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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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 Posted: 05/30/04 - 22:18 Post subject:
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Damn you guys SUCK everyone knows the f*****g mythology, we all f*****g know the moral of that damn story god damnit STFU about trying to look smart already.
I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT I DIDN'T LIKED THE WAY THEY PLAYED HIM IN THIS VERSION CAN I f*****g LIKE A MOVIE THE WAY I WANT WITHOUT HAVING ALL THE SMARTASS OF THIS BOARD COME AND TRY TO TEACH MY HISTORY?
NO ONE GIVE A f**k ABOUT THAT SO PLEASE P-L-E-A-S-E SHUT UP
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 05/30/04 - 22:25 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: | Damn you guys SUCK everyone knows the f*****g mythology, we all f*****g know the moral of that damn story god damnit STFU about trying to look smart already.
I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT I DIDN'T LIKED THE WAY THEY PLAYED HIM IN THIS VERSION CAN I f*****g LIKE A MOVIE THE WAY I WANT WITHOUT HAVING ALL THE SMARTASS OF THIS BOARD COME AND TRY TO TEACH MY HISTORY?
NO ONE GIVE A f**k ABOUT THAT SO PLEASE P-L-E-A-S-E SHUT UP |
They speak english in Montreal. When will you learn it?
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 00:13 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: | Damn you guys SUCK everyone knows the f*****g mythology, we all f*****g know the moral of that damn story god damnit STFU about trying to look smart already.
I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT I DIDN'T LIKED THE WAY THEY PLAYED HIM IN THIS VERSION CAN I f*****g LIKE A MOVIE THE WAY I WANT WITHOUT HAVING ALL THE SMARTASS OF THIS BOARD COME AND TRY TO TEACH MY HISTORY?
NO ONE GIVE A f**k ABOUT THAT SO PLEASE P-L-E-A-S-E SHUT UP |
Okay...there is no moral to the story so there's no way any of us could know it. Let's get that out of the way.
Let me paraphrase this conversation for you:
Maelstrom: I thought Paris was a p***y.
Me: You misunderstood his character. He was supposed to be pitied.
Maelstrom: In all the other movies I've seen, he wasn't a p***y.
Me: And what does that have to do with this movie?
Maelstrom: $#%@$#%@%@%
See the problem there? I didn't say you couldn't have your opinion. I said he was a character to be pitied. You need to judge the movie on it's own merits and not based on what you saw in some other movie.
As for the rest of it, you really haven't gotten many facts right in this conversation so it's a little tough to believe you are familiar with the The Iliad in the first place. If you are, you should have realized the significance of Achilles' heel. It's a major detail.
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Gary-Coleman
Fresh Meat
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 2
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 00:58 Post subject:
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The moral of Troy is too not believe in Religion. The whole movie mocked it....Ironic in a way due to the biblical references. Troy fell because the King was blinded by Religion and that crazy old advisor. Paris and Hector were the only sane and logical people in the movie. Hector said not to attack the Greeks at night, but his Father did anyway because the old guy said they're protected by Apollo. What happens? He kills Achilles' cousin and eventually loses his life for it. When they found the Trojan horse at the beach, Paris said to burn it down. But blinded by Religion again.....the King decides to bring it inside Troy as a present to the Gods....lol.....than everyone dies because of that. Not to mention, Hector even mentioned why Achilles wasn't struck down for chopping down the God's head...Makes ya think how many fools devote themselves to religion. Are you jewish/christian/etc. because you chose to be? Woke up one day, decided to join a Religion. Or are you jewish/christian/etc. because your Parents are? And that's why you are? Silly fools.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 01:08 Post subject:
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| Gary-Coleman wrote: | | The moral of Troy is too not believe in Religion. The whole movie mocked it....Ironic in a way due to the biblical references. Troy fell because the King was blinded by Religion and that crazy old advisor. Paris and Hector were the only sane and logical people in the movie. Hector said not to attack the Greeks at night, but his Father did anyway because the old guy said they're protected by Apollo. What happens? He kills Achilles' cousin and eventually loses his life for it. When they found the Trojan horse at the beach, Paris said to burn it down. But blinded by Religion again.....the King decides to bring it inside Troy as a present to the Gods....lol.....than everyone dies because of that. Not to mention, Hector even mentioned why Achilles wasn't struck down for chopping down the God's head...Makes ya think how many fools devote themselves to religion. Are you jewish/christian/etc. because you chose to be? Woke up one day, decided to join a Religion. Or are you jewish/christian/etc. because your Parents are? And that's why you are? Silly fools. |
No man is an island. Who told you to be an anti-religious bigot?
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Frostkiss
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 2018
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 06:03 Post subject:
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I actually felt the same way about Paris' character. He was pictured as a love sick p***y, while when I read it, it gave me more the feeling he was driven by that "love". Just my opinion though =/
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Prawn
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 825
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 06:51 Post subject:
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Basicly, the movie did a bad job in attatching the audience to either of the two main characters. The film left a bad taste in my mouth, and that wasn't because I gave an usher head for a free ticket.
In order to get into a story, in general, you have to feel for one of those whom the story revolves around. This just wasn't done.
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khrath
Guest
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 06:57 Post subject:
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i liked it because the chix achilles slept with has fine asses.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 11:46 Post subject:
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| Frostkiss wrote: | | I actually felt the same way about Paris' character. He was pictured as a love sick p***y, while when I read it, it gave me more the feeling he was driven by that "love". Just my opinion though =/ |
To get back to the point I was trying to make before Mael's tangent, I can see why you would think that. I felt that there was nothing exceptional about his character except his naivete. He responded the way most people would in the same situation. He made quite a few decisions without fully realizing the full consequences of his choices. For instance, he challenged Menelaus without fully comprehending what that could mean. I felt he was more of a pitiable character because he is an ordinary man surrounded by extraordinary heroes.
His character is far different in the book. In the book, I was always struck by the fact that he wanted to possess Helen more than love her. Starting with his deal with Aphrodite and moving through his kidnapping of Helen, he routinely acted with only himself in mind. His love of Helen is mentioned very often but he did hold her prisoner for 10 years despite the fact that she wanted to leave.
It's kind of a side issue but did anyone else want Troy to win? I knew the way it ends going in obviously but Troy seems to fit the good guy role better than the Greeks. I'm not sure if that's intentional or if that falls under the lack of character development that Prawn is talking about. When you really get down and think about it, Hector is the closest to a classical hero in the movie.
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Buntz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 3340
Location: Banner Elk, N.C.
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 11:57 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: | | Gary-Coleman wrote: | | The moral of Troy is too not believe in Religion. The whole movie mocked it....Ironic in a way due to the biblical references. Troy fell because the King was blinded by Religion and that crazy old advisor. Paris and Hector were the only sane and logical people in the movie. Hector said not to attack the Greeks at night, but his Father did anyway because the old guy said they're protected by Apollo. What happens? He kills Achilles' cousin and eventually loses his life for it. When they found the Trojan horse at the beach, Paris said to burn it down. But blinded by Religion again.....the King decides to bring it inside Troy as a present to the Gods....lol.....than everyone dies because of that. Not to mention, Hector even mentioned why Achilles wasn't struck down for chopping down the God's head...Makes ya think how many fools devote themselves to religion. Are you jewish/christian/etc. because you chose to be? Woke up one day, decided to join a Religion. Or are you jewish/christian/etc. because your Parents are? And that's why you are? Silly fools. |
No man is an island. Who told you to be an anti-religious bigot? |
people believe and see what they want to man.
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 12:01 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: | | Frostkiss wrote: | | I actually felt the same way about Paris' character. He was pictured as a love sick p***y, while when I read it, it gave me more the feeling he was driven by that "love". Just my opinion though =/ |
To get back to the point I was trying to make before Mael's tangent, I can see why you would think that. I felt that there was nothing exceptional about his character except his naivete. He responded the way most people would in the same situation. He made quite a few decisions without fully realizing the full consequences of his choices. For instance, he challenged Menelaus without fully comprehending what that could mean. I felt he was more of a pitiable character because he is an ordinary man surrounded by extraordinary heroes.
His character is far different in the book. In the book, I was always struck by the fact that he wanted to possess Helen more than love her. Starting with his deal with Aphrodite and moving through his kidnapping of Helen, he routinely acted with only himself in mind. His love of Helen is mentioned very often but he did hold her prisoner for 10 years despite the fact that she wanted to leave.
It's kind of a side issue but did anyone else want Troy to win? I knew the way it ends going in obviously but Troy seems to fit the good guy role better than the Greeks. I'm not sure if that's intentional or if that falls under the lack of character development that Prawn is talking about. When you really get down and think about it, Hector is the closest to a classical hero in the movie. |
In the other version Paris dies, in the other versions Achiles week spot end up being the back of his feet and he die that way. In the movie Paris shot him an arrow back of the feet but 4 or so more in the body so it end up being Achiles fatality it does not represent his week spot because Paris was so nervous that he missed his shot.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 14:10 Post subject:
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| Maelstrom wrote: |
In the other version Paris dies, in the other versions Achiles week spot end up being the back of his feet and he die that way. In the movie Paris shot him an arrow back of the feet but 4 or so more in the body so it end up being Achiles fatality it does not represent his week spot because Paris was so nervous that he missed his shot. |
Do you have a problem following the conversation? Why are you still mentioning other movies when this thread is about Troy?
I never said anything about Achilles dying to the arrow in the heel in Troy. I only mentioned it in response to your statement about a different movie that dying to an arrow in the heel was stupid.
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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 21:15 Post subject:
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I came away from the movie thinking paris is an immature rat, Helen is a stupid w***e, achilles went into battle for selfish reasons and his redemption was too little too late, and Hector was martyred for being the most compassionate and logical thinker present. I think Achilles had other motives that I don't understand or weren't adequately portrayed. I read Homer's work too long ago to remember and I don't care to reread it.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 21:26 Post subject:
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| Khrath wrote: | | i liked it because the chix achilles slept with has fine asses. |
Not that you could tell whose smooth ass it was during the closeups. It may have been Brad Pitt's ass you were drooling over.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 21:28 Post subject:
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| Gary-Coleman wrote: | | The moral of Troy is too not believe in Religion. The whole movie mocked it....Ironic in a way due to the biblical references. Troy fell because the King was blinded by Religion and that crazy old advisor. Paris and Hector were the only sane and logical people in the movie. Hector said not to attack the Greeks at night, but his Father did anyway because the old guy said they're protected by Apollo. What happens? He kills Achilles' cousin and eventually loses his life for it. When they found the Trojan horse at the beach, Paris said to burn it down. But blinded by Religion again.....the King decides to bring it inside Troy as a present to the Gods....lol.....than everyone dies because of that. Not to mention, Hector even mentioned why Achilles wasn't struck down for chopping down the God's head...Makes ya think how many fools devote themselves to religion. Are you jewish/christian/etc. because you chose to be? Woke up one day, decided to join a Religion. Or are you jewish/christian/etc. because your Parents are? And that's why you are? Silly fools. |
Interesting concept. Do you think if I were to go out tonight and start defacing religious icons/sites, that I would be struck down by God? Probably not. Others might think any misfortune I suffered in the future would be part of His vengeance, or if I died of a stroke at 68, or that my punishment would come after death.
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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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Posted: 05/31/04 - 21:34 Post subject:
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| Silvermouse wrote: | | Gary-Coleman wrote: | | The moral of Troy is too not believe in Religion. The whole movie mocked it....Ironic in a way due to the biblical references. Troy fell because the King was blinded by Religion and that crazy old advisor. Paris and Hector were the only sane and logical people in the movie. Hector said not to attack the Greeks at night, but his Father did anyway because the old guy said they're protected by Apollo. What happens? He kills Achilles' cousin and eventually loses his life for it. When they found the Trojan horse at the beach, Paris said to burn it down. But blinded by Religion again.....the King decides to bring it inside Troy as a present to the Gods....lol.....than everyone dies because of that. Not to mention, Hector even mentioned why Achilles wasn't struck down for chopping down the God's head...Makes ya think how many fools devote themselves to religion. Are you jewish/christian/etc. because you chose to be? Woke up one day, decided to join a Religion. Or are you jewish/christian/etc. because your Parents are? And that's why you are? Silly fools. |
Interesting concept. Do you think if I were to go out tonight and start defacing religious icons/sites, that I would be struck down by God? Probably not. Others might think any misfortune I suffered in the future would be part of His vengeance, or if I died of a stroke at 68, or that my punishment would come after death. |
if you think about it the movie really was an assault on religion. Without portraying the gods the movie came across as 2 people fighting over nothingness. One nation driven by greed and spite for a stolen wife, and the other nation retaliating in the name of god. If you look at the story assuming the gods don't exist then the plot has a totally different meaning. The movie is no longer about the gods using human beings as pawns in some kind of board game- it becomes about 2 peoples fighting over foolishness.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 06/01/04 - 04:03 Post subject:
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I think the director was going for a more historical setting than what was found in The Iliad. The director based the movie heavily on the book but the movie deals more with the war in a historical setting. Agamemnon's reasons for attacking Troy are the popular historical reason. Troy controlled the Aegean Sea and Agamemnon wanted it. I have no idea if Helen was even a part of the equation as I've seen no evidence of that outside of Homer's stories.
It's misleading to say it was a war over nothingness. It was a war over land and power. Troy was not fighting in the name of a god, they were fighting to defend themselves from the Greeks.
I'm not going to touch the religion argument since I think all of you are reading too much into it. In a historical setting, you can't very well have gods coming down and throwing lightning bolts all over the place.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 06/01/04 - 04:09 Post subject:
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| lauren000 wrote: | | I came away from the movie thinking paris is an immature rat, Helen is a stupid w***e, achilles went into battle for selfish reasons and his redemption was too little too late, and Hector was martyred for being the most compassionate and logical thinker present. |
Haha Yeah me too.
I liked the movie because it was entertaining. That was all this movie will ever be, entertainment for 2 hours. And that's fine.
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 06/01/04 - 05:51 Post subject: -==-
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I saw this comic and had to laugh.
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xebitikz
Total Newbie
Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Posts: 28
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Posted: 06/01/04 - 13:25 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | In the other version Paris dies, in the other versions Achiles week spot end up being the back of his feet and he die that way. In the movie Paris shot him an arrow back of the feet but 4 or so more in the body so it end up being Achiles fatality it does not represent his week spot because Paris was so nervous that he missed his shot. |
I know I dont post much here, I usually just "troll", but god damn  . I seriously can barely understand that shit.
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Syke
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: 06/01/04 - 13:34 Post subject:
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| Nuldaan wrote: |
I'm not going to touch the religion argument since I think all of you are reading too much into it. In a historical setting, you can't very well have gods coming down and throwing lightning bolts all over the place. |
Well, the movie made a point to show that the people relied on their gods more often than not, to explain why things happened. The reason Achilles didn't give a shit was because he knew he was supposed to die. He laughed at the gods and struck down that statue because he knew it didn't matter.
Even though the gods weren't throwing down lightning every second, every natural occurance was explained or blamed on the gods in one way or another.
When Hector saw that Achilles struck down the statue, he thought the gods must not exist since they did nothing in response, and he used that fact to drive his decision to burn down the trojan horse later on in the movie. They didn't listen to him, and instead went with what they felt the gods wanted them to do, and ended up getting sacked.
That event in itself was the proof that those gods were meaningless, and that was a major underlying point in the movie, but not one that necessarily has any merit. I mean, how meaningful can a movie with Brad Pitt and naked chicks be...?
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Slott
Luke Warm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 132
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Posted: 06/01/04 - 14:25 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | In the other version Paris dies, in the other versions Achiles week spot end up being the back of his feet and he die that way. In the movie Paris shot him an arrow back of the feet but 4 or so more in the body so it end up being Achiles fatality it does not represent his week spot because Paris was so nervous that he missed his shot. |
Did you not notice that none of the arrows to Achille's chest made him bleed? Or did you miss the fact that he pulled some of them out of his chest with no sign of wounded damage?
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FealornTM
Luke Warm
Joined: 15 Nov 2002
Posts: 375
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Posted: 06/01/04 - 16:39 Post subject:
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Gods don't exist you say?
The filming of the final battle between Eric Bana and Brad Pitt had do be delayed by 6-8 weeks due to Brad Pitt suffering an injury to his achilles tendon.
(not a joke)
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 06/01/04 - 17:27 Post subject:
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| FealornTM wrote: | Gods don't exist you say?
The filming of the final battle between Eric Bana and Brad Pitt had do be delayed by 6-8 weeks due to Brad Pitt suffering an injury to his achilles tendon.
(not a joke) |
That is clear proof of divine activities. The gods, in their fury of this movie mockery, rained down an injury to Brad Pitt's achilles tendon and delayed filming for 6-8 weeks. Mortals across the world cringed in fear.
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Fanelien
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 2187
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Posted: 06/02/04 - 00:17 Post subject:
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Troy was an entertaining movie, but FAR from accurate.
Achilles is portrayed as an arse plain and simple, while in the Illiad, he is he traditional "hero", the start of the fight scene between he and Hector is a perfect example of this. Hector asks for a pact involving burial rites, Achilles refuses, if you read the Poem you will find that Achilles, while he did not agree to this, still respected Priam and only dragged Hector's body around Troy(only to show off his victory) three times, Hector's body was not dragged to the Greek encampent at all. Also missing is Achilles' armour collection, the armour of all the warriors he's killed, which was traditional Hero behaviour.
Another thing that isn't noted is the Greek god's involvment in the destruction of Troy, in the Illiad, they have a more direct role, smashing down the walls of Troy as the city burns, Apollo, Troy's patron has no role.
One of the things that p****d me off the most was the lack of Pyrrhus, if included, imagine Achilles as he is now, with no honour at all, and you have Pyrrhus.
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Mugaaz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3576
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Posted: 06/02/04 - 00:22 Post subject:
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Man why do people whine that it's different, so was lord of the rings. Knowing EXACTLY what's going to happen is boring. I liked the modren take on it with no greek god involvement. It made it seem plausible that it all happened and that the story was simply woven around it. Even when they find Achilles the only noticeable damage to him right away is 1 puny little arrow in his ankle. The soldiers then probably wove the myth around him to justify his death. Things like achilles' h**o lover and etc would of simply made the movie terrible. I wouldn't pay to see Brad Pitt spelunking his psuedo-cousin, I'm not even sure if Nah could get aroused by that. For the modern times this is a wonderful retelling of the story, it's something akin to the Romeo and Juliet movie that takes place in present day, except they only used modern themes instead of the full boat.
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