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Manuva
Banned
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2536
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 Posted: 03/17/03 - 18:52 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | The idea of them then going forward and running over an innocent woman is just an example of how badly we have all become de-sensitized to our humanity.
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As Minion said, there was nothing innocent about this girl. She stood there to hinder an Israeli military objective, and she got her ass plowed over for it. Her choice, too bad, so sad.
This sentiment alone would be the only reason why we would not have a sweeping victory in Iraq..."OMG PEOPLE CAN DIE IN TIMES OF WAR!?!??!"
If you're prepared to be a human shield, expect the worse.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 18:58 Post subject:
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Time of war? Military Objective? No...this is an example where a) Israel has evicted the people living there already and b) are now sending in their own people.
You have to realize that the Israeli's were not given this area. They just choose to take it because, well, they can. Some people feel that isn't right, and you know what? It's not like I <i>agree</i> with them, but at the same time, they f*****g killed an American there. Like its O.K. for Israelis to just waltz in and take all the Palestinian settlements for themselves. Personally I think the Israeli's are a bunch of scumbags. So are the Palestinians. It's sad that an American woman lost her life over such a petty thing. However it also demonstrates the gayness of the entire area.
Should just vaporize Jerusalem. That might shut all the f*****s up.
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Manuva
Banned
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2536
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 19:14 Post subject:
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I will agree with you that we should just leave Israel and Palestine to their own devices.
But I can't draw sympathy for this woman. She died of her own choice. I would no sooner sympathize for her than I would for the people blown to shit by having themselves chained to an Iraqi munitions factory to stop us from bombing it.
You want to be a human shield? Fine, but expect to die.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 19:24 Post subject:
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You make it sound like you're impervious to her attempt at trying to show that people out there care .... The fact that she has to give up her life to show how serious the issue is doesn't matter right? She gave it up anyways, who cares?
Obviously you don't, which you've stated.
Yay, you win, you weren't duped into believing she was innocent! Here's a cookie you heartless fools. err wait...I lost the link..fek.
Your skill in logic has increased (2)
Your skill in compassion has decreased (die)
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 19:35 Post subject:
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I don't see why people are so callous about this. Obviously she didn't want to die - she was willing to die. There's a huge difference. And she wasn't even just willing to die for something that would benefit her personally, but for something that would help other people less fortunate than she was. And she didn't die instantly; she died later, in pain, knowing what had happened to her.
I don't see how anyone could fail to be moved by that kind of courage and sacrifice.
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 19:42 Post subject:
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23 years old and she left her country to go help the others, and lost her life for her beleives.
Not many people would have done what she did, it takes some serious guts.
Of course she prob didnt planed to die that way...
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Kazkuk
Luke Warm
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 329
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 19:43 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | Personally I think the Israeli's are a bunch of scumbags. So are the Palestinians. It's sad that an American woman lost her life over such a petty thing.
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So it doesnt really matter that a person died, just that she was an american. So rennol, how many israeli's (or scumbags as you prefer to call them) lives amount to 1 american life? 2? 3?
Hah, you even called the cause she died for "a petty thing". Stop pretending you care about this women.
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Omol
Luke Warm
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 304
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 19:50 Post subject:
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Obviously common sense eluded her.I mean shit you have this big ass vehicle moving towards you common sense would say move..
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 19:53 Post subject:
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I think its funny how people mourn for stuff like this and I always end up thinking who gives a shit? You say people become desensitized to humanity but maybe its people actually realizing what humanity is..
anyway we get our war soon atleast should be intersting.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 19:54 Post subject:
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Shut up Kazkuk. I didn't know her. I care for her on principle. The principle of compassion for our compatriots. It didn't matter who it was. The fact was that it happened. And for your information, no amount of foreign lives is worth American loss of life. That is why it was better to nuke 140,000 Japs into nothing so that no Americans died invading the island of Japan itself.
f**k you.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 19:57 Post subject:
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I care for her because she was willing to risk everything for her ideals. The world doesn't get changed by people using their common sense.
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 19:58 Post subject:
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lol if the numbers hadnt shown that 250 hundred thousand allied troops would die in the taking of japan they would have done it.. 50k - 100k dead was probably the aceptable casualty rate.. look at what the nukes cost us we are STILL paying for that decision.. was it worth it? who knows.
| Quote: | | I care for her because she was willing to risk everything for her ideals. The world doesn't get changed by people using their common sense. |
thats probably true.. but the world doesnt get changed by people without a shread of decent logic either.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 20:02 Post subject:
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Shut the f**k up Tolanin, you are a retard. Your first couple of posts just insinuated that you were an uncaring byproduct of the ME generation, your latest one has confirmed that you are a Grade-A moron.
Grats.
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 20:13 Post subject:
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I would argue with you on what you said but you didnt really have an arguement so i cant sorry =(
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kireol
Guest
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 20:41 Post subject:
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| Ashenor wrote: | all i have to say, which may shock some is, any moron that puts themself in harms way, should expect harm.
and israel would have to be the most stupid country on the planet to strike at the US on purpose again.
and I highly doubt that an order came from the Israeli government to run her over with a bull dozer =) |
fek. forgot to log off him. that was from me =P
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attarom
Total Newbie
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 37
Location: NBC studios in New York
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Posted: 03/17/03 - 21:43 Post subject:
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hahahahhaha lolol
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 03/18/03 - 01:05 Post subject:
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It's too bad she died, but maybe it will send a message to other pushy activists that sometimes people don't give a shit about you or your opinions, so shut the f**k up and get out of the f*****g way before you get hurt.
So this american girl is yelling something through a bullhorn like "No oppression of innocent people!" which translates to the Israeli driving the bulldozer as "HL guongflo8 zarrzaf lu1Rzz!", then SQUATS in front of it so he can't even see her through the 1 foot of bulletproof glass he's behind and then gets crushed. What a shocker.
I bet she envisioned it ending with him throwing up his hands in disgust and turning the bulldozer around in failure, and her and her friends exchanging celebratory high fives and excitedly gabbing about their triumph over tyranny in the local coffee house that evening. Maybe she had planned to call her parents and tell them the great news later on, perhaps even an Oprah appearance when she got back to the states?
Anyways, she's already a martyr here in the chiq, yuppie/hippy county I live in. There was a candlelight vigil in the eccentric town near my work. I bet they held hands and sang songs of peace while the 49 year-old l*****n goddesses eyed each other lustliy as the soy cocoa and rice cakes were passed to and fro.
Ok I'm done now, sorry
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Minion
Guest
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Posted: 03/18/03 - 07:01 Post subject:
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| Tolanin wrote: | | Quote: | | I care for her because she was willing to risk everything for her ideals. The world doesn't get changed by people using their common sense. |
thats probably true.. but the world doesnt get changed by people without a shread of decent logic either. |
What would be logical to you?
She put her ideas in front of herself. How is that a bad thing? Because she died? She accepted it, so what makes her thoughts illogical? She did only what she thought she could do to support her ideology. Seems logical to me.
Perhaps if she had died trying to run away, or was sitting in the hospital regretting having stood there, I might have called it stupidity. But there's nothing in that article that seems to imply that she had any regrets about the decisions she made.
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Zapper
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1512
Location: Connecticut
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Posted: 03/18/03 - 16:10 Post subject:
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She probably thought Mr Prosser would come and take her place eventually.
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Kikk
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 695
Location: Jacksonville, NC
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Posted: 03/19/03 - 10:26 Post subject:
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dunno but I see a big glass window on that dozer lol.
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Xthos
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 550
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Posted: 03/19/03 - 10:48 Post subject:
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I have never been in one of those bulldozers, but I find it believable (maybe not true, I don't know) that he couldn't see her. It's called a "field of vision" and she might of been out of it, she was kneeled. I am sure the blade on that thing isn't small, I will have to go take a look at the pic again. Could be like seeing a pop can 6 inches in front of your car?
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Manuva
Banned
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2536
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Posted: 03/19/03 - 10:57 Post subject:
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That is very possible.
I didn't realize she was kneeled, it's most likely he couldn't see her because of the blade.
I worked for a county road crew for awhile, one thing they stressed is to stay the f**k away from the dozers and the other heavy machinery, because you might think the driver can see you, but it's easy to have an impaired range of vision in those things.
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Haroun Zehra
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1235
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Posted: 03/19/03 - 13:15 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | | You have to realize that the Israeli's were not given this area. They just choose to take it because, well, they can. |
This is just factually WRONG, Rennol. This land is Israeli land because Jordan attacked Israel in an act of unprovoked agression and Israel WON. This territory is still Israel. It will remain so until the P.A. lives up to its end of the agreement.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 03/19/03 - 13:30 Post subject:
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Haroun, when Israel was made, it was carved out of existing countries. Now they are overstepping the bounds that were made for them. I don't have any sympathy for them. We gave them their country - now they want more. They are aggressors just like the A-rabs are down there. They are both idiotic.
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Kaladam
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1110
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Posted: 03/19/03 - 13:51 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | | Haroun, when Israel was made, it was carved out of existing countries. Now they are overstepping the bounds that were made for them. I don't have any sympathy for them. We gave them their country - now they want more. They are aggressors just like the A-rabs are down there. They are both idiotic. |
They were attacked, fought back, and WON that land you f*****g pothead.
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Mental_Hernia
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3336
Location: Texas
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Posted: 03/19/03 - 14:01 Post subject:
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Look what religion does; centuries worth of warfare for a piece of land
Religion = humanity's biggest mistake
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 03/19/03 - 14:25 Post subject:
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Yes, they won the land that was given to them, back.
"NOOOO, DADDY SAID THIS IS MY ROOM SO GET TFO! Nnnnnnoooo, Daddy said it's myyyy room."
Just like a bunch of spoiled three year olds.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 03/19/03 - 15:15 Post subject:
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Israel was attacked over 25 years ago. They repelled an Egyptian invasian from the Sinai peninsula, then occupied the land, then after a treaty they went back to their own borders IIRC, however they did retain portions of their conquered territories.
That is different then bulldozing Palestinian settlements.
I've said it before.. Palestinians are worth half a shit. They send in suicide bombers to kill innocent Israeli's. Noone likes seeing the news stories about how 5 teens were killed in a pizza place or some shit by a crazed Hamas suicide fuckface.
At the same time.. Israeli's are doing nothing but provoking the situation by turning the place where the Palestinians have lived into a detainment camp almost. Israel has tanks, assault weapons, APC's, and modern equipment. Palestinians have rocks and C-4 packs that they strap to themselves. It's a dirty conflict and it sucks.
Hopefully they just kill themselves eventually.
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Haroun Zehra
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1235
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Posted: 03/19/03 - 15:21 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | | Haroun, when Israel was made, it was carved out of existing countries. Now they are overstepping the bounds that were made for them. I don't have any sympathy for them. We gave them their country - now they want more. They are aggressors just like the A-rabs are down there. They are both idiotic. |
Again, this is incorrect.
The UN granted Israel statehood, on land owned almost entirely at that point by Jews, for a Jewish state. Upon declaration of independance, the Arab world attacked the nascent Jewish state en masse... and lost.
The Palestinians and Israeli's negotiated a series of accords for the land the Palestinians are now inhabiting in Israel. The Palestinians promised an end to any agression. They have violated that promise, they have lied. How you think Israel is overstepping any bounds is beyond me. It does show that you don't have all the information on the history as recently as the Camp David accords or the agreements signed three years ago.
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Haroun Zehra
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1235
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Posted: 03/19/03 - 15:37 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | | Israel was attacked over 25 years ago. They repelled an Egyptian invasian from the Sinai peninsula, then occupied the land, then after a treaty they went back to their own borders IIRC, however they did retain portions of their conquered territories. |
They were also attacked by Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. They also beat these forces, and won land from these agressors. They were attacked in 1948, and won. Then they were attacked twice more in successive decades, and also won. And yes, much later, they gave back ALL of the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt in exchange for a peace agreement.
| Quote: | | That is different then bulldozing Palestinian settlements. |
They're not doing this for kicks. They have a clear policy: any town that supports/ encourages terrorism will be punished. If you have a bomb-building setup in your basement, expect your house to be razed. That's what is going on... these are not innocent people being displaced.
| Quote: | | At the same time.. Israeli's are doing nothing but provoking the situation by turning the place where the Palestinians have lived into a detainment camp almost. |
You're right. The fact that Israel has said, REPEATEDLY, "If you stop the bombing you will HAVE YOUR f*****g LAND ALL TO YOURSELVES. All you have to do is stop blowing us up for a specific, mutually agreed upon length of time" is nothing but a provocation for terrorism.
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