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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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 Posted: 01/07/05 - 19:19 Post subject: Memo reveals Bush OKd torture
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http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/6260/1/245/
WASHINGTON During confirmation hearings on Alberto Gonzales nomination as Attorney General, senators should question him about a recently uncovered memo that George W. Bush ordered the torture of detainees at Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and other military prisons around the world, several human rights groups suggested last month.
The groups, who joined in an ACLU Freedom of Information (FOIA) lawsuit, which won release of the memo and other incriminating documents, are describing it as the smoking gun implicating Bush in the torture scandal.
ACLU Executive Director Anthony D. Romero released the memo Dec. 20 in New York. That document, a December 2003 FBI internal e-mail, suggests that Bush issued a secret Executive Order authorizing the use of extreme coercive measures in interrogation, including sleep deprivation, stress positions, attack dogs, and use of hoods to intimidate prisoners. The Geneva Convention Against Torture bans all of these practices.
These documents raise grave questions about where the blame for widespread detainee abuse ultimately rests, Romero said. Top government officials can no longer hide from public scrutiny by pointing the finger at a few low-ranking soldiers.
The human rights groups statement called on the Senate to scrutinize Gonzales, the White House Legal Counsel, on a Jan. 25, 2002, memo he wrote to Bush arguing that the Geneva Conventions outlawing torture did not apply to the war in Afghanistan. Gonzales described the conventions as quaint and obsolete.
In August 2002, Gonzales, without consulting military and State Department experts in the laws of torture and war, according to the Washington Post, approved a memo from the Justice Department claiming that unlawful enemy combatants could be detained indefinitely without criminal charges or the right of due process. The memo, the Post said, gave CIA interrogators the legal blessings they sought.
Physicians for Human Rights, winner of the 1997 Nobel Peace Prize, is one of the groups in the ACLU lawsuit. PHR sent a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee signed by 150 doctors with expertise in the treatment of torture. There should be no place in the U.S. government for any official who condones the crime of torture, the letter stated.
Gretchen Borchelt, a PHR spokesperson, joined in the call for probing Bushs role in the torture scandal. It would be great to question Gonzales about that memo, she said. There are a number of documents the senators have asked for and have not received yet. We think this is a hugely important issue not just because of the nomination of Gonzales but also because the questions about torture have not been resolved. There has been no accountability.
Gonzales asserted Bushs right to order the torture of detainees, a position that violates U.S. treaty obligations under the Convention Against Torture and other international agreements, PHR said.
Wilson Woody Powell, executive director of St. Louis-based Veterans For Peace, another group in the lawsuit, told the World in a telephone interview that they are now examining the documents, which they recently received.
Since Gonzales was Bushs legal adviser at the time, it would make sense to ask him about that memo, Powell said. It would be a good question: what was Bushs role in the torture?
If our nations highest law enforcement officer is known for abrogating international law in the treatment of detainees, we are just confirming to the world that we dont care about human rights. We would be confirming a criminal, a scofflaw, to be the nations chief prosecutor.
Powell pointed out that the U.S. is a signatory to the Convention Against Torture as a matter of self-protection. I fully anticipate someone is going to capture some American soldiers and do unto them what we have done unto others. We have a deep concern for how our soldiers are going to be treated if they are captured given the record of torture at Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and other detention centers, Powell said. Thousands of detainees have been held without trial because the administration lacks evidence to try them or even bring criminal charges.
MoveOn.org, the Internet activist group, has posted a petition on its website demanding that Gonzales sign a Declaration Against Torture and renounce his extreme and dangerous position that torture is a legitimate method of interrogation. The petition calls on Gonzales to reaffirm American respect for human dignity and the rule of law.
The administration is feeling so much heat on the subject that they posted, unannounced, on a U.S. government website, a new policy repudiating the earlier memos and calling torture abhorrent both to American law and values and to international norms.
On the eve of his confirmation hearings, Gonzales appeared to be covering his previous actions by releasing a prepared statement saying he would abide by international treaties prohibiting torture of prisoners. His Senate testimony was obtained by The Associated Press.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 01/07/05 - 22:31 Post subject:
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Do you even read what you post?
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 01/07/05 - 23:27 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | | Do you even read what you post? |
Yes, i read it.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 01/08/05 - 00:08 Post subject:
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| wellspoken wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: | | Do you even read what you post? |
Yes, i read it. |
Care to explain how you get from...
| Quote: | | In August 2002, Gonzales, without consulting military and State Department experts in the laws of torture and war, according to the Washington Post, approved a memo from the Justice Department claiming that unlawful enemy combatants could be detained indefinitely without criminal charges or the right of due process. The memo, the Post said, gave CIA interrogators the legal blessings they sought. |
and
| Quote: | | Gonzales asserted Bushs right to order the torture of detainees, |
and
| Quote: | | Since Gonzales was Bushs legal adviser at the time, it would make sense to ask him about that memo, Powell said. It would be a good question: what was Bushs role in the torture? |
to your conclusion then?
Is this more of the spurious 'Bush's advisor did it so obviously Bush knew about it' logic that we hear thrown about all the time?
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 01/08/05 - 00:34 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | | wellspoken wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: | | Do you even read what you post? |
Yes, i read it. |
Care to explain how you get from...
| Quote: | | In August 2002, Gonzales, without consulting military and State Department experts in the laws of torture and war, according to the Washington Post, approved a memo from the Justice Department claiming that unlawful enemy combatants could be detained indefinitely without criminal charges or the right of due process. The memo, the Post said, gave CIA interrogators the legal blessings they sought. |
and
| Quote: | | Gonzales asserted Bushs right to order the torture of detainees, |
and
| Quote: | | Since Gonzales was Bushs legal adviser at the time, it would make sense to ask him about that memo, Powell said. It would be a good question: what was Bushs role in the torture? |
to your conclusion then?
Is this more of the spurious 'Bush's advisor did it so obviously Bush knew about it' logic that we hear thrown about all the time? |
My conclusion? You dumb f**k i didn't post that shit...i copy'd and pasted the article.
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scrotum
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 828
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Posted: 01/08/05 - 05:26 Post subject:
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Kind of ironic that the guy pictured in the torturings started his trial yesterday, and will most likely be punished, while Gonzales won't get touched, but rather promoted to a higher position. go go system
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 01/08/05 - 05:46 Post subject:
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| wellspoken wrote: |
My conclusion? You dumb f**k i didn't post that shit...i copy'd and pasted the article. |
You didn't post the title of this thread? You copy'd and pasted it? Sure thing, 'you dumb f**k'.
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 01/08/05 - 05:57 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | | wellspoken wrote: |
My conclusion? You dumb f**k i didn't post that shit...i copy'd and pasted the article. |
You didn't post the title of this thread? You copy'd and pasted it? Sure thing, 'you dumb f**k'. |
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 01/08/05 - 08:34 Post subject:
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| scrotum wrote: | | Kind of ironic that the guy pictured in the torturings started his trial yesterday, and will most likely be punished, while Gonzales won't get touched, but rather promoted to a higher position. go go system |
The guy going on trial was a thug abusing prisioners without supervision, not a CIA interrogator. Get your facts straight fucktard.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 01/08/05 - 19:39 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | | wellspoken wrote: |
My conclusion? You dumb f**k i didn't post that shit...i copy'd and pasted the article. |
You didn't post the title of this thread? You copy'd and pasted it? Sure thing, 'you dumb f**k'. |
Yes you dumb f**k i did. From www.google.com news.
Now stfu c**t.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 01/09/05 - 12:11 Post subject:
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lol no response Nudnut?
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Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 3086
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Posted: 01/09/05 - 15:21 Post subject:
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This is a terrible article.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 01/09/05 - 17:37 Post subject:
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| wellspoken wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: | | wellspoken wrote: |
My conclusion? You dumb f**k i didn't post that shit...i copy'd and pasted the article. |
You didn't post the title of this thread? You copy'd and pasted it? Sure thing, 'you dumb f**k'. |
Yes you dumb f**k i did. From www.google.com news.
Now stfu c**t. |
What is there to respond to? I proved my point already. You haven't done anything to dispute it.
You and Scrotum both make me laugh. I post something that is purposefully abrasive but still makes a point. Both of you ignore the point and concentrate on making personal attacks. Of course, I win in that debate but you don't realize that yet and you probably never will. I'm sure you'll just come back with another post filled with your attempts at being insulting and completely lacking in any substance; you'll completely miss the point again, as usual.
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scrotum
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 828
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Posted: 01/09/05 - 19:26 Post subject:
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Personal attacks? Did you read my post?
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 01/09/05 - 20:51 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | | wellspoken wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: | | wellspoken wrote: |
My conclusion? You dumb f**k i didn't post that shit...i copy'd and pasted the article. |
You didn't post the title of this thread? You copy'd and pasted it? Sure thing, 'you dumb f**k'. |
Yes you dumb f**k i did. From www.google.com news.
Now stfu c**t. |
What is there to respond to? I proved my point already. You haven't done anything to dispute it.
You and Scrotum both make me laugh. I post something that is purposefully abrasive but still makes a point. Both of you ignore the point and concentrate on making personal attacks. Of course, I win in that debate but you don't realize that yet and you probably never will. I'm sure you'll just come back with another post filled with your attempts at being insulting and completely lacking in any substance; you'll completely miss the point again, as usual. |
You're right.
Idiot.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 01/10/05 - 00:06 Post subject:
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| scrotum wrote: | | Personal attacks? Did you read my post? |
You're right...although I don't think you understood what I was referring to. You dpn't resort to personal attacks, you resort to slanted half-truths. You're right, it's not the same thing, however, it's still amusing.
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Jarec
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 123
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 16:41 Post subject:
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Cut & Paste journalism is best left to the experts at CBS. ;-p
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ATM Banana
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 8575
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 17:04 Post subject:
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hahaha, nuldan didn't even concede that he was wrong about both the last sentence and the title of this thread, but instead retreated to the "your posts are personal attacks" while ignoring that his are as well.
hardy har!
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 17:09 Post subject:
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God damn this forum is awesome. We're really fixing things, here! It's like the 60's all over again!
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 17:23 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | | God damn this forum is awesome. We're really fixing things, here! It's like the 60's all over again! |
Power to the People, Man!
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Tura
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 4865
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 17:35 Post subject:
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Nuld:
| Quote: | | Both of you ignore the point and concentrate on making personal attacks |
Wellspoken
| Quote: | You're right.
Idiot. |
He makes his name quite the oxymoron doesn't he folks?
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 17:57 Post subject:
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| ATM Banana wrote: | hahaha, nuldan didn't even concede that he was wrong about both the last sentence and the title of this thread, but instead retreated to the "your posts are personal attacks" while ignoring that his are as well.
hardy har! |
Where was I wrong again?
Wellspoken's conclusion is in the title of the thread. It's a conclusion that is not supported by the article he posted, as was shown in my post. Wellspoken's response was 'shut the f**k up dumb c**t.' Very intelligent and not an attack at all. 
As for Scrotum, I actually did say he was right about the personal attacks (which implies that I was wrong btw). However, I wasn't referring specifically to this post when I mentioned him. If you want an example of Scrotum using twisted half-truths to prove a point, look at the 9-page post on American charity. It's a perfect example of exactly what I was referring to.
And as for you, ATM, you, along with 99% of this board, needs to go back to grade school and learn some reading comprehension. There is a HUGE difference between making a balanced argument that includes some personal jabs and creating an argument that relies solely upon them. I do the former; Wellspoken does the latter. I admit that I shouldn't even go as far as I do but it's the only way to get any response from some of the people on this board...and it's reserved for those people. I believe I've made this argument before.
Call me crazy...but I don't see a reason to admit I was wrong in my post, because, try to follow me here, I wasn't.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 18:05 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | | ATM Banana wrote: | hahaha, nuldan didn't even concede that he was wrong about both the last sentence and the title of this thread, but instead retreated to the "your posts are personal attacks" while ignoring that his are as well.
hardy har! |
Where was I wrong again?
Wellspoken's conclusion is in the title of the thread. It's a conclusion that is not supported by the article he posted, as was shown in my post. Wellspoken's response was 'shut the f**k up dumb c**t.' Very intelligent and not an attack at all.
As for Scrotum, I actually did say he was right about the personal attacks (which implies that I was wrong btw). However, I wasn't referring specifically to this post when I mentioned him. If you want an example of Scrotum using twisted half-truths to prove a point, look at the 9-page post on American charity. It's a perfect example of exactly what I was referring to.
And as for you, ATM, you, along with 99% of this board, needs to go back to grade school and learn some reading comprehension. There is a HUGE difference between making a balanced argument that includes some personal jabs and creating an argument that relies solely upon them. I do the former; Wellspoken does the latter. I admit that I shouldn't even go as far as I do but it's the only way to get any response from some of the people on this board...and it's reserved for those people. I believe I've made this argument before.
Call me crazy...but I don't see a reason to admit I was wrong in my post, because, try to follow me here, I wasn't. |
'
You DUMBFUCK. Thats not my conclusion. I simply copied and pasted this from Google news. You're wrong. Get over it. Dumbfuck.
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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 18:07 Post subject:
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Even if he did it doesn't matter; we can torture terrorists if we want to. *evil laugh*
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 18:49 Post subject:
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I like Nuldaan alot now, in a non h**o kinda way.
He owned Wellspoken and Scrotum in two fun ways.
They cannot debate, so they fling poop like monkies, angry and screaming, but nothing but poop is flung.
Very entertaining, thanks Nuldaan!  <3
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 19:10 Post subject:
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| Paco wrote: | I like Nuldaan alot now, in a non h**o kinda way.
He owned Wellspoken and Scrotum in two fun ways.
They cannot debate, so they fling poop like monkies, angry and screaming, but nothing but poop is flung.
Very entertaining, thanks Nuldaan! <3 |
Explain how he owned me? I simply copied and pasted this shit... i didn't try to debate shit. Are you blind paco?
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quotison
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1594
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 19:10 Post subject:
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| Scrabler wrote: | | Even if he did it doesn't matter; we can torture terrorists if we want to. *evil laugh* |
It does matter what Bush's stance on torture is, especially since Republicans have lead us to believe they are the party of moral values. And not everyone is as okay as you are with torture.
| Nuldaan wrote: | | Wellspoken's conclusion is in the title of the thread. It's a conclusion that is not supported by the article he posted, as was shown in my post. |
No, the title of the thread is the title of the article- the title being given by the author of the article, not wellspoken. Please click on the link that wellspoken provided at the top of his first post.
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Tura
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 4865
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 19:20 Post subject:
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| quotison wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | | Even if he did it doesn't matter; we can torture terrorists if we want to. *evil laugh* |
It does matter what Bush's stance on torture is, especially since Republicans have lead us to believe they are the party of moral values. And not everyone is as okay as you are with torture.
| Nuldaan wrote: | | Wellspoken's conclusion is in the title of the thread. It's a conclusion that is not supported by the article he posted, as was shown in my post. |
No, the title of the thread is the title of the article- the title being given by the author of the article, not wellspoken. Please click on the link that wellspoken provided at the top of his first post. |
It wasn't torture...
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 19:33 Post subject:
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| quotison wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | | Even if he did it doesn't matter; we can torture terrorists if we want to. *evil laugh* |
It does matter what Bush's stance on torture is, especially since Republicans have lead us to believe they are the party of moral values. And not everyone is as okay as you are with torture.
| Nuldaan wrote: | | Wellspoken's conclusion is in the title of the thread. It's a conclusion that is not supported by the article he posted, as was shown in my post. |
No, the title of the thread is the title of the article- the title being given by the author of the article, not wellspoken. Please click on the link that wellspoken provided at the top of his first post. |
Ty, someone that can notice the obvious!!!!!!
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 01/11/05 - 21:00 Post subject:
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Memo reveals: Wellspoken is an idiot.
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