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Xion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2117
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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 Posted: 03/25/04 - 02:24 Post subject: Interesting topic on intelligent vs unintelligent Presidents
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So today in my organizational behavior and management class, the professor brought up a topic that I found to be rather thought provoking. Apparently there has been some research into whether it's better or worse to have an extremely intelligent President.
The idea was that a very intelligent President thinks too long about possible courses of action, and by the time something is decided upon, it's already too late.
This got me thinking about Clinton vs Bush in regards to Al Qaeda. Clinton is an extremely intelligent man...Rhodes Scholar, etc. His administrations policy after the devastating bombings in Kenya and Tanzania was to deal with Al Qaeda via exhaustive diplomatic efforts that turned out to be fruitless. Sure, they lobbed a few cruise missiles into Afghanistan, but Osama knew they were coming. His administration diddled around until their term expired with nothing to show for their efforts. Time passed them by.
Bush comes into office, 9/11 occurs, and the man, a C student, and one time alcoholic coke head, has troops on the way to Afghanistan in no time at all to kick some ass.
Just something to think about. I thought it was interesting. Comments?
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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 02:27 Post subject:
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supposively thomas jefferson was a terrible public speaker. Almost every 4th of july the radio stations do skits about it.
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Mugaaz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3576
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 02:32 Post subject:
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That's idiotic. That has nothing to do with intelligence. Someone who takes to long can hardly be thought of as intelligent if you are defining it as figuring out the best course of action. If so then Bush is much smarter then Clinton and intelligence wins. There is no benefit to stupidty or thoughtlessness. To even propose so is idiotic and I say your teacher is a nimrod who should buy a dictionary. It's like saying weaker people are betting at lifting weights becuase they figure out ways to make machines and levers to do it for them. The reasoning is hardly sound, actually it's flat out bad.
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The Guy On The Couch
Luke Warm
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 202
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 03:13 Post subject:
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I like this topic.
I said it before, Clinton was a p***y, smart sure, leader no.
But Bush is a leader, not very intelligent? Sure, but a leader.
911 called for a leader, and i am damn proud of how Bush handled the situation.
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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 03:15 Post subject:
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| The Guy On The Couch wrote: | I like this topic.
I said it before, Clinton was a p***y, smart sure, leader no.
But Bush is a leader, not very intelligent? Sure, but a leader.
911 called for a leader, and i am damn proud of how Bush handled the situation. |
it's too bad the only thing he is good at is war.
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Xion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2117
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 03:28 Post subject:
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Mug, the logic is the same as why the C students of the world grow up to manage the A students. They're leaders. They're self confident. They make a decision and see it through to completion.
ANY action is better than NO action..that's the point. If you spend too much time trying to figure out the ABSOLUTE best solution, rather than just making one that you believe to be sound, you will miss the opportune moment to act.
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Minion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 3474
Location: The Ghetto
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 03:56 Post subject:
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Interesting and politics don't mix.
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Mugaaz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3576
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 05:09 Post subject:
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| Xion wrote: | Mug, the logic is the same as why the C students of the world grow up to manage the A students. They're leaders. They're self confident. They make a decision and see it through to completion.
ANY action is better than NO action..that's the point. If you spend too much time trying to figure out the ABSOLUTE best solution, rather than just making one that you believe to be sound, you will miss the opportune moment to act. |
Wrong, the discussion was about intelligence, not leadership. He WAS talking about INT, you know, the stat in EQ? not CHA. Like I said, hit him with a dictionary. If you want to talk about leadership as a more important trait then that's another topic. But even still, Leadership is about decision making, and making the correct ones. I think you're trying to break down the argument to a wrong decision being better then no decision. The truth of that is irrelevant to me, if it were true people just use it as a platform and justification for being morons who don't want to think. If it wasn't true it just proves they are idiots. If you want my opinion on what Bush did or didn't do I'll give you it - I have no f*****g idea. Even if I read all of the news I would still say it, I am hardly f*****g competent to run a country, and my opinion is completely f*****g moot on the matter. If that ever changes I'll let you know.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 06:22 Post subject:
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That argument has many loose ends.
For one: How do you measure intelligence?
I don't think it is solely measured by what school you went to. Absolutely not.
Second: (In)decisiveness is seperate from level of intelligence (even once you found a way to measure that). I don't see how one has anything to do with another. Dumb people can be just as indecisive or decisive as smart people... it's not all about how many options you can discern. Two options can cause as much indecisiveness as 10.
Thirdly: If you want to compare Clinton with Bush, you are comparing them against a completely different background, which makes that comparison, on that ground alone, pretty much invalid. People said the *world* changed after 9/11, that's a big thing, with a completely different response needed.
I think a better discussion would be linking personality types to (in)decisiveness. Furthermore I don't see how more intelligence could ever be a downside to a person. President or no president.
The smarter the better in my eyes.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 07:46 Post subject:
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lol... "The C students grow up to manage the A students." WHY THAT'S A SURE FIRE SCIENTIFIC FACTOID IF EVER THERE WERE ONE, MATEY! AARRGGH! AVAST!
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 08:14 Post subject:
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If Clinton was so smart, tell me why he had **** with that cow?
Stupid f*****g shit to be doing in the White House, wouldn't you say?
and poor Laurence, has nothing better to contribute..
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 08:29 Post subject:
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But like Celestra said, it depends on what you define as intelligence. Maybe personality types (the old INTP thing) is a better way of thinking of it. I think the highly rational, overly analytical type does tend to make a poor leader. A lot of intelligent people can't stand to be wrong; that also causes you to be a poor leader. Waiting till every last bit of data is available makes you a poor leader.
I think the typical good leader is driven by a philosophy, or what you might call strategy. He uses a few rules of thumb, as a way of distilling the essence of the situation down to a few characteristics that are knowable (e.g. we have to get rid of evildoers). You might not like where they lead you, but they're good at doing it.
I have known a few highly intelligent, analytical people that are driven by gut instincts though. They're rational and logical and consistent, but their subconcious does all the calculations for them. I don't know how they do it, but they make great leaders. That's like a one in a million trait though.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 08:32 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: |
I have known a few highly intelligent, analytical people that are driven by gut instincts though. They're rational and logical and consistent, but their subconcious does all the calculations for them. I don't know how they do it, but they make great leaders. That's like a one in a million trait though. |
Is that like going to sleep with a problem on your mind, and waking up with the answer?
I do that 
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 08:41 Post subject:
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| Celestra wrote: | Is that like going to sleep with a problem on your mind, and waking up with the answer?
I do that |
See, you're one in a million 
Once in a great while I'll realize that I know the answer to something: that it's there in my subconcious and although I don't know what it is yet, if I just give it time it will bubble up eventually. Not often enough to be useful though.
Although sometimes I go to sleep with a problem on my mind, and wake up with wood. Oh, no, that's every day 
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 09:14 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: |
Once in a great while I'll realize that I know the answer to something: that it's there in my subconcious and although I don't know what it is yet, if I just give it time it will bubble up eventually. Not often enough to be useful though.
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The thing that gets me is when you know you know something, but you still can't think of it.
The closest sentiment to resemble the irritation of that is just "aaaaaaaaaarrrghhh".
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Although sometimes I go to sleep with a problem on my mind, and wake up with wood. Oh, no, that's every day |
I think I could have seen that coming.
But no. I didn't. 
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Jakanden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 5334
Location: Fuck if I know - I am always lost
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 09:35 Post subject:
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My head hurts as its too early in the morning for this heh.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 09:36 Post subject:
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Just like the guy in your sig!
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Jakanden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 5334
Location: Fuck if I know - I am always lost
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 09:55 Post subject:
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| Celestra wrote: | | Just like the guy in your sig! |
I wish i had "Forgot" to come to work this morning lol.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 12:36 Post subject:
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Clinton debated killing bin Laden 3 times, each time it was called off due to a lack of intelligence. He didn't live in a vacuum.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 12:39 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | | Clinton debated killing bin Laden 3 times, each time it was called off due to a lack of intelligence. He didn't live in a vacuum. |
If Bush called stuff off due to lack of intelligence he'd never get anything done
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Banzai
Guest
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Posted: 03/25/04 - 12:51 Post subject: Re: Interesting topic on intelligent vs unintelligent Presid
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| Xion wrote: | So today in my organizational behavior and management class, the professor brought up a topic that I found to be rather thought provoking. Apparently there has been some research into whether it's better or worse to have an extremely intelligent President.
The idea was that a very intelligent President thinks too long about possible courses of action, and by the time something is decided upon, it's already too late.
This got me thinking about Clinton vs Bush in regards to Al Qaeda. Clinton is an extremely intelligent man...Rhodes Scholar, etc. His administrations policy after the devastating bombings in Kenya and Tanzania was to deal with Al Qaeda via exhaustive diplomatic efforts that turned out to be fruitless. Sure, they lobbed a few cruise missiles into Afghanistan, but Osama knew they were coming. His administration diddled around until their term expired with nothing to show for their efforts. Time passed them by.
Bush comes into office, 9/11 occurs, and the man, a C student, and one time alcoholic coke head, has troops on the way to Afghanistan in no time at all to kick some ass.
Just something to think about. I thought it was interesting. Comments? |
Ignorace = violance and death... this is news?
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