans. As complex as they are they are tied to language and familiar patterns and completely stop functioning when faced with unfamiliar or totally new situations.
Discuss.
-Nah- |
It used to be that to know something's name was to have power over it. Now, knowledge is simply power.
Someday humans will have computers in their heads and we'll be a lot more useful and a lot more capable of destroying ourselves as well.
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Jinu
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 20:08 Post subject:
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| motherface wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | | Jinu - grats on missing the point entirely. |
I don't think he did. Your quote basically said that your learning or growth is limited by language. This is certainly true in my experience, but I think much of it is due to how intertwined our language is with our society. Our thought patterns are expressed via our language and our language adapts to suit those patterns.
The English language is one of the more bizarre (I'm told) due to the extreme number of "exceptions" to the "rules." For example, the old "I before E, except after C, or sounding like 'a' as in 'neighbor' or 'weigh'" type of thing. English is also a pretty flexible language in which probably hundreds or thousands of new words are created every year. Words like "Google" that didn't exist 10 years ago are now part of our collective vocabulary, and are easily changed into other forms - google itself has become a verb. The ease with which nouns are "verbed" in English is a reflection of our culture and our ability to change things to suit our needs.
Learning another language can certainly help you learn other ways of thinking. When I learned Spanish, I had a hard time comprehending why you would have to use "usted" to address someone. "Tu" was ok for your friends and whatever, but we were told that in like business dealings or addressing superiors you would typically use "usted" and speak to the person in the third person. In English obviously when speaking with someone you talk to them in the second person, "How are you today?" But in Spanish it would be like, "How is Usted today?" Finally I was able to draw an analogy to English which made it clear to me: When a lawyer addresses a judge in court, he never refers to the judge as "you" but rather as "your Honor" or "the court." E.g. "If it pleases the court..." I don't know how it came about that usted became the accepted way of addressing others in Spanish, but from what my teacher had said, in Spain it's not as prevalent as it is in Central America. Like in Spain the second person plural is "vosotros" - a word that doesn't exist in Central American Spanish - they use "ustedes." So embedded in the Spanish language is a sort of deference or respect for the other person you're addressing.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that learning a language is like forming tire tracks in your brain, and as those tracks get deeper, more of your thoughts tend to follow them, and your brain works to fit new concepts into those cognitive paths as well. Learning a new language creates new paths for your brain to send information through, and who knows, maybe some information your brain wouldn't have been able to absorb over the old paths can now be taken in over the new ones?
Kinda long winded but... |
pwned by proxy
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
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Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 20:12 Post subject:
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| motherface wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | | Jinu - grats on missing the point entirely. |
I don't think he did. Your quote basically said that your learning or growth is limited by language. This is certainly true in my experience, but I think much of it is due to how intertwined our language is with our society. Our thought patterns are expressed via our language and our language adapts to suit those patterns.
The English language is one of the more bizarre (I'm told) due to the extreme number of "exceptions" to the "rules." For example, the old "I before E, except after C, or sounding like 'a' as in 'neighbor' or 'weigh'" type of thing. English is also a pretty flexible language in which probably hundreds or thousands of new words are created every year. Words like "Google" that didn't exist 10 years ago are now part of our collective vocabulary, and are easily changed into other forms - google itself has become a verb. The ease with which nouns are "verbed" in English is a reflection of our culture and our ability to change things to suit our needs.
Learning another language can certainly help you learn other ways of thinking. When I learned Spanish, I had a hard time comprehending why you would have to use "usted" to address someone. "Tu" was ok for your friends and whatever, but we were told that in like business dealings or addressing superiors you would typically use "usted" and speak to the person in the third person. In English obviously when speaking with someone you talk to them in the second person, "How are you today?" But in Spanish it would be like, "How is Usted today?" Finally I was able to draw an analogy to English which made it clear to me: When a lawyer addresses a judge in court, he never refers to the judge as "you" but rather as "your Honor" or "the court." E.g. "If it pleases the court..." I don't know how it came about that usted became the accepted way of addressing others in Spanish, but from what my teacher had said, in Spain it's not as prevalent as it is in Central America. Like in Spain the second person plural is "vosotros" - a word that doesn't exist in Central American Spanish - they use "ustedes." So embedded in the Spanish language is a sort of deference or respect for the other person you're addressing.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that learning a language is like forming tire tracks in your brain, and as those tracks get deeper, more of your thoughts tend to follow them, and your brain works to fit new concepts into those cognitive paths as well. Learning a new language creates new paths for your brain to send information through, and who knows, maybe some information your brain wouldn't have been able to absorb over the old paths can now be taken in over the new ones?
Kinda long winded but... |
I tend to believe that the paths you are describing are only created, because we have a basic need to communicate with one another. Just as animals in the animal kingdom relate to one another with their own language, we have a much superior one.
If we couldn't speak, yet still had all the other capabilities of a human, how could we operate or function? If we only rely on words to develop new thoughts, understand and contemplate new experiences or objects or animals etc...then how could we continue to develop? We couldn't, but only if the afformentioned was true. I believe it isn't true..I think before any connections made to the reference (word) that describes an object, a basic understanding of the object is reached. One that does not require the use of words...words serve only as a reference to what it is you're experiencing.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 20:12 Post subject:
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| Nahualli wrote: |
What's the FIRST thing a human does when he/she encounters something unknown? Like an animal they have never seen or a shade of a color that is new and striking to them? They try to equate it to something they already know "well it sorta looked like a cross between a cat and a bear....." or "it was kinda like midnight blue only much much more intense....."
Humans' minds possess an instinct that immediately attempts to make logical sense out of an illogical or just a new situation. Hence we will always be limited by language and by reason.
-Nah- |
Well spoken. We ARE bound by reason, which is why we sometimes go crazy. If I were to look to my closet right now and see a two-headed ghost, I would probably snap because it "breaks the rules" that we, as humans are bound by in our minds and bodies.
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Guest
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 20:12 Post subject:
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Regan
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 751
Location: Miami
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Posted: 04/21/04 - 21:52 Post subject:
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Kbarr... that guy is whiter then I thought people could be, he's practicly glowing! has it been photoshoped, or just a bad effect of the flash?
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