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Manuva
Banned
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2536
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 Posted: 03/14/03 - 13:14 Post subject: Iraq may be planning first strike yay
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81047,00.html
| Quote: | WASHINGTON — Saddam Hussein may be considering pre-emptive strikes on American and British troops, Israeli targets and his own people if he feels war is inevitable, Pentagon officials have told Fox News.
"We have to assume that if he feels he has been backed into a corner, he may believe his only real shot comes from trying something first," one official said Thursday night.
Defense surveillance has revealed movements of Iraqi troops and heavy artillery toward the southern border, from which they could take up positions to shell U.S. troops dug in inside Kuwait, Fox News learned Thursday.
U.S. officials also said they have seen Iraqi surface-to-surface Scud missiles moved into parts of western Iraq that would put them within striking distance of Israel.
The Iraqis may have wired key oil fields in the north and the south of the country with explosives for possible detonation should the coalition launch an attack.
The developments could signal plans for pre-emptive missile attacks on Israel, as well as attacks on U.S. forces and Iraqi civilians.
U.S. officials said any and all such eventualities were built into the main allied battle plan, implying that there were prescribed counter-measures in place should Iraq attack first. Officials would not comment on the details of any pre-emptive scenarios.
The United States has been moving about 10 Navy ships armed with Tomahawk cruise missiles from the eastern Mediterranean to the Red Sea, senior U.S. officials said Thursday. The move indicates weakening U.S. confidence that Turkey will grant overflight rights for U.S. planes and missiles.
From the Red Sea the cruisers, destroyers and submarines would be able to launch their Tomahawks — expected to be fired in the opening hours of a war — over Saudi Arabia to targets in Iraq.
The ships are part of the USS Harry S. Truman and USS Theodore Roosevelt carrier battle groups, which have been operating in the eastern Mediterranean for weeks in anticipation of war against Iraq.
No decision has been made to move the carriers themselves from the Mediterranean, but that could be a next step, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity. Each carrier has about 80 aircraft aboard.
Tomahawks are satellite-guided missiles designed to be used in the opening stages of war to strike high-value, fixed targets such as government buildings in areas where the risk of civilian casualties is relatively high.
The Tomahawks evade radar by skimming land or sea surfaces. Following the Gulf War, they became one of the U.S. weapons of choice to respond to Iraqi breaches of U.N. sanctions.
The issue of Turkish overflight rights for U.S. missiles and planes has been overshadowed by the Bush administration's struggle to win Ankara's approval to base 60,000 or more U.S. troops there to open a northern front against Iraq.
The Turkish parliament failed to pass the U.S. request for basing rights earlier this month. Pentagon officials said Thursday it appeared increasingly unlikely that the Army would position its 4th Infantry Division there as originally planned.
About three dozen cargo ships with the 4th Infantry Division's weaponry, equipment and supplies have been waiting off the Turkish coast for weeks, and the troops are still at their base in Fort Hood, Texas.
During the 1991 Gulf War the Navy positioned carriers and Tomahawk-launching ships in the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf. It now has three carriers in the Gulf — the USS Kitty Hawk, the USS Constellation and the USS Abraham Lincoln. |
Is Saddam gonna get U.N. approval for this?
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Maelstrom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Location: Montréal
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 13:20 Post subject:
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Bet Iraq regret to have destroyed all those missiles.
They could have used them hehehe...
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Luturb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 13:38 Post subject:
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This has to be the ideal scenario for the US if it happened. We get to take out Saddam without going against the UN if he attacks us first.
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Kudil
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 135
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:00 Post subject:
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And it's not like we aren't planning for a first strike...
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Janoth
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Joined: 17 Nov 2002
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:07 Post subject:
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Iraq attacking us and Israel would be an answer to George Bush's prayers.
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Manuva
Banned
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2536
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:07 Post subject:
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Aye, but we need the entire f*****g international community's permission to act in the best interest of our own self defense....lets see if he needs permission to do the same.
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Pankrat
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 603
Location: Land of Paranoia
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:18 Post subject:
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Obviously the whole premise of this article is fallacious. Sadam has insisted time and time again he does not have wmod. How can he attack us with weapons he doesn't have?
Ya, I thought so...
Oh, and obviously the person who wrote this article is a right wing nazi fek, so anything he says is not true. I bet George Bush secretly wrote that article.
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compusmack
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Joined: 15 Oct 2002
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:18 Post subject:
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That will NEVER happen. They will put up zero offense until attacked because it makes the U.S. look like we are full of shit claiming them to be a danger. Political strategy dictates they sit back and make us save face by forcing a war, which makes us look bad if we never find any WoMD after going in.
Only variation would be they do have lots of WoMD that we dont know about. If they do, they will either a. destroy them right as we attack to make us look like we are full of shit. or B. use them as we attack because saddam knows he's done for and he dont care about anyone but himself.
It all depends on what saddam is betting on:
Does he bet we will attack?
Does he bet we will find him and kill/remove him?
Does he bet on sympathy from france & company if the U.S. attacks and finds nothing?
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Maelstrom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Location: Montréal
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:23 Post subject:
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Actually He wouldnt ook bad at attack the US since any other country in the world would have done the same facing such a military power.
You guys remember Nkorea's answer when the US's aircarier got close? :Is the US still get closer we will start doing premtive attacks to face the treat.
China , Russia would do the same and you guys al know it, they wouldnt tolerate such a military near them.
Turkey can ask for a huge militasry support in case of an invasion and get ready yet Saddam would be sick to do the same? c'mon.
he should start firing at the US right away and claim that he wants to protect his country.
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Akronn
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:23 Post subject:
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| compusmack wrote: | | Political strategy dictates they sit back and make us save face by forcing a war, which makes us look bad if we never find any WoMD after going in. |
Sadly, it won't work that way. We'll fabricate evidence of WoMD, show it to the international community, and say 'See!!! We told u LOLZ!!!'
Hell, we're already doing that.
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Maelstrom
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:24 Post subject:
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It only shows how much of an Hypocrite Bush is...he pushes pushes Saddam surround him, treat him all day long and when Saddam will start firing Bush will say : OMG did you people see that??? we were right hes a treat to the world!!!
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Maelstrom
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:28 Post subject:
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How would the US react if the mexicans would all gather near the boarder with weapons claiming that they will invade? Would the US wait for them to do so? I dont think so.
With the current treat that Iraq is facing it would be just normal that they start using power like we would all do if the same would happen to us.
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compusmack
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Joined: 15 Oct 2002
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:30 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: | Actually He wouldnt ook bad at attack the US since any other country in the world would have done the same facing such a military power.
You guys remember Nkorea's answer when the US's aircarier got close? :Is the US still get closer we will start doing premtive attacks to face the treat.
China , Russia would do the same and you guys al know it, they wouldnt tolerate such a military near them.
Turkey can ask for a huge militasry support in case of an invasion and get ready yet Saddam would be sick to do the same? c'mon.
he should start firing at the US right away and claim that he wants to protect his country. |
That is retarded logic.
Think about it this way:
U.S. Military is atleast 100x stronger than Iraq's.
Even with a preemptive attack (assuming conventional) they will only do minor damage to the U.S. attack force. If they do attack, the U.S. gains full right of way to attack and invade Iraq under the grounds of Iraq being dangerous and wrecklessly militant. The support for Iraq would fall away and we would have free reign to do whatever we wanted to them. This is the LAST thing they want. The U.S. could hope for nothing better than a stupid move such as this, it proves our argument perfectly.
Politics is very much like a chess game, you dont just bring out the queen and attack shit. It's about setups and strategy. In this case, if you are under powered and out-gunned your best hope is to make your enemy look bad so others will come to help you.
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Manuva
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:31 Post subject:
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Comp - Why is it so hard to believe that he'd strike pre-emptively? He knows we're coming, he knows we're going to level his army in days, he knows he's going to die. If he thinks opening up first on US forces and Israel is going to give him more of a chance than why would he not do it?
I doubt he's going to be worried about saving face when he knows he's going to be dead in a matter of months.
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compusmack
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:32 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: | | It only shows how much of an Hypocrite Bush is...he pushes pushes Saddam surround him, treat him all day long and when Saddam will start firing Bush will say : OMG did you people see that??? we were right hes a treat to the world!!! |
The same can be said of France and others claiming we want to attack for the oil... when all along they have under-the-table agreements to buy oil against embargo for cheaper prices. They are in it for the oil, they get it cheaper now than if Iraq was able to sell it to anyone.
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compusmack
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:33 Post subject:
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| Manuva wrote: | Comp - Why is it so hard to believe that he'd strike pre-emptively? He knows we're coming, he knows we're going to level his army in days, he knows he's going to die. If he thinks opening up first on US forces and Israel is going to give him more of a chance than why would he not do it?
I doubt he's going to be worried about saving face when he knows he's going to be dead in a matter of months. |
The man may be a tyrant, but he's not a fool. You don't attack someone who is 100% guaranteed to demolish you. He can win by keeping other countries angry with us and making alliances with those countries.
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Maelstrom
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:36 Post subject:
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Compus if you see a force surrounding your home getting ready to burn your house..are you oging to let them get even more ready or go out and do your best?
How could the world blame Iraq for attacking now that the US are ready to burn them all?
Bush stated many time that he could decide to invade without the consent of the UN.
meaning that the UN does not have any control about the US's actions.
Meaning that Iraq faces a treat that could simply destroy their country without any support from the UN and they should still wait..disarms...get rid of all they have to defend themself and prob still get attacked?
Dont like my point of view if you want but you gonna admit that they dont have much choice left.
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The Gossipmonger
Luke Warm
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 193
Location: The Balkans
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:37 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: | | How would the US react if the mexicans would all gather near the boarder with weapons claiming that they will invade? Would the US wait for them to do so? I dont think so. |
Yeah, like that would ever happen you french idiot.
The scenario I see more possible, if Iraq really has sufficient chemical and biological weapons and the means to deploy them, is that Hussein waits until the US attack Iraq, tries to create as many casualties as he can on their forces. When everything is hopeless in a week or two, he'll launch his chemical weapons against Israel. They have warned that they'll retaliate with nuclear weapons in that case. With Sharon in power they probably will. Checkmate, war boils over throughout the middle east and central asia creating a chaos that nobody will be able to take us out of. Saddam wins.
Or in the case he has no such weapons, a few (or many) thousand Iraqis die, a number of US soldiers gets killed, something bad happens to Saddam, another dictator is installed, but called a President, like Mousharaf in Pakistan. The CIA finds "evidence" of weapons of mass destruction, nobody is convinced, OPEC probably collapses, some bloody terrorist attack against the US is performed, Syria, or North Korea, or France are blamed, wash, rinse, repeat.
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Janoth
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:38 Post subject:
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A couple of points. First off, once again, you all need to sit down and shut the f**k up. Even if the evidence was fabricated none of you clowns would know because you are an average citizen. YOU DONT KNOW SHIT.
YOU DONT KNOW SHIT
YOU, POSTER ON REALPOOR, DO NOT KNOW A m***********g THING. Ok is this getting through your heads? I didn't think so. Ignorant f***s.
As for Iraq being justified in a preemtive strike? Your damn right they would be. Unfortunatly most of the world, the UN in paticular, is so f*****g mentally incapable of a coherant thought they would not agree. Thats the point. It's all part of the b******t nonsense most of us refer to "politics". It is the game the UN and most European pansies are trying to play while the grown ups try to take care of serious f*****g problems.
[/u][/i]
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Manuva
Banned
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:39 Post subject:
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| compusmack wrote: | | Manuva wrote: | Comp - Why is it so hard to believe that he'd strike pre-emptively? He knows we're coming, he knows we're going to level his army in days, he knows he's going to die. If he thinks opening up first on US forces and Israel is going to give him more of a chance than why would he not do it?
I doubt he's going to be worried about saving face when he knows he's going to be dead in a matter of months. |
The man may be a tyrant, but he's not a fool. You don't attack someone who is 100% guaranteed to demolish you. He can win by keeping other countries angry with us and making alliances with those countries. |
Hate to break it, but we're 100% gauranteed to demolish him anyways, and he knows this.
If a rhino backs a dog into a corner, the dog is likely to bite before being torn to shit.
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Maelstrom
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:40 Post subject:
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Then all he needs to do is hold on, do what the UN ask him, and get harder support from Russia, Germany, France, China and the whole UN.
In fact if he would do exactly what the UN tells him, he would even have the right to ask for the UN's help to protect Iraq against an invasion.
And the UN would have too or else there would be no need for any country to even stay in the UN.
iraq is currently destroying all their missiles, half of them already and soon they will be defenceless.
This will only show 1 thing to the world...Iraq tried to follow the UN's will only to be destroyed after?
Something is damn wrong here...and if you cant see it...
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Manuva
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:42 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: |
iraq is currently destroying all their missiles, half of them already and soon they will be defenceless.
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I seriously hope you are being sarcastic....
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Maelstrom
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:43 Post subject:
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Janoth you know jack shit too,
Stop calling people idtios cause they dont have your point of view or because they ask questions about the acts of some leaders.
The most intelligents people in our history all cliamed that the world will be much beter when the average person wil lask question instead of following blindly.
The world is slowly starting to do so.
And sorry but if you think that bush's acttions are so pure and legit then you are without a shadow of a doubt a f*****g moron.
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Maelstrom
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:45 Post subject:
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Manuva I talk about their 150 range ones, not about their supposed massive ones.
And even if they lie about the numbers...crap eveyrone lies about their weapons anyway.
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Janoth
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:45 Post subject:
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You are absolutley correct. I know jack shit as well, but at least I don't attempt to act like I do. If someone in a better possition than me to know the facts says something, I will take their word for it unless I am given a good reason not to. The French, Russians, and Germans protecting their Iraqi oil interests isn't a good reason.
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Maelstrom
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Location: Montréal
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:50 Post subject:
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Janoth, who said that Germany, Russia, france tries to protect the oil? The US gouverment.
Who first claimed that the US wanted Iraq's oil? Germany, Russia, france.
Both side are full of shit.
And for an average person to have an opinion is great, cause evn if we cant know all the truth at 100% decents people still can have a very good diea about whats happening and THAT doesnt make the real screwer of this world happy.
Bush right now would be very happy to just have a bunch of stupid Americans that cant think or ask any question cause that way he coulkd do all he wants and s***w everyone with np.
But no..its not the case, the whole world ask questions and that forces him to keep his ass straight.
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Janoth
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:50 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: | Manuva I talk about their 150 range ones, not about their supposed massive ones.
And even if they lie about the numbers...crap eveyrone lies about their weapons anyway. |
GREAT LOGIC. Thats just fine. Eurepeans are such p*****s. They didn't enforce the resolution to keep Germany disarmed after WW2. Now they wanna let Iraq do whatever the f**k they wanna do until he is in a possition to be a real threat. The UN is a f*****g paper tiger. It has no problems passing laws but when it comes to enforcing them it is nowhere to be found.
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Janoth
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:52 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: | Janoth, who said that Germany, Russia, france tries to protect the oil? The US gouverment.
Who first claimed that the US wanted Iraq's oil? Germany, Russia, france.
Both side are full of shit.
And for an average person to have an opinion is great, cause evn if we cant know all the truth at 100% decents people still can have a very good diea about whats happening and THAT doesnt make the real screwer of this world happy.
Bush right now would be very happy to just have a bunch of stupid Americans that cant think or ask any question cause that way he coulkd do all he wants and s***w everyone with np.
But no..its not the case, the whole world ask questions and that forces him to keep his ass straight. |
Ok so let me get this straight. You are denying that France, Germany, and Russia have billions of dollars of oil interests in Iraq. Hurry up and say yes so I can completly prove without a shadow of a doubt that you absolutly positivly have no f*****g clue what you're talking about.
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Maelstrom
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:55 Post subject:
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Janoth who claimed that Iraq had dangerous weapons? The US and ony the US and those they paid.
any real proof of those wepaons had been shown yet to all the UN? No...
If such proof would exist Bush would already have shown them to the UN just to have everyone STFU, and you know it.
he would be soo happy to say : AH!!! look bunch of morons and then gain support.
The oil problem was just a pile of b******t for both side..so is the massive weapons one.
its like before elections..you are got to chose between 2-3 a******s all with their good/bad points and at the end you realize that in fact you get screwed no matter which one you chose.
Funny that no other countries then the US claim that Iraq is a treat except those that the US sopporte dor promised money...and that NO other country see Iraq as a real treat that need sto get invaded as soon as possible.
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Maelstrom
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Posted: 03/14/03 - 14:57 Post subject:
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Are you claiming that the US have zero $$$ to make out of this oil?
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