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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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 Posted: 07/09/03 - 23:50 Post subject: Kireol's Israel bash = b******t
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remember a month or so ago Kireol posted that link to the website where the Israelis bombed an American warship in the Mediterranean as proof how bad Israel was and so on... claimed there were thousands of websites and mountains of evidence to support him?
Well apparently newly declassified transcripts prove that it was indeed an accident (read the first bolded paragraphs for the main issue):
| Quote: | JERUSALEM — Newly declassified transcripts back up Israel's claim that its attack on a U.S. spy ship during the 1967 Middle East war was an accident, a Florida judge who has been investigating the case for 16 years said Wednesday.
Israel has always maintained it thought the USS Liberty (search) was an Egyptian military supply ship when it ordered its forces to attack on June 8, 1967, killing 34 American sailors and wounding 171. But critics charge Israel knew the ship was American. Questions about the case have long dogged U.S.-Israel relations.
Miami Judge A. Jay Cristol (search) received transcripts of transmissions from two Israeli helicopter pilots, sent to check for survivors after the attack. The pilots referred to the ship as Egyptian and were surprised to discover it was flying an American flag.
The recordings, in Hebrew, were made by a U.S. spy plane hovering over the site.
The transcript of the transmissions records the air controller telling one of the pilots, "The ship is now identified as Egyptian, you can return home now.".
Cristol told The Associated Press (search) he received the transcripts after submitting a Freedom of Information request to the U.S. National Security Agency, which had kept the recordings secret for 37 years. After his request was denied, Cristol filed suit in federal court and forced their release.
Agency spokesman Patrick Weadon confirmed Cristol had been sent the transcripts.
"We provided the tapes as part of the historical record," Weadon said. "The agency takes no official position on what happened to the Liberty."
Cristol, who has written a book about the case, said, the tapes "show both the helicopter pilots and their controller ... believed the Israeli air force had targeted an Egyptian ship."
A National Security Agency summary of the incident says the Israelis were confused over the stricken ship's identity more than an hour after the attack.
Cristol provided the summary and full transcripts of the pilot and tower recordings to The Associated Press.
Israel has long maintained the attack was the result of a tragic mistake during the heat of battle. Israel was at war with Egypt, Syria and Jordan at the time.
An Israeli commission of inquiry concluded the Israeli air force believed the targeted ship was an Egyptian cargo vessel ferrying supplies to Egyptian troops fighting Israeli forces.
However, some of the Liberty's survivors and some officials in the U.S. defense establishment have rejected this view, contending Israel deliberately targeted the ship to keep the United States from learning that Israel was planning to attack Syria as part of its strategy during the war.
The Israeli daily Haaretz, which first reported the disclosures in its Wednesday edition, quoted Cristol as saying the tape transcripts were the last classified intelligence about the Liberty.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,91524,00.html |
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 07/09/03 - 23:58 Post subject:
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I read that article several hours ago and was wondering how long it would take Vekril to post it.
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Kantiz
Sir Postalot
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1267
Location: Harrisburg, PA
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 00:02 Post subject:
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Not sure if that's funny or sad.
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 00:17 Post subject:
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sad
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Kantiz
Sir Postalot
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1267
Location: Harrisburg, PA
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 00:27 Post subject:
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Yeah, just checking.
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Kikk
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 695
Location: Jacksonville, NC
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 06:25 Post subject:
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b******t. Whatever the "agency" provided was most likely f*****g lies just like the rest of the coverup.
Read the reports FROM EVERY SINGLE SURVING MEMBER d*****s.
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Banzai
Guest
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 10:48 Post subject:
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SUPER JEW TO THE RESCUE!!!
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 10:50 Post subject:
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I always thought we knew this??? Doesn't change the fact they're murderers too, though.
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 11:17 Post subject:
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murderers? it happened during wartime Akronn - so you are saying the US is murderers because we killed people in Iraq?
this just lends more credence to the fact that it was a tragic accident, from a nation fighting for its very existence against 3 invading armies - rather than some evil conspiracy against the US by the "evil Zionist entity"
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 11:21 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | murderers? it happened during wartime Akronn - so you are saying the US is murderers because we killed people in Iraq?
this just lends more credence to the fact that it was a tragic accident, from a nation fighting for its very existence against 3 invading armies - rather than some evil conspiracy against the US by the "evil Zionist entity" |
Americans were called murderers when a group of Canadians were mistaken for Taliban and killed. And they didn't continue attacking for hours.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 11:22 Post subject:
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| Vekril wrote: | | murderers? it happened during wartime Akronn - so you are saying the US is murderers because we killed people in Iraq? |
I believe my opinion on our recent land grab... err I mean war is well documented. Throw in the fact that we weren't even hitting the correct targets anyways, and yeah I'd say our admin's hands are covered in blood. Personally, I'm ashamed.
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compusmack
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 6354
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 11:49 Post subject:
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wow you guys just argue to argue.
It was obviously a mistake, but it doesn't matter anymore since it was several years ago.
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Maldek
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 2089
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 11:51 Post subject:
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| compusmack wrote: | | It was obviously a mistake, but it doesn't matter anymore since it was several years ago. |
so if I kill you, it won't matter in a couple of years?
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compusmack
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 6354
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 11:53 Post subject:
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| Maldek wrote: | | compusmack wrote: | | It was obviously a mistake, but it doesn't matter anymore since it was several years ago. |
so if I kill you, it won't matter in a couple of years? |
Mistakes happen, that's just part of war.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 11:56 Post subject:
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If we can't bash them for this mistake, can we bash Israel for their continued lack of compitence in regards to how they are dealing with their water crisis? That'd be a good discussion!
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 13:23 Post subject:
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I don't read anything from, or relating to, the piece of shit known as Fox News.
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
Location: Jersey
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 16:54 Post subject:
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Rennol prefers the Clinton News Network of course, the network that covered up for Saddam for 12 years so its journalists could get the scoops on stories
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Thuphir
Luke Warm
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 206
Location: Baton Rouge
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 17:05 Post subject:
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It's easier to bash the Israelis for the 1982 slaughter of over 800 refugees at the Sabra an Shatila camps when Sharon was Defence Minister. Also, the simple fact that Jewish-only settlement outposts have actually increased and not decreased since the Aqaba Summit conference on June 4.
There are over 200 Zionist settlements in between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, making it virtually impossible to have a viable Palestinian state. The roads that link these settlements are Jewish only; surrounding and bypassing the Palestinian population centers, cutting them off from each other, resulting in the increased ghettoization of these cities.
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Janoth
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 3135
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 19:26 Post subject:
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What was Israel's motivation for attacking an American ship, and whats America's motivation for helping them cover it up if they did, in fact, purposly and knowingly sink an American vessel?
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Kikk
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 695
Location: Jacksonville, NC
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 20:21 Post subject:
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Why don't ya go look it up and decide for yourself Jano. There are a ton of sights out there about the USS Liberty and survivors maintain a couple of them.
I would concede that "maybe" the initial conflict was mistaken identity but after several hours of bombardment from torpedo boats that were only a few yards away I cannot see how anyone in their right mind could call it anything else other than finishing what they started.
After the first flag was shot to pieces (which was done deliberately) they raised a f*****g holiday flag which you would be able to see for miles because it is so damn big. They signaled multiple times using a variety of different means (flags, Morse code, radio) all of which were ignored.
For f***s sake hours after the initial conflict started Israeli helicopters hovered over deck for several minutes to survey the damage before sending in more fire. There might be a few blonde haired blue eyed Egyptians out there but I'd be damned if you would find a whole ship of them.
“The torpedo boats came within 50 feet of the ship, couldn't see the American flag on the mast, couldn't see the words "USS LIBERTY" on the stern, couldn't see "GTR-5" in 6 1/2 foot letters on the bow. The boats shot at American sailors on the deck of the Liberty as the sailors tried to help one another. As life rafts were put in the water by Liberty sailors in preparation for abandoning the ship, the boats shot them up. One boat pulled one out of the water and took it on board. Didn't see the words "USS LIBERTY" stenciled on it. The boats left the scene, apparently when they got erroneous word that the carriers had sent fighters to help the Liberty. “
Just one excerpt from a survivor of this “accident” and you will find hundreds more just like it.
As to the cover up that is something you have to decide for yourself bro but from the very start it was classified top secret. The initial reports from our President stated that only ten people died in an accident aboard the ship in a case of mistaken identity that lasted 6 minutes (34 actually died and it lasted several hours). The sailors were ordered not to speak to anyone about this incident or they would be court martialed.
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Kikk
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 695
Location: Jacksonville, NC
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 20:24 Post subject:
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Just one more point.
The Americans on board didn't know at first who was attacking them. They could not believe that it would be their "allies". They had radio communications for the first few minutes of the battle and called in help from an aircraft carrier that was a few miles away. The carrier signaled back that they were sending fighters over but the President called the carrier a few minutes later and canceled those orders.
The sailors on board never knew they weren't getting any help because by this time they had lost all radio contact.
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Janoth
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 3135
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 20:27 Post subject:
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I'm not claiming you are wrong, I was just curious. Never heard any real facts on the subject. The first thing I ask myself in situations like this is What is the perpetrators motives for doing whatever they are accused of doing. I don't see why Israel would deliberatly attack the US all things considered. I know right now approval rating of the US government is higher in Israel than it is in the United States, and the US is basically the only reason Israel hasn't been wiped off the face of the earth. Was it different back then?
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Janoth
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 3135
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 20:29 Post subject:
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| Kikk wrote: | Just one more point.
The Americans on board didn't know at first who was attacking them. They could not believe that it would be their "allies". They had radio communications for the first few minutes of the battle and called in help from an aircraft carrier that was a few miles away. The carrier signaled back that they were sending fighters over but the President called the carrier a few minutes later and canceled those orders.
The sailors on board never knew they weren't getting any help because by this time they had lost all radio contact. |
God that is f****d up. One of the reasons I like Bush is he would never allow for any b******t like that. Even if it was Britain attacking an insignificant boat i'de like to think he would allow the military to defend itself.
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Kikk
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 695
Location: Jacksonville, NC
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 20:32 Post subject:
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I don't know "why" other than to state others opinions on the matter Janoth but it was a cover up. And it was a cover up from both sides--even to this day.
There are many reports from survivors waving at the Israeli pilots flying over them in the days before this incident and the pilots waving back. The Israelis KNEW they were there.
The Egyptian ship that they claim is the one they attacked looks NOTHING like the USS liberty.
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Janoth
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 3135
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 20:37 Post subject:
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Seems like the more likely scenario is that they did believe it was an Egyptian ship, just from what i've read here. Maybe they thought they were just trying to pose as Americans not to get capped? All i'm saying is it wouldn't make any sense for Israel to attack an American ship. It does them absolutly no good, is a PR nightmare, and America has never done ANYTHING to Israel that would make them want to do anything short of suck our c**k. It would be the equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot. No one would do it on purpose =P
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Kikk
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 695
Location: Jacksonville, NC
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 20:39 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | God that is f****d up. One of the reasons I like Bush is he would never allow for any b******t like that. Even if it was Britain attacking an insignificant boat i'de like to think he would allow the military to defend itself. |
Well think about this Janoth and tell me if you see a conspiracy.
Remember they only had use of the radio for the first few minutes.
They did not know who was attacking them when they asked for help.
The carrier radioed back saying they were sending fighters to help (I presume the fleet didn’t know who it was at this time either). They scrambled the jets which only takes a few minutes to do considering they were on standby just in case something like this happened.
The call came in while the fighters were in route (only a few miles away so this was only minutes later) to turn back.
THE ATTACK LASTED FOR SEVERAL HOURS.
Somebody f*****g knew that it was Israeli boats, helo's and jets attacking the ship but yet it continued for hours?
How is that possible?
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Kikk
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 695
Location: Jacksonville, NC
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 20:42 Post subject:
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Janoth go read about it bro but don't take the word from just one sight. There are litteraly hundreds of sights out there man.
Israel had some VERY good reasons to want to attack that ship.
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Janoth
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 3135
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 20:43 Post subject:
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It's definatly weird. It makes no sense period.. The conspiracy theory makes no sense, but the "it was an accedent" theory doesn't hold much water either. There is obviously more to this than we know about, but with the given information theres no way to judge one way or another imo. I just really can't fathom any reason Israel has to blow up not only an allied boat, but an AMERICAN boat.... Their lifeblood.
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Kikk
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 695
Location: Jacksonville, NC
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 20:44 Post subject:
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Oh and btw that Egyptian shit they claimed it to be had been in dock for months in Alexandria waiting to be scrapped for junk.
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Janoth
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 3135
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Posted: 07/10/03 - 20:44 Post subject:
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| Kikk wrote: | Janoth go read about it bro but don't take the word from just one sight. There are litteraly hundreds of sights out there man.
Israel had some VERY good reasons to want to attack that ship. |
What reasons??? I guess I could spend hours looking it up but wtf I am tired lol. Obviously if they had some sort of motivation to attack the ship then the conspiracy theory would hold more water.......
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