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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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 Posted: 10/25/05 - 15:40 Post subject: MMO related: Fantasy genre played-out?
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Many people believe there is still lots of room to grow in the fantasy genre. Just look at first-person shooters. That genre is still growing. Do you believe fantasy MMO's are overdone?
I don't think so, but that's because I love playing them.
A friend of mine mentioned today that he wonders if they are, or will be in 1-2 years. He has a point. In the next 2 years we'll have both D&DOnline as well as Vanguard out. Probably a third one, too.
I disagree with him, but he does have a point. What do you think?
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slack82
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 382
Location: St. Louis, Mo
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 15:47 Post subject:
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IMO yes they are somewhat, but they are still fun.
I'd like to see an MMO blend both elements of both genres eventually.
Not really a large MMOFPS like Planetside, but have it be mission based going up against NPCs like you do in some of the old CO-OP modes FPS used to have.
Like say UT2k3/4 "Invasion" Gametype on a much larger scale with purpose and progression/rpg elements. I think there is a game coming out soon that is similiar to this, Huxley I think it is called. It will be something that is neat to see as the co-op gameplay is missed by a large number of the FPS gaming community (no co-op in D3 or Q4 was a huge dissappointment, and the mods that are out just don't give the game play justice)
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 15:58 Post subject:
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Don't count on DDO right now...they are figuring out that NWN is free, while DDO is a monthly fee...yet NWN is better. Not to mention NWN2 is about to come out.
Not sure about Vanguard, but Dark & Light is a new generation of MMO game IMHO. Massive PVP, huge terrain, ONE server, multiple kingdoms...etc...
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lotek
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1598
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 16:32 Post subject:
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the market is for fantasy, always has been. There will be spliter groups that want non fantasy rpg's, but thoes never do as well.
d&d
ultima,
wizardy...etc..etc
rpg = fantasy
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 16:40 Post subject:
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| lotek wrote: | the market is for fantasy, always has been. There will be spliter groups that want non fantasy rpg's, but thoes never do as well.
d&d
ultima,
wizardy...etc..etc
rpg = fantasy |
These are my exact feelings also. Thanks for summarizing it so well 
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khrath
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8750
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 16:43 Post subject:
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FPS's haven't made any worth a shit changes in years man
They're all the same game, with a few tiny changes, and better graphics.
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Mugaaz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3576
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 17:20 Post subject:
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FPS can be the same because each game offers action gameplay and has you competing against other human beings where you get to shoot them and f*****g kill them, it doesn't need to change much to stay fun.
RPG MMO's are played out because nothing f*****g changes. You sit there and watch your guy fight. You go grind for a billion hours to wear some new item. The idea was cool the first time, but you've already done it before. Look at WoW, the reason it did so well is because the fighting in the game has actual action elements to it, also you get to kill other people and get rewarded for it. Any new fantasy MMO doesn't have action/adventure game elements in the combat system might as well come out at a price of 9.99 so it can go straight to the bargain bin.
I'm sure tons of you have played a lot of single player rpgs. Let me ask, do you still have as much fun playing them? I sure don't. Every games feels like I've f*****g played it a thousand times before. Unless the game has some real fighting elements in it I will get bored. Look at the latest big RPG games, each one had some type of new fighting system instead fo turn based garbage. The ones that didn't had to go leaps and bounds in production values to compete.
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Aviger
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1509
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 18:10 Post subject:
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i'd consider myself part of the fringe group that would like OTHER then Fantasy rpg's
a GOOD sci-fi RPG would be heaven. Sadly many tried and failed.
That space above and beyond kinda RPG with spaceships sucked, MAtrix..well...need i say more, SWG was close but to much PVP for my liking.
Something with the look and playability of EQ set in a sci-fi genre would own.
They have many good stories to base it on. Farscape, Lexx, Stargates, i daresay Star Trek 
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kireol
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 9517
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 19:53 Post subject:
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I dont think the genre is played out.
BUT to be successful, you need to include the things that get people to play.
Examples:
EQ Pre kunark community spirit. People knew players and had reps and they mattered for various reasons. To be successful in the long term a game MUST have this.
Sense of ownership: Weather it's housing (Ultima Online) or near impossible to get equipment, something that puts you apart from a pack of people. Something to obtain. something nearly impossible to get right away.
WOW is a great game but lacks both of these things for the most part.
Carrot and donkey. If someone can find a new carrot other than endless hours leveling, so the hardcore can get themselves away from the pack for a while, and then the masses can obtain same over time, this will keep people playing and fun. To prove this, pick any game. then find a cheat or god mode for it. it's real awesome wicked super mega fun......... for about 5 minutes, then you never play it ever again.
my $0.02
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 20:22 Post subject:
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Fantasy will never be played out with me.
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Aeain
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1973
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 20:26 Post subject:
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I want to start playin an MMO again. Might settle and play some Original EQ. Re-Live the good old days.
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16398
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 20:27 Post subject:
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i still want a skill based MMO.
Morrowind rpg i would play forever.
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kireol
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 9517
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 20:37 Post subject:
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| atarom wrote: | i still want a skill based MMO.
Morrowind rpg i would play forever. |
like a FPS/MMO?
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Devook
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 2374
Location: Ypsilanti or Troy, MI
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 20:37 Post subject:
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| Aeain wrote: | | I want to start playin an MMO again. Might settle and play some Original EQ. Re-Live the good old days. |
www.dawntide.net
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Aeain
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1973
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 20:54 Post subject:
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| Devook wrote: | | Aeain wrote: | | I want to start playin an MMO again. Might settle and play some Original EQ. Re-Live the good old days. |
www.dawntide.net |
Is this after the Dawn that had Race War Kingdoms mud?
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Finigan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3817
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 20:56 Post subject:
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| atarom wrote: | i still want a skill based MMO.
Morrowind rpg i would play forever. |
UO
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Nictathan
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5531
Location: here... where I am... not with you
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 21:39 Post subject:
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Not played out at all I think, but perhaps not enough variety in the market right now and that is what is pushing people's brains with this idea that it is played out
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Aluaeia
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 5670
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 21:47 Post subject:
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I would dig up and eat Jesus' corpse for a good (or even decent) cyberpunk mmo. I'd kill and eat Allah for a White Wolf WoD mmo.
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Aluaeia
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 5670
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 21:49 Post subject:
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I would dig up and eat Jesus' corpse for a good (or even decent) cyberpunk mmo. I'd kill and eat Allah for a White Wolf WoD mmo.
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Zorin
Luke Warm
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 282
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 23:23 Post subject:
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One thing's for sure, though: no game will ever capture the attention and market share EQ did in it's heyday. Kind of a shame because the whole aura around EQ really added to it's appeal (and no doubt longevity).
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General-Lund
Luke Warm
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 224
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Posted: 10/25/05 - 23:27 Post subject:
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| Aluaeia wrote: | | I'd kill and eat Allah for a White Wolf WoD mmo. |
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Finigan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3817
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Posted: 10/26/05 - 00:37 Post subject:
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The Fantasy Genre isn't played out, theres so much diversity and room for creativity to it that it will never be played out.
What IS played out is the same gameplay mechanics that flood almost every MMO on the market. auto combat with no skill involved, Tradeskills you have to f*****g GRIND that are less enjoyable then going to work, and easy repetitive gameplay that a trained monkey could do (people shouldn't be able to bot 6 characters at once or write a script that fights monsters for them and levels them up). I have yet to see a script for an FPS game or a fighting game because they involve skill and player awareness. MMO's need more twitch gameplay.
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16398
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 10/26/05 - 03:18 Post subject:
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| kireol wrote: | | atarom wrote: | i still want a skill based MMO.
Morrowind rpg i would play forever. |
like a FPS/MMO? |
make morrowind a MMO and i would be as happy as a clam.
you could have a level 50 trader that would get his ass kicked by a level 10 warrior, but could convince an NPC to kick his ass for a low price.
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Aluaeia
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 5670
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Posted: 10/26/05 - 03:26 Post subject:
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Or you can run around gathering tree fungus for 302309750987312 hours til you made enough money to buy all your skills to max!!!
Ok, I lied, I hacked the game to give myself 8392158610983265 gold and max skills, and some ring that teleports me to one of 37 places. But I can't do that in an mmorpg.
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Gethy
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5599
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Posted: 10/26/05 - 06:43 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | I have yet to see a script for an FPS game or a fighting game because they involve skill and player awareness. MMO's need more twitch gameplay. |
So what is a bot in an FPS?
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Ishmael
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 4446
Location: The US of A
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Posted: 10/26/05 - 07:55 Post subject:
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| atarom wrote: | | kireol wrote: | | atarom wrote: | i still want a skill based MMO.
Morrowind rpg i would play forever. |
like a FPS/MMO? |
make morrowind a MMO and i would be as happy as a clam.
you could have a level 50 trader that would get his ass kicked by a level 10 warrior, but could convince an NPC to kick his ass for a low price. |
I like Morrowind how it is. Fantasy will never be played out with me either.
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Mugaaz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3576
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Posted: 10/26/05 - 08:32 Post subject:
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| atarom wrote: | | kireol wrote: | | atarom wrote: | i still want a skill based MMO.
Morrowind rpg i would play forever. |
like a FPS/MMO? |
make morrowind a MMO and i would be as happy as a clam.
you could have a level 50 trader that would get his ass kicked by a level 10 warrior, but could convince an NPC to kick his ass for a low price. |
www.play.net/dr
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Tura
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 4866
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: 10/26/05 - 09:41 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | the market is for fantasy, always has been. There will be spliter groups that want non fantasy rpg's, but thoes never do as well. |
| Quote: | FPS's haven't made any worth a shit changes in years man
They're all the same game, with a few tiny changes, and better graphics. |
I have to agree with this. The last fun FPS's I played were Unreal Tournament and Counterstrike: CZ. This weekend I will be playing a ripped copy of Quake4. Might end up buying it if its worth it. The Arena-CTF looks pretty fun.
| Quote: | | EQ Pre kunark community spirit. People knew players and had reps and they mattered for various reasons. To be successful in the long term a game MUST have this. |
The only community based game I have seen since then was FFXI. Nothing will beat those first days on EQ though. 
| Quote: | | One thing's for sure, though: no game will ever capture the attention and market share EQ did in it's heyday. Kind of a shame because the whole aura around EQ really added to it's appeal (and no doubt longevity). |
yup.
I've been playing guildwars for the last week. I'm not going to give you a whole review unless you want to read the thread about it [here. Long story short, I think its worth the time to play. I still want to see how end-game plays (being as I am only level 12/20). I am having fun with it though and saving 15.00/month in the process.
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Tamrissa
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 29 Nov 2002
Posts: 7100
Location: at my computer
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Posted: 10/26/05 - 11:37 Post subject:
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N!
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Finigan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3817
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Posted: 10/26/05 - 11:54 Post subject:
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| Gethy wrote: | | Quote: | | I have yet to see a script for an FPS game or a fighting game because they involve skill and player awareness. MMO's need more twitch gameplay. |
So what is a bot in an FPS? |
Is a bot succesful at killing the player 95% of the time, like a script in EQ to camp a spawn would be?
Theres no AI in MMO's theres spawn points and pathing.
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