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 Posted: 10/24/04 - 17:39 Post subject: India THRIVING thanks to outsourcing
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These a******s would vote Bush if they could
its so nice that so many posters here love the president that helps India while we domestically stumble
| Quote: | Bangalore Thrives, Chokes on Outsourcing
October 24, 2004 5:05:00 PM ET
By Narayanan Madhavan
BANGALORE, India (Reuters) - When narrow colonial-era streets get jammed with evening traffic in India's technology capital, the radio disc jockey turns agony aunt.
``I want you to vent all your frustrations by screaming as hard as you want to,'' Darius Sunawala tells a rush-hour commuter moaning by phone about potholed roads in Bangalore.
The break-neck growth in jobs and income in this south Indian boomtown has proved a mixed blessing. Traffic is just one problem linked to its dash to relative prosperity, along with drastic changes to lifestyles for those working interminable night shifts and worries about the moral health of all the well-paid youngsters.
Of course, any indication that Bangalore's growth has limits would be welcomed by many workers in Western countries, particularly the United States, where outsourcing has been a hot issue in the presidential campaign ahead of the Nov. 2 election.
But experts say traffic jams will not deter the more than 1,200 companies who have decided to set up shop here, simply because of the huge pool of cheap talent. Plus, telecoms and power facilities matter more to them than roads or culture.
Santosh Martin, associate director at real estate consultants Jones Lang LaSalle, said companies will look to lease 8 million square feet of new office space in Bangalore this year -- implying roughly 80,000 new jobs -- up from nearly 6 million a year ago.
``This is not supply, but demand,'' Martin said.
``Clients have always been complaining about infrastructure, but that has not stopped them from coming.''
India's huge cheap-but-skilled workforce with fluent English has attracted companies from around the world. They have created around 550,000 jobs in software and 280,000 in back-office work in a $12.5 billion industry growing at 30 percent a year.
No less than a third of those workers are in Bangalore. And as a result of all the growth, plush restaurants have popped up beside the potholed roads and property prices have shot up, especially for trendy condominiums.
Steel-and-glass offices and apartments are mushrooming in shiny new suburbs outside the city of 6.5 million once known as ``Pensioner's Paradise.''
CLOGGED STREETS
The sound of impatient commuters honking fills the air and once-sleepy streets are now clogged. Fueled by cheap car loans, Bangalore has added 370,000 vehicles in two years, taking the number to 1.95 million.
A clutch of tech companies have threatened to boycott the annual BangaloreIT.com industry show from Nov 1 to 5 if the authorities fail to act to tackle traffic jams and potholes.
Officials say they are doing their best, pointing to a 5-1/2-mile elevated expressway announced last month to link central Bangalore with its Electronics City suburb and saying they could take further measures if necessary.
All the new jobs have put more money in the pockets of Bangaloreans, even if they struggle to find the time to enjoy it.
Anil Kumar, a 27-year-old Hindu, and Imelda Fernando, his 26-year-old Christian fiancee, are the faces of a new, cosmopolitan India who make a good living in the middle of the night, serving U.S. customers many time zones away.
Both work for TransWorks, a 2,600-employee call center firm, where they regularly do 12-hour shifts that end well after dawn.
FIVE-STAR EATERIES
On days off, they eat at five-star hotels, something their parents, modest government workers, could hardly dream of.
``And we take taxis, which our parents never could,'' Fernando said.
Between them, the couple have had eight promotions in four years and their salaries have grown roughly five-fold.
Imelda started as an agent, but now manages 125 people and earns 33,000 rupees ($719) a month. Kumar, an assistant general manager, earns twice that. While their pay is a third or less of what U.S. counterparts earn, it is more than enough in India.
But for couples on the opposite ends of night shifts, being together is tough, Kumar said. ``Your life can go for a toss.''
And that's not to mention the traffic.
``It takes me 40 minutes to get to work,'' Fernando said. ``Earlier it was 20.''
In a country of 1 billion people, where two-thirds of them depend on agriculture, making big sacrifices for work is common.
Nonetheless, turnover in the outsourcing industry is high, so recruiters flock to find new talent at ``job fairs'' and managers offer staff loans, discount pizzas and cheap accommodation.
Local newspapers speak of a threat to conservative Indian values as young workers increasingly indulge in casual ****, and the papers suggest that eager human resource managers may be encouraging too much staff bonding in an effort to boost morale.
As for the notion that Bangaloreans are stealing jobs, that rarely enters the debate.
``Most companies are outsourcing growth,'' said Kumar, who also speaks proudly about how his employees helped a U.S. client keep business going when hurricanes hammered Florida a few weeks ago.
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Yellow Journalist
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 1973
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Posted: 10/24/04 - 17:52 Post subject:
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Im totally opposed to outsourcing, it only helps the rich get richer. It hurts the american working class.
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quotison
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1594
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Posted: 10/24/04 - 17:59 Post subject:
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I don't see outsourcing as a totally bad thing, I know some economists consider it just as another way of free trade- which is good for the economy as whole (although not for every single person). I think the focus should not be on stopping outsourcing, which is impossible, but rather making sure our workers are educated as possible (and all that other fun stuff) so they have an upper hand.
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ATM Banana
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 8575
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Posted: 10/24/04 - 18:03 Post subject:
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haha, india would thrive off of anything, its not like we're throwing our money at then. we're throwing pennies at them.
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Guest
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Posted: 10/24/04 - 18:24 Post subject:
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| ATM Banana wrote: | | haha, india would thrive off of anything, its not like we're throwing our money at then. we're throwing pennies at them. |
And thats why Bush can say hes lost jobs on his watch, something that hasnt happened since Hoover.
Why pay an American citizen American wages when you can pay Indians slave labor?
And you think big business trickles down that money?
f**k NO, that shit gets pocketed.
CEOS get a fat ass bonus, for everyone else it just translates as a job that an American could have had going to some Indian f**k
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Xion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2117
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: 10/24/04 - 18:49 Post subject:
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There are good arguments both for and against outsourcing. Unfortunately, Jack Crow has never taken an economics class, and has no fundamental understanding of global economics in general. I'd post these arguments, but arguing with someone as ignorant as Jack is an act in futility.
Jack, seriously, please get some formal education in economics before you start ranting and raving about outsourcing, deficit spending, trade deficits, etc. Reading your posts is like watching a third grader try to lecture his teacher on quantum physics.
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Guest
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Posted: 10/24/04 - 19:01 Post subject:
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It is as Ive always told you Xion.
I dont care what arguments are FOR outsourcing.
Bottom line is its a job that could potentially exist in the US and is going to some place like India due to the fact that those fuckholes work for 50 cents an hour.
Suddenly Bush is president and business cant stay in business unless the people are working for sweatshop wages?
Clinton was able to thrive in a time where outsourcing wasnt rampant, Kerry will be able to as well with his employment incentives which WILL work.
Youre biggest fear is that he will get elected and I will be proven right.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 10/24/04 - 23:05 Post subject:
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| Jack Crow wrote: | It is as Ive always told you Xion.
I dont care what arguments are FOR outsourcing.
Bottom line is its a job that could potentially exist in the US and is going to some place like India due to the fact that those fuckholes work for 50 cents an hour.
Suddenly Bush is president and business cant stay in business unless the people are working for sweatshop wages?
Clinton was able to thrive in a time where outsourcing wasnt rampant, Kerry will be able to as well with his employment incentives which WILL work.
Youre biggest fear is that he will get elected and I will be proven right. |
I done know 'dem jobs dun't need bein' gone to 'dem ragheads up in that there faraway place. Dat's all I knowin' and I stick ta it!
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Guest
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Posted: 10/24/04 - 23:09 Post subject:
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correct.
The jobs are going to the ragheads
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khrath
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 08:35 Post subject:
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Kerry is one of the people who voted on behalf of outsourcing, to allow even more of it.
Not Bush.
Just because something sucks doesn't make it Bush's fault just because you don't like him.
| Quote: | | Kerry owns 18 factories in Asia and the Pacific, leases four factories in Europe, four in Asia, and owns factories in Mexico and the Caribbean. |
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 09:39 Post subject:
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| Khrath wrote: | Kerry is one of the people who voted on behalf of outsourcing, to allow even more of it.
Not Bush.
Just because something sucks doesn't make it Bush's fault just because you don't like him.
| Quote: | | Kerry owns 18 factories in Asia and the Pacific, leases four factories in Europe, four in Asia, and owns factories in Mexico and the Caribbean. |
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haha pwned.
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Guest
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 13:08 Post subject:
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| Khrath wrote: | Kerry is one of the people who voted on behalf of outsourcing, to allow even more of it.
Not Bush.
Just because something sucks doesn't make it Bush's fault just because you don't like him.
| Quote: | | Kerry owns 18 factories in Asia and the Pacific, leases four factories in Europe, four in Asia, and owns factories in Mexico and the Caribbean. |
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The Bush administration has stated that it LOVES outsourcing...and that outsourcing is great for America..that is Bushs stance ON THE RECORD.
Kerry wants to move those jobs back to the US by evening the playing field with tax incentives...all your boy will do is exactly more of the same.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 13:12 Post subject:
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He says he wants to, but thats just to get your vote. He can't do fuckall about outsourcing
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compusmack
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 6354
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 13:19 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | He says he wants to, but thats just to get your vote. He can't do fuckall about outsourcing |
Kerry just says what you want to hear, and it comes from the headlines of his morning newspaper.
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Guest
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 13:27 Post subject:
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| compusmack wrote: | | Frax wrote: | | He says he wants to, but thats just to get your vote. He can't do fuckall about outsourcing |
Kerry just says what you want to hear, and it comes from the headlines of his morning newspaper. |
Bush has chosen a tax code that rewards outsourcing.
thats fact.
Under Bushs watch the nation is shipping jobs overseas at record numbers...
thats FACT.
Kerry-Edwards plan will end the tax breaks that encourage companies to ship jobs overseas and use the savings to reward companies that create jobs in America. Under their plan, 99 percent of companies will pay lower taxes – but no company will pay lower taxes just because it creates jobs overseas.
| Quote: | Let me say it plainly: it is wrong to give tax breaks to companies that ship our jobs overseas,” Kerry said. “So we’re going to set a new direction for America. We’re going to close the tax loopholes that reward companies for shipping jobs overseas, and we’re going to reward companies that believe that American workers do the best job in the world.”
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Your boy is a puppet, eager to suckle the c**k of the haves and have mores....or as Bush likes to call it...his "base"
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 13:35 Post subject:
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you are a fool for thinking Kerry will be anything but a Democrat party pawn , just like bush is a republican party pawn.
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Guest
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 13:52 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | you are a fool for thinking Kerry will be anything but a Democrat party pawn , just like bush is a republican party pawn. |
Frax, otherwise known as slope head moron speaks
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Kurel
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1877
Location: Cali
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 14:21 Post subject:
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| Jack Crow wrote: | | Khrath wrote: | Kerry is one of the people who voted on behalf of outsourcing, to allow even more of it.
Not Bush.
Just because something sucks doesn't make it Bush's fault just because you don't like him.
| Quote: | | Kerry owns 18 factories in Asia and the Pacific, leases four factories in Europe, four in Asia, and owns factories in Mexico and the Caribbean. |
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The Bush administration has stated that it LOVES outsourcing...and that outsourcing is great for America..that is Bushs stance ON THE RECORD.
Kerry wants to move those jobs back to the US by evening the playing field with tax incentives...all your boy will do is exactly more of the same. |
What jobs? Menial labor jobs? Let the Indians have those. s****y programing jobs that take little education to do? Let them have those too.
Seriously, if you can't find a job in this country, you're either:
A.) Lazy
B.) Uneducated
OH WOE AS ME, I DROPPED OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL AND CAN'T FIND A JOB!
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 14:48 Post subject:
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| Kurel wrote: | | Jack Crow wrote: | | Khrath wrote: | Kerry is one of the people who voted on behalf of outsourcing, to allow even more of it.
Not Bush.
Just because something sucks doesn't make it Bush's fault just because you don't like him.
| Quote: | | Kerry owns 18 factories in Asia and the Pacific, leases four factories in Europe, four in Asia, and owns factories in Mexico and the Caribbean. |
|
The Bush administration has stated that it LOVES outsourcing...and that outsourcing is great for America..that is Bushs stance ON THE RECORD.
Kerry wants to move those jobs back to the US by evening the playing field with tax incentives...all your boy will do is exactly more of the same. |
What jobs? Menial labor jobs? Let the Indians have those. s****y programing jobs that take little education to do? Let them have those too.
Seriously, if you can't find a job in this country, you're either:
A.) Lazy
B.) Uneducated
OH WOE AS ME, I DROPPED OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL AND CAN'T FIND A JOB! |
I agree with Kurel.
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goatface
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1354
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 15:06 Post subject:
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was a story on tv about how India is now losing jobs to other places
that will do it cheaper 
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 15:27 Post subject:
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Why would someone "want to" make a move which would cost their company money by moving cheap labor back to more expensive, domestic labor? No politician is that patriotic.
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Lillyannya
Luke Warm
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 451
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 00:18 Post subject:
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| Silvermouse wrote: | | Kurel wrote: | | Jack Crow wrote: | | Khrath wrote: | Kerry is one of the people who voted on behalf of outsourcing, to allow even more of it.
Not Bush.
Just because something sucks doesn't make it Bush's fault just because you don't like him.
| Quote: | | Kerry owns 18 factories in Asia and the Pacific, leases four factories in Europe, four in Asia, and owns factories in Mexico and the Caribbean. |
|
The Bush administration has stated that it LOVES outsourcing...and that outsourcing is great for America..that is Bushs stance ON THE RECORD.
Kerry wants to move those jobs back to the US by evening the playing field with tax incentives...all your boy will do is exactly more of the same. |
What jobs? Menial labor jobs? Let the Indians have those. s****y programing jobs that take little education to do? Let them have those too.
Seriously, if you can't find a job in this country, you're either:
A.) Lazy
B.) Uneducated
OH WOE AS ME, I DROPPED OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL AND CAN'T FIND A JOB! |
I agree with Kurel. |
Actually while I was pregnant with my son I went to a trade college basically.. For medical assisting... I graduated near the top of my class with a 3.52 GPA (I was a high school drop out with a GPA of .075 or something).. I think that's pretty good.. I'm not lazy.. When I did find a job I worked my ass off for 10-16 hours a day!...
So there goes your point out the window.. Not all people are lazy and/or uneducated.. Some of them honestly can't find jobs!...
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 02:17 Post subject:
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| goatface wrote: | was a story on tv about how India is now losing jobs to other places
that will do it cheaper |
Welcome to the world of economics and comparative advantage. Ousourcing is a good thing. Most people would see that if they bothered to educate themselves on the topic.
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Guest
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 02:53 Post subject:
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Comparative advantage works out pretty well in trade when theres actually some type of goods to exchange...I hardly think that Dave Ricardo was thinking about sending tech support jobs to third world countries because theyre cheap labor when he coined the term in the 1800s.
This is more "exploitation to save a buck"... think sweatshops =P
However I do understand that you cant stop progress....if they build a robot to do ten mens work for a fraction of the cost, I wouldnt stand on any sopapbox demanding "death to the machines", just to give Americans jobs....thats not realistic.
However, Kerry is proposing offering some nice incentives to re-open some of those jobs back here on American soil...and I like like that...thats a realistic approach to this situation.
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crochunter
Fresh Meat
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Posts: 1
Location: australia
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 03:25 Post subject:
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Boo frikin Hoo, one of the countries that has been exploited by the western world for the last century has woken up to the benefits of relative currency value.
Reminds me of people I met in UK who whine at the influx of Indian immigrants, when their own high standard of living is buillt partly on the legacy of Indian colonisation. "Who gave these ragheads English visas?" they would cry indignantly.
I would reply "You did you fucktard, when you made them part of the commonwealth while raping their resources for this last century"
People like you are more than happy to let India import Coke,McDonalds, Microsoft software etc etc ever and anon.... but heaven forbid they actually Export something.
f**k off you small minded tool.
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Plat4PoP
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 14376
Location: USA
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 03:28 Post subject:
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| Silvermouse wrote: | | Kurel wrote: | | Jack Crow wrote: | | Khrath wrote: | Kerry is one of the people who voted on behalf of outsourcing, to allow even more of it.
Not Bush.
Just because something sucks doesn't make it Bush's fault just because you don't like him.
| Quote: | | Kerry owns 18 factories in Asia and the Pacific, leases four factories in Europe, four in Asia, and owns factories in Mexico and the Caribbean. |
|
The Bush administration has stated that it LOVES outsourcing...and that outsourcing is great for America..that is Bushs stance ON THE RECORD.
Kerry wants to move those jobs back to the US by evening the playing field with tax incentives...all your boy will do is exactly more of the same. |
What jobs? Menial labor jobs? Let the Indians have those. s****y programing jobs that take little education to do? Let them have those too.
Seriously, if you can't find a job in this country, you're either:
A.) Lazy
B.) Uneducated
OH WOE AS ME, I DROPPED OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL AND CAN'T FIND A JOB! |
I agree with Kurel. |
I am not Lazy or Uneducated yet I have lost 4 jobs over the past 3 years to outsourcing.
You can find a job but it pay less than 2/3 or less of what you got a few years ago and thats only if you have kept up with the latest and greatest.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 04:52 Post subject:
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| Jack Crow wrote: | Comparative advantage works out pretty well in trade when theres actually some type of goods to exchange...I hardly think that Dave Ricardo was thinking about sending tech support jobs to third world countries because theyre cheap labor when he coined the term in the 1800s.
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As usual when we're talking about economics, you're wrong. Comparative advantage comes into play whenever ANYTHING of value is traded. It doesn't matter if it's a good or a service.
For example, Company A outsources tech support to India. Company B does not. Company A can hire 4 times as many tech support personnel and offers 24/7 tech support with minimal wait time. Company B offers 9-5 M-F support with a longer wait time. Company A sells more products due to it's superior tech support.
Or let's assume both have the same tech support, Company A can either sell it's products for less or spend more money in marketting and/or research. Either way, Company A is going to come out on top.
This barely scratches the surface btw. There are numerous benefits to American capital flowing into impoverished countries, especially Middle Eastern ones. There are books upon books written on this subject if you cared to do any research.
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Plat4PoP
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 14376
Location: USA
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 06:07 Post subject:
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I think the global economy is the way to go but its going way too fast and with way too many perks. If companies did not get a tax break to send jobs overseas I could live with that. If the government gave tax breaks to those that did NOT outsource I could live with that too. My tax $$ should not goto some greedy corp driven by the stockholders who are already saving a ton by giving our jobs away.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 11:33 Post subject:
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| Plat4PoP wrote: | | I think the global economy is the way to go but its going way too fast and with way too many perks. If companies did not get a tax break to send jobs overseas I could live with that. If the government gave tax breaks to those that did NOT outsource I could live with that too. My tax $$ should not goto some greedy corp driven by the stockholders who are already saving a ton by giving our jobs away. |
True. I don't agree with the way Bush has approached outsourcing but I do agree with his overall stance that it is a good thing.
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Kurel
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1877
Location: Cali
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Posted: 10/27/04 - 11:52 Post subject:
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| Quote: | Actually while I was pregnant with my son I went to a trade college basically.. For medical assisting... I graduated near the top of my class with a 3.52 GPA (I was a high school drop out with a GPA of .075 or something).. I think that's pretty good.. I'm not lazy.. When I did find a job I worked my ass off for 10-16 hours a day!...
So there goes your point out the window.. Not all people are lazy and/or uneducated.. Some of them honestly can't find jobs!... |
No, actually you proved my point.
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