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Minion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 3474
Location: The Ghetto
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 Posted: 10/07/03 - 10:02 Post subject: LDoN items get shafted in their own expansion
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I don't see why this was necessary but I guess that's cause I'm not one of these pissant crybabies who feels it was a big "f**k you" to anyone who went through Ssra and VT!
http://eqlive.station.sony.com/community/dev_view.jsp?id=58728
(the items these are replacing are the 40hp/mana augments and the 20hp 20mana aug)
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 10:59 Post subject:
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Perfect! Now no one can threat Abi-whatever and his league of extraordinary whinings.
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Derringer
Luke Warm
Joined: 25 Oct 2002
Posts: 384
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 11:04 Post subject: Re: LDoN items get shafted in their own expansion
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| Minion wrote: | I don't see why this was necessary but I guess that's cause I'm not one of these pissant crybabies who feels it was a big "f**k you" to anyone who went through Ssra and VT!
http://eqlive.station.sony.com/community/dev_view.jsp?id=58728
(the items these are replacing are the 40hp/mana augments and the 20hp 20mana aug) |
I think this is just acknowledging that Elemental+ gear should be superior to LDoN Normal Adventure Point bought upgraded stuff. It was slightly superior before, and now it is adequately superior.
By my math, LDoN adventure point upgraded items now come in at a maximum of Ssra/VT level in their stats, and that seems reasonable.
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Minion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 3474
Location: The Ghetto
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 11:27 Post subject: Re: LDoN items get shafted in their own expansion
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| Derringer wrote: | | Minion wrote: | I don't see why this was necessary but I guess that's cause I'm not one of these pissant crybabies who feels it was a big "f**k you" to anyone who went through Ssra and VT!
http://eqlive.station.sony.com/community/dev_view.jsp?id=58728
(the items these are replacing are the 40hp/mana augments and the 20hp 20mana aug) |
I think this is just acknowledging that Elemental+ gear should be superior to LDoN Normal Adventure Point bought upgraded stuff. It was slightly superior before, and now it is adequately superior.
By my math, LDoN adventure point upgraded items now come in at a maximum of Ssra/VT level in their stats, and that seems reasonable. |
f**k that and f**k you buddy.
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ezzan
Luke Warm
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 192
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 11:32 Post subject:
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maintain game balance /nod
um.. when has Sony ever maintained balance?
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Derringer
Luke Warm
Joined: 25 Oct 2002
Posts: 384
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 11:47 Post subject: Re: LDoN items get shafted in their own expansion
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| Minion wrote: | | Derringer wrote: | | Minion wrote: | I don't see why this was necessary but I guess that's cause I'm not one of these pissant crybabies who feels it was a big "f**k you" to anyone who went through Ssra and VT!
http://eqlive.station.sony.com/community/dev_view.jsp?id=58728
(the items these are replacing are the 40hp/mana augments and the 20hp 20mana aug) |
I think this is just acknowledging that Elemental+ gear should be superior to LDoN Normal Adventure Point bought upgraded stuff. It was slightly superior before, and now it is adequately superior.
By my math, LDoN adventure point upgraded items now come in at a maximum of Ssra/VT level in their stats, and that seems reasonable. |
f**k that and f**k you buddy. |
Why the h8 ?
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Minion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 3474
Location: The Ghetto
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 11:56 Post subject:
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TEH UNCONTROLLABLE RAGE
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mixelplux
Luke Warm
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 344
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 12:08 Post subject:
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he lost his detachable penis?
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khalysta
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 641
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 13:14 Post subject:
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It wasnt nerfed I think its just now tuned to what they originally had in mind. I don't think they thought people would make 200hp bps and thats what the changes are about. The items listed change from all slot types to a special type 7 slot type and they introduce type 8 versions of them as well. So now you effectively nerf the bps and make them more of what they originally wanted I suppose by limiting them in hps/mana and forcing people to add effects. You will still be able to make killer equipment it just wont have super high hps anymore.
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Minion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 3474
Location: The Ghetto
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 13:17 Post subject:
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| khalysta wrote: | | It wasnt nerfed I think its just now tuned to what they originally had in mind. I don't think they thought people would make 200hp bps and thats what the changes are about. The items listed change from all slot types to a special type 7 slot type and they introduce type 8 versions of them as well. So now you effectively nerf the bps and make them more of what they originally wanted I suppose by limiting them in hps/mana and forcing people to add effects. You will still be able to make killer equipment it just wont have super high hps anymore. |
How exactly do you cook up a 200 HP breastplate anyway?
The buyable one is 100 hp, assuming you put the 40 hp aug on it and the 20hp/mana on it, thats 160, wheres the other 40 hp coming from? Seeing as how you can't put duplicate augments on the same item I don't see how thats possible.
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Izzeren
Luke Warm
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 174
Location: Louisville, KY
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 13:29 Post subject:
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| Minion wrote: | | khalysta wrote: | | It wasnt nerfed I think its just now tuned to what they originally had in mind. I don't think they thought people would make 200hp bps and thats what the changes are about. The items listed change from all slot types to a special type 7 slot type and they introduce type 8 versions of them as well. So now you effectively nerf the bps and make them more of what they originally wanted I suppose by limiting them in hps/mana and forcing people to add effects. You will still be able to make killer equipment it just wont have super high hps anymore. |
How exactly do you cook up a 200 HP breastplate anyway?
The buyable one is 100 hp, assuming you put the 40 hp aug on it and the 20hp/mana on it, thats 160, wheres the other 40 hp coming from? Seeing as how you can't put duplicate augments on the same item I don't see how thats possible. |
There is also a buyable Slot 2 40 hp type augment as well that you can buy from the Takish camp in North Ro. It cost alot less than what the all/all slot type augment cost as well.
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Minion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 3474
Location: The Ghetto
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 13:30 Post subject:
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Well that makes sense then, thanks.
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khalysta
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 641
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 14:18 Post subject:
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yup 40 hp type 2, 40 hp type 1 and 20hp/mana type 1 on the bp made 200hp bps. So what you will see on thursday is the lack of the type 1 augments since the new version of the coal will be type 7 only. So you will still be able to augment your old armor just the new stuff wont be so nice anymore. Also there are a bunch of new augments that will be of type 7 like ft, veng, regen from what I've heard along with the hp/mana/ac replacements.
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Aluaeia
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 5670
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 14:21 Post subject:
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Spiffy.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 15:36 Post subject:
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i f**k for great honor
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Catranizi
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 910
Location: Montreal, Canada
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 15:39 Post subject:
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Name one expansion that didn't get loot nerfed down after a few weeks.
Everyone knew it would come when they saw the 210hp BP link, why is anyone surprised or actually pursued these goals without waiting for Sony to do the knee-j**k reaction is beyond me.
At least they are reimbursing people. It could have been worse.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 16:33 Post subject:
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Kind of sad that they are nerfing this, you need an obscene amount of points to make that 200 HP breastplate, and the breastplate was still inferior to the Elemental BPs.
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Minion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 3474
Location: The Ghetto
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 16:36 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | Kind of sad that they are nerfing this, you need an obscene amount of points to make that 200 HP breastplate, and the breastplate was still inferior to the Elemental BPs. |
They have to.
The virtual penises of ubers would shrink when they realize that one-groupers can get shots at loot of near-quality!
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Mogling
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Dec 2002
Posts: 2451
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Posted: 10/07/03 - 20:29 Post subject:
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I could geta 200hp robe still i think with ldon...
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/08/03 - 00:22 Post subject:
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| Mogling wrote: | | I could geta 200hp robe still i think with ldon... |
Only until the uber guild whiners find out about it and proceed to feedback and email bomb the developers with how imbalancing an extra 40HP is!
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IceIsFun
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 781
Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: 10/08/03 - 06:58 Post subject:
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Actually, it is an issue of game-balance, not simply an EQRankings-Virtual-Penis issue.
The raids in LDoN are tiered. There are raids for VT-level guilds and PoTime-level guilds. A raid force is not intended to finish up their Aten farming and progress to PoTime-level raids, the main issue being the ability for their MT to be one-rounded by the raid's bosses. However, an appropriately geared PoTime-level guild should find the raid challenging, but doable. By granting access to PoTime-level HP/AC on tanks via Tak-plate, it would allow a guild to succeed in a raid that should be out of their league.
Now, it may be poor game design to require a certain level of HP/AC on your tanks to effectively progress through certain content, but that is not the issue at hand. In the future, I'd hope the content is tailored to the raid-force, tweaking the boss mobs to hit just hard enough to one-round the MT, but not so hard that it will happen every round. There were some very vocal supporters for the instanced content of LDoN, long before this expansion was released; I hope they will not forget that there are some basic game design philosophies being adhered to and not expect that all their demands are met.
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Minion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 3474
Location: The Ghetto
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Posted: 10/08/03 - 08:15 Post subject:
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| IceIsFun wrote: | | it would allow a guild to succeed in a raid that should be out of their league. |
Am I the only one who fails to see a problem with this?
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Akronn
Guest
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Posted: 10/08/03 - 08:31 Post subject:
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One day y'all are going to have to explain why you care about what others' have and what they can do.
If a guild succeeds in a raid they shouldn't have a chance in (says who, anyways?), then good for them!
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 10/08/03 - 08:48 Post subject:
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| Minion wrote: | | IceIsFun wrote: | | it would allow a guild to succeed in a raid that should be out of their league. |
Am I the only one who fails to see a problem with this? |
I do, but trying to explain it is an exercise in futility.
-Nah-
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/08/03 - 09:08 Post subject:
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| IceIsFun wrote: | Actually, it is an issue of game-balance, not simply an EQRankings-Virtual-Penis issue.
The raids in LDoN are tiered. There are raids for VT-level guilds and PoTime-level guilds. A raid force is not intended to finish up their Aten farming and progress to PoTime-level raids, the main issue being the ability for their MT to be one-rounded by the raid's bosses. However, an appropriately geared PoTime-level guild should find the raid challenging, but doable. By granting access to PoTime-level HP/AC on tanks via Tak-plate, it would allow a guild to succeed in a raid that should be out of their league.
Now, it may be poor game design to require a certain level of HP/AC on your tanks to effectively progress through certain content, but that is not the issue at hand. In the future, I'd hope the content is tailored to the raid-force, tweaking the boss mobs to hit just hard enough to one-round the MT, but not so hard that it will happen every round. There were some very vocal supporters for the instanced content of LDoN, long before this expansion was released; I hope they will not forget that there are some basic game design philosophies being adhered to and not expect that all their demands are met. |
You miss the entire point. EQ "high end" raiding is a huge kludge of a cluster f**k created because of guilds like FOH/AL/LoS who constantly demanded more 'raid content' and were pushing the extent of what they could do in the game. EQ has somewhat evolved into a small unit tactics game instead of a fantasy roleplaying game.
Simply letting Joe Warrior from DSoTM who is level 65, has 400 AAs to get a 69AC 200HP BP is not going to suddenly allow him to tank a quad 3300 hitter (oh yah who also procs a 3000DD ). Even if it did, the amount of effort to create that BP is far greater than the effort most people in raid guilds put in to obtain their loot. He also needs a 160HP legs, 140HP boots, 150HP gaunts, an EB weapon, etc, etc... Add up how many raids to get a full suit of augmented Royal Attendant armor would be? something around 35,000 points? I doubt anyone will EVER get that.
As usual sony reacts to uber whining instead of fixing the real problems. Where are the fixes for Avatar 2 in Poair? Or fixing the walls in PoWater? Or fixing the geometry in Pofire where certain models get stuck on objects? Or fixing the Dusty Warder spawns in PoE? I have sent repeated bugs on each of these. Instead all they hear is incessant whining because someone not in an 'uber guild' has the capabiltity to make a 200 HP BP! A 69 AC/160HP BP is still 2nd or 3rd best in game, and still doesn't imbalance a single thing for the effort to create it. But, at least, the uber virtual penix is still superior.
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Mogling
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Dec 2002
Posts: 2451
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Posted: 10/08/03 - 10:03 Post subject:
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Aug 2 Glowing Saphire of Courage HP:40
Aug 1 Ooze-Covered Pebble of Perfection Notlore, HP:20, Mana:20
Aug 2 Yellowish Magnetite of Vitality Notlore, HP:30
sorry only 190 hp :\ 5 better then the enchanter time robe
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khalysta
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 641
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Posted: 10/08/03 - 11:05 Post subject:
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Ooze covered pebble of perfection is one of the items being switched to only work in type 7 slots. The bp is one type 1, one type 2 and one type 3 on test. So you can do the glowing saphire of courage, cant add the ooze covered pebble and you have a slot 3 where no hp items are known. I'm not sure what type 1 items will be availible yet though.[/code]
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Minion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 3474
Location: The Ghetto
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Posted: 10/08/03 - 11:47 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | IceIsFun wrote: | Actually, it is an issue of game-balance, not simply an EQRankings-Virtual-Penis issue.
The raids in LDoN are tiered. There are raids for VT-level guilds and PoTime-level guilds. A raid force is not intended to finish up their Aten farming and progress to PoTime-level raids, the main issue being the ability for their MT to be one-rounded by the raid's bosses. However, an appropriately geared PoTime-level guild should find the raid challenging, but doable. By granting access to PoTime-level HP/AC on tanks via Tak-plate, it would allow a guild to succeed in a raid that should be out of their league.
Now, it may be poor game design to require a certain level of HP/AC on your tanks to effectively progress through certain content, but that is not the issue at hand. In the future, I'd hope the content is tailored to the raid-force, tweaking the boss mobs to hit just hard enough to one-round the MT, but not so hard that it will happen every round. There were some very vocal supporters for the instanced content of LDoN, long before this expansion was released; I hope they will not forget that there are some basic game design philosophies being adhered to and not expect that all their demands are met. |
You miss the entire point. EQ "high end" raiding is a huge kludge of a cluster f**k created because of guilds like FOH/AL/LoS who constantly demanded more 'raid content' and were pushing the extent of what they could do in the game. EQ has somewhat evolved into a small unit tactics game instead of a fantasy roleplaying game.
Simply letting Joe Warrior from DSoTM who is level 65, has 400 AAs to get a 69AC 200HP BP is not going to suddenly allow him to tank a quad 3300 hitter (oh yah who also procs a 3000DD ). Even if it did, the amount of effort to create that BP is far greater than the effort most people in raid guilds put in to obtain their loot. He also needs a 160HP legs, 140HP boots, 150HP gaunts, an EB weapon, etc, etc... Add up how many raids to get a full suit of augmented Royal Attendant armor would be? something around 35,000 points? I doubt anyone will EVER get that.
As usual sony reacts to uber whining instead of fixing the real problems. Where are the fixes for Avatar 2 in Poair? Or fixing the walls in PoWater? Or fixing the geometry in Pofire where certain models get stuck on objects? Or fixing the Dusty Warder spawns in PoE? I have sent repeated bugs on each of these. Instead all they hear is incessant whining because someone not in an 'uber guild' has the capabiltity to make a 200 HP BP! A 69 AC/160HP BP is still 2nd or 3rd best in game, and still doesn't imbalance a single thing for the effort to create it. But, at least, the uber virtual penix is still superior. |
Furthermore, people who cannot yeild to the ridiculous time consumption requirements that most high end guilds have basically cannot advance their character. Lots of people can log on for 90 minutes to complete an adventure every day, but not everyone can attend six hour raids.
At least the way it is now, the average player has the opportunity to get relatively equal gear without joining ultra-guild-129038 and having to put up with people they despise, just for a shot at great gear.
Regarding the 35k points though, people will get that many. Just like the idea of getting 600 or whatever AA seemed absurd at one time, it'll be done just as everything else has.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/08/03 - 13:05 Post subject:
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Beels how many people do you think will actually spend that much time on LDoN? In beta i thought the concept was great, then, as usual, when it went retail they totally f****d the points and the rewards to favor people who do nothing but play EQ. The only people who will get those kind of points? Uber guild people who basically do nothing but play EQ
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eqchanter
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 1544
Location: tennessee
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Posted: 10/08/03 - 13:05 Post subject:
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I think some people already have over 15k points. Personaly I like the raids better just to see that content of the game. Granted it's the same old shit usually but so is lots of 90 min adventures to save up points.
You're really putting in about the same amount of time to get the gear. You can just do it with less people and somewhat less difficulty. So who gives a shit really.
I don't know the complete stats but they really don't equal VT/Elemental etc do they? I mean as far as total stats go not just HP. The 5hp difference described earlier means nothing really. How often dose 5 hps more save you? And if im not mistakeing the loots from VT/Elemental/Time are about the same pre augmented. So if anything you could put in some time on adcentures while not raiding and make them better.
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