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Abiwabi
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 395
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 Posted: 03/25/03 - 14:13 Post subject: Military Compensation VS 911 Compensation.
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By Rush Limbaugh
I think the vast differences in compensation between the victims of the September 11th casualty, and those who die serving the country in uniform, are profound. No one is really talking about it either because you just don't criticize anything having to do with September 11th.
Well, I just can't let the numbers pass by because it says something really disturbing about the entitlement mentality of this country.
If you lost a family member in the September 11th attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million.
If you are a surviving family member of an American soldier killed in action, the first check you get is a $6,000 direct death benefit, half of which is taxable. Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are the surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry. And there's a payment of $211 per month for each child under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments come to a screeching halt.
Keep in mind that some of the people that are getting an average of $1.185 million up to $4.7 million are complaining that it's not enough.
We also learned over the weekend that some of the victims from the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization asking for the same deal that the September 11th families are getting. In addition to that, some of the families of those bombed in the embassies are now asking for compensation as well.
You see where this is going, don't you?
Folks, this is part and parcel of over fifty years of entitlement politics in this country. It's just really sad.
Every time when a pay raise comes up for the military they usually receive next to nothing of a raise. Now the green machine is in combat in the Middle East while their families have to survive on food stamps and live in low rent housing.
However our own U.S. Congress just voted themselves a raise, and many of you don't know that they only have to be in Congress one-time to receive a pension that is more than $15,000 per month and most are now equal to be millionaires plus. They also do not receive Social Security on retirement because they didn't have to pay into the system. If some of the military people stay in for 20 years and get out as an E-7 you may receive a pension of $1,000 per month, and the very people who placed you in harms way receive a pension of $15,000 per month.
I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon and join ranks before they start cutting out benefits and lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are now fighting.
"When do we finally do something about this ??"
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Haroun Zehra
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1235
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 14:20 Post subject:
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I'm not saying I think soldiers are treated fairly... one look at a V.A. hospital and it's nearly impossible to think that.
I'm also not saying that I think any compensation for the families of the Sept. 11th victims (above and beyond what life insurance they may have had) makes any sense.
However, to compare people who's job is to be a soldier (which includes the possibility of fighting and dying), with the stucture and the expectations, to civillians, just doesn't make sense.
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Ishmobbin
( . )( . )'s Are Fun!
Joined: 09 Oct 2002
Posts: 1264
Location: Texas
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 14:25 Post subject:
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I've always liked rush for his great point of views. Even if i didnt completely agree with him he gathers alot of information b4 making his decision.
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 14:31 Post subject:
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I think it is unfair that congress is so overpayed and the military should prolly get more money.. though the soldiers do get free educations alot of times which is good but still even with that the benefits of joining our army are slim.
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 14:38 Post subject:
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| Tolanin wrote: | | I think it is unfair that congress is so overpayed and the military should prolly get more money.. though the soldiers do get free educations alot of times which is good but still even with that the benefits of joining our army are slim. |
Not to mention free housing, health care, etc. Soldiers are well taken care of. Besides, you don't join the military to get rich.
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Vio
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 977
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:24 Post subject:
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this is disgusting personally
why in the hell should family members of the people killed in a terrorist act be rushing for all the money possible out of their own government ?!? Makes things seems as though bush killed them himself....I guess cash in wherever you can right?
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Vio
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 977
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:26 Post subject:
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| WheresNWS wrote: | | Tolanin wrote: | | I think it is unfair that congress is so overpayed and the military should prolly get more money.. though the soldiers do get free educations alot of times which is good but still even with that the benefits of joining our army are slim. |
Not to mention free housing, health care, etc. Soldiers are well taken care of. Besides, you don't join the military to get rich. |
Yeah but hell man people that are in your army for years on top of years do need to live when they get out of the army - you saying that the people over there right now dying and getting shot at should come back to a trailer park ?
hrmmm
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:29 Post subject:
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Yep, money doesnt replace a deads family members, a montly help for the wifes etc... but that should be it.
Also the help to bury.
Also let not forget 1 thing. as a military soldier (career) you are paid all the years you work in case that a war would happen. And if needed to take a bullet to protect your country , that wh yyou are paid. not to just be in the army for fun.
when you decide to join the army you should know in your mind that maybe 1 day you will get a bullet if a war happen, and that you are paid for this.
Now are they unpaid? hmmm...wars doesnt happen quite often
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:38 Post subject:
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You can retire from the military and then have a successful career afterwards, plus you receive the benefits of military service. Our military is 100% volunteer, you aren't there because you don't want to be there. It is a job where you get what you put into it, but it's not really a job, its a way of life, most people in the military don't even think about the $$, the soldiers don't anyways. You get taken care of. As far as the congress goes, they are well paid but not extravagantly so. Most of their compensation comes in fringe benefits where there isn't really a number value you can attach to it. But suffice to say they live comfortably. I don't really have a problem with that either. You want to be a congressman - go for it. There's nothing stopping you =D. Not that I would want to be a politician, I don't think that would be something I'd enjoy.
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 15:43 Post subject:
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about congress you also have to remember the years they are actually in office they are spending vastly more on their job than they are getting paid for it..
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denuvien
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 153
Location: McMinnville, OR
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 19:51 Post subject:
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Huh?
Congressmen don't SPEND their own money when they're office. They may go through billions in "donations" (*cough*bribes*cough*) GETTING their, but once they're there they're payed well enough.
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 20:07 Post subject:
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What makes me sick to my stomach, is that some of those 9/11 families are sueing the gov't, claiming that the formula they used in the compensation was unfair, that some families are due more money then what the gov't is willing to pay. Now I feel sorry for those victims of 9/11, but they had better life insurance policies then a soldier will ever be able to afford.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 20:10 Post subject:
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And then of course you've got the people in Oklahoma suing, since the people in the WTC got money and they didn't. Does anyone not have their hand out?
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 20:18 Post subject:
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Why carry life insurance if the gov't is going to pay for it all??? 
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Sabathius
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2179
Location: San Angelo
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 20:22 Post subject:
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Rush Limbaugh is a Scatmunching Assgarbler.
But he has a point with that....
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Haroun Zehra
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1235
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 20:37 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | | And then of course you've got the people in Oklahoma suing, since the people in the WTC got money and they didn't. Does anyone not have their hand out? |
Yes, but the people in Oklahoma were killed by an AMERICAN, where as the poor folks in the WTC were killed by terrorists.
You see the important distinction, don't you?
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 03/25/03 - 23:24 Post subject:
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my uncle is the man in charge of the 9/11 victims fund, Kenneth Feinberg - you should hear some of the shit the families have pulled trying to get more money, threatening to sue him, etc etc
it was a tragedy, but the behavior of some of them is just sickening
the only reason the government set up the fund is because lawsuits by them against the airlines would have literally destroyed the airline industry and that could not be allowed to happen
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Shanda
Luke Warm
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 181
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Posted: 03/27/03 - 00:36 Post subject:
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Soldiers are not well taken care of, and neither are their families. Many military families are on food stamps and wic, and often can't get on base housing so they end up in pretty nasty apartment complexes because that is what their entitlement will afford them.
My dad was 22 years in the service and was retired 100% disabled (leg amputation, surgery 22+ times over several years, etc). His benefits were lousy and two years after he was retired, Regan took the benefit checks from children of disabled vets so they were much worse. Now they're talking about cutting veterans benefits again and my dad figures he and mom will lose the house if they do.
Of course, they get the free health care - have you ever been to a VA hospital? Hell, the quack military docters caused more problems for my Dad then the original accident!
I honestly never thought I'd agree with Rush on anything, but he's so right - we need to kick their collective greedy ass in Washington.
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eqchanter
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 1543
Location: tennessee
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Posted: 03/27/03 - 08:47 Post subject:
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| Tolanin wrote: | | I think it is unfair that congress is so overpayed and the military should prolly get more money.. though the soldiers do get free educations alot of times which is good but still even with that the benefits of joining our army are slim. |
that free education is 4 courses a year totaling no more cost than 2000 dollars.
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hitachi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1507
Location: Maryland
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Posted: 03/27/03 - 08:59 Post subject:
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thats wrong, heh. i just talked to a navy recruiter yesterday and he said they pay 100% costs up to like $35,000.
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Haroun Zehra
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1235
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Posted: 03/27/03 - 09:06 Post subject:
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| Shanda wrote: | | Soldiers are not well taken care of, and neither are their families. Many military families are on food stamps and wic, and often can't get on base housing so they end up in pretty nasty apartment complexes because that is what their entitlement will afford them. |
But you know what the pay is before you sign up... right? This part is in an individual's control (don't take the job if you don't like the pay).
| Quote: | | My dad was 22 years in the service and was retired 100% disabled (leg amputation, surgery 22+ times over several years, etc)... Of course, they get the free health care - have you ever been to a VA hospital? Hell, the quack military docters caused more problems for my Dad then the original accident! |
No argument. VA facilities are generally the worst. I'm not saying they should be the best, but they should certainly be average.
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hitachi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1507
Location: Maryland
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Posted: 03/27/03 - 09:12 Post subject:
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people dont join for the pay i agree, but that doesnt mean they should get f****d in the ass the whole time.
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eqchanter
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 1543
Location: tennessee
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Posted: 03/27/03 - 09:39 Post subject:
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| hitachi wrote: | | thats wrong, heh. i just talked to a navy recruiter yesterday and he said they pay 100% costs up to like $35,000. |
im an e6 in the navy. i know for a fact you do not get 100% up to 35000.
35000 is the mgib 14,500 dollars and the navy college fund of 20500.
you have to pay into the mgib to get it and you do not always get a college fund. you have to be a one of the rates that get a college fund.
also you have to finish your 4-5 years that you sign up for and get an honorable discharge. while you are in the military you get 100% of 4 courses up to $2000. this changed from 75% up to 3500 but not limited to the amount of courses you could take.
while you may say that you dont join the military for pay, that is true. but, untill you are an e5 or above your pay just plain sucks ass.
benefits? have you ever seen a military docter. id rather go to a 3rd world contry for my medical needs.
as far as housing cost i do get money for that. i got lucky with the house im renting it is really nice. but i also pay more than i am alloted. also 75% or so of the military probably dont get that money. they live in barracks with 75-100 people in a room. im glad i dont go on subs some of them have to share a bed with other men. not at the same time of course. i dont think that i should get paid alot more but i do disagree when someone says that the military are well taken care of. its enough to get by on but not to live well. if it wasn't for september 11 i would be working for lockheed makig triple or more what i do now.
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Haroun Zehra
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1235
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Posted: 03/27/03 - 09:42 Post subject:
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| hitachi wrote: | | people dont join for the pay i agree, but that doesnt mean they should get f****d in the ass the whole time. |
Oliver North ended up doing pretty well for himself. /giggle
Seriously, you're right. It *is* a hard job (hours suck I hear), and it isn't *just* a job, it's a lifestyle. Military towns often don't have too much in the way of other industry, making it hard for spouses to find good jobs.
My understanding is that job security is better than many free market jobs though, and you do get benefits that many other low-paying jobs do not, so there are trade offs.
We'd need to look at specifics where you have direct military vs. civilian comparisons: army jeep mechanic job vs. local car dealership mechanic job, for example. What are the comparators for pay, hours, benefits, etc.
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hitachi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1507
Location: Maryland
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Posted: 03/27/03 - 09:47 Post subject:
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im not complaining. my dad's an e9 in the navy, and he does very well for himself and my family, but like eqchanter said, pay before a certain rate is pretty bad.
and eqchanter, the recruiter was either lying to me (which is possible, but doubtful since my father was there with me) or the rate i was interested in was one of the ones that does pay more for college.
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eqchanter
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 1543
Location: tennessee
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Posted: 03/27/03 - 09:51 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | My understanding is that job security is better than many free market jobs though, and you do get benefits that many other low-paying jobs do not, so there are trade offs |
actualy i take some of that back. if you want to join the military. join the air force. they have the best beneifits and pay.their college fund is way better and they get paid extra for lower standard of living. the jobs are way more boring and there is alot less to do but you wont have to live s****y. if you do you get per-diem thats way more than you need. i was in sigonella and talking to one of the reservists there. he gets $180 dollars a day per-diem in addition to his basic pay because the standard of living these is poor. but the downside to the air force is the advancement is really slow.
and really as quoted above, job security is the only reason i am still here. i want to work in my field. its what i know and know very well. lockheed laid off alot of people that were just hired. i am working on some applications with fed-ex. they are hireing now so i may go with them. but i want to go back to new england and i dont know if they have any openings there. so i guess im still stuck here in the military for another year or so
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eqchanter
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 1543
Location: tennessee
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Posted: 03/27/03 - 09:55 Post subject:
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| hitachi wrote: | im not complaining. my dad's an e9 in the navy, and he does very well for himself and my family, but like eqchanter said, pay before a certain rate is pretty bad.
and eqchanter, the recruiter was either lying to me (which is possible, but doubtful since my father was there with me) or the rate i was interested in was one of the ones that does pay more for college. |
recruiters dont lie. they just dont tell you the whole truth. ask him about the college funds and if the rate you want comes with the college fund and any bonuses you may get. im not trying to flame you i just dont want to see anyone make a choice based on what a recruiter tells you. they have quotas and will tell you anything to get you to sign that paper. ask your father to get you a ta form and the guidlines for it. they make that deal look shiney but dont tell you what you have to do to get it.
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hitachi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1507
Location: Maryland
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Posted: 03/27/03 - 09:59 Post subject:
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yea he told me all about the recruiters having quotas etc. im not too worried about getting screwed over at all.
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