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Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
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 Posted: 02/10/04 - 13:25 Post subject: Is EQ just getting too complicated?
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Leadership points and shit ..
I remember back in the day pre-any expansion when you could log in with almost any group setup and fight in the best dungeons . .
You could improvize, fight how you wanted, whatever you did barring not doing anything was pretty effective...
Now everything is like YOU MUST HAVE GROUP SETUP X WHERE PARTY MEMBER B FOLLOWS STEPS 1 2 3 4 AND 5 WHEN A BATTLE BEGINS OR YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY
I havnt been playing at all in the past few months (in fact cancelled my second account so now I have no active subscription) and this whole leadership points and leadership group setup is just one more add to make the game way too complicated . . Just looking at it now im like "wtf is that?" .. and "how the hell does that work" . ..
I mean what ever happened to a nice simple game .. why does everything have to be so massively complex .. i remember doing other shit while I was playing EQ .. now what? full attention on the EQ screen while repeating steps over and over and over again in a boring tedium . . .
uhh i dont know .. just my thoughts .. why the hell am i even wasting time thinking about this
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Gethy
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5599
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 13:35 Post subject:
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You never played a bard (correctly), did you?
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Are you skilled mage or a hardboiled warrior in search for most suitable guild to join?
Or if you're already guild member ready to share some real PvP experience…
» Join the Guild Wars forum now! «
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 13:38 Post subject:
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Didn't you write a post once saying you hated people who read, and you didn't see the point in reading? 
I thought Augments were a little confusing at first, and the whole "complete this annoying quest" preflag-like-thing just to get permission to use the expansion you just bought (LDoN) was ... annoying.
Seems like the same EQ as ever to me. I've even lost some of my boiling hatred for PoP now that Omen has shown me how easy it is.
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Desaitar
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 2641
Location: whore island
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 13:39 Post subject:
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i think a problem is instead of making good new content with a good storyline they are makin crappy new stuff like instancing
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 13:42 Post subject:
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Instancing is awesome. I hate camp checks, LFG and killstealing. Sure, it's fun in some places like seb, where you can fear a frog and gate when the train heads back to ya but when you've only got 2 hours... instanced LDoN stuff is awesome.
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 13:47 Post subject:
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Even tho I don't play as much I still think LDoN was one of their better expansions 
I hope GoD continues that trend.
-Nah-
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 13:53 Post subject:
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I liked Ykesha better, because most zones have 3-7 ppl in em.  Plus the architecture in Ykesha was great. Well... better than West Karana or PoV. 
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Valhal
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 778
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 13:57 Post subject:
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Racing Haka for spawns in Velks > Instancing
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Gethy
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5599
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 14:00 Post subject:
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After having done 200 adventures, though, it begins to get a little tedious, but it's still convenient as all hell.
One way or the other, knowing the amount of work I put into each adventure, I tend to remember why I quit my bard a few years back.
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Desaitar
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 2641
Location: whore island
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 14:06 Post subject:
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exactly valhal, it is why instancing sux, being in a zone where u knew the people that hunted there often and learned the zone so well as to time spawns was ownage, velks owange
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 14:10 Post subject:
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I can't stress this enough. It's wonderful you people are in the minority.
-Nah-
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quotison
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1594
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 14:12 Post subject:
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Yeah, instancing sucks. The Euro guilds and other early raiding guilds are so much more skilled then anyone else. /nod
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Lumberg_fekdher
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 1923
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 14:16 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | | Instancing is awesome. I hate camp checks, LFG and killstealing. Sure, it's fun in some places like seb, where you can fear a frog and gate when the train heads back to ya but when you've only got 2 hours... instanced LDoN stuff is awesome. |
I play for fun and rolling and wiping and drama isnt half as fun as getting loot because you beat a mob, not beat a mob and 50+ teenagers
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motherface
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 3407
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 14:34 Post subject:
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| Desaitar wrote: | | exactly valhal, it is why instancing sux, being in a zone where u knew the people that hunted there often and learned the zone so well as to time spawns was ownage, velks owange |
Is it surprising that the king of all trains liked it better when there were people around for him to train? Wonder if he trains his own LDoN group for nostalgia purposes.
"Those were the days. *snif*"
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Brael
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2122
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 15:03 Post subject:
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LDoN exp stuff was great nah, not a fan of the raids they had though because 36 people is just to few people for the raiding content designed to immeaditly follow up time.
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 15:10 Post subject:
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| Brael wrote: | | LDoN exp stuff was great nah, not a fan of the raids they had though because 36 people is just to few people for the raiding content designed to immeaditly follow up time. |
I'm not sure if you meant nah as in me or nah as in no.. in which case I think LDoN was excellent.. even if you only used it to xp. If you weren't elemental flagged you could usually get a decent amount of xp. Sure it didn't beat Tactics or whatever, but the fact you could earn points to buy gear that was a good contender more than made up for that. In any event this argument was beat to the ground the first time around. I meant Des and Valhal were in the minority, thank god.
-Nah-
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 16:16 Post subject:
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instancing is only fun if you play EQ for the sole purpose of getting loot and lvls, if all you want is to be handed crap on a silver platter and only invest time in it instancing is for you. Maybe someday they will come up with a thing that just gives you an injection and you fall asleep for 2 hours wake up and have your exp and ldon points because the time is the only hard part of it!
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Wiccans
Luke Warm
Joined: 20 Jul 2003
Posts: 483
Location: Canada
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 16:39 Post subject:
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| Tolanin wrote: | | Maybe someday they will come up with a thing that just gives you an injection and you fall asleep for 2 hours wake up and have your exp and ldon points |
Do you think I could get this in IV drip format? I'd like to get a constant hit of xp and points! =P
LDON held virtually no interest to me at all personally, I play to raid, not to XP grind. But Nah has an excellent point. LDON was geared towards giving those who aren't in the raiding guilds a chance to get loot that was approaching the same calibre of elemental+ loot (in some cases, the LDON items with Aug's are even better). For the hardcore raiders, LDON sucked. But for the majority of EQ, who isn't a hardcore raider, it was an excellent expansion.
To the point of the original post... I don't think EQ's gotten more complicated. They've not really "required" you to do anything more complex than you originally did. Don't wanna use leadership tools, fine, don't use them. Not like you can't group and play without them.
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 16:46 Post subject:
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| Tolanin wrote: | | if all you want is to be handed crap on a silver platter and only invest time in it instancing is for you. |
I don't see how you figure that. If you are in an LDoN group of, say 6 people that requires 100% participation to complete, as opposed to a raid of 40.. how much per capita participation is actually required? To the best of my knowledge the stereotype of the AFK monk or the warrior who hits auto attack and walks off to get a beer did NOT come out of LDoN adventures.
Rating "difficulty" isn't a realistic comparison, but as for your statement that LDoN was free loot ... well that's just silly.
If you want to look at it another way, I'll turn the question to you. You claim that LDoN awards for investing time only. What else is required to be successful in a high level guild? Judging by some of the names in some of the uberguilds on TM at the moment, time seems to be the ONLY thing some people bring to the table. It sure as hell isn't leadership, good sportsmanship, ethics, loyalty or game knowledge in most cases.
Which then whittles the argument for or against instancing down to one simple choice : HOW do you want to spend your time on EQ.
Am I wrong in this?
-Nah-
Last edited by Nahualli on 02/10/04 - 16:48; edited 1 time in total
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Bait Masterson
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3842
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 16:48 Post subject:
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The key thing about Expansions is, you dont have to buy them to enjoy the game.
I am not buying GoD for a while, so for me no matter how good or bad LDON is, it wont change my game.
It was funny I played AO when the new shadowlands expansion came out and everyone started screaming how it ruined the game and I thought you know you dont have to play the expansion, even if you bought ti, using the content is purely choice only.
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 02/10/04 - 19:59 Post subject:
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| Nahualli wrote: | | Tolanin wrote: | | if all you want is to be handed crap on a silver platter and only invest time in it instancing is for you. |
I don't see how you figure that. If you are in an LDoN group of, say 6 people that requires 100% participation to complete, as opposed to a raid of 40.. how much per capita participation is actually required? To the best of my knowledge the stereotype of the AFK monk or the warrior who hits auto attack and walks off to get a beer did NOT come out of LDoN adventures.
Rating "difficulty" isn't a realistic comparison, but as for your statement that LDoN was free loot ... well that's just silly.
If you want to look at it another way, I'll turn the question to you. You claim that LDoN awards for investing time only. What else is required to be successful in a high level guild? Judging by some of the names in some of the uberguilds on TM at the moment, time seems to be the ONLY thing some people bring to the table. It sure as hell isn't leadership, good sportsmanship, ethics, loyalty or game knowledge in most cases.
Which then whittles the argument for or against instancing down to one simple choice : HOW do you want to spend your time on EQ.
Am I wrong in this?
-Nah- |
oh your not entirely wrong, I dont disagree that the raids in EQ are now about throwing as many retards at them as possible doesnt matter how good you are in a raid really. But honestly the pluses of LDON in my view are the gear system that lets people who dont raid get decent gear and the augment system, The no camp check is a plus to but I think its more a negative than a plus. The fact remains to me that ldon could have been far better had they just done the gear and augment systems and done new dungeons but on the old model ala seb and velks and guk and solb. I do not believe that taking out the social interaction with more people than just your group from exping was a good thing. It is a good thing only if your only goal is to get gear and exp. I think that EQ shoulda been more than that, the seb system was not bad, I for one enjoyed seb a hell of alot more than i enjoyed LDON.
The progression should have been towards fixing the afk warrior not making it easier for him to afk by removing every factor from the game but the group and the mob. For raid content I believe instancing is the way to go, I think removing the problems of 40 morons leapfrogging and gimping cycles would be good for the game, because I think i can say without doubt thats really not fun for anyone. But for group content it was better to have the old system because you had much more interaction and much more interesting things, ldon just made it easier to continue the trend with set groups of people who have no interaction with anyone but themselves. EQ has moved off of mmorpg and into diablo 2 style.
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Desaitar
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 2641
Location: whore island
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Posted: 02/11/04 - 05:31 Post subject:
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so true... good ol days, if theyd make another velks w/o all their new stuff or seb/kc DL or raid zones like PoH PoF tov sleepers or even VP id a lot happier, eq still beats chat room tho, a game while chatting is fun hehe
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Desaitar
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 2641
Location: whore island
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Posted: 02/11/04 - 05:33 Post subject:
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ya kno, if they took a zone like tov, and DIDNT change the geography just mobs hp/dps/ae/loot id be so game to raid that
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Rycrias
Luke Warm
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 269
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted: 02/11/04 - 06:04 Post subject:
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In my opinion, EQ went straight to shit when PoP came out. Its gotten worse ever since. 
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khalysta
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 641
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Posted: 02/11/04 - 06:33 Post subject:
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Instancing is the way to go. The fabled Wow is using an instancing and other upcoming games will use it too. The top of the food chain in eq is so crowded. Could you imagine racing for time if it wasnt instanced. There are 4 time enabled guilds here and god knows how many elemental now so things are pretty cluttered at the top. Instancing helps alleviate the drama which in the long run isnt all that bad.
Edit: actually there will be quite a bit of racing I bet in god. There is a big mob for time level people in natimbi. There are other raid mobs in all the other zones as well. It's the first day though so give people a chance to discover stuff and get in the flow.
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ashwynd
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 1686
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Posted: 02/11/04 - 14:59 Post subject:
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| motherface wrote: | | Desaitar wrote: | | exactly valhal, it is why instancing sux, being in a zone where u knew the people that hunted there often and learned the zone so well as to time spawns was ownage, velks owange |
Is it surprising that the king of all trains liked it better when there were people around for him to train? Wonder if he trains his own LDoN group for nostalgia purposes.
"Those were the days. *snif*" |
If you think he is the king of all trains, you are sadly mistaken. Brael definately holds that title unless you count Arbaal "pulling" in plane of fear. Yakita definately gets the silver medal in this category though.
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IceIsFun
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 781
Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: 02/11/04 - 16:24 Post subject:
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| Tolanin wrote: | | instancing is only fun if you play EQ for the sole purpose of getting loot and lvls, if all you want is to be handed crap on a silver platter and only invest time in it instancing is for you. Maybe someday they will come up with a thing that just gives you an injection and you fall asleep for 2 hours wake up and have your exp and ldon points because the time is the only hard part of it! |
You've obviously never tried a time-level LDoN raid. Or if you have, you haven't come remotely close to winning. Those raids are hard, they do not have 3 hours of slaughter-the-same-mob and there are mechanisms which require everyone on the raid to modify their tactics on the fly.
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Desaitar
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 2641
Location: whore island
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Posted: 02/11/04 - 17:51 Post subject:
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instancing time is one thing, its the same zone, same mobs, instancing like LDoN is my big problem, random mobs in random geographies makes NO sense at all and completely goes against what EQ ever was, a big world... i kinda agree with khal that its good idea for SOME high end game, no racing is no fun tho
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Bait Masterson
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3842
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Posted: 02/11/04 - 18:19 Post subject:
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Pfttt Inno was king of all trains
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